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shadowkatI think what draws me to a character is either a flaw I identify with or resonates on some level or a surprise, they surprise me, do something unexpected, yet makes total sense. I don't like black and white characters...or simple ones. It's hard to pigeon hole though.
When I think of my favorite genre characters, it's usually because they hit some weird unexplainable chord inside. It's deeply personal and woe to anyone who begrudges me my right to adore them unassailed. (ie. Like a momma tiger - I will bear my fangs and rip you to shreds, often going after your favorites to protect my own. Although, I think I've matured over the past ten years...and am less likely to do it now. I actually shrugged off an anti-(one of fav characters) post on my flist this past week. And have multiple times in the past. Because while it is lovely when people agree with us, most of the time they don't. That's when it is tough. Not letting well-meaning but annoyingly opinionated friends harsh on your squee. )
Favorite Characters...Male, Female and what have you...
* Spike...the character was always entertaining, but he didn't begin to intrigue me until Becoming, when he did an about face, and decided to save the world even if it was for himself. A trickster character, more opportunistic than really evil, he was often ambiguous in his actions. Didn't mean he didn't do horrific things. But, how he dealt with them...before, during, and after was never predictable. What appealed to me most was a hidden vulnerability beneath all the bluster, on the surface you saw the Monster. When he was introduced - it was the monster face we saw, and then it melted away to show an man who was hopelessly in love with an insane female vampire. What fascinated me most about Spike was the all too flawed human male underneath. He was the mirror opposite of Angel, who was man on the surface, monster beneath. Spike was monster on surface, man underneath. Spike's biggest crimes were human ones, while Angel's were too monsterous to be deemed human.
* Angel...this character fascinated me for odd reasons. His complete cluelessness.Uncertainity. Desire to be better, to be something else, but inability to control anything - even though he desperately wanted to. His crimes are all about the desire to control, to manipulate, to be the master puppeteer, yet like the John Cusak character in Being John Malkovich, Angel becomes the ultimate puppet and always has been - fate's, the PTB, whomever. He is a fascinating character from that perspective alone. And there's the vulnerability...the desire to believe in something greater than himself, but his own arrogance, vanity, pride and self-absorption makes it impossible. Even if that something greater is merely "Love". Instead he becomes the monster that he fears.
*John Crichton - the brilliant and yet niave scientist and explorer. John T. Kirk, except without the Enterprise and in a violent world. Pop culture his only weapon. His mind his greatest asset, yet he begins to lose it...suffering under the weight of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and prolonged exposure to violence and war. Like Angel he desires to believe in something more, like Spike...he uses bravado and pop culture quips to pretend he does not care. One of the most complex characters I've seen in Sci-Fi. Capable of horrific and wonderful things at the same time.
* Scott Summers/Lee Adama - the achingly square heroes who in some respects are different versions of the Angel character. Characters aching for an absentee father's approval. Who are self-righteous in their pursuits, yet often blind to the results. Of the three Scott is possibly the most redeemable and the easiest to like, and the most two-dimensional but then he's only really been examined between the pages of a graphic novel or comic book. Lee Adama may well be the most well written, or actualized - the fighter pilot, Mr. Dudly Do-Right, who becomes a lawyer, breaks his own heart...falling for the rogue pilot, who is his best friend and his brother's widow.
* Aeryn Sun...another tough character, with a vulnerable underbelly. I tend to like them for some reason. I feel the same about Emma Swan, Caroline from Vamp Diaries, Katrina from Vamp Diaries, Tara from True Blood, and Veronica Mars. The tough gals, not victims. They aren't the victimized girl trope popularized by writers such as Joss Whedon, Luc Besson, and Steig Larsson amongst others. Not tiny. Not male-made assassins. They haven't been raped to my knowledge (except for Tara and Veronica Mars but they were both that way before). They are their own creations or to an extent the creations of society. Snarky and tough, with that underbelly of vulnerability underneath. I add Kalinda Sharma from the Good Wife to this list.
*Tyrion and Jamie Lannister - in Game of Thrones (or more appropriately Storm of Swords) - again surprising characters, much like Rumplestilskin in Once Upon a Time or for that matter the devlish Logan on Veronica Mars, Gabriel Mann's Nolan on Revenge, or the ever snarky Starbuck aka Kara Thrace on BSG...characters who deal with life by laughing at it, snarking at it, not taking it too seriously. Power they see, but scoff at. Devilish and wild. Biting their thumbs at everyone around them. I wouldn't like them in real life, but in makebelieve they are entertaining.
*Doctor Who - the madman behind the tardis, flying through space on a whim, half-nuts. Unpredictable, yet brilliantly charming. Who does not know how to drive. What he knows fascinates, what he doesn't makes him...oddly loveable.
*Doctor River Song...Doctor Who's female counterpart and perhaps the closest we'll come to a female version. The femme fatal who isn't. A subversion of the noir trope in three part harmony. She defies description. A wild child with the ability to flip through time, yet causes little damage...more to herself than anyone else. In love with an impossible man - her counterpart, yet outside her realm. As she is his. A liar by birth, but honest to a fault. Contradictions abound. And perhaps the craziest of the Doctor's erstwhile companions. Making Captain Jack and Captain John look rather dull and staid in comparison.
*Frodo ...the hobbit who failed. What always intrigued me most about Frodo is that he does in the end fail in his quest. It is Gollum of all people and things that saves him and the world. The ring can congeuor even the purest and simplest of souls, as is well foreshadowed by Bilbo Baggins. Absolute power or the promise of it corrupts all beings...small or large...Tolkien warns. Be wary of it. Frodo in all his complexity...remains a haunting figure to this day, not because he succeeded in his war with evil but because he failed...in some respects, it is a far more humbling lesson.
*Female characters are hard to find at times...one has to search one's brain to think of them, feels wrong somehow...but all I see are the mothers and daughters and sisters and wives...I think Diane and Alicia Florek would be amongst them, for neither are really just sisters, mothers, or friends...they are strong women in their own right and in the Good Wife, they rule the stage. It's not the men that shine so much as the women. Who hold their own. Diane with her brittle and clear eyed edge, choosing career first and brazingly so. And Alicia who juggles mother and career woman and does break a sweat...making her all the more human as a result.
What I need in a good character is complexity, but also something that rings true, feels real, hits me inside. Makes me want more. To see what happens next. Rialyn(sp??) in Justified, the lead character played by Timothy Olyphant...is not what you'd expect, he's not the black and white marshal of the Western landscape. And his best bud and outlaw who makes his life hell at every turn, continues to mesmerize. Or in The Wire, the chaotic good cheer of the charming Det. Jimmy McNulty, played beautifully by Dominic West in an unrecognizable Baltimore accent. He mesmerizes...with his desire to buck the system, but more often than not devastated by the results, stating in hollow pain..what the fuck did I do..far too late for it to matter. While there are certainly more outlandish and memorable characters...such as Butters or Omar, McNulty haunts me the most...because he is in effect a cautionary tale much like Frodo Baggins in Lord of the Rings...no Harry Potter or even a Bunny Colvin...McNulty is interesting because he fails not because he wins.
It is often those that fail...and fall that are the most interesting to me, for they are the most real and human. Not the anti-heroes who kick people and then die bloody, too easy I think. Or the irreedeemable anti-heroes who start out as jerks and well only give a hint at being redeemed, only to be jerks again. No...it's the good blokes, the people who are good at heart, who try, and try hard and fall...that resonate the most and seem the most real. Then get up and try again. The Lee Adamas, Scott Summers, Spike, Angel, Aeryn Sun, John Crichton, even Buffy Summers...who look at the man or woman in the mirror, stare them in the eye..and try much like Jimmy McNulty and Frodo...or even poor old Veronica Mars, to somehow make sense of it all.
When I think of my favorite genre characters, it's usually because they hit some weird unexplainable chord inside. It's deeply personal and woe to anyone who begrudges me my right to adore them unassailed. (ie. Like a momma tiger - I will bear my fangs and rip you to shreds, often going after your favorites to protect my own. Although, I think I've matured over the past ten years...and am less likely to do it now. I actually shrugged off an anti-(one of fav characters) post on my flist this past week. And have multiple times in the past. Because while it is lovely when people agree with us, most of the time they don't. That's when it is tough. Not letting well-meaning but annoyingly opinionated friends harsh on your squee. )
Favorite Characters...Male, Female and what have you...
* Spike...the character was always entertaining, but he didn't begin to intrigue me until Becoming, when he did an about face, and decided to save the world even if it was for himself. A trickster character, more opportunistic than really evil, he was often ambiguous in his actions. Didn't mean he didn't do horrific things. But, how he dealt with them...before, during, and after was never predictable. What appealed to me most was a hidden vulnerability beneath all the bluster, on the surface you saw the Monster. When he was introduced - it was the monster face we saw, and then it melted away to show an man who was hopelessly in love with an insane female vampire. What fascinated me most about Spike was the all too flawed human male underneath. He was the mirror opposite of Angel, who was man on the surface, monster beneath. Spike was monster on surface, man underneath. Spike's biggest crimes were human ones, while Angel's were too monsterous to be deemed human.
* Angel...this character fascinated me for odd reasons. His complete cluelessness.Uncertainity. Desire to be better, to be something else, but inability to control anything - even though he desperately wanted to. His crimes are all about the desire to control, to manipulate, to be the master puppeteer, yet like the John Cusak character in Being John Malkovich, Angel becomes the ultimate puppet and always has been - fate's, the PTB, whomever. He is a fascinating character from that perspective alone. And there's the vulnerability...the desire to believe in something greater than himself, but his own arrogance, vanity, pride and self-absorption makes it impossible. Even if that something greater is merely "Love". Instead he becomes the monster that he fears.
*John Crichton - the brilliant and yet niave scientist and explorer. John T. Kirk, except without the Enterprise and in a violent world. Pop culture his only weapon. His mind his greatest asset, yet he begins to lose it...suffering under the weight of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and prolonged exposure to violence and war. Like Angel he desires to believe in something more, like Spike...he uses bravado and pop culture quips to pretend he does not care. One of the most complex characters I've seen in Sci-Fi. Capable of horrific and wonderful things at the same time.
* Scott Summers/Lee Adama - the achingly square heroes who in some respects are different versions of the Angel character. Characters aching for an absentee father's approval. Who are self-righteous in their pursuits, yet often blind to the results. Of the three Scott is possibly the most redeemable and the easiest to like, and the most two-dimensional but then he's only really been examined between the pages of a graphic novel or comic book. Lee Adama may well be the most well written, or actualized - the fighter pilot, Mr. Dudly Do-Right, who becomes a lawyer, breaks his own heart...falling for the rogue pilot, who is his best friend and his brother's widow.
* Aeryn Sun...another tough character, with a vulnerable underbelly. I tend to like them for some reason. I feel the same about Emma Swan, Caroline from Vamp Diaries, Katrina from Vamp Diaries, Tara from True Blood, and Veronica Mars. The tough gals, not victims. They aren't the victimized girl trope popularized by writers such as Joss Whedon, Luc Besson, and Steig Larsson amongst others. Not tiny. Not male-made assassins. They haven't been raped to my knowledge (except for Tara and Veronica Mars but they were both that way before). They are their own creations or to an extent the creations of society. Snarky and tough, with that underbelly of vulnerability underneath. I add Kalinda Sharma from the Good Wife to this list.
*Tyrion and Jamie Lannister - in Game of Thrones (or more appropriately Storm of Swords) - again surprising characters, much like Rumplestilskin in Once Upon a Time or for that matter the devlish Logan on Veronica Mars, Gabriel Mann's Nolan on Revenge, or the ever snarky Starbuck aka Kara Thrace on BSG...characters who deal with life by laughing at it, snarking at it, not taking it too seriously. Power they see, but scoff at. Devilish and wild. Biting their thumbs at everyone around them. I wouldn't like them in real life, but in makebelieve they are entertaining.
*Doctor Who - the madman behind the tardis, flying through space on a whim, half-nuts. Unpredictable, yet brilliantly charming. Who does not know how to drive. What he knows fascinates, what he doesn't makes him...oddly loveable.
*Doctor River Song...Doctor Who's female counterpart and perhaps the closest we'll come to a female version. The femme fatal who isn't. A subversion of the noir trope in three part harmony. She defies description. A wild child with the ability to flip through time, yet causes little damage...more to herself than anyone else. In love with an impossible man - her counterpart, yet outside her realm. As she is his. A liar by birth, but honest to a fault. Contradictions abound. And perhaps the craziest of the Doctor's erstwhile companions. Making Captain Jack and Captain John look rather dull and staid in comparison.
*Frodo ...the hobbit who failed. What always intrigued me most about Frodo is that he does in the end fail in his quest. It is Gollum of all people and things that saves him and the world. The ring can congeuor even the purest and simplest of souls, as is well foreshadowed by Bilbo Baggins. Absolute power or the promise of it corrupts all beings...small or large...Tolkien warns. Be wary of it. Frodo in all his complexity...remains a haunting figure to this day, not because he succeeded in his war with evil but because he failed...in some respects, it is a far more humbling lesson.
*Female characters are hard to find at times...one has to search one's brain to think of them, feels wrong somehow...but all I see are the mothers and daughters and sisters and wives...I think Diane and Alicia Florek would be amongst them, for neither are really just sisters, mothers, or friends...they are strong women in their own right and in the Good Wife, they rule the stage. It's not the men that shine so much as the women. Who hold their own. Diane with her brittle and clear eyed edge, choosing career first and brazingly so. And Alicia who juggles mother and career woman and does break a sweat...making her all the more human as a result.
What I need in a good character is complexity, but also something that rings true, feels real, hits me inside. Makes me want more. To see what happens next. Rialyn(sp??) in Justified, the lead character played by Timothy Olyphant...is not what you'd expect, he's not the black and white marshal of the Western landscape. And his best bud and outlaw who makes his life hell at every turn, continues to mesmerize. Or in The Wire, the chaotic good cheer of the charming Det. Jimmy McNulty, played beautifully by Dominic West in an unrecognizable Baltimore accent. He mesmerizes...with his desire to buck the system, but more often than not devastated by the results, stating in hollow pain..what the fuck did I do..far too late for it to matter. While there are certainly more outlandish and memorable characters...such as Butters or Omar, McNulty haunts me the most...because he is in effect a cautionary tale much like Frodo Baggins in Lord of the Rings...no Harry Potter or even a Bunny Colvin...McNulty is interesting because he fails not because he wins.
It is often those that fail...and fall that are the most interesting to me, for they are the most real and human. Not the anti-heroes who kick people and then die bloody, too easy I think. Or the irreedeemable anti-heroes who start out as jerks and well only give a hint at being redeemed, only to be jerks again. No...it's the good blokes, the people who are good at heart, who try, and try hard and fall...that resonate the most and seem the most real. Then get up and try again. The Lee Adamas, Scott Summers, Spike, Angel, Aeryn Sun, John Crichton, even Buffy Summers...who look at the man or woman in the mirror, stare them in the eye..and try much like Jimmy McNulty and Frodo...or even poor old Veronica Mars, to somehow make sense of it all.
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no subject
Date: 2011-12-08 03:05 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-12-08 01:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-12-08 08:17 pm (UTC)Mr. Spock
Data
Dexter
(because I identify with them in the weirdest ways).
no subject
Date: 2011-12-08 08:22 pm (UTC)I think what draws me to a character is either a flaw I identify with or resonates on some level or a surprise, they surprise me, do something unexpected, yet makes total sense. I don't like black and white characters...or simple ones. It's hard to pigeon hole though.
When I think of my favorite genre characters, it's usually because they hit some weird unexplainable chord inside. It's deeply personal and woe to anyone who begrudges me my right to adore them unassailed.
All of this. It's often hard to pinpoint, but I can pull out various traits... and yet they often seem contradictory, and something which is a strength in one favourite character is a flaw in another... Yet I know which are *mine*, absolutely.
He was the mirror opposite of Angel, who was man on the surface, monster beneath. Spike was monster on surface, man underneath.
Love this thought, as well as all your musings on Angel himself. My Spike-love, incidentally, is easy to explain, but when it comes to people disliking Angel I often get terribly tangled up, because the things that (for them) make him unlikeable, are what endear him to me. It's very odd.
Doctor River Song...Doctor Who's female counterpart and perhaps the closest we'll come to a female version. The femme fatal who isn't. A subversion of the noir trope in three part harmony. She defies description.
River is the Spike of the Whoniverse. (Spike is Buffy's male counterpart, and the closest we get to a male Slayer.) I have a meta post half-written on this subject so I won't elaborate here. (I'd never stop. *g*)
Not the anti-heroes who kick people and then die bloody, too easy I think. Or the irreedeemable anti-heroes who start out as jerks and well only give a hint at being redeemed, only to be jerks again. No...it's the good blokes, the people who are good at heart, who try, and try hard and fall...that resonate the most and seem the most real.
*nods a lot* Going back to Angel, then I think this is why I like him so much. Angel wants to be good, but he doesn't really know how. So he tries and fails and screws up and says 'Screw it, I don't care' - yet he *does*, really, deep down. He is just useless at it.
Anyway must run, but just realised that I forgot to mention Frodo, and how much I agree with you. Although I think if the story has a hero, it's Sam.
ETA: Of my own personal favourites, I'd have to add the Master (because he's the Doctor's dark mirror and I find his brokenness compelling and interesting), and Captain Jack and Ianto. (deep sigh)
no subject
Date: 2011-12-08 11:15 pm (UTC)It's what I like most about Angel as well...I liked Angel quite a bit in Angel the Series, specifically S4 & 5, and the tail end of S3 where he was at his darkest. And Angel in S2 Buffy and in certain episodes of S3 Buffy - similar resonance. Here's a man attempting to not fall into the abyss, not to give in to the monster that has always resided inside him. And when he falls, he does so spectacularly, and more often than not with the best of intentions.
but when it comes to people disliking Angel I often get terribly tangled up, because the things that (for them) make him unlikeable, are what endear him to me. It's very odd.
I'm somewhat the same way...I like Angel because he is an anti-hero, it's when people try to white-wash him or turn him into a romantic hero or classical hero that I get annoyed. They've shaved off what makes him interesting.
no subject
Date: 2011-12-09 04:45 pm (UTC)I used to think that feeling so emotionally invested in and protective of my favorites was because I identified so strongly with them, but I've found upon closer examination that I actually often DISLIKE people most like me in fiction. This is strange, because I'm not self-loathing at ALL. I wonder if characters that I love represent more of things I wish I could do/traits that I wish I had, and so attacks on them feel like attacks on my dreams and aspirations? I don't know. Hope to find time to do an exercise like you've done here someday.
no subject
Date: 2011-12-09 10:49 pm (UTC)I used to think that feeling so emotionally invested in and protective of my favorites was because I identified so strongly with them, but I've found upon closer examination that I actually often DISLIKE people most like me in fiction. This is strange, because I'm not self-loathing at ALL. I wonder if characters that I love represent more of things I wish I could do/traits that I wish I had, and so attacks on them feel like attacks on my dreams and aspirations?
I'm somewhat the same way. The characters that resonate the most often aren't like me at all. Rarely do I like characters that are just like me, not that I've found any or that even resemble me.
None of the characters on Buffy resembled me. I guess you can say I sort of identified with some of the attributes of Spike and Willow
(shrugs).
It's hard to know why we love what we do. And harder still to understand why others do or don't as the case may be...at least that's what I think. ;-)