This and that and the other thing...
Jan. 14th, 2011 11:03 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkat1. ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
rozk has a lovely and comforting poem about mirrors for those of us who aren't particularly fond of them. Go here: http://rozk.livejournal.com/391492.html
2. Brad Meltzer's most recent interview on Word Balloon regarding his work on the Buffy comics, unfortunately or fortunately depending on one's pov - did not tell me anything I didn't already know or hadn't guessed from his previous but far less direct interviews.
Felt like I'd read it before, which I hadn't. What did he say? Ah. Here's a quick rundown from whedonesque :
* he knew that Angel was the big bad from the beginning, knew how it started and how was about to end, didn't knew about the middle; [Which explains why it didn't make any sense.]
* it was his idea with the Universe with a bigger plan for slayers;[Apparently Meltzer was reading Alan Moore's Watchmen and Promothea and got them confused with the Buffy tv series?]
* didn't expect to do so much geek stuff with Andrew (wanted to do this stuff with Xander but he realized that Xander had matured during S8);[Proof that he'd only seen season 1 and 2 of Buffy and nothing past that point.]
* he would like to work on S9 if the schedule permitted;[For the sake of my friends who are looking forward to S9, let's hope Mr. Meltzer is busier than Whedon and has no time.]
* he realized that he's the one who's been f@#$-up in the issue (issue 34), not Buffy [his words not mine - and yep, I'd agree with him on that. He fucked up big time. Note to Mr. Meltzer - when two issues of your comics require titles that substitute letters for the word fucked, you are doing something wrong. Fucked is right, in oh so many ways...but kudos for admitting it, even if it is half-jokingly. Too bad you didn't have a better artist to help you out.]
For more go here:http://whedonesque.com/comments/25671
Does it change my opinion of the comics? Not in the least. I actually figured most of that out prior to the interview, so I'm not shocked or surprised by it in the least. The only thing that comes as a surprise is he may do S9 (which I thought he decided against due to all the negative backlash from fan boards - demonstrating even popular and best-selling writers are sensitive to negative criticism - you can't escape it folks.) It does however underline and explain many of my issues and complaints regarding the comics - from the beginning, it also to a degree provides a certain level of legitimacy and validation to those complaints but beyond the schadenufraud aspects of I've told you so? Little pleasure or satisfaction. Instead I feel a bit of sadness and more than a touch of annoyance at a writer that I once respected and admired and now, feel disappointed by even though I understand why he did what he did - far more than most I suspect. I read Whedon's glowing fanboy introduction to Meltzer's Identity Crisis. And I know that they are close friends and comrades. Their collaboration is really no different than Neil Gaiman and Terry Prachett (although I liked that one better because Gaiman and Prachett's styles are more harmonious and they knew what each other was doing all the way through). But, Whedon's fickle behavior in regards to the comic medium, and wishy-washy attitude towards the comics and the characters - along with the fans of the characters ...makes it difficult for me to trust him any more to tell me an interesting and provocative story, let alone stick with one. Whedon, you've lost another devoted fan. If I see the Avengers - it won't be because of you, it will be because of Samuel L. Jackson, Jeremy Renner, and Robert Downey Jr (who I'd watch read the phone book).
3. A fan vid that does an interesting job of depicting the feminist view of Firefly (a sci-fi tv series that other fans have critiqued as being fairly sexist or having disturbing sexist content, this female fan sees quite differently. The vid was part of More Joy Day and got over 1120 comments in her lj - possibly because the first comment was by the creator of the series, himself, Whedon, and to my knowledge this is the only time he's commented on a fan's vid of his work - something that I have mixed feelings about - while I'm thrilled for the fan - who deserved the drive-by praise, Whedon's comment struck me as a bit too self-important and sly-- is it just me, or has Whedon spent a bit too much time posting to and reading his own personal fan blog that bears his name? Don't get me wrong - I understand the temptation, who amongst us could resist...but..I think it can be toxic to a writer to spend much time there. As I've been told more than once...by professionals in the arts: "Never read reviews of your work - if they are raves, you'll get cocky and think you are amazing and start screwing up, and if they are horrible, you will shut down and screw up. Best to ignore entirely." Bob Fosse gave this advice to Bebe Neuwirth, and I was given it by a Professional Theater actor - experience has taught me? They are right. Little good can come of it. I suspect giving in to the temptation has to some extent ruined Whedon. As it did JK Rowling to some degree. Don't get me wrong - that's not to say we shouldn't except praise or praise each other's work or posts or give awards...I think in moderation it's fine. But too much time spent reading fan boards and fan blogs and reviews devoted solely to one's own work...can be damaging to one who has to constantly create. After a while you become a bit like Narcissus staring into that river, so in love with your reflection that you may drown in it. They can freeze or waterlog the brain. I know the criticism and praise online has at times frozen my creative writerly juices while fueling my critical ones. And from what I've seen of Whedon - I'm not alone in that. So careful and moderation - I think are the watchwords here.) Underneath the cut:
Note - the song Defying Gravity is from the musical Wicked by Stephan Schwartz, while I was less than impressed with Wicked as a musical overall, Defying Gravity is a wonderful song and the best thing from it.
4. This week's Grey's Anatomy had Adam Busch. It's had quite the list of Buffy alumns, more than any other show - demonstrating that Shondra Rhimes was definitely a fan (shame she can't write comic books or try her hand at a Buffy reboot). To date? Marti Noxon wrote for it, Seth Green, Amber Benson,
and Adam Busch all had guest star appearances. Still waiting for them to grab James Marsters...but that may well be a long wait, since all he does are guest stars on procedurals and on cult B-grade sci-fi tv shows. (Torchwood didn't go A grade until Children of the Earth.)
Tired. Off to bed. May have to do some shoveling tomorrow to get laundry done, or I may wait until Monday - MJK day to do it. Loving the three day weekend - so much, that I didn't try to schedule doc appts during MJK day. Also have the sci-fi adventure/morality story I was telling/plotting in my head, back again. I may write it down yet...but writing it down takes time which don't have at the moment, plus energy. Might do a quick outline and fill it in later. It's nice to have an on-going story in my head...I missed that for six or seven years - when it was all on paper or fanfic related.
Reassuring in a way. I thought I'd lost the skill to tell myself an intricate detailed story. Stories..they are what keeps me going..daydreams, a movie in one's head during the doldrums of the day. A free-form of entertainment often more satisfying than the kind you find inside a book, tv show, or film or play - the kind you make up as you go, switch and change, find...and discover, no spoilers, because it's not written until you give it words, you are its' god, its creator, it lives and breaths only inside the hard-drive of your mind.
rozk has a lovely and comforting poem about mirrors for those of us who aren't particularly fond of them. Go here: http://rozk.livejournal.com/391492.html2. Brad Meltzer's most recent interview on Word Balloon regarding his work on the Buffy comics, unfortunately or fortunately depending on one's pov - did not tell me anything I didn't already know or hadn't guessed from his previous but far less direct interviews.
Felt like I'd read it before, which I hadn't. What did he say? Ah. Here's a quick rundown from whedonesque :
* he knew that Angel was the big bad from the beginning, knew how it started and how was about to end, didn't knew about the middle; [Which explains why it didn't make any sense.]
* it was his idea with the Universe with a bigger plan for slayers;[Apparently Meltzer was reading Alan Moore's Watchmen and Promothea and got them confused with the Buffy tv series?]
* didn't expect to do so much geek stuff with Andrew (wanted to do this stuff with Xander but he realized that Xander had matured during S8);[Proof that he'd only seen season 1 and 2 of Buffy and nothing past that point.]
* he would like to work on S9 if the schedule permitted;[For the sake of my friends who are looking forward to S9, let's hope Mr. Meltzer is busier than Whedon and has no time.]
* he realized that he's the one who's been f@#$-up in the issue (issue 34), not Buffy [his words not mine - and yep, I'd agree with him on that. He fucked up big time. Note to Mr. Meltzer - when two issues of your comics require titles that substitute letters for the word fucked, you are doing something wrong. Fucked is right, in oh so many ways...but kudos for admitting it, even if it is half-jokingly. Too bad you didn't have a better artist to help you out.]
For more go here:http://whedonesque.com/comments/25671
Does it change my opinion of the comics? Not in the least. I actually figured most of that out prior to the interview, so I'm not shocked or surprised by it in the least. The only thing that comes as a surprise is he may do S9 (which I thought he decided against due to all the negative backlash from fan boards - demonstrating even popular and best-selling writers are sensitive to negative criticism - you can't escape it folks.) It does however underline and explain many of my issues and complaints regarding the comics - from the beginning, it also to a degree provides a certain level of legitimacy and validation to those complaints but beyond the schadenufraud aspects of I've told you so? Little pleasure or satisfaction. Instead I feel a bit of sadness and more than a touch of annoyance at a writer that I once respected and admired and now, feel disappointed by even though I understand why he did what he did - far more than most I suspect. I read Whedon's glowing fanboy introduction to Meltzer's Identity Crisis. And I know that they are close friends and comrades. Their collaboration is really no different than Neil Gaiman and Terry Prachett (although I liked that one better because Gaiman and Prachett's styles are more harmonious and they knew what each other was doing all the way through). But, Whedon's fickle behavior in regards to the comic medium, and wishy-washy attitude towards the comics and the characters - along with the fans of the characters ...makes it difficult for me to trust him any more to tell me an interesting and provocative story, let alone stick with one. Whedon, you've lost another devoted fan. If I see the Avengers - it won't be because of you, it will be because of Samuel L. Jackson, Jeremy Renner, and Robert Downey Jr (who I'd watch read the phone book).
3. A fan vid that does an interesting job of depicting the feminist view of Firefly (a sci-fi tv series that other fans have critiqued as being fairly sexist or having disturbing sexist content, this female fan sees quite differently. The vid was part of More Joy Day and got over 1120 comments in her lj - possibly because the first comment was by the creator of the series, himself, Whedon, and to my knowledge this is the only time he's commented on a fan's vid of his work - something that I have mixed feelings about - while I'm thrilled for the fan - who deserved the drive-by praise, Whedon's comment struck me as a bit too self-important and sly-- is it just me, or has Whedon spent a bit too much time posting to and reading his own personal fan blog that bears his name? Don't get me wrong - I understand the temptation, who amongst us could resist...but..I think it can be toxic to a writer to spend much time there. As I've been told more than once...by professionals in the arts: "Never read reviews of your work - if they are raves, you'll get cocky and think you are amazing and start screwing up, and if they are horrible, you will shut down and screw up. Best to ignore entirely." Bob Fosse gave this advice to Bebe Neuwirth, and I was given it by a Professional Theater actor - experience has taught me? They are right. Little good can come of it. I suspect giving in to the temptation has to some extent ruined Whedon. As it did JK Rowling to some degree. Don't get me wrong - that's not to say we shouldn't except praise or praise each other's work or posts or give awards...I think in moderation it's fine. But too much time spent reading fan boards and fan blogs and reviews devoted solely to one's own work...can be damaging to one who has to constantly create. After a while you become a bit like Narcissus staring into that river, so in love with your reflection that you may drown in it. They can freeze or waterlog the brain. I know the criticism and praise online has at times frozen my creative writerly juices while fueling my critical ones. And from what I've seen of Whedon - I'm not alone in that. So careful and moderation - I think are the watchwords here.) Underneath the cut:
Note - the song Defying Gravity is from the musical Wicked by Stephan Schwartz, while I was less than impressed with Wicked as a musical overall, Defying Gravity is a wonderful song and the best thing from it.
4. This week's Grey's Anatomy had Adam Busch. It's had quite the list of Buffy alumns, more than any other show - demonstrating that Shondra Rhimes was definitely a fan (shame she can't write comic books or try her hand at a Buffy reboot). To date? Marti Noxon wrote for it, Seth Green, Amber Benson,
and Adam Busch all had guest star appearances. Still waiting for them to grab James Marsters...but that may well be a long wait, since all he does are guest stars on procedurals and on cult B-grade sci-fi tv shows. (Torchwood didn't go A grade until Children of the Earth.)
Tired. Off to bed. May have to do some shoveling tomorrow to get laundry done, or I may wait until Monday - MJK day to do it. Loving the three day weekend - so much, that I didn't try to schedule doc appts during MJK day. Also have the sci-fi adventure/morality story I was telling/plotting in my head, back again. I may write it down yet...but writing it down takes time which don't have at the moment, plus energy. Might do a quick outline and fill it in later. It's nice to have an on-going story in my head...I missed that for six or seven years - when it was all on paper or fanfic related.
Reassuring in a way. I thought I'd lost the skill to tell myself an intricate detailed story. Stories..they are what keeps me going..daydreams, a movie in one's head during the doldrums of the day. A free-form of entertainment often more satisfying than the kind you find inside a book, tv show, or film or play - the kind you make up as you go, switch and change, find...and discover, no spoilers, because it's not written until you give it words, you are its' god, its creator, it lives and breaths only inside the hard-drive of your mind.
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no subject
Date: 2011-01-15 05:10 am (UTC)I must say that video is spectacular, do you have a link to the creator's lj? I want to compliment her on using the actual Broadway recording and not some contemporary pop version like the Glee performance of the song. The musical score and crescendoes were all the more fitting with the images, and I love the last bit with River and the troopers coming in while the entire cast joined in with the song.
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Date: 2011-01-15 08:28 am (UTC)Tim Minear sent the link to Joss.
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Date: 2011-01-15 09:09 am (UTC)negative backlash from fan boards
More likely from comicbooks media (positive review was "silly" from Fangoria) my heroes being the snarky guys from CBR.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-15 01:19 pm (UTC)True. It wasn't the fans, it was the professional reviewers and his colleagues that really ripped it apart. The fans had a mixed response. And fan reviewers such as Buffyfest were fairly complimentary. But CBR and I believe IGA were not complimentary.
He'd come off a whirl-wind of praise from these contemporaries for Identity Crisis and his run on Superman, I think he was shocked by
their reaction to his take on the Buffy comics.
but Meltzer also said that initially he had sent to Joss what he considered fanfic
Oh I did not know that. But that makes a lot of sense. The whole thing reads like fanfic - Alternate Universe fanfic. It does not feel like a true continuation of the story or does it organically appear to flow from it. What it feels like is a big What-if Scenario that intrigued Whedon for it's thematic questions/implications, which Whedon appears to still be interested in (since many of them appeared to be addressed, albeit much more coherently, in Dollhouse, which I suppose says something - considering Dollhouse wasn't that coherent to begin with.)
I guess we're never getting that Ripper one-shot or series, are we?
Oh well. Probably for the best.
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Date: 2011-01-15 03:18 pm (UTC)All of this. Can I snag it for my 'review' of #40?
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Date: 2011-01-15 03:33 pm (UTC)When is issue 40 coming out, by the way? I thought it was supposed to be out in the beginning of January? Oh wait, Whedon's writing it - it will probably be out sometime in June...
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Date: 2011-01-15 03:35 pm (UTC)I don't want to do any kind of real meta (the essay was enough for me), but OTOH I'd like to comment on these revelations. Using a quote (which says what I feel, but haven't quite been able to put into words yet) would be perfect! :) Now I just need to hunt down a lot of gifs... (I figure it's the end, I ought to splash out!)
When is issue 40 coming out, by the way?
The 19th since that's Buffy birthday...
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Date: 2011-01-15 03:55 pm (UTC)Ah. Poor Buffy. Whedon always feels the need to either forget her birthday entirely or torture her incessantly on it.
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Date: 2011-01-15 04:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-15 04:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-15 04:16 pm (UTC)Also I read the preview pages - they feel different than Allies, they are definitely written by Whedon. It also fits his MO regarding both the series and the comics - he likes writing the prologue and coda to Buffy for some bizarre reason. He also appears to like to write single issue - wrap up talky dream-scape experimental comics that feel like long quippy prose poems with pictures, notably the Willow one-shot, The Chain, Anywhere but Here...
no subject
Date: 2011-01-15 09:34 am (UTC)My main remaining beef wit S8 was that it ruined quite a few characters retroactively for me. I imagined post show Buffy as a grown up and instead after the show she regressed and became a complete moron. Angel deto, he did not learn of all his run ins with destiny, instead he laps up every word from a talking dog. I couldn't reconcile those characters with their arcs from the show and now I don't have to. The only reason why they are so OOC is that Meltzer and Allie didn't really watch all of the show let alone get what happened. They are no more legitimate than Willingham's Spike and I'm glad for it.
It's not some natural continuation, Joss always had in mind, just fanfic. And it has to stand on it's own merits, just like fanfic.
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Date: 2011-01-15 04:12 pm (UTC)The realization that Whedon operated purely on the macro level or looked at the forest and spent little to no time examining the trees, helps quite a bit with the fact that S8 ruined quite a few characters for me retroactively. Now, I that I can legitimately separate the comics from the tv series more or less completely, and Whedon himself from the series (it no longer feels like just Whedon's creation or an extension of Whedon, not that it ever really was if we think about it - but now I feel it doesn't, which is quite different than intellectually knowing it) - I am able to appreciate the characters again.
It's not some natural continuation, Joss always had in mind, just fanfic. And it has to stand on it's own merits, just like fanfic.
I think this is true. And feel much the same way about Fray now as well. Looking back on s7 - the main flaws have to do with Whedon's attempts to link Buffy to Fray - to introduce a scythe that he'd created in Fray - into Buffy. His desire to link his comic book reality to the tv one - doesn't work, and if you ignore the plot-threads in S7 that were attempts to link the two, the season actually is more workable, plot wise.
The characters of the Buffyverse no longer serve the themes that intrigue the writer or answer the questions that intrigue him - the comics clearly demonstrate that, I think. If nothing else does.
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Date: 2011-01-15 11:25 am (UTC)*nods* I remember Moffat being asked whether he looked at stuff online, and he said not since he'd taken over as showrunner. And not just because of the 'going to your head' bit, but - and I liked this - he wasn't writing for that subset of hardcore fans, he was writing for the average viewer. If the show did well in the ratings, he'd take that as confirmation that he was on the right track. I find this especially astute since the hardcore fans can usually not agree on anything...
Re. Joss, then the attitude was probably well summed up in that quote Whedonesque used the other day: "Find me one person who liked Buffy the Vampire Slayer but not Joss, and I'll show you a liar."
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Date: 2011-01-15 01:43 pm (UTC)Though to play Devil's advocate - by that logic, Michael Bay is a great director... ;)
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Date: 2011-01-15 01:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-15 02:02 pm (UTC)Ah, commercial success not necessarily the stamp of approval that we should aspire to.
(Yes, I've seen and almost walked out of the Transformer's movie, the first one, not the second - wisely chose to skip that one entirely. And have a tendency to prefer non-commercially successful stories to commercially successful ones, much to my considerable chagrin.)
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Date: 2011-01-15 01:51 pm (UTC)That statement has oddly changed my mind about the Buffy reboot.
I'm rooting for it to be made now - to be incredibly successful, for Whit Anderson to become a big name and possibly go on to write a successful version of Wonder Woman and do a reboot of Firefly focusing on the adult years of River - exploring the universe with the Serenity, after Mal's untimely death, with Zoe her co-captain, and a whole new crew. And for it to be directed by the woman who directed and won for The Hurt Locker, with the star being an list actress.
At a certain point, I think, if a story is interesting enough, if the characters complex enough, and the writers did their initial job in creating it - it outgrows its creator. The creator is no longer required. The story can continue without them. This is particularly true, I think, of stories told in extended serial format or on-going narratives without endings.
It's interesting to note that Whedon had initially tried to kill off his heroine, that's his inclination was to kill off his characters in the end - a big tragic ending, which would close the book. Make it difficult for anyone to legitmately continue it. If he'd accomplished that - he would have followed in the footsteps of Conan Doyle, Agatha Christie, and countless others who did basically just that for that reason. Doyle's attempt much like Whedon's did not work - the fans demanded and the media (publishers or network) persuaded with cash that the writer resurrect their hero and end their tales on a happier note. Both opted oddly for an open-ended one and by doing so, freed it up for multiple interpretations and endings.
I've discovered something these past few years...fanfic, written and posted for free online, by people I've met online has done a better job of asking and answering questions I still have about these characters than Whedon and his cronies have. Whedon and his cronies fanfic (with the possible exception of Brian Lynch) has asked and answered questions that I already knew the answers to. And were already asked and answered by Whedon and Mutant Enemy in tv series and unrelated stories on multiple occassions.
It's almost as if Whedon is unsatisfied with the answer and thinks if he looks at the question from every possible angle - he'll get a different one. But it's the same magic trick, the same puzzle, over and over and over again - with the same ultimate result.
And I can't help but wonder if the internet has caused this to some degree - this going around in a circle. Too much time spent staring at one's reflection can, I suspect, be detrimental to the creative juices.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-15 01:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-01-15 03:24 pm (UTC)More or less, yes. There's a lot of RTD Vs. Moffat arguments - which then get complicated by the fact that Moffat in many ways has brought the show back to what it used to be like, back in the old days... And of course the changing faces of the Doctor add to all the divisions... *g*
At a certain point, I think, if a story is interesting enough, if the characters complex enough, and the writers did their initial job in creating it - it outgrows its creator. The creator is no longer required. The story can continue without them. This is particularly true, I think, of stories told in extended serial format or on-going narratives without endings.
*nods a lot* Just look at the Star Trek re-boot f.ex. (Love all your speculation btw. I sincerely hope something similar happens.) Of course there's things like British shows being 're-made' which generally doesn't work very well (the Office apart).
I've discovered something these past few years...fanfic, written and posted for free online, by people I've met online has done a better job of asking and answering questions I still have about these characters than Whedon and his cronies have.
Wordy McWord. During S1 of Torchwood in particular, I remember that the fic was often much better than the actual episodes - which I guess goes to show that the *concept* and the *characters* were sound enough. You just need quality writing to go with that.
no subject
Date: 2011-01-15 04:40 pm (UTC)thanks for posting it.
I hope you have a good weekend (and enjoy SPIKE! #4)