NBC's crappy coverage of the Olympics and 25 Greatest Cult TV Shows

[shadowkat]

1.Olympics NBC? You screwed up in your broadcast of the Olympic Games, when you aired an inane Ryan Seacrest interview of Michael Phelps instead of this moving portrait:

http://deadspin.com/5929778/heres-the-opening-ceremony-tribute-to-terrorism-victims-nbc-doesnt-want-you-to-see

So much for the American Broadcast Media's claims of a free and independent press. The internet has become more reliable than you are, that, is why I no longer watch news on tv.
Outside of maybe NY1. Too unreliable.

Furious about this. That number was absolutely stunning and beautiful. Possibly amongst the best of the Olympic Opening Ceremonies. And most Americans never saw it. I'll never forgive NBC for this oversight. Makes me wonder how much of their broadcast of sports and other coverage is reliable.

I'm not happy with NBC's coverage of the Olympics this year. Lots of inane interviews.
And too many commercials. Plus the commentators are grating.

That said? It does make me miss Britain, particularly London. I apparently need to find a way of visiting again in the not to distant future. Last time I was there was in the 1980s, which was over 20 years ago. Needless to say I think both have changed a great deal since then, at the very least, I have. Maybe I'll go to Europe when I get vacation time and money saved instead of Costa Rica? I don't know. Don't have the time yet, at any rate.

2. Finished Duke of Shadows by Meredith Duran - one of the better written of the romance novels that I've read. But does follow the trope fairly closely. Did like the examination of racism, the historical detail on the Indian army uprising against the British in the 1800s (the British paid big time for their insane imperialistic and militaristic tendencies of the 1400s - 1800s - there's a historical lesson in that which I'm not sure the US and other countries have figured out yet.), and gender politics. The examination of gender inequalities during the 1800s is well done if a bit preachy in places. Also the examination of what art is - was intriguing.

Beginning to get burned out on this genre, so may have to jump back to Feast of Crows or read something else. Don't quite have the mental energy for non-fiction yet. Or literary.
Although am tempted to try Elizabeth Gatskill - whom I've admittedly never read or Thackery, who I also have not read. Have two books by Thackery on my Kindle saved along with Dickens Bleak House. Truth is I want pulpy page turners right now that aren't that violent, somewhat fluffy and I can easily forget after I finish them but capture my attention while I'm reading. And require little to no mental energy.

3. EW has a list of the 25 Greatest Cult TV Shows - which I don't agree with. We admittedly have different definitions of cult tv. They are going by "popular tv" shows or shows with heavy fandoms and complex worlds. I go by under-the-wire shows that most people haven't heard of. And never get awards. With heavy fandoms and complex worlds.

Here's their list, I've bolded the ones that I've seen. And stricken out the ones that I don't think belong on this list because they don't fit my definition of cult which is admittedly narrower than EW's. Not that I'm an expert on cult or anything, far from it, but since when do you have to be an expert to create a list? (Don't answer that.) Also EW's list is regrettably a bit too American for its own good.

[ETA: This is the Print Edition List not the online edition list which for reasons that escape me are completely different. I actually agree more with the online edition list, although it too has some odd choices. X-Files is too popular to be cult. And I'm not sure The Comeback deserves to be there over Bab 5. ]

* Bold what you have seen.
* Strike out the shows that don't belong on the list. (explain why - ie for me they don't fit my definition of cult.) (My criteria for cult? Intense fandom, creative world, under the wire or not recognized by mainstream media very often or doesn't get emmys or awards. The show you tell people about and they have no idea what you are talking about.)
* Substitute a TV show for everyone that you removed.

1. Buffy the Vampire Series
2. Arrested Development
3. Mystery Science Theater 3000
4. The X-Files - Replaced with Doctor Who. X-Files is a mainstream American Sci-Fi series that got Emmy's and everyone watched.
5. The Wire
6. It's Always Sunny in Philadephia (eh, I've seen a few episodes but not enough for bold)
7. Star Trek the Next Generation - too popular, too known, too many movies, and nominated for emmy's, not cult any more than Star Wars is. Deep Space Nine
8. The Comeback
9. My So-Called Life
10. Lost - see X-Files and STNG. Babylon 5
11. Firefly
12.Twin Peaks
13. Veronica Mars
14. Battlestar Galatica
15. Community - not sure if this fits, it got nominated and mainstream knows it exists. Be a bit like nominating the Office or Big Bang Theory. No, I'd replace with Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy - a British Series that aired on PBS in the 70s and 80s. or maybe Red Dwarf - another British Series. [ Been persuaded that it fits by the avid Community fans on flist.]
16. Undeclared [ETA - oblivious to, so can't comment.]
17. Fringe
18. Wonder Showzen (never heard of)
19. Supernatural
20. Popular
21. Party Down (see Undeclared)
22. Farscape - I'd put this higher than Firefly, but what do I know.
23. Better off Ted - makes more sense than Community. (See Community)
24. Archer
25. Pushing Daisies

A lot of these are too young for me. I'd put Profit and Vampire Diaries on the list. As well as Star Gate and Smallville - which had sizable cult fandoms. Also, Angel is missing.
As is, Forever Knight - which is amongst the best vampire cult series out there. Then there is Louis, and The Walking Dead (although I'm not sure that's really cult either).
Dollhouse is definitely cult. Although not deserving a space on the list, admittedly.
What else...there are so many and I'm tired. I know American Gothic. But it's a one season wonder, so maybe not. I'd also substitute a few British series in here such as Misfits - which is actually more cult than Smallville. The Canadian series - Being Erica, better than The Comeback. And maybe Little Britain or Ballykissangel - which my parents got hooked on. Another one missing is The Monkees - although that may have been too popular?
Not sure.

What do you think?

Comments

[flameraven.livejournal.com]

Haven't watched any of the Olympics-- I attempted to see if there was online streaming of the events (it's 2012, this should be a given, right?), but unfortunately the only stream seems to be NBC's and it requires you to, you know, actually have TV. Ugh. It reeks of greedy TV companies who want to force you to go through them. If I had TV, I would watch the Olympics on TV. Ugh.

I feel like Community probably should be on the cult TV list. It has a dedicated fandom but not nearly as large an audience as Big Bang Theory or the Office. Which is why it nearly got canceled after S3 and will probably get canceled after the short season 4. No one seems to be familiar with it, but everyone I've shown it to has fallen instantly in love. So I don't know.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Odd, I thought they'd made it available on the net as well.

Yeah, I've begun to be swayed on Community...my difficulty was it felt too popular and visible to be cult - coming out of the box well, then diminishing.
But it does work within the definitions provided - small but loyal following, high visibility of fandom, struggling to stay on the air, and below mainstream radar.

[eilowyn.livejournal.com]

I recently decided that I want to write my Master's thesis on gender in cult television, so I expect to spend the first ten pages discussing what cult television is, exactly. I've found this quote by British TV critic Jeff Evans (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1477234.stm), which I found enlightening, though his examples are slightly dated and very British:

"Asked about the definition of 'cult' television, Evans told the Daily Mail: 'It is hard to define a cult but it is more than just getting good viewing figures. Cults engender a devoted following and go beyond mere popularity.

'They set fads and fashions, generate merchandise, inspire fan clubs and conventions or pervade the national consciousness to some degree,' Evans said.

He added: 'Sometimes they can be immensely popular too, such as Only Fools and Horses which gets tremendous viewing figures but does inspire conventions of fans who meet in pubs called the Nag's Head and wander round dressed as their favourite characters.'"

On to the list (and if I recall correctly, it was top 25 of the last 25 years):

1. Buffy the Vampire Series - (#1 favorite show of all time)
2. Arrested Development - (#3 favorite show of all time and #1 favorite comedy)
3. Mystery Science Theater 3000 - (Never seen, which is probably blasphemy)
4. The X-Files - (While I agree with EW that The X-Files is a cult show, my outrage that Doctor Who didn't make the list knows no bounds)
5. The Wire - (In the process of watching)
6. It's Always Sunny in Philadephia - (I've seen two episodes. Does not belong in the top 10 when Firefly is down at 11)
7. Star Trek the Next Generation - (another one I've never seen. Blasphemy!)
8. The Comeback - (and here's another one that may have a cult following but does not belong in the top 10)
9. My So-Called Life
10. Lost - (It's got a cult following and I'm one of the people who drank the kool-aid.)
11. Firefly - (belongs much higher up on this list)
12.Twin Peaks - (in the process of watching)
13. Veronica Mars
14. Battlestar Galatica - (another one that belongs in the top 10)
15. Community - (again, I'm a member of the cult)
16. Undeclared - (I'd replace it with Judd Aptow/Paul Feig's earlier show Freaks and Geeks)
17. Fringe
18. Wonder Showzen
19. Supernatural
20. Popular
21. Party Down
22. Farscape - (this is the one where everyone goes "YOU HAVEN'T SEEN FARSCAPE?!)
23. Better off Ted - (I don't think this one has much of a following; perhaps replace it with Sherlock? The JohnLock shippers alone have their own cult)
24. Archer
25. Pushing Daisies - (Cute, but I likes Wonderfalls more).

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

You have a broader definition of cult than I do.

But you define it the same way that EW does. I'm going to google cult and see what I find. Okay found something..I tend to come at from a film perspective, because that's what I was taught:

The Somewhat Longer But More Precise Definition With Examples:

A cult film is defined through a variety of combinations that include four major elements:

Anatomy: the film itself – its features: content, style, format, and generic modes.
Consumption: the ways in which it is received – the audience reactions, fan celebrations, and critical receptions.
Political Economy: the financial and physical conditions of presence of the film – its ownerships, intentions, promotions, channels of presentation, and the spaces and times of its exhibition.
Cultural status: the way in which a cult film fits a time or region – how it comments on its surroundings, by complying, exploiting, critiquing, or offending.

We do not propose that all of these elements need to be fulfilled together. But we do suggest that each of them is of high significance in what makes a film cult.


http://www.cultographies.com/definition.shtml

Or:

‘Cult’ as in a relatively small but dedicated following.

[Which is why Firefly fits but Star Wars and Star Trek don't - too large a following.]

http://cultdefinition.com/60/cult-fiction

And finally here:



But what exactly is cult TV? By dictionary definition `cult` is set apart from the mainstream. Cult programmes are objects of special devotion. Cult TV is often distinguished by its high style, its innovative subject matter (such as improved roles for women), its sexual outrageousness, or its uncompromising political stance. All this means that cult TV often succeeds only after a troubled start. First the TV executives, then the audiences are slow to catch on. A number of cult programmes only survived because of campaigns by devotees.

To help us distinguish cult TV from normal programming, you need to look at audience engagement. Nearly all entertainment programmes attract three different kinds of viewers who can be categorised in terms of engagement: casual viewers, devoted viewers, and avid fans.

Casual viewers will attend to a show if they happen to be watching TV but do not experience the show as a "special event". For the casual viewer, the show is part of the flow of television and not something that requires rapt attention nor prompts adjustments in the viewer's schedule of activities in order to tune in.

Devoted viewers will make arrangements to watch every episode of their favourite show. For the devoted viewer, a favourite show is a "special event" that disrupts the flow of television and inspires more intense levels of identification and attention than typical television fare. However, though the devoted viewer may read occasional articles about the show or talk about it with their friends, their involvement with the show falls short of fanaticism.

Avid fans will not only take special pains to watch every episode of the show but, today, will tape the episodes so that they can review them or even archive them. The show is not only a "special event" but also a major source of self-definition, a kind of quasi-religious experience. Avid fans enthusiastically purchase or consume ancillary texts related to the programme and often join interpretive communities that have formed around the show, such as fan clubs and online discussion groups. Though the availability of such groups in cyberspace has made the recruitment process somewhat easier, it is still difficult for a new show to build "cult" interpretive communities from scratch. Therefore, most new shows hoping to cultivate a cult following tend to appeal to existing interpretive communities, particularly the large umbrella of sci-fi fandom which has in place an infrastructure of fanzines, newsgroups, and conventions.

Virtually every TV show has some viewers in each of the three engagement categories. What distinguishes cult shows from typical fare is that a relatively large percentage of the viewers are avid fans and that these fans have relatively high visibility compared to the avid fans of other shows.



http://www.culttv.plus.com/whatis.html

[dlgood.livejournal.com]

If Veronica Mars and Vampire Diaries are "Cult" shows, I don't see why Community wouldn't be.

For all it's acclaim on, for example, the Onion AV Club, Community wins no awards and has uniformly terrible ratings. If Community's profile were exactly the same, but it ran on Cable instead of NBC, would you consider it "cult" ...

The one on this list I buy the least is "The Comeback" -- was anybody ever talking about that show?

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

You may have swayed me on Community. What I could not decide is if it wasn't too popular for the list? It got nominated for an emmy twice (prior to the invasion of all the cable series). And it feels at times a bit too much like South Park - which I don't really see as cult either - due to it's popularity.

But you are right...it has fallen below the radar and seems less popular now.

I don't know about Undeclared, The Comeback, or Wonder Showzen...since I've never heard of them or seen them. So can't comment. ;-)

Eh...no, doesn't matter if its on cable or a regular broadcast network channel, although less likely to be cult if on broadcast network since higher visibility.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

I'm curious where you got this list. It's very different from the list here: http://www.ew.com/ew/gallery/0,,20304619_20670535,00.html#20670920

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

The August 3rd, 2012 Print Edition with Doctor Who on the Cover.
Issue #1218.

Haven't seen the online list. Didn't know there was one or it was different from the print edition. How odd. Yet in keeping with the way my day has been going.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Just checked out your link, very odd. It is completely different than the print edition. I decided to ask why. Not that I'll get a response. Maybe they just had a huge fight and compromised?

At any rate I agree more with the online list than the print list...although, I'm not sure I'd categorize Chuck as cult, not a strong enough following, but what do I know?

The Prisoner - definitely.

[liliaeth]

Well I personally wouldn't put Firefly on the list at all, well maybe at the last place. But then I thought the show sucked and the actors were so boring I had trouble remembering their characters name. There was just nothing interesting about it at all. Even 'the Cape' was better than Firefly.

I personally would have much rather seen Terminator: the Sarah Connor Chronicles in the list, which was pretty much awesome television, and which really did deserve a third season.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I agree with you about Firefly. I can see its inclusion based on it having a cult. But it was short short-lived as to never have developed all that much. But, personally, I always come down on thinking thatthe world-building was terrible and I never "got" what was supposed to be particularly good about the series... and I'll watch almost anything genre. It wouldn't even crack my top 50 of sci-fi/genre shows.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

I agree. Even if I thought Firefly was great (and I don't), there was only half a season. I can't see how half a season can compete with other entire series.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Objectively, speaking...

If you define cult as a tv series that is below the wire (aka not popular with traditional or mainstream or mass viewers), has a voracious fandom which has managed to make the series last long past its expiration date, and has a complex mythology/language/etc.

Then yes, it fits.

* Firefly not only lives on in reruns (it's all over cable, been on Syfy, Science Channel, BBCAmerica, amongst others), but it also had heavy DVD sales, and a major motion picture made as closure.
* Voracious fandom - the reason it lives on in reruns, and had a major motion picture made not to mention various comic books.
* Complex mythology...yep, so complex a lot of people couldn't follow it. (LOL!) Although this isn't as necessary as the first two requirements.

It made it to the top of the list for those reasons. Whether you liked it or not, irrelevant. The cancellation - actually aids in its cult status.

Note cult does NOT equal popular culture.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

I agree it's cult. I'm just skeptical of why it gets rated so high. But I'm not exactly unbiased on that score.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Yeah, well, I'm ambivalent to be honest. I liked Firefly more than you did, but wouldn't call myself a fan of it.

(basically my Whedon likes are: Buffy, Firefly, Angel, Dollhouse, the movies, X-men comics, sugar shock...)

But my flist? Half the Whedon fans love love love Firefly, half hate hate hate Firefly. So, I don't discuss it much.

Does have a voracious fandom though - rivals the Trekkies, actually.
Not everyone loves Trek either.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

Just shows again that the only time mainstream Americans give a crap about foreign victims of terrorism is when they want to denounce us for not hating Muslims enough.

[dlgood.livejournal.com]

Just because the chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee is Peter King (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_T._King#Support_for_the_IRA)....

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

And NBC is corporate owned by GE and has all sorts of nasty little sponsors..

Be a bit like blaming mainstream Brits for News of the World's debacle.

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid I'm not that interested in the Olympics... I did want to see the Opening Ceremonies but we got back from the beach kind of late (so we missed the beginning) and there were too many ads (and too much Ryan Seacreast).

That cult list is interesting... there are a lot I've never heard of (many of which are from times I didn't have a TV set).
There are a lot of British TV shows I would add, like 'Misfits' and 'Bits of Fry and Laurie'.
And some US TV shows from my day, like 'Soap' and 'Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman'. Or from even earlier: 'That Was The Week That Was'.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Not sure the later shows qualify as cult. See definitions on the thread above, but skip over the Firefly discussion.

Mary Hartman Mary Hartman maybe. But not That Was The Week That Was or Bits of Fry and Laurie.

You have to have a voracious fandom, low ratings, and a mythos of some sort.

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

Well as I recall TW3 (which is what 'That Was The Week That Was' was called by the few people watching it) was only on the air for a short time because of extremely low ratings... but of course it was also on at a weirdly early hour (as though it's natural competition was the evening news). It was a weirdly liberally biased show that was always skirting the edge.... so from my POV it fits. But of course we all take different POVs, certainly it's fandom wasn't voracious (but people like me have never found anything like it... altho SNL's weekend up date tries), at least not at the time, but I think Tom Lehrer fans remember it (and THEY are pretty voracious) as the one time Lehrer's work really got some play on TV.

But yeah, I'm not bothering to do the list because it isn't worth it to me to worry about what is 'cult' and what doesn't qualify.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Whatever floats your boat. ;-)