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shadowkat1. Pardon me, while I whine briefly about two problems I have with the information age/tech revolution:
* Disposable software and gadgets, plus the constant necessity of having to up grade everything. I can't quite decide if the constant up-grading causing the gadgets to fail quicker or they were just made that way.
* As time progresses, people become lazier and lazier in regards to writing and communication skills. Also information is starting to feel more like misinformation or in some cases gibberish. Was attempting to read a Good Reads discussion thread today and got a headache from the people texting from iphones: "it lok ike tis. omg. so funny. u r cool. lol. yes. great. tis teh book. no no cant wait por sequl. " [Imagine trying to read paragraphs of that?] Meanwhile they are saying: "riter cant write bad writing ould ike better if had editor u know at story fine lol & yes i don't write well not doing it money moar idek bamf writer."[I truly feel sorry for anyone who has English as second or third language.] [ETC: Shorthand and internet shorthand or text speak is really hard for anyone who has a type of dyslexia to interpret. You are constantly re-reading the words. There's no breaks. No commas. No capitalization. And the words are abbreviations. If you aren't a native English speaker, it's difficult to translate. This is why Tumblr and many discussion forums annoy me. I see it less on livejournal, for some reason.]
Sigh. Instead of handwriting they need to teach people how to type legibly on smartphones with their thumbs.
Was very tempted to ask...if I can't understand what you've written is there any point in you writing it? Sort of like - if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound.
2. Buffy fandom ponderings.
* Buffy fandom pondering Part I:
This plot-line bothers me: "Buffy should have died at the hand of the Master. The fact she didn't, is why Angel slept with her, lost his soul, and did not heroically stop Acathla, and instead brought Acathla into being. Instead Buffy screwed things up. The PTB decided that was okay, Angel would just manipulate Buffy into sleeping with him later and together they would bring about a new universe, a paradise, to replace the old damaged one. Jasmine rebelled against the PTB and tried to create that paradise on earth. Buffy screwed things up by not dying at the hands of the Master." (Actually Xander screwed things up by saving her, but never mind.) [ETC: While this plotline or something similar was posted on a post on my flist, and I admittedly quoted from that, it's a plotline that bothered me prior to reading that post and I'd seen in a various other discussions and began regrettably to see in the comics. That's why I'm discussing it.]
I guess you can analyze it one of two ways:
a) Buffy made her on destiny and didn't follow the Powers plan or God's plan. And God kept trying to manipulate Buffy into doing what God wanted and to live out the plan God made.
Sort of a metaphor for a father getting frustrated with his kids for not doing what he wants, or more apt - a writer getting annoyed with several lead characters who keep messing with his plotline.
b)Buffy was supposed to be the good little girl who died at the hands of her male master.
She doesn't. The big male hero was supposed to save the day. She does instead by driving a sword through his heart. He's brought back to teach her the error of her ways, and bring in a new universe with her. She screws things up by killing their child or abandoning it (the new universe) and magic has left the world.
Depending on which way you analyze that plot-line, may depend a great deal on whether you can watch anything Whedon writes or produces in the future.
I have issues with both analyses...because (a) is somewhat myopic or narrowly focused, in that theme, the individual is the center of his/her universe, the universe revolves around them, there aren't a million variables, lives, etc that could influence it. I think a writer who forgets that loses his/her story. If the story is in only one point of view, that myopic lense works, but if it isn't... Also from a plotting standpoint, it feels sloppy. I wish I could clarify why. It bugs me. But I can't quite explain it. Certainly not well enough to enter into a debate over it. (b) I just find incredibly offensive and gender biased. It reinforces the view that women are infants or brood mares or animals, while men are gods...and I don't buy that. And it also feels patronizing. Particularly from a writer who states he is a feminist. Luckily, I don't think (b) holds up under a microscope. Too many contradictions. If this was Whedon's intent...then why make Angel such a puppet, and why have Spike and Faith's arcs typify the series. Faith and Spike are in a way the existentialist heroes of the piece as is to a degree Buffy. Also, what's going on with Willow? Who is shown as putting magic above all things and paying for it dearly. No, I don't think it's quite that neat or clear-cut.
Anyhow the plotline bugs me. I don't like it. Which is why I'll throw out my Buffy S8 comics eventually, and not continue with the series past Chosen/Not Fade Away. The series is good up until Chosen/Not Fade Away - past that point it sort of crumbles for me.
This is actually true of most tv serials. TV shows really don't do well past 5-7 seasons.
Go past that marker, and things get wonky, mainly because the writers experience burn-out and start doing wonky things with the plot and characters to amuse themselves. You try to plot out 22 books in a series each year and see how well you do. This is true with novels as well, by about the 7th or 8th book, I begin to lose interest and wonder about the writer. It's rare that I stick with a novel series past five books. Very rare.
Here's a short list:
Chronicals of Narnia
Harry Potter
PG Wodehouse Jeeves and Wooster
LM Montgomery's Anne of Green Gables
Little House on the Prarie books
Kim Harrison's Rachel Morgan Series
Jim Butcher's Dresden Series.
(Dorothy Dunnett's Lymond series was only 5 books, I think. His Dark Materials - 3, Lord of the Rings (if you include the Hobbit) - four, Song of Ice and Fire...currently 5 books and my interest is waning.)
TV series? (Series I've stuck with that were on for more than 5 seasons)
(Daytime Soap operas do not count, since they are wonky normally)
Buffy - 7 seasons
West Wing (gave up, came back)
ER (gave up, came back - I gave up after Carter left, came back when he returned for the final season)
Grey's Anatomy (almost gave up twice)
Angel - 6 seasons
Homicide Life on the Streets
MASH
Hill Street Blues
Cheers (gave up, came back for the final season)
LA LAw (gave up, came back)
* Buffy fandom pondering part II:
I'm trying to remember what I thought during Buffy S6. I know I figured out that Spike was not trying to get his chip removed - because it made no logical sense that he'd do that.
So I became convinced he was going to become human - mainly because I felt the vampire with a soul routine had been done to death. Also I knew they couldn't redeem Spike without giving him a soul. I admittedly was disappointed when I found out he got a soul and didn't become human. I got spoiled - someone on Buffy Cross and Stake spoiled me. I don't know who it was - they sent me an email with cloaked spoilers, and I got curious.
At any rate, it bewilders me that other's couldn't see that. In retrospect, I find Willow's story less interesting and more cliche ridden than I had at the time. I also see more and more parallels to the Celluiod Closet or Angry Lesbian Cliche, mainly because I'm more educated on the trope now than I was back then. (Thank you, Internet). Can a fandom change how you view a tv series? Yes, fortunately or unfortunately depending on your pov it can. Which is why I have mixed feelings about it. Did I enjoy Buffy more without the fandom? I can't remember. Did the fandom make me more obsessed? Definitely. And for far longer. I think I would have lost interest faster and saw more flaws sooner if it weren't for the fandom. The fandom in some respects was more interesting, far more intelligent, and definitely more creative than any of the writers, actors, etc associated with the series - time has certainly proven this to be true, if nothing else. In some respects, now, years later, I appreciate the Buffy fandom or rather the people I've met through it far more than the series it spawned.
The fandom has been supportive and caring community by and large. Just avoid certain crazy sub-factions, and you're fine.
Of the characters...the only one that has stuck to me, like glue, is Spike.Not sure why. Possibly because the character was a trope or archetype that I'd been playing with in my own writing. He is. Long before the tv series aired, I had written similar characters myself. The male hooker with the heart of gold or the male rogue with the heart of gold who on the face appears to be evil or the villain and turns out to be more complicated.
The character plays with my mind. Part of the reason for this is I don't like one dimensional villains. I don't find them real. People aren't all one thing. We can be heroes one day, sadistic creeps the next. Both possibilities/poles exist. So black and white characters tend to bore me. The Master I found incredibly dull, actually all the villains in Buffy S1 bored me, they were all somewhat one dimensional. It wasn't until S3 that we got complex villains. Sure you could S2 ...started down that path...and yes, I see the metaphor, as one gets older the villains become more complex and less black and white, as do the rules. That's why Lie to Me is such a great episode.
At any rate...I liked the characters who were complicated. With few exceptions. Acting prowess did have an effect.
3. My biggest frustration with writing is people don't read carefully enough. Myself included. It doesn't matter what I've written - people will often just zero in on one paragraph or one sentence and ignore everything surrounding it. As a result they misunderstand what I wrote completely. At work, to circumvent this occurrence, I've gotten into the habit of writing short sentences. To the point. Often just one or two. And yet, they still don't get it. It's headache inducing. And gives me a bit of a complex. Since of course, it's always my fault. (grins sheepishly).
But seriously, how many times have you read a response to something you wrote and thought, WTF? That's not what I wrote at all! How'd they come up with that??? And were just too bewildered to respond? Or so annoyed, you responded but not well? And how many times (gee this is embarrassing to admit) when you discovered, shit, I misread that post or comment completely - how did I do that?
The internet I think is part of the problem. We are writing too fast, reading too fast, and careful goes out the window. Multi-tasking up a storm. Trying to do one too many things at a time and keep track of one too many items. It's no surprise that we misread and miscommunicate or that there are so many insane misunderstandings that could have been easily avoided, if we just took the time to read and write carefully.
* Disposable software and gadgets, plus the constant necessity of having to up grade everything. I can't quite decide if the constant up-grading causing the gadgets to fail quicker or they were just made that way.
* As time progresses, people become lazier and lazier in regards to writing and communication skills. Also information is starting to feel more like misinformation or in some cases gibberish. Was attempting to read a Good Reads discussion thread today and got a headache from the people texting from iphones: "it lok ike tis. omg. so funny. u r cool. lol. yes. great. tis teh book. no no cant wait por sequl. " [Imagine trying to read paragraphs of that?] Meanwhile they are saying: "riter cant write bad writing ould ike better if had editor u know at story fine lol & yes i don't write well not doing it money moar idek bamf writer."[I truly feel sorry for anyone who has English as second or third language.] [ETC: Shorthand and internet shorthand or text speak is really hard for anyone who has a type of dyslexia to interpret. You are constantly re-reading the words. There's no breaks. No commas. No capitalization. And the words are abbreviations. If you aren't a native English speaker, it's difficult to translate. This is why Tumblr and many discussion forums annoy me. I see it less on livejournal, for some reason.]
Sigh. Instead of handwriting they need to teach people how to type legibly on smartphones with their thumbs.
Was very tempted to ask...if I can't understand what you've written is there any point in you writing it? Sort of like - if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound.
2. Buffy fandom ponderings.
* Buffy fandom pondering Part I:
This plot-line bothers me: "Buffy should have died at the hand of the Master. The fact she didn't, is why Angel slept with her, lost his soul, and did not heroically stop Acathla, and instead brought Acathla into being. Instead Buffy screwed things up. The PTB decided that was okay, Angel would just manipulate Buffy into sleeping with him later and together they would bring about a new universe, a paradise, to replace the old damaged one. Jasmine rebelled against the PTB and tried to create that paradise on earth. Buffy screwed things up by not dying at the hands of the Master." (Actually Xander screwed things up by saving her, but never mind.) [ETC: While this plotline or something similar was posted on a post on my flist, and I admittedly quoted from that, it's a plotline that bothered me prior to reading that post and I'd seen in a various other discussions and began regrettably to see in the comics. That's why I'm discussing it.]
I guess you can analyze it one of two ways:
a) Buffy made her on destiny and didn't follow the Powers plan or God's plan. And God kept trying to manipulate Buffy into doing what God wanted and to live out the plan God made.
Sort of a metaphor for a father getting frustrated with his kids for not doing what he wants, or more apt - a writer getting annoyed with several lead characters who keep messing with his plotline.
b)Buffy was supposed to be the good little girl who died at the hands of her male master.
She doesn't. The big male hero was supposed to save the day. She does instead by driving a sword through his heart. He's brought back to teach her the error of her ways, and bring in a new universe with her. She screws things up by killing their child or abandoning it (the new universe) and magic has left the world.
Depending on which way you analyze that plot-line, may depend a great deal on whether you can watch anything Whedon writes or produces in the future.
I have issues with both analyses...because (a) is somewhat myopic or narrowly focused, in that theme, the individual is the center of his/her universe, the universe revolves around them, there aren't a million variables, lives, etc that could influence it. I think a writer who forgets that loses his/her story. If the story is in only one point of view, that myopic lense works, but if it isn't... Also from a plotting standpoint, it feels sloppy. I wish I could clarify why. It bugs me. But I can't quite explain it. Certainly not well enough to enter into a debate over it. (b) I just find incredibly offensive and gender biased. It reinforces the view that women are infants or brood mares or animals, while men are gods...and I don't buy that. And it also feels patronizing. Particularly from a writer who states he is a feminist. Luckily, I don't think (b) holds up under a microscope. Too many contradictions. If this was Whedon's intent...then why make Angel such a puppet, and why have Spike and Faith's arcs typify the series. Faith and Spike are in a way the existentialist heroes of the piece as is to a degree Buffy. Also, what's going on with Willow? Who is shown as putting magic above all things and paying for it dearly. No, I don't think it's quite that neat or clear-cut.
Anyhow the plotline bugs me. I don't like it. Which is why I'll throw out my Buffy S8 comics eventually, and not continue with the series past Chosen/Not Fade Away. The series is good up until Chosen/Not Fade Away - past that point it sort of crumbles for me.
This is actually true of most tv serials. TV shows really don't do well past 5-7 seasons.
Go past that marker, and things get wonky, mainly because the writers experience burn-out and start doing wonky things with the plot and characters to amuse themselves. You try to plot out 22 books in a series each year and see how well you do. This is true with novels as well, by about the 7th or 8th book, I begin to lose interest and wonder about the writer. It's rare that I stick with a novel series past five books. Very rare.
Here's a short list:
Chronicals of Narnia
Harry Potter
PG Wodehouse Jeeves and Wooster
LM Montgomery's Anne of Green Gables
Little House on the Prarie books
Kim Harrison's Rachel Morgan Series
Jim Butcher's Dresden Series.
(Dorothy Dunnett's Lymond series was only 5 books, I think. His Dark Materials - 3, Lord of the Rings (if you include the Hobbit) - four, Song of Ice and Fire...currently 5 books and my interest is waning.)
TV series? (Series I've stuck with that were on for more than 5 seasons)
(Daytime Soap operas do not count, since they are wonky normally)
Buffy - 7 seasons
West Wing (gave up, came back)
ER (gave up, came back - I gave up after Carter left, came back when he returned for the final season)
Grey's Anatomy (almost gave up twice)
Angel - 6 seasons
Homicide Life on the Streets
MASH
Hill Street Blues
Cheers (gave up, came back for the final season)
LA LAw (gave up, came back)
* Buffy fandom pondering part II:
I'm trying to remember what I thought during Buffy S6. I know I figured out that Spike was not trying to get his chip removed - because it made no logical sense that he'd do that.
So I became convinced he was going to become human - mainly because I felt the vampire with a soul routine had been done to death. Also I knew they couldn't redeem Spike without giving him a soul. I admittedly was disappointed when I found out he got a soul and didn't become human. I got spoiled - someone on Buffy Cross and Stake spoiled me. I don't know who it was - they sent me an email with cloaked spoilers, and I got curious.
At any rate, it bewilders me that other's couldn't see that. In retrospect, I find Willow's story less interesting and more cliche ridden than I had at the time. I also see more and more parallels to the Celluiod Closet or Angry Lesbian Cliche, mainly because I'm more educated on the trope now than I was back then. (Thank you, Internet). Can a fandom change how you view a tv series? Yes, fortunately or unfortunately depending on your pov it can. Which is why I have mixed feelings about it. Did I enjoy Buffy more without the fandom? I can't remember. Did the fandom make me more obsessed? Definitely. And for far longer. I think I would have lost interest faster and saw more flaws sooner if it weren't for the fandom. The fandom in some respects was more interesting, far more intelligent, and definitely more creative than any of the writers, actors, etc associated with the series - time has certainly proven this to be true, if nothing else. In some respects, now, years later, I appreciate the Buffy fandom or rather the people I've met through it far more than the series it spawned.
The fandom has been supportive and caring community by and large. Just avoid certain crazy sub-factions, and you're fine.
Of the characters...the only one that has stuck to me, like glue, is Spike.Not sure why. Possibly because the character was a trope or archetype that I'd been playing with in my own writing. He is. Long before the tv series aired, I had written similar characters myself. The male hooker with the heart of gold or the male rogue with the heart of gold who on the face appears to be evil or the villain and turns out to be more complicated.
The character plays with my mind. Part of the reason for this is I don't like one dimensional villains. I don't find them real. People aren't all one thing. We can be heroes one day, sadistic creeps the next. Both possibilities/poles exist. So black and white characters tend to bore me. The Master I found incredibly dull, actually all the villains in Buffy S1 bored me, they were all somewhat one dimensional. It wasn't until S3 that we got complex villains. Sure you could S2 ...started down that path...and yes, I see the metaphor, as one gets older the villains become more complex and less black and white, as do the rules. That's why Lie to Me is such a great episode.
At any rate...I liked the characters who were complicated. With few exceptions. Acting prowess did have an effect.
3. My biggest frustration with writing is people don't read carefully enough. Myself included. It doesn't matter what I've written - people will often just zero in on one paragraph or one sentence and ignore everything surrounding it. As a result they misunderstand what I wrote completely. At work, to circumvent this occurrence, I've gotten into the habit of writing short sentences. To the point. Often just one or two. And yet, they still don't get it. It's headache inducing. And gives me a bit of a complex. Since of course, it's always my fault. (grins sheepishly).
But seriously, how many times have you read a response to something you wrote and thought, WTF? That's not what I wrote at all! How'd they come up with that??? And were just too bewildered to respond? Or so annoyed, you responded but not well? And how many times (gee this is embarrassing to admit) when you discovered, shit, I misread that post or comment completely - how did I do that?
The internet I think is part of the problem. We are writing too fast, reading too fast, and careful goes out the window. Multi-tasking up a storm. Trying to do one too many things at a time and keep track of one too many items. It's no surprise that we misread and miscommunicate or that there are so many insane misunderstandings that could have been easily avoided, if we just took the time to read and write carefully.
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no subject
Date: 2012-08-23 01:15 pm (UTC)At any rate, it bewilders me that other's couldn't see that.
While I have to congratulate you for seeing what was coming, I have to disagree that there was much logic to the way it played out as opposed to any other possible outcome. I think it only looked logical if:
a. One was a big fan of Spike.
and
b. One hoped that his arc going forward into season 7 was redemption.
With a more neutral view of Spike, I think you'd see that ME was trying everything they knew to throw people off the right track. Considering how ME loved story twists and turns, there really was no more reason to believe before the moment Spike got his soul back that his arc in the near future would be about redemption, than there was to assume ahead of time that Tara would be dead before the end of season 6.
no subject
Date: 2012-08-23 01:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-08-23 10:54 pm (UTC)The vampire with a soul or the guilty vampire has been done to death now. It's gotten dull.
And with Spike - turning that character human would be the worst thing you could do to him. Which is why I wanted it. Whedon chickened out. Damn him.
That was my problem with Whedon - he kept chickening out. He didn't let Cordy be the big bad (because she looked pregnant), he didn't do the hard work with Willow, and he didn't make Spike human. Making Spike human would have screwed with so many characters in such a big way! But the writer writes like a bloody daytime soap/marvel comics serial writer - he goes for contrived plot twists, and easy outs. It's so disappointing.
no subject
Date: 2012-08-23 10:49 pm (UTC)1.) I thought it was obvious that Tara was going to die before the end of S6 and that Willow would become DarkWillow. I used to get into fights with people on spoiler boards regarding this back in the day. I knew Whedon wanted to turn Willow to the dark side, and to do it, he'd kill whomever she was with. OZ or Tara? They'd die.
2) A lot of Spike fans, far more devoted than I am (yes, they are out there), were convinced he was getting his chip out not going for a soul or going back to his former self.
It was actually some of the neutral fans who started to question the "chip" spoiler.
With a more neutral view of Spike, I think you'd see that ME was trying everything they knew to throw people off the right track.
Oh even non-neutral fans knew that.
Did you know that ME actually went so far as to leak a false spoiler on it way back in January. We were having a bet on whether Spike could be redeemed without the chip on a spoiler board at the time. Not only that - but they gave Marsters three scripts for the last scene. They actually fooled the actor. And I seriously believed up until Normal Again or Entropy, that's where they were going. (They fooled the actor but not a lot of fans, but we are obsessed and watch it closer than the actor did.)
IF he'd left after Entropy? I might have bought it. If only to kill Xander. (I wanted to stake Xander after Entropy).
But not after the scene with Clem in SR. It makes no sense. Think about it? Why now? Why not in S4? Or at the end of S5? OR any time in S4 or S5? Clearly he knew about this legend for a while. It's not like he just found out about it. No, it is made clear in Out of My Mind that the only way he can get the chip out is through the Initiative. At least after Entropy - it would make sense because he might want it out so he can finally kill Xander. But he leaves after Seeing Red. More to the point, after a conversation with Clem that shows him upset over how he hurt Buffy. And wondering why he's upset. (But all this you can argue the opposite pov on, of course, because I have.)
Getting the chip out at this point really doesn't change anything in regards to Buffy. Just means she has no reason not to kill him.
Plus from a storytelling perspective - there's no where to go. They've already done Big Bad Spike to death. It's repetitive. You either redeem him or kill him. One or the other. (you can argue this as well)
But, truthfully? What sold me on the fact that he wasn't getting his chip out was when someone online asked - well, why now, why not in S4 or S5? And
I thought, okay...now that's a logical loop-hole that I can't argue around. (I can argue around all the others, but not that one. And ME makes it clear that he's known about this legend for a bit, it's not recent information.)
Then of course we have the trials...and the whole restore me to my former self bit, and better than me...speech, not to mention comparisons to Angel all season long and the whole discussion with Anya about how he's a loser without a soul. The guy has soul's on the mind. Plus Buffy's constant mentioning of it. (Which I also couldn't argue.)
No - if you pay attention to the text - it's pretty obvious. You don't have to be a Spike fan to see it.
(Caveat: I was convinced he was getting his chip, until someone, I think it was cjl or someone else...pointed out various logical loop-holes. Not that ME is logical, but the story thread or pattern was aiming in that direction - I am VERY good at analyzing patterns. It's actually what I do for a living - except they are mathematical.)