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shadowkatRe-watching the first episode of Game of Thrones, after giving up on Boardwalk Empire - which reminds me of Scorsese last two attempts at period dramas - Age of Innocence and Gangs of New York - both poorly written, but quite pretty art direction wise. Period pieces really aren't Scorsese's forte in my opinion.
In my re-watch, I'm struck by how Bran is climbing over everything in the first episode. He's at the very top of the castle, climbing the parapets - I'm guessing that's a blue screen, can't imagine the actor being permitted to do that. Seriously, the fact that kid hasn't fallen and killed himself by now is a minor miracle. It was accident just waiting to happen. To give Catelynn some credit - she does try to stop him, just not hard enough. These kids are really horribly disciplined considering the time period and the likely-hood that they won't make it past the age of 16, and how hard it was to have kids to begin with.
Ayra (pronounced Aie-Ya (no "r") seems to have no regard for decorum and will say anything. Can see why Sansa is annoyed by her.
The killing at the beginning feels even more ironic upon re-watch. Ned really does do that man an injustice, a far greater one than Joffrey does to him. For the man - risked all - to warn Ned and others of what he saw. And begs them to send word to his family that he is not a coward. But Ned, even though he half believes him (says as much to his sons - that "the man didn't lie, he saw what he saw or thought he saw), kills the man, and then puts it out of his mind entirely - focusing on issues that really aren't that pressing. Those no reason to believe anyone killed Jon Arryn - he died of a fever. And Lysa, we're told isn't the most reliable person on the planet. Nor have they seen either in a long time.
Meanwhile...Robert, makes it clear to everyone upon arrival that he cares more for his passion (possibly unrequited, not clear) for the long-dead and long-gone Lyanna than anyone else. Literally anyone else.
Hard to feel all that sorry for either of these guys. Although, Scean Bean's performance endears him to me. And his scene with his brother - where Benjy tells him that the man he killed was an honorable and courageous ranger, amongst the best - and would not leave without good reason. Dire-wolf south of the wall? Is that any odder than the mention of a White Walker? After seeing the remains of a wildling massacre.
And...yes, there's definitely precedence for Daenerys ability to walk through fire without being burned. ("It's too hot my lady," - she feels nothing. And later, when she places the dragon eggs in the fire and the handmaiden rushes to salve her wounds, burning herself on them, notices Dany isn't burned at all.)
Well the guy playing Khal Drogo is certainly attractive in a He-man sort of way, will give him that. People whined about the feast not looking as nice in the books - it is realistic though. If you had meat and scrumptious food in a hot area like Malta and zero refrigeration - you'd have flies. There's a reason most Middle Eastern and Desert Food is dried or ground. I remember seeing this in modern-day Turkey, which is near that area.
The scene where Catelynn and Ned find out Lyssa has left Kings Landing for The Eyrie...is a clue as to who killed Jon Ayrran, as is a later scene where Lyssa is still breast-feeding Robin. In the book we have a lengthy conversation between Catelynn and Lyssa's aids who inform Catelynn that Jon Ayrran had problems with the relationship between Catelynn and Robin, and wanted to send him to squire with Stannis Barratheon - it's mentioned off-hand somewhere in a later episode. At any rate - you should realize right off the bat that the Stark's trust the wrong people and have really bad insight in regards to people. Ned executes the brave Ranger...who warns of the White Walker's up north, he takes Robert (all advice to the contrary) up on his offer to be hand to the King and agrees to promise Sansa to Joffrey in marriage and he and Catelynn believe without question Lyssa's message and jump to the conclusion she left Kings Landing because Ayrran was murdered and she knows who did it.
It never occurs to them - that Robert is untrustworthy or that Lyssa is or that either have agendas?
Granted, there's no real reason why they necessarily should distrust these two people, but I see past indications...
I still prefer the book's version of the Jamie/Cersei tryst - we got more information during it. Although the book paints them as more black and white villains - in Bran's pov. So maybe this is a better version if a little less sexy. The problem with the book is it reads as a really odd young adult novel. And Jamie's comment to Bran, when he pulls him partway in from the window is understandable, just as is their surprise - I mean hello, he's so high up, who'd have predicted it. (It is rather well set-up actually - we have the initial scene of Cersei worrying about something and Jamie's reckless disregard - who cares if they catch us.., almost as if he wants to be caught. And Bran's reckless disregard for his safety, climbing where-ever. Bran and Jamie are paralleled here and in the books a bit - both reckless, both fearless. You can see Bran climbing into this one, and you can see Jamie and Cersei reacting the way they do.) Also Costa-Walda acts it in an interesting manner, almost as if - he doesn't really want to shove the kid out the window. "Are you completely mad?" - Jamie. Cersei - "he saw us! he saw us!" Jamie - "I heard you the first time." Cersei glaring at Jamie with fear. Jamie - "How old are you boy?" Bran -"Ten." Jamie repeats it - "Ten?" He turns from Jamie and looks at Cersei, who is afraid, and states...with an air of weary-resignation, "The things I do for love." And a half-smile of equally weary resignation.
It's odd, but I find myself more sympathetic towards Jamie than Ned. I guess because I found Bran's climbing a bit annoying? I don't know. Never understood my reaction to that either in the series or the books. I should hate Jamie, I know, but I actually found him entertaining, while Ned grated on my nerves.
Catelynn does have a funny line in regards to Tyrion..."I hear he reads all night long, we need Candles, lots of Candles." Master (whateverhisnameiswhichIcan'tspellorremember): "I heard he drinks all night long - we should supply more ale." Catelynn - "How much can he possibly drink? I mean, a man of his, ahem, stature?" (LOL! Catelynn is actually quite funny in the series, a vast improvement over Catelynn in the books - she was annoyingly holier-than-thou in the books (condescending and patronizing with a capital C and capital P).
ETA: They did the breakfast scene in episode 2, completely wrong - in the original scene in the book - both Joffrey and Baratheon are there. That's important. Instead we have Tyrion and Jamie, indicating strongly that Jamie attempted to kill Bran (after tossing him out the window) when that is most definitely not the case in the books. Dang-it. How are they going resolve that now? They've set it up wrong. Maybe they will change it? But why??? The original version was more interesting.
In my re-watch, I'm struck by how Bran is climbing over everything in the first episode. He's at the very top of the castle, climbing the parapets - I'm guessing that's a blue screen, can't imagine the actor being permitted to do that. Seriously, the fact that kid hasn't fallen and killed himself by now is a minor miracle. It was accident just waiting to happen. To give Catelynn some credit - she does try to stop him, just not hard enough. These kids are really horribly disciplined considering the time period and the likely-hood that they won't make it past the age of 16, and how hard it was to have kids to begin with.
Ayra (pronounced Aie-Ya (no "r") seems to have no regard for decorum and will say anything. Can see why Sansa is annoyed by her.
The killing at the beginning feels even more ironic upon re-watch. Ned really does do that man an injustice, a far greater one than Joffrey does to him. For the man - risked all - to warn Ned and others of what he saw. And begs them to send word to his family that he is not a coward. But Ned, even though he half believes him (says as much to his sons - that "the man didn't lie, he saw what he saw or thought he saw), kills the man, and then puts it out of his mind entirely - focusing on issues that really aren't that pressing. Those no reason to believe anyone killed Jon Arryn - he died of a fever. And Lysa, we're told isn't the most reliable person on the planet. Nor have they seen either in a long time.
Meanwhile...Robert, makes it clear to everyone upon arrival that he cares more for his passion (possibly unrequited, not clear) for the long-dead and long-gone Lyanna than anyone else. Literally anyone else.
Hard to feel all that sorry for either of these guys. Although, Scean Bean's performance endears him to me. And his scene with his brother - where Benjy tells him that the man he killed was an honorable and courageous ranger, amongst the best - and would not leave without good reason. Dire-wolf south of the wall? Is that any odder than the mention of a White Walker? After seeing the remains of a wildling massacre.
And...yes, there's definitely precedence for Daenerys ability to walk through fire without being burned. ("It's too hot my lady," - she feels nothing. And later, when she places the dragon eggs in the fire and the handmaiden rushes to salve her wounds, burning herself on them, notices Dany isn't burned at all.)
Well the guy playing Khal Drogo is certainly attractive in a He-man sort of way, will give him that. People whined about the feast not looking as nice in the books - it is realistic though. If you had meat and scrumptious food in a hot area like Malta and zero refrigeration - you'd have flies. There's a reason most Middle Eastern and Desert Food is dried or ground. I remember seeing this in modern-day Turkey, which is near that area.
The scene where Catelynn and Ned find out Lyssa has left Kings Landing for The Eyrie...is a clue as to who killed Jon Ayrran, as is a later scene where Lyssa is still breast-feeding Robin. In the book we have a lengthy conversation between Catelynn and Lyssa's aids who inform Catelynn that Jon Ayrran had problems with the relationship between Catelynn and Robin, and wanted to send him to squire with Stannis Barratheon - it's mentioned off-hand somewhere in a later episode. At any rate - you should realize right off the bat that the Stark's trust the wrong people and have really bad insight in regards to people. Ned executes the brave Ranger...who warns of the White Walker's up north, he takes Robert (all advice to the contrary) up on his offer to be hand to the King and agrees to promise Sansa to Joffrey in marriage and he and Catelynn believe without question Lyssa's message and jump to the conclusion she left Kings Landing because Ayrran was murdered and she knows who did it.
It never occurs to them - that Robert is untrustworthy or that Lyssa is or that either have agendas?
Granted, there's no real reason why they necessarily should distrust these two people, but I see past indications...
I still prefer the book's version of the Jamie/Cersei tryst - we got more information during it. Although the book paints them as more black and white villains - in Bran's pov. So maybe this is a better version if a little less sexy. The problem with the book is it reads as a really odd young adult novel. And Jamie's comment to Bran, when he pulls him partway in from the window is understandable, just as is their surprise - I mean hello, he's so high up, who'd have predicted it. (It is rather well set-up actually - we have the initial scene of Cersei worrying about something and Jamie's reckless disregard - who cares if they catch us.., almost as if he wants to be caught. And Bran's reckless disregard for his safety, climbing where-ever. Bran and Jamie are paralleled here and in the books a bit - both reckless, both fearless. You can see Bran climbing into this one, and you can see Jamie and Cersei reacting the way they do.) Also Costa-Walda acts it in an interesting manner, almost as if - he doesn't really want to shove the kid out the window. "Are you completely mad?" - Jamie. Cersei - "he saw us! he saw us!" Jamie - "I heard you the first time." Cersei glaring at Jamie with fear. Jamie - "How old are you boy?" Bran -"Ten." Jamie repeats it - "Ten?" He turns from Jamie and looks at Cersei, who is afraid, and states...with an air of weary-resignation, "The things I do for love." And a half-smile of equally weary resignation.
It's odd, but I find myself more sympathetic towards Jamie than Ned. I guess because I found Bran's climbing a bit annoying? I don't know. Never understood my reaction to that either in the series or the books. I should hate Jamie, I know, but I actually found him entertaining, while Ned grated on my nerves.
Catelynn does have a funny line in regards to Tyrion..."I hear he reads all night long, we need Candles, lots of Candles." Master (whateverhisnameiswhichIcan'tspellorremember): "I heard he drinks all night long - we should supply more ale." Catelynn - "How much can he possibly drink? I mean, a man of his, ahem, stature?" (LOL! Catelynn is actually quite funny in the series, a vast improvement over Catelynn in the books - she was annoyingly holier-than-thou in the books (condescending and patronizing with a capital C and capital P).
ETA: They did the breakfast scene in episode 2, completely wrong - in the original scene in the book - both Joffrey and Baratheon are there. That's important. Instead we have Tyrion and Jamie, indicating strongly that Jamie attempted to kill Bran (after tossing him out the window) when that is most definitely not the case in the books. Dang-it. How are they going resolve that now? They've set it up wrong. Maybe they will change it? But why??? The original version was more interesting.
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no subject
Date: 2011-07-05 12:20 am (UTC)No, they're not - I just reread that a couple days ago. It's exactly as it is in the books (except that Tyrion's in the library, not in the kennel, before he slaps Joffrey.) Neither Joffrey nor Robert is present at the breakfast; Cersei tells Tyrion that King Robert is with Ned Stark to comfort him in his sorrow.
I believe the interaction between Robert and Joffrey that you're referring to is only referenced in a flashback much later in Storm of Swords and it doesn't happen at that breakfast anyway.
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Date: 2011-07-05 01:54 pm (UTC)Wait...It took place completely off-stage in the books ??? For some reason I assumed that Martin was referencing a prior scene...
Which means, I'm right - he hasn't plotted these things out very well has he. Probably realized who did it in SoS then had to figure out a way to explain it.
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Date: 2011-07-05 03:01 pm (UTC)I don't think it's sloppy plotting at all, to be honest - people and incidents that don't seem important are revealed to be EXTREMELY important later on. Sometimes Martin forgets details like the gender of a horse, but on the big plot things, I think he's really solid. Even Feast and Dance weren't delayed because they were instances where he didn't know what he was going to do, they were delayed because he knew where he needed to be, and because he decided that doing all the narrative in flashbacks if he skipped five years wouldn't really work.
Moreover, it's the POV structure that limits what people know when they know it. Tyrion has no reason to think that the conversation he observes is significant at the time.
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Date: 2011-07-05 04:32 pm (UTC)I'm getting frustrated with the books...because I'm starting to realize that too much of the action (that I find interesting) happens off stage or in flashback, while the action I find deadly dull or gory beyond belief is shown in graphic detail.
Example: The conversation that we are shown in Game with Tyrion and his siblings tells us little that we don't already know - it is unnecessary and pointless, albeit entertaining. The conversationg that Tyrion remembers later - we are never shown until Storm of Swords. And in flashback. And 2000 pages after what happens to Bran. It's not shown to the reader at the time it happens.
And it is a far more important conversation in regards to character arcs and plot than the other conversation was. Indicating one of two things? The writer changed his mind and realized he had to retcon what happened.
OR...the writer wanted to mislead the reader.
There's really no justification for that. It's sloppy.
Was discussing this with a co-worker who is bogged down in Clash of Kings - he told me that Tyrion had just figured out who killed Jon Arryan (Tyrion's wrong - according to the Sansa chapters in Storm - that plot thread is actually built up far better in both the tv series and the books) - and how he wishes Martin would stop lolla-gagging about and get to the point. Yes, Martin is a great writer in some respects, but he has a tendency to over-write and focus far too much on things we don't need to know, while skirting over items that we do.
The TV series in some respects is far tighter and far more enjoyable. I love the TV series to bits. The only flaws I've seen in it (outside of that gratuitous sex scene) appear to be issues I had with the books.
(Hmmm...I may give up on the books entirely and stick with the tv series...far less frustrating...except, I really do want to know what happens to five characters.)
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Date: 2011-07-05 04:34 pm (UTC)