Buffy issue 39 Review This is the End....Same Magic Trick, Different Hat

[shadowkat]

[This is unedited. I got interrupted in the midst of writing it, by a phone call, so as a result am posting it without editing it. Which means numerous typos and mistakes. ETA:Am back to edit during my lunch break or attempt to. Frak it. Am somewhat sick, slept horribly due to coughing, and am shaky today. And these frakking comics aren't worth any more of my energy. Am attempting to edit again, because it is bugging me and I think I need to clarify a few things. If you can edit your comments repeatedly, I can edit my post.]


Am on the fence as to how to write this review. I keep deleting and editing. I have read most of the meta and reviews on the comics...both positive and negative. The positive reviews, oddly, did not make me like the comics or endear me to them, if anything it made me despise them all the more. Which is odd, I know. You'd think it would be the opposite. As a result, I have not responded to most of the reviews and decided to write my thoughts here instead. If you are a lover of the comics and wish to read a positive review? Let me know, and I'll direct you to them. Please refrain for the sake of both our blood-pressures from fighting with me on the comics. ETA: And also no bashing, criticism, analysis and/or belittling of fellow posters!!! Respect your fellow posters above everything else!

Buffy Issue 39 - Last Gleaming Part 4

This issue is written by Whedon and Allie, although from what I've read in interviews it appears to be 90% Allie and 10% Whedon (which explains alot). Whedon basically acted as editor, and Allie wrote it with some guidance. The reason for this is rather simple - Whedon got a lucrative directing gig and took off. Word to the wise - this is what happens when you hire a hot Hollywood cult writer/director with a short attention span to handle a 40 issue comic book series, and don't pay him as much money as he'd get directing a film. Also, I don't know about anyone else, but if the writer/creator doesn't care about his story, why do we? I say this, after figuring out that I spent $116 on the Buffy comics. ($2.99 per comic x 39 issues). Granted it could be worse.



ETA: What follows is my rather feeble attempt to make sense of what is happening in this issue. What is interesting to me at least - is how difficult it is for me to make sense of what is happening. That's saying a lot - since, I usually can figure out plots that leave most people shaking their heads in confusion. But this thing...eludes even me. Kudos. So here's my attempt for what it's worth:

Part 4 starts pretty much where Part 3 left off. Like the Harry Potter film did...except the Harry Potter film made sense.

Willow is in mid-chant with the Master, who may think she's empowering him and his connection to the seed, when in reality she's just empowering herself. As an aside, who chained up the Master? I'm pretty sure he did not have chains last issue? I should go back and check. Maybe later.

Buffy and Angel meanwhile are fighting again, but Buffy acts as if this is a first.

Buffy: It's different than before. Now we can hurt each other. (I'm guessing you mean physically? And by before - issue 34, when you fought him prior to the boinking?)

Spike: Finally chosen a side, have you. Scared-Hair? (Uhm what? Scared-Hair??? Okay. That's new. I'm guessing he means between Buffy and Twilight? Wasn't Angel always on Twilight's side, well outside of that brief respite where he was acting like he was on Buffy's?? The whole Angel-Twangel-Angel-Twangel-Angel arc just does not work for me. It's like the writer can't quite decide how to write the character. Should he be evil? Should he be misguided? Should he have agency? Should he just be a puppet of whatever would-be god with a prophecy? Should he be a character? Or an allegory? Hard to say. He's either culpable for his actions or he isn't. )

Now Angel decides to kill Spike, which he takes up to the sky to burn. So, I'm guessing Angel's not a vampire anymore? Did he shanshu? Is this new universe's power protecting him from the sun? Did he get some witch to bespell a ring (whoops wrong series, sorry).

Angel pulls Spike into the bright sun...and Spike doesn't burst into flame, he merely smolders a bit. Which begs the question - when did Spike become capable of handling exposure to direct sunlight without instantly bursting into flame after ten minutes? This is a bit convenient, don't you think?

Buffy: Oh, God. I liked it better when you were kissing. (Apparently Buffy has confused her nightmares with reality, can't say I blame her, I can't tell the difference either anymore.)

Spike: I'm fairly certain I never mentioned...(and Spangel fans everywhere rejoice for having their slash fantasies made well...canon in the comic books? [ETA: Actually they don't rejoice, because Angel just tried to burn Spike to a crisp for no apparent reason - it's not like Spike was in his way or even had a chance of defeating him. Also it was definitely Angel who did it, because why would the baby universe care? But I'm sure someone out there will figure out a reason.] This poses a problem, in order to rejoice about this, you have to accept the comics as canon and the other ideas posed in them as well. I guess you can pick and choose, but I'm certain someone will call you on it.)

Buffy: I can't process it. [Process what exactly? I mean I'm having troubled processing the plot and I'm reading the thing, can only imagine what it would be like to be a character in it. Oh you mean why Angel has become a baddie again? Uh, honey, when wasn't he one? He killed half your army. Where are your priorities?]

Note - all Buffy does here is break Spike and Angel apart. Spike is still smoldering in the sunlight, not bursting into flame (which may explain why she doesn't expend much additional effort to save his ass...because hey, it's taking a while). A long while - we watch smoldering Spike float towards his ship and get picked up by it or Buffy does. Maybe she pushed him to the ship? Or he just generally fell in that direction? Or the ship flew up to catch him? I honestly can't tell. Could be any of the above. Like everything else in these comics.

Buffy: I've seen Angelus. And Angel's attempt to be Twilight. This is Neither. This is some cosmic vengeance. [No, this is what comes of constantly giving Angel chances to redeem himself. If you just killed him when you had the chance, you wouldn't be in this situation. But noo...we must continue to give the shit-head chances to redeem himself. ETA: Note - I did not state cosmic justice, I merely disagreed with Buffy's assessment of why this is happening. If she killed Angel instead of frakking him, we would not be in this situation.] That I had coming. [yeah, for not killing Angel. If you killed Angel, than life would be good. I've read metas that said she had it coming for empowering the slayers - and I find myself thinking where do you see that in the text? Or that it's for all her sins? Or something like that. Personally - I think it's rather simple. Buffy didn't kill Angel, she boinked him instead. If she killed him when she had the chance to do so, everyone would be okay. ETA: Plotwise? I've been told it's cosmic vengeance on the part of what exactly, a baby universe? So a baby universe is enacting vengeance on the human who inadvertently created it and left it and didn't give it the seed? Okaaay.]

This bit, would have made perfect sense in S3 or S2, it doesn't now. She acts like the universe is paying her back for loving Angel [ETA - or not joining up with Angel and raising baby universe - uhm how exactly does one raise a baby universe?? And what is one supposed to do, kill all one's friends and one's home world to what exactly...raise the baby universe?? Because baby universe will exist regardless. Sorry, I've admittedly been ignoring this explanation because it makes no sense. The other explanation makes more sense than this one does and that's saying a lot.]

Here's my problem - I don't understand how Buffy can possibly care about or love "comics" Angel. I'm told she does. I'm told Angel isn't responsible because he was following some convoluted and fairly far-fetched prophecy about time-lines evaporating or being killed off. But I don't buy it. I don't see it. There's nothing textually that supports this except that the writer willy-nilly threw it out there because it fit thematically? The writer didn't build up to it. For 30 issues, we're told that Buffy is falling in love with Xander, more to the point we're shown why. Prior to those 30 issues, we see Buffy fall in love with Spike, and also shown why. We're also told that Twilight/Twangel has orchestrated the torture and deaths of slayers and civilians. [ETA: Note - orchestrated is not the same as personally doing it. Example - Hitler orchestrated the deaths of the Jews in Nazi Germany, by ordering that death camps be set up and giving his minions subordinates full power to do whatever they wanted to the Jews as long as it was nasty. He didn't personally torture them, he ordered it and made it possible for them to be tortured.] Not only told this, shown it. Then, voila, we are told this isn't real? That Angel never did it? And the person who tells us is who exactly? Angel?? Right, and he's been shown to be a reliable source of information. The bearer of truth and wisdom. I'm sorry, no.

Details are important. You "Show" not "Tell". Particularly when you are writing fantasy or sci-fi, the audience/reader is already suspending disbelief, there's a limit.

I suppose you could argue that this works on a thematic level...but if the plot doesn't make sense, how is the reader supposed to know what the theme is or care? I've seen multiple interpretations on theme. And all can be connected to what is in the text. [ETA - also seen multiple interpretations on the plot - actually no one appears to agree on what the plot is regarding this thing. People are fighting as I speak on what actually happened in this issue. That if nothing else should tell you how badly this is written. Plot is important - it provides the reader with a path through the story or road as it were.]

Spike: Ah, Christ, it's finally happening...Angel gets the girl. [Apparently Spike took Buffy pushing him to his apparent death rather personally? Dude, you have no way of knowing what her intentions were - it's totally possible that she saw your ship and pushed you in its general direction before re-engaging with Angel. Then again, maybe not considering she thinks it's cosmic vengeance against her that she can't have her super-powered Angel in love with her and fighting by her side as she fantasized when she was 17, and apparently never got over. In which case? Spike, if I were you, I'd go fly my ship elsewhere, maybe hook with Beck or Tost or someone else. This gal ain't worth the trouble.]

After a brief interlude with Xander realizing all is lost. We go back to Giles, or rather flashback on Giles.

Giles: This crisis has led to many unlikely alliances, Buffy... I don't know that the Master is any worse than Dracula..[I'm guessing it's no coincidence that while we see this flashback, Buffy is fighting Angel. But is the Buffy/Angel alliance meant to be unlikely? Or is this meant to be ironic?
The whole Buffy/Angel bit doesn't work for me - as I stated above. Because from the tv series it was clear both characters had moved on. It's the writer, Joss Whedon, who didn't, perhaps? (I don't care about the fan faction who didn't they aren't writing the tale so are irrelevant to the purposes of this post, this post is not about fans). Or the marketing people? I'm not sure. I do recall Whedon stating that he felt he needed to leave Buffy behind now, "there's only so many times I can play in this verse, without feeling like I'm a one-trick pony. " And the Angel/Buffy story feels like a one-trick pony. He did this tale better in S2, with the same themes and same metaphors, except it made sense. Here it doesn't work. Actually comparing S2 Buffy to S8 is a good way to see what works in a story and what doesn't. How to build a story, and how not to.]

Giles shows up leading the pack of demons. [I've read reviews in which people thought this was Andrew, but no it's definitely Giles. This is a problem with the art - if you can't tell characters apart, it's very hard to follow the thread of the story. I figured it out contextually, ie, we have Giles voice over...during it.]

Giles: A demon already attached to this world doesn't want this apocaplyspe any more than you or I."
[Not unless he's Angel. The voice-over is meant to explain why Giles shows up leading a pack of demons into battle.]

Slayers get butchered during this war. More people to add to the pile of bodies that Angel is directly or indirectly responsible for killing. Angel's been either directly or indirectly responsible for killing more people and causing more mayhem in the comics, than the last ten Buffyverse villains combined. Kudos.

Willow: Master, pfft. You're the Master of nothing. [This is stated parrallel to Giles. Willow is being paralleled to Giles here. Which is fitting.] You're the extra-light fluffy coating around the more substantial center of nothing...you aren't really connected to the seed. This seed is soul and life. And it's amazing. [Okay, the seed appears to be many things. It's creativity. It's magic. It's a soul. It's life itself. It's the link between dimensions. It's in other words, a convenient plot device for the characters to fight over.]

Master: So, uhm, the chains? Hello? [If I'm nothing, can you at least let me go so I can help you fight, you stupid witch?]

Giles (not Andrew) saves a slayer. Before Willow pops up and tells the alien creeps to bugger off because they attacked mother earth, not just the things that crawl on her. She's in the mouth of some enormous demon. That's when we pull back and get to learn more than we want to know about what is going on in Scott Allie, Joss Whedon, and George Jeanty's id. Yes, the big demon that Willow is fighting looks like a vagina with teeth. (I'm wondering if they got this idea from George Lucas, whose worm monster in Empire Strikes Back looked like a giant dick with teeth? Guess I should give them points for not going with the phallic imagery. No wait - the giant root being slamned into one of the vaginas to pierce and kill it - was phallic imagery. What's this supposed to signify? That the dick is mightier than the pussy? Give me a break. What reminds me of is those male vagina jokes that I collected way back in the 1980s then analyzed - depicting the male fear of female genitalia and female power or the mother goddess - devourer and giver of life. Get it? Mouth births life and takes it away!]

Meanwhile, Giles realizes he has to get the scythe and help Buffy. Faith gives it to him. That actually does make sense - they did a good job building up that relationship.

[I'm going to skip over the Warren/Amy interlude - it really doesn't add anything to the plot or theme. It's just there for anyone who is mildly curious about what happened to them. Apparently they think we care what happens to Warren and Amy over say people like Satsu, OZ, Riley, or Andrew.]

Oh, just found out what happened to Andrew - he got punched by a demon while helping Kennedy. Never mind.

Xander is busy watching Buffy duke it out with Angel.

Angel: You created a world. You can't run away from it. [Why not? You shat on the one you are in. Oh, wait this is supposed to be the new universe talking? And if so, Buffy didn't intentionally create this world - she was seduced and tricked into doing so by Angel. Besides how was she supposed to know frakking Angel to space and beyond would create a new universe? I mean what are the odds? Buffy had no idea that Angel is one fertile SOB, he's supposed to be a vampire after all - cold dead seed and all that. Apparently Wes completely misinterpreted the whole shanshu prophecy, who knew?]

Angel: You were chosen Buffy.[ Right, to kill vampires. Not to create universes. Although, I get the theme...geeze. It's the whole bit about protagonist privilege. You're chosen, so you can kill whoever you want, because hey, you are the protagonist and chosen one, the rules don't apply to you. You also get to be redeemed or have unlimited chances at redemption, never stay dead, and have all crimes excused.]

Master: That's original. (I'm guessing sarcasm.)
Angel: Die now. (damn, and just when I was starting to like the Master. But hey, Angel finally killed his vampire daddy. OR Twilight did. I'm not sure which. ETA: And yes, I know this is a metaphor about getting rid of Daddy or the mentor, because in the Heroe's Journey, he can only become his true self after Daddy dies. I disagree with this metaphor by the way, but then I was never a fan of Freud.)

Giles has shown up with the scythe and against Xander's advice decides to walk into the fray. Now, it's clear from these panels that Giles didn't intend to destroy the "Seed" with the Scythe, he intended to destroy Angel with the Scythe.. [Does he succeed? Of course not. We should be so lucky.] [ETA: Looked at the panels again, turns out that was just wishful thinking on my part. Giles was actually after that pesky seed all along. Which makes sense, after all the pesky seed is causing the chaos. Destroy it - and the chaos ends. Where's the problem? Magic goes too? From Giles pov that's hardly an issue, he's never been much of a fan of magic, well not since his Ripper days at any rate.]

Angel:Buffy you abandoned me - for this?!! [Who what?? Oh wait, it's Twilight talking. Got it. And no, she didn't abandon you for Giles you ninny, she abandoned you for a billion people and her closest friends - or at least one would hope. ]

Angel or Twangel snaps Giles's neck in a similar manner to Jenny Calendar's. [Don't worry Angel fans, it's not really Angel, it's Twangel or Twilight or the new universe that did it. This isn't Angel's fault at all. He's completely blameless and deserves our sympathy and tears. Sigh. ]

Angel: When they're all gone, you'll understand. [It will just be you, me, and the new universe baby...come on. What's not to like? No worries about killing off timelines because there won't be any. ]

Buffy is shell-shocked. (I've no idea why. How dumb is she? Angel's been wandering about killing people for months...as Twilight, granted he told he didn't do it and for reasons I don't understand Buffy and half the fandom believed him. Now he's enabling the deaths of countless people. Oh wait, they weren't Giles! Giles is different. She actually cares about Giles. Now Spike being almost consumed and killed, no big. Or slayers melted? Nah. Or tortured and killed? No, he justified that as being the lesser of two evils -- it would have happened anyway Buffy. And it didn't matter that Angel stalked and killed Jenny, because she lied to Buffy. ]

Buffy slaps Angel across the room and picks up the Scythe in a grief-stricken rage...

[Don't worry, she's not going to kill Angel, even though that would be the logical choice, considering. No, she decides to destroy the Seed - which for some reason or other she equates with all the pain and suffering she's feeling at the moment. [And was Giles target.] That's the explanation- I'm going with, it was Giles' target. I'm not entirely sure why she equates the Seed with pain and suffering...that's never really clarified. All Willow told her was to protect it at all costs, while Spike said it was the soul or source of magic. So, does she blame magic for her pain? ]

This results in...everyone being blown back by a major shockwave, which appears to make Angel shrink two inches (apparently his height was associated with the seed?). Sucks the vagina demons (young vagina and old wrinkled vagina) into a hell portal. Yes, we have a comic that was originally intended to be marketed towards women with vagina demons with teeth. Willow falls to the ground and has apparently lost her connection to the earth mother, and the source of magic in her universe - as well as her powers, she looks a bit shell-shocked. Warren dissolves into a pile of blood and bones. (Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. And thank you for that at least. With any luck that will be the last we see of him.] Everyone else is a bit bewildered. Not quite sure what happened.

Flying/Green Glowy/Lion! walks its kingdom alone. (I got a little confused here - because we have dialogue in places it does not belong. But I worked it out. The "Where did you Go" in the glowy Lion panel - is Willow wanting to know what happened to Aliwuyn. The "You're Majesty" is directed towards Spike. ]

From Spike's perspective everything went well, and he darts off to fight the vagina demon that Willow couldn't defeat. (Get it? Spike goes to defeat the floating vagina with teeth! It's sex joke people. Albeit a really bad and tasteless one, but really - it shouldn't be surprising, they've been telling sex jokes since The Long Way Home. This one is a bit offensive - because they destroyed connection to the earth mother, and now, it takes a vampire in his ball-shaped ship, to defeat a floating vagina demon. Man defeats the mother goddess, all is right with the world.] Willow is wailing in the background about being lost or having lost, possibly both.

We're told this is the end. [No. There's apparently a Season 9 on the horizon. But I understand the wishful thinking.] Buffy's lying defeated as foreshadowed two years ago, at least I think it was two years ago, hard to remember. And Xander brushes off Angel to go to her, and Giles, lying nearby, the Scythe broken in two.

Here's where the whole bit about the theme of betrayal comes into play. Apparently in the issue where Willow and Buffy travel through a series of images from their collective pasts and futures, there's a scene where Buffy is writhing in pain. When she asks what happened to me here? The demon states, someone betrayed you, the most close and unexpected.

The only candidate that makes sense is Angel or Buffy. But...when you think about that, which I did, it's well a bit offensive. For one thing - Buffy would have to be a complete idiot not to expect Angel to betray her - after all that's all he does. And if Buffy betrayed herself - and her calling, by choosing Angel, by choosing to destroy the Seed instead of destroying Angel...then what message is that exactly?

The view that this is all about leaving childhood illusions behind is fine and well. If you are busy watching S2 Buffy and linking this as taking place immediately after that season or in S3. But, if the last season you watched was Season 7 and you vividly remember the characters getting past their illusions and moving into a sunlit tomorrow - this feels as if the writer has decided to conveniently forget four to five seasons of character growth. The other problem I have with this theme, which was beautifully laid out in moscow-watcher and 2maggie2's essays, is that it was done already and a lot better in Season 2. I don't know, I feel a bit like I'm watching a magician get up on the stage and tell me he's going to do a new trick, I'll really like this new trick, it's different from anything else...and voila, it's just the bunny in the hat again, except this time the hat is a cap, and the bunny is actually a weasel, but same trick more or less. Makes me wonder if the writer has run out of ideas?

Apparently there's going to be a Season 9? With an issue focusing on Angel's redeemption?? I wish..I cared one way or the other. In regards to Angel's redeemption? I don't think the question is if he can be redeemed or if he is redeemable, so much as if he deserves to be or even should be (which I've already to some extent explored above)? Or better yet, do we care if he is or not? OR even want this Angel to be? I don't know about anyone else, but in order to read or watch a redemption tale, I have to be interested in the character it regards, I have to care on some level. I have to root for them. I don't feel that way in regards to Comics Angel. Comics Angel isn't interesting at all. I don't like or care about this character. I can't root for him. The writer has done little to make me care or like him in. IF anything the writer has worked over time to make me despise him. This is in marked contrast to the tv series - where I was fascinated by Angel, curious about him, and cared a great deal. Or I wouldn't have bothered to watch it. Here, I don't feel that way. Also, going back to that magician's hat trick? This feels like more of the same. We are doing the same tale again. It's the same trick. To quote DarkWillow...Bored now.

What about the Buffyverse? From what I remember of the whole seed bit, if it was destroyed, Buffy and Faith should retain their powers. Vampires would still exist, which means yes, there will be more of them - because vampires create new vampires. What would disappear is well everything else. No new slayers would be called. Magic, demons, gods...the things that made the Buffyverse interesting and less well like a vampire gothic novel. This from what I've read in this issue, appears to be what happened. Or Angel and Spike would be dust. They've basically simplified the verse, because it got too unweildly to manage. So no, it won't be Buffy the Emo College Drop-out. It will still be Buffy the Emo Vampire Slayer. Except for one key thing...I don't like or care about this Buffy, which is a shame, because as you well know, I used to.

I wish I could say that I cared that Giles died. But I didn't. Nor am I surprised he did. I wish they killed off Xander or Dawn - because that would have made more sense in regards to Buffy being devasted at the end and also more interesting from a story perspective. Giles felt peripherial for so long now, that it was hard to care about him. I felt more about Ethan Raine's passing. [ETA: I understand that they killed off Giles purely for metaphorical and thematic reasons...but I did not care and the theme is, I'm sorry, not that interesting or innovative. ie. Same hat trick, new hat.]

The Long Journey Home was better written and far more enjoyable, but then Whedon cared at that point, he was still invested in this story. He's not any more. And for those who are eagerly awaiting Season 9, I got news for you, Whedon's not writing or overseeing it - not according to the interviews I've read (and please don't ask for links - I can't remember where I read it, I'm not a human encyclopedia). He'll be peripherially involved if that. I get the impression from Whedon that he desperately needs to move on from this story. Writers of popular tales risk being identified with only that tale, type-cast much like actors, so that this is all their fans will let them write. That's what happened with the Star Trek creators. And to a degree with George Lucas and Star Wars. I can identify, I feel the same way about Buffy...at times, it feels as if the only posts my internet readership will respond favorably to are posts on Buffy. I get the most responses to those posts. And I find that depressing. Because my interest in Buffy is waning...and has been for quite some time now.

There comes a time to say goodbye to childish things, and old obsessions...or so I'm told and according to numerous meta this is one of the many themes of these comics. Which means it's past time for me to let go of my fannish love for Buffy and all things Whedon. To let it fade...and move on to other things.

The other theme of the series...is the religious or rather anti-religious one, which works in tandem with the one I mentioned above. This one bothers me a bit. Because it reminds me too much of a billboard war in NYC and NJ. On the NJ side of the Lincoln Tunnel the Athesist's posted a sign that directed ill will towards those who believe in the holiday, while on the NYC side of the Lincoln Tunnel, the Catholics posted a sign that directed ill will towards those who do not believe in the holiday. And I thought...to myself...who is worse here? I think they are both equally guilty of intolerance for the beliefs of others. The comic feels a bit like that...ill will. It's a depressing commentary on heroine's journey that I loved from a writer who has clearly run out of tricks and feels burdened by the very story that once provided him with so much applause and fame. I don't hate the writer, I actually feel for him. But at the same time, being a fan of the story, I'm disappointed. I wanted a new trick, I wanted to see the characters evolve and change and grow and become something new. And here, I get the same hat trick, just with a different hat and a different bunny.

Perhaps it's the medium? Alan Moore was actually able to pull off what Whedon clearly tried to do.
But Alan Moore wrote the whole things himself and is a stickler for detail. Also, unlike Whedon, Moore is first and foremost a comic book writer. He rarely writes for anything else. So he wasn't distracted from Promethea or The Watchmen or V for Vendetta by a directing gig or a tv series.
He devoted himself to that comic book, oversaw everything, and stuck with the same artist and editor throughout. If you read Moore and compare him to Whedon, you can see the differences, there are no inconsistencies in Moore's plot. His character's are intricately built. There's stories within stories. And each panel counts. Whedon on the other hand, was never really that invested in the comics. He did it for a lark - as he stated. And over time it became an unwieldly albatross that he would like to get rid of. What was once interesting, now is a chore, and you can tell. There's a saying, food made with ill will, will taste horrible, while food made with love and good cheer will be amazing. These comics may have started as a work of love and enjoyment, but as time wore on, they became a chore, something the writer resented and no longer liked. And as a result...the stopped being enjoyable or making much sense.

Comments

[midnightsjane.livejournal.com]

Makes me really glad I gave up on the comics after a couple of issues.
My Buffy has nothing to do with these comics. I ignore them completely.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Wish I'd done that.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I've read metas that said she had it coming for empowering the slayers - and I find myself thinking where do you see that in the text?

I believe Twangel said it at some point in the last four years. Now, whether anyone should listen to him is a whole other question.

Nice review. I agree with almost all of it.

[rahirah]

The problem I have is that Twangel never gets contradicted in the text. So we are left with the message that this really is all Buffy's fault for empowering the Slayers. If she hadn't done that, Twangel would never have existed.

Empowering women destroys the world. Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Joss Whedon.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I believe Twangel said it at some point in the last four years. Now, whether anyone should listen to him is a whole other question.

Which never made any sense to me. We are told Buffy's empowerment spell caused this. But never shown how. Instead we're shown that everything that occurs is a direct result of Twangel or Angel, from the moment he throws LA into Hell to his reappearance and taking the mantle of Twilight.

[norwie2010.livejournal.com]

You did it! Thank You for reviewing the latest issue of season 8. I'm really sorry that this is such a drag for You and Your enjoyment for Buffy is waning.

I cannot comment on Whedon or his joy/chore of writing Buffy stories - i've never been a Whedon fan, just a Buffy fan.

What i can comment on is that season 8 feels as if written by someone else - and that's (one of) the reasons why it is a) convoluted and ill paced and b) revisits old themes. I say that because i see different themes/motifs at work here, but the ones most promiently featured, at the foreground of the images/text are certainly a re-hash of season 2. Just as someone might write who is given vague direction and left with watching the TV show to "get it".

But, of course, this veers into conspiracy theory. ;-)

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Thanks.

And yes, it feels like it has one too many writers involved, all of whom only have a sketchy idea at best of who these characters are.

[fenchurche.livejournal.com]

I could completely buy that... but then I've long thought that the whole thing reads like it was written by someone who only watched the show up to Season Three and simply had someone work up two sentence summaries of the remaining seasons. And never bothered to watch AtS at all or even get summaries beyond "And then Angel went off to LA and did some stuff... oh, and Spike showed up for a bit later on after he died."

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

You can't have it both ways.

Sure, you can. All you have to do is make it ambiguous and never clarify, that way fandom will argue about it for years. Same will happen with the spacefucking. It'll be kind of like the end of the Sopranos, only ridiculous, offensive and stupid.

Now, it's clear from these panels that Giles didn't intend to destroy the "Seed" with the Scythe, he intended to destroy Angel with the Scythe.

Oh, no, Allie clarified he was going to break the Seed. If you look really hard at the panel, you can see Angel is actually behind him and he's headed for it with the Scythe. I guess we're supposed to extrapolate the scenes from subtle hints in the panels, so I do suppose we're supposed to see Buffy as flinging Spike into his ship.

and her calling, by choosing Angel, by choosing to destroy the Seed instead of destroying Angel

Well, according to Allie, Buffy is the betrayer, I'm just not sure how or why she's suddenly struck by it or, you know, why she'd betray herself to begin with. We're never told why. All we get from the very first arc is the very ominous "It's been a long year" in TLWH and a character that's a sociopath. Though Allie and Jeanty have been saying, no, she's perfectly in character and more mature.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Oh, no, Allie clarified he was going to break the Seed. If you look really hard at the panel, you can see Angel is actually behind him and he's headed for it with the Scythe.


Really? Okay, I guess that makes sense. Note - if you have to clarify key plot points than you are screwing up royally.

Well, according to Allie, Buffy is the betrayer, I'm just not sure how or why she's suddenly struck by it or, you know, why she'd betray herself to begin with.

I've read five interpretations. All of which make me want to bang my head against a wall or Whedon's. ie. They are all offensive. The latest is aycheb's below - feel free to read that one. According to her take - Buffy's betrayal is destroying the seed. So, okay, that's pretty much what I stated above - she destroyed the seed instead of Angel. If she killed Angel - the new universe would have been stopped from grabbing the seed. Don't like that message.

Though Allie and Jeanty have been saying, no, she's perfectly in character and more mature.

You know this may be the problem - we have Allie and Jeanty writing and drawing this story, and neither is good at telling a story. I stopped reading Allie's interviews when I realized that his interpretation of the tv series was basically Xander was the true hero and Buffy was a bitch for not loving Xander and knowing this. What I did not know or realize, if I did, I would have stopped reading these things, is that Allie was writing the story for Whedon.

[shapinglight]

Spike: I'm fairly certain I never mentioned...(and Spangel fans everywhere rejoice for having their slash fantasies made well...canon in the comic books?

Not really. Most Spangel 'shippers' slash fantasies involve an relationship between Angel and Spike that doesn't consist solely of murderous hatred.

I don't see how they can have any kind of relationship at all now - not even the sort of bromance they had in AtS season 5.

And I'm with you about Comics Angel. I don't care less about him. It amazes me that Whedon/Allie/whoever it actually was thinks that enough people will be invested in this version of the character to actually buy his comic book.

I agree with your review, and I share your irritation with, and disappointment in, Whedon.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Not really. Most Spangel 'shippers' slash fantasies involve an relationship between Angel and Spike that doesn't consist solely of murderous hatred.

True. My failed attempt at sarcasm. I cite being sick as an excuse. ;-)

And I'm with you about Comics Angel. I don't care less about him. It amazes me that Whedon/Allie/whoever it actually was thinks that enough people will be invested in this version of the character to actually buy his comic book.

Exactly. I can't stand the character. Why on earth would I waste money on a comic about him? It would be like reading the redemption journey of Caleb or Warren. Spare me.

[elisi]

The positive reviews, oddly, did not make me like the comics or endear me to them, if anything it made me despise them all the more. Which is odd, I know. You'd think it would be the opposite.
Oh thank goodness it's not just me. I feel like s8 is the Emperor's New Clothes, and the more people say 'My, aren't they lovely?' the more I want to shout 'But there's nothing there!' (Except some rather unfortunate and disturbing underwear...)

I don't have anything else to add, since I agree with everything you said. Although I thought you might be amused by my attempt at explaining the wtf-ery of s8 to a non-Buffy fan, using DW as an example.... ;)

[rahirah]

I feel like s8 is the Emperor's New Clothes, and the more people say 'My, aren't they lovely?' the more I want to shout 'But there's nothing there!'

Oh, God, me too. I mean, I feel for Joss, I know from experience that there's nothing worse than forcing yourself to trudge back to a well that's long since run dry. If there's any metaphorical meaning in S8 at all, I tend to think that it's "Forcing myself to write more Buffy destroys my creative soul." But frankly, I don't care about Joss's creative soul. Artistic navel-gazing is old hat to me; I have my own navel, thank you very much, and I don't care what color the bellybutton lint in Joss's is.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

It's funny I have a draft of my "get it out of my system" review of S8 on my hard disk and it's called "the emperor's new comic book". The analogy really writes itself.

[fenchurche.livejournal.com]

I feel like s8 is the Emperor's New Clothes, and the more people say 'My, aren't they lovely?' the more I want to shout 'But there's nothing there!' (Except some rather unfortunate and disturbing underwear...)

Best. Analogy. Ever.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Good analogy. It does feel a lot like that. But to expand on your analogy a bit? It's not only that I'm being told how wonderful the Emperors New Clothes are, but when I ask for a description? I find myself thinking...uh, what's so wonderful about that? And I'm incredibly glad I don't see that or I do see it if I squint but I'm thinking either "ew" or "offensive" or "bored now". How do you tell your friend that what they are squeeing over makes you want to wince? You don't.

Also, love your analogy to Doctor Who. Yep. Pretty much.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Interesting review. You raise some questions I have to think about.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

[sarian71]

Finally!!! A review I can agree with wholeheartedly! Love your snark! :)

"The positive reviews, oddly, did not make me like the comics or endear me to them, if anything it made me despise them all the more."

Ditto. I quite like elisi's 'Emperor's New Clothes' analogy...

"Slayers get butchered during this war."

It makes me furious that of all alternatives and possibilities, Joss chose to use this method to get rid of the excess slayers. And while at it, making it as brutal as possible.

"In regards to Angel's redeemption? I don't think the question is if he can be redeemed or if he is redeemable, so much as if he deserves to be or even should be"

I feel he's passed the point of no return. It's like cats with nine lives. Tenth time something happens? It won't be pretty. And at this point, imo, Angel has used up, and wasted, all his opportunities for redemption.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Can Ghost-Lindsey show up and harangue Angel, asking why was it exactly that Angel can determine that Lindsey wasn't 'part of the solution', but the guy who HAS been on the wrong side of the apocalypse how many times has an endless supply of 'get out of jail free' cards with "good luck next time!" ?

If Angel applied the same rules to himself as he did to everyone else, he would've walked into the sun by now.

[aycheb.livejournal.com]

Buffy: I've seen Angelus. And Angel's attempt to be Twilight. This is Neither. This is some cosmic vengeance.
It’s cosmic vengeance not cosmic justice. The most obvious reference is to the new universe wanting to take revenge on Mommy (as Spike told her it would) with a side issue of Buffy’s guilt for having, as she sees it, started all this with the Slayer spell.

We're also told that Twilight/Twangel has orchestrated the torture and deaths of slayers and civilians. Not only told this, shown it.
But we weren’t shown him orchestrating torture or death of civilians or slayers. We were shown him ordering Twilight believer’s deaths and sending Twilight’s armies back into battle against the Goddesses. All the rest was done by Twilight the organisation or its followers not Twilight himself as far as we were shown. It was assumed that Angel was responsible because he was the organization’s figurehead but never shown. We were shown that those who signed up to Twilight were in favor of nuking slayer/terrorist/criminals all on their ownsome, without Angel’s input because they didn’t jibe with American interests. When Angel told Buffy that governments were lining up to wipe out the “terrorists” she created, that had the ring of truth to me.

Yes, the big demon that Willow is fighting looks like a vagina with teeth.
I don’t think she’s fighting it, looked like she raised it. Given all her mother talk, it’s the mother of all demons.

Angel finally killed his vampire daddy. OR Twilight did. I'm not sure which.
Like father like daughter. Killing fathers is what Angel does best. Giles next.

Angel or Twangel snaps Giles's neck in a similar manner to Jenny Calendar's. Don't worry Angel fans, it's not really Angel, it's Twangel or Twilight or the new universe that did it. This isn't Angel's fault at all.
It’s totally Angel’s fault. Killing/replacing (when they're all gone, you'll understand) father figures is what he does.

It's clear from these panels that Giles didn't intend to destroy the "Seed" with the Scythe, he intended to destroy Angel with the Scythe.
The dialogue indicates that Giles was at least considering killing Angel when he went down there (but may have realised how impossible that would be when confronted with them). The panels show him heading towards the seed and away from Angel so in the event he was either hoping to break the former or get killed by the latter in front of Buffy (given the dialogue about getting between her and Angel).

No, she decides to destroy the Seed - which for some reason or other she equates with all the pain and suffering she's feeling at the moment.
I don’t think it’s just her pain. Spike told her the seed was the source of all things magical and demonic. All the hyped-up, overblown supernatural soap opera ways her world works, where universes get destroyed and people die just because it makes for a good punchline.

From Spike's perspective everything went well, and he darts off to fight the vagina demon that Willow couldn't defeat.
I think she made it rather than failed to defeat it. Whatever, it fits with Spike’s women issues rather niftily. He loves them even while he thinks they can be cunts.

[aycheb.livejournal.com]

And if Buffy betrayed herself - and her calling, by choosing Angel, by choosing to destroy the Seed instead of destroying Angel...then what message is that exactly?
I think her not killing Angel is irrelevant, the betrayal lies in her breaking the seed and hence knowingly setting up the Fray universe where she and her Slayers weren’t so much as a footnote in history. Where she had to slay Willow. Buffy’s friends are what she fights for. She just condemned Willow to linger beyond all human connection and eventually be killed by her.

Buffy began the season believing empowering all the Slayers could change the world for the better. She came to believe, however briefly, that she could lead them all to a promised land. She failed but they didn’t. Breaking the seed doesn’t depower the other Slayers but it does end the hype, the cult built up around their chosen one. I really don’t agree with Maggie or Moscow’s take that this is a story about Buffy losing her childish/romantic illusions vis a vis Angel. It’s tragic in an epic mentor-dying way and realizing that Angel is a jerk or that Spike is a really cool guy ain’t epic. I think it’s a more profound illusion that she’s giving up on. One that follows directly from your description of the end of S7 as “moving into a sunlit tomorrow.” Twilight is that brave new dawn fading to black (at least for those who started it).

If you read Moore and compare him to Whedon, you can see the differences, there are no inconsistencies in Moore's plot. His character's are intricately built. There's stories within stories. And each panel counts.
I think panels only count when the readers are paying attention but agree that Moore is a total controlist. If you disagree with his views on the world that’s not such a good thing. I can’t stand C.S. Lewis either. Whedon’s a much looser writer and personally I like the free-wheelingness to what he does but it has obviously derailed large number of those who went along for this particular ride.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Yep, I very much agree with your impression of the issue.

The positive reviews, oddly, did not make me like the comics or endear me to them, if anything it made me despise them all the more.

Yeah, same here. Maybe it's because even through the eyes of the most positive reviewers I see nothing I like. The themes they lay out are old and were already done much better in S2 and to me it looks like a lot of the rejoicing is about the beat down of others (look, Angel's really an asshole and so on...).

Problem is that the crappy random construction takes every emotional connection I had to the story away. Those characters are not the ones I care about and their actions make no sense.

I also agree with your take on what might have happened. Joss just lost interest.

[fenchurche.livejournal.com]

I really don't have anything I can add... but wanted to thank you for writing the review, because you've perfectly summed up almost all of the issues I've had with the comics.

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

[Don't worry Angel fans, it's not really Angel, it's Twangel or Twilight or the new universe that did it. This isn't Angel's fault at all. He's completely blameless and deserves our sympathy and tears. Sigh. ]
lol
I love when you are being snarky!

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Thank you. This one wasn't as snarky as I intended. I blame being a bit sick and out of focus...or at least I'm using that as my excuse.