Feast of Crows..."Who is Pate?"- And a sort of pseudo review/meta

[shadowkat]

So, I finally finished George RR Martin's Feast of Crows and I've got a question for anyone who has read and finished this book.

Who is Pate? Samwell Tarly meets Pate or Alleghris/The Spinx in the final chapter.
And yes it neatly echoes the first chapter or bookends it.

But the reason for my question is there are three Pates.

1. Pate - who dies in the first chapter
2. Pate - Tommen's whipping boy and friend at Kings Landing, who Queen Cersei punnishes her son by making him whip, if he doesn't whip him, Qyburn will remove his tongue.
3. Pate/Alleghris who Sam meets in the final chapter and is an apprentice level master and confident to the Mage. Figured it out thanks to the comments. This is why you shouldn't skim these books, you confuse yourself. Pate - is the novice at the beginning of the book, Alleras is an apprentice. Both appear at beginning and end.

Is he the same person? Or something else? No not the same person. Martin just likes to us this name because...in Medieval Literature Spotted Pate was a lucky character. (No one is lucky in Martin's books.)

My theory? Allegris (ETA: got him confused with the alchemist Jacq) kills the first Pate (number #1) and takes his form, and becomes an apprentice at the Maesters. Pate -#2 is a completely different Pate and not associated with 1 and 3 at all. While 3 took 1's place. Jaq took Pate the novice at the Citadel's place. (Again skimming these things can confuse you.)

Sam states that there is something off about the Sphinx/Pate/Allerghis Pate, which he doesn't quite trust. Sam is rather intuitive about people. [ETA: He's also not sure about the Sphinx.)

Anyhow? Thoughts? [ETA: See comments.]

That's the only plot thread that lost me. [ETA: Due to spotty memory, skimming, and trying to read it on a train ride home after a tough day at work.] I figured out the Dorn thread, apparently Myrcella almost got killed through Arienne's attempt to grab power through her. Can't say I blame Arienne.

What was interesting about the book was how all the strands except for maybe four were about going after Daenerys and her dragons in the lands of the sun. That Dany was their last hope or their means of revenge or power. The four that did not concern Dany or were oblvious were Jamie, Brienne, Alyanne, and Ayra. Ceresi did but didn't know it - Dany's the Queen that will be Cersei's undoing, not Margaery. That much is clear. And to a degree apt. I also am beginning to think Jamie is the little brother that the old fortune teller forsaw, not Tyrion. Jamie is most likely Cersei's valonquar. Makes perfect sense. Since Jamie is clearly headed towards a collision with Zombie!Catelynne aka Lady Stoneheart. He'll most likely become one of her flock as a means of redeeming himself. And she'll probably ask him to kill Cersei. I don't see any reason for Tyrion to do it at this point.
But Jamie? Definitely. Jamie's ill-placed devotion and love for Cersei nearly has destroyed him. It also has an ironic feel of justice to it - which George RR likes.

There's irony in both Ceresi and Littlefinger's plotting because both are oblivious to Jon Snow and Daenerys and what lies behind those two. Jon and his wolf and the wights of the north. Daeny and her dragons. There's equally irony in Cersei's journey...since she too is oblvious to things outside of King's Landing. What GRR does quite well is depict how clueless human beings are to things outside of their perception. We think we know it all, but all we can see is two inches around us. We have no idea what is coming. We can't see far enough. We can't see the forest. We can only see the bark and ferns and rock. Martin demonstrates this so well. It's why I love him - his ability to show that.

Ceresi has completely misunderstood the prophecy/fortune told to her. So she screws up royally. You could say she's stupid. But keep in mind she doesn't know what we do. She makes decisions based on what she knows. And she trusts no one - so there is no one to guide her. Unlike Tyrion who perhaps was too trusting, Cersei is paranoid, and with good reason. As a result, she makes a series of dumb mistakes. That and she is poorly educated, a fault of her father and mother, who saw women as breeding tools and marketable items.
Tywin saw his children as way to power and prestige. He cared more about how others viewed him and his family then he did about his family - his vanity and his pride are his fatal flaws and why he dies in such an ironic manner. He feared being laughed at, so his death was ludicrous. He wanted a son who was a great knight and a daughter who was a Queen, and got both, but at tremendous cost and not quite in the way he intended. He lost them, and all that was important in the process.

I almost feel sorry for the Lannisters. Their tale is a tragic one, that reminds me a bit of Macbeth and Richard the III. They imploded. The Starks tale is equally tragic and for similar reasons - they too implode, due to to pride and vanity. Both families are so myopic, they can't see the forest for the trees. You can really parallel both families and see through them what Martin is saying...how pride cometh before the fall. Stark means well, but so did Tywin Lannister. Are Eddard Stark and Tywin Lannister really all that different? Are Rob and Jamie? Or Catelynn and Cersei? Or for that matter, Jon Snow and Tyrion? There's a weird fun house mirror effect going on here.

I admittedly am not quite shipping any of the characters at this point. One has to stop shipping with GRR Martin, as a matter of self-preservation. The only characters I'm sort of shipping right now are Ayra, Jon, Tyrion, Dany, Sam/Gilly, and Aysha. I figure they have a sporting chance. I gave up on Jamie and Brienne finally. Both are obviously doomed to Lady Catelynn's vengeful heart. Never been a fan of Catelynn (self-righteous bitch who reminds me a great deal of Cersei actually - can we say Mom's from hell? Yes, we can.), so it's not a fun experience for me. But it does work story and plot wise as well as character wise. Martin has laid the ground work.

Regarding Sansa/Alayne and LittleFinger...not sure what to make of this, except that Littlefinger/Lord Petyr Balish is making some of the same dumb mistakes that Cersei did because he doesn't know as much as he thinks. He knows nothing about what lies beyond the wall and is so self-absorbed and convinced of his own brilliance, that he is equally oblivious to what is happening with Dany in the world beyond Westeros. He just sees Kings Landing, as does Cersei. Catelynn and Eddard were equally somewhat myopic. Jamie to give him some credit is seeing beyond that - he realizes Winter is coming and they have no food supplies in Kings Landing or elsewhere and no time to get them, and will most likely die during the Winter, not from the War but starvation. Both Cersei and Littlefinger are so obsessed with power, neither quite see the other problems. Brienne equally sees the problems ahead and comments on them, as does Samwell. And Alayne who notes how cold the castle is at the Trident. And that they can't possibly stay there much longer.

If I were Alayne, I'd jump at the marriage possibility with Harry the Heir...just to get away from creepy Littlefinger for a bit. Maybe I could convince him to kill Little Finger for me. But it's hard to tell how smart Sansa/Alayne is. Jamie/Brienne will never find her or Ayra either. That's a hopeless cause. It's painful watching them try. And aggravating watching Zombie!Catelynne blame them for it. Hon, you doomed your kids the moment you went after Tyrion on a wild goose chase. You and Eddard Stark were doomed by your own self-righteous vanity. The problem, GRR Martin demonstrates quite aptly here, with militant social justice is what if you are wrong? And the world it's not neat and tidy. You are only seeing a small piece of the picture. And completely blind to the consequences of your own actions. Eddard and Catelynn destroyed their families and themselves..with their stupid quest for misplaced justice. The PC crowd probably winced at this message.

It's a fascinating novel. But I think I missed bits here and there, because it is densely written and to a degree over-written. There's too much. One gets lost. It's like trying to enter an over-grown hedge grove. These books required trimming. Too many characters. Too many perspectives. I kept getting a bit lost. I felt at times like I was read four epic fantasies at the same time.

So anywho...anyone know what the deal with Pate is?

Comments

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

"You and Eddard Stark were doomed by your own self-righteous vanity."
Oh I REALLY agree, they both have endangered their children with their blind belief that they are right and therefore they will win out. I feel sorry for the kids, but Ned and Catelynn got what they deserved (I have no sympathy for them).

I found that the website Westeros was full of interesting insights (this is a site that started ages ago w/people who were following the first books published) and GRRM goes there sometimes because he finds those fans have paid close attention to details.

Here is a Westeros page on all the characters named Pate: http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Pate
It is interesting that GRRM has repeated used the name... the name almost becomes like the red shirt on Star Trek (ie labeled as cannon fodder).

I think I agree (debating online at Westeros site) that it was Jaqen H'ghar masquerading as the Alchemist who kills Pate at the Citadel and takes his place... so Samwell is distrustful of Pate who is actually (probably?) Jagen H'ghar working for a specific end that isn't clear to me (I mean clearly he wanted the key but normally the faceless ones are assassins....).

Rest assured that none of that is a spoiler for Dances with Dragons. It is just speculation based on Feast for Crows (and earlier books). I really am loving this series!