Once Upon a Time - tonight's episode "The Queen is Dead"

[shadowkat]

Frustrating but good episode. The good news, I misread the spoiler I was worried about, the bad news - another twist happened that aggravated me and made me want to kick a certain character.



* Alright, Neal, how big of an ass are you? Seriously, if I was Emma - I'd break the news to his fiance - that Neal not only abandoned Emma when she was 18, so that she took the rap, but also left her pregnant.

And Henry is blaming Emma and not kicking Neal? Ack.

This twist was not appreciated. Also how much you want to bet Neal/Baelfire is Peter Pan?
The show is sort of telegraphing it now - the only one who can fly Hook's ship besides Hook according to the tale is Peter Pan. And his reaction to Hook screams Peter Pan.

Did like the explanation which I already came up with - that he had to have gone to Neverland first or he'd be about 100 years old. As he puts it, if this was my first stop I'd be a hundred years old, I stopped over somewhere else first.

* I actually agree with Snow at this point, kill Cora. Although that won't help. Honestly Regina are you a complete idiot? How did you feel when Cora killed Daniel? Do you really think Henry will forgive you and if you lie to him about it, do you think he'll forgive you for that? And not find out? Seriously, this kid has an uncanny way of sniffing out lies and he does not deal at all with them. Heck, Henry can't handle Emma's fib about Neal - and that's relatively minor in comparison to the whoppers you are going to spin. He's still holding a grudge on that one. If you attempt to kill his entire biological family...you might not like the results.

* Was worried that Snow's mom was related to Cora, rather relieved to discover that no, Cora just plotted on killing her and succeeded.

* Regina, I thought you were over the whole heart ripping out bit. And you are going to have stop ripping people's hearts out to be considered redeemable or the least bit good. Sorry, Snow's right...Good Queen's don't go around ripping out hearts and cursing folks to get a happy. Evil Queen's do that. How deep in denial are you? Stop lying to yourself hon and you might have a chance with Henry.

Right now you're behind both Hook and Rumplestilskin on the whole redemption arc bit.
You'd have thought they had made her just slightly nicer. To be fair she does question her mother's actions a bit - but still only in regards to herself. She has got to be the most self-absorbed and self-centered character on the series, with almost no self-awareness. Hon? Your unhappiness is all your own fault - not Snow's. Yours. And Mamma's. If you want to kick the person responsible, kick Mamma. (I don't need her to be redeemed, just less dumb - right now she's reminding me a bit of Elmer Fudd.)

Comments

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I definitely think Bae is Peter Pan.

And hell yes, Emma deserves to be PISSED. Neal abandoned her to prison. Pregnant. And all based on five minutes with Pinnochio where Pinnochio announced that he was Rumpy's son.

Seriously, it isn't Emma who is the wrong here. It's NEAL!

I half-expected Cora to call Snow's Mom 'sister' (actually, that would explain a lot.)

And, yeah... I'm a bit confused by Regina's plot right now.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

I don't credit Rumplestiltskin with great emotional awareness in relationships, but I think he's right when he tells Emma that Henry will come around and eventually stop blaming Emma for the lie-about-his-Dad situation.

He's a kid, and kids, especially kids who have had a black-and-white worldview like he does, are going to continue to have that until they realize there are many shades of gray in the world. Which is the same thing as the journey to maturity.

Emma does deserve to be pissed, although Neal apologized in his lame way. He still owes her some slack on this, though. He needs to tell Henry to cut his mother a break.

And everyone's in line for the "Emma needs to slug Pinocchio in his wooden nose," party right?

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Emma does deserve to be pissed, although Neal apologized in his lame way. He still owes her some slack on this, though. He needs to tell Henry to cut his mother a break.

Ironically Neal's actions towards Emma are an echo of Rumple's. When he finds out who she is, and that Pinnochio knows who he is and the curse - instead of telling Emma, or taking Emma to Storybrook. He runs away, abandoning her completely. He takes the coward's way out.

He's become the two father figures he despised the most: Hook and Rumple, without intending to.

Hook = a thief/pirate, stealing from others, and letting others take the rap, also a rogue with the ladies, seducing and breaking their hearts.

Rumple = a coward who runs from what he is afraid of, abandoning the person he loves and rationalizing it as someone else's fault or for their own good.

Also his conversation with Rumple is ironic - he tells Rumple the worst thing is to be abandoned - and that in a nutshell is exactly what he did to Emma. He left Emma in a prison and pit of despair, broken - just like Rumple did with him.

Similar to Emma/Snow.

Snow gives up Emma - hoping she can have a better life - because she knows she can't have one with her due to the curse.

Emma gives up Henry - hoping he can have a better life - because she knows he can't have one with her.

Also, both Snow and Emma grow up without their biological parents. And Henry ends up with Regina in some respects - in the same manner that Snow ended up with Regina.

Regina remember is at least 20-30 years older than Snow. She's Henry's evil Step-Great Grandmother, as Rumple is his evil Grandfather.

Oh and like David - Henry is adopted by an evil royal.

Gotta to appreciate the nifty parallels.

And everyone's in line for the "Emma needs to slug Pinocchio in his wooden nose," party right?

Oh yeah. Actually I want her to do more than that. August deserves a nice pummeling. ;-)

[flameraven.livejournal.com]

I don't think Regina is that much older than Snow. Snow was supposed to be around 12-13, when Regina became her adopted mother, and at that point I think Regina was supposed to be around 17-18. It gets tricky because they've got the actress playing the same character at all different ages, but I definitely think that when Regina married the king she was meant to be no older than 20. When the curse took hold, Snow was 23-24, and Regina is supposed to be in her early 30's? The actual dates are tricky, but I don't think they're intended to be any more than 6-7 years apart. Which is part of why Regina being Snow's "mother" is so creepy.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Yes, apparently the consensus is that Regina and Snow are close in age. It's confusing though because the same actress plays young Regina and older Regina, while a different actress plays young Snow and older Snow. They did the same thing with Regina that they do with Emma - they have the 30 something actress playing a teen version. I guess they figure they can get away with it - considering tv series have been doing that for years. 90120 had 30 and late 20 year olds playing teens as did Buffy for that matter.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

I doubt Regina is 20-30 years older than Snow. I'd say max, 15 years. She was a young bride.

Gotta to appreciate the nifty parallels.

Either that, or one of the writers has serious story kinks. Or a lack of imagination. ; )

I want to know where the frig August is. Is the actor just unavailable, or was his lack of presence in Storybrooke a writers' choice? They should at least have a scene where Gepeto reacts to that apparent absence.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I want to know where the frig August is. Is the actor just unavailable, or was his lack of presence in Storybrooke a writers' choice? They should at least have a scene where Gepeto reacts to that apparent absence.

We did see Gepetto say...where's Pinnochio? Where's my son? (Actually they deserve to be separated considering that Gepetto selfishly put Pinnochio in the trunk and lied to Snow telling her that only one could go, as a result separating her from her daughter for 28 years.)

But I agree - where the frig is August? He just disappeared and hasn't popped up again.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

We saw Gepeto looking for Pinnochio in the season opener. He put up a flyer of the child. Then Henry whispers something in his ear, and he goes to Granny's Bed and Breakfast. Pinnochio's suitcase and his old hat are still there, but no Pinn.

The next time we see Gepeto for any length of time is at Archie's funeral. OMG, Pinnochio and Jimeny Cricket are Major Buds, August should have been at the funeral, but he was nowhere to be seen, and Gepeto seemed oblivious to that.

But if we're supposed to believe August is still in town, he must be hiding in his father's workshop - from Emma *and* Rumplestiltskin!

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Not to mention Snow and Charming - who are going to be none too pleased when they discover that little lie about the tree.

Could he have left Storybrook and gone elsewhere?

We know he's around - because he sent Baelfire the post-card informing him that the curse was broken. The question is where?

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Great minds think alike. ;)

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I cut Henry some slack here because he's a kid and he feels hurt. I sympathize with what Emma did. It was mostly a well-meaning lie. But Henry is a kid so I understand why he's behaving this way, and I do think he'll get over it.

Pinnochio deserved to be punched. In the face.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Henry has two issues (besides being a kid) that make it harder for him to deal with Emma lying.

(1) He has major mommy issues re: Regina. She did mess with his head before the curse broke by denying the truth of his beliefs in the fairytale book while at the same time being obviously worried about that book in her conversations with him.

(2) Henry is all the time with the "Good always wins," "I want to be a hero like my family," "Ending the curse will bring back the happy endings." It's a kids-eye view of the world, taken to an extreme, and he needs to have that toned down a bit to mature optimism and the realization that heroes are fallible but that doesn't make them less heroes. That's part of his journey.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I half-expected Cora to call Snow's Mom 'sister' (actually, that would explain a lot.)

It may still happen. And it certainly would explain a lot.

That's the spoiler I read. I don't think I want it to- because we are heading into convoluted incestuous soap opera territory here. (It would make Regina - Henry's great aunt, and step-great grandmother and adopted mother.)
LOL! OTOH...it does explain the hatred.

Yeah, I definitely think Bae is Peter Pan.

No doubt in my mind at the moment. Assuming they stick to the rules of that story - which were that only two people can captain Hook's ship - Hook and Peter Pan. Hook was in the stories - another father figure. I think he is here too - actually he's Bae's step-father. Does Emma know Hook's back-story? I can't remember.

And hell yes, Emma deserves to be PISSED. Neal abandoned her to prison. Pregnant. And all based on five minutes with Pinnochio where Pinnochio announced that he was Rumpy's son.

Seriously, it isn't Emma who is the wrong here. It's NEAL!

As I stated to Masq below, Neal's actions towards Emma ironically stink of his father. He did the same thing he's so upset with his Dad for doing to him. Which to give Emma credit - she does call him on. And he clearly is nervous about telling her about his fiancee - because he obviously realizes from her perspective - he's in the dog-house more or less permanently. And having a fiancee, a pretty and successful one - is going to make it even worse.

That doesn't mean I don't want to smack him. I adore the actor playing him and the character - but damn, Bae, could you be any more like your father?
Seriously - you ran out on the gal you loved, stuck her in a prison, then you get upset you didn't know you had a kid? It's not like you ever checked to see or looked her up? Plus you move on, without seeing if she's okay?
Considering how much Bae hated being abandoned - it's ironic that what he did to Emma is just as bad as what his father did to him.

And, yeah... I'm a bit confused by Regina's plot right now.

It's too abrupt. Mom shows up and she goes all bad evil again? Okay.
This would make more sense if Regina had a reason to trust or love her mother - but I'm not seeing one. Her mother was nasty to her.

Actually this may explain why she treats Henry the way she does - she probably thinks hey, I love my mom and admire her for being all bad-evil, why wouldn't Henry be the same way??

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

What they might be doing with Neal is making him an overgrown boy, in the tradition of Peter Pan. Young!Baelfire didn't seem half as immature as his older self, but two centuries in Neverland or whatever could stunt your growth.

Also explains his cuteness appeal. He's all "Aren't I cute and I know it" in Tallahassee. Problem is, he gets away with it, 'cause he is.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Oh, he definitely is. ;-)

The Peter Pan references abound.

[flameraven.livejournal.com]

The problem with Neal for me is that I keep seeing him as Rene from True Blood. Who was Really Bad News. I can't see him as cute at all. I know the actor is not the character, but... yeah.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Arlene would be having a meltdown.

* Damn kindle autorrect.

[flameraven.livejournal.com]

I'm kind of waiting for Emma to have a meltdown. You can see the horror and disbelief on her face every time she runs into more crazy magic stuff. I feel like eventually she's going to have to deal with one magic thing too many and just go off on everyone.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

I watched that so long ago, I don't see Rene anymore. Which is a good thing, I think!

A good actor will make you soon not see who else s/he played. Like Uther on Merlin. He stopped being Giles after a few episodes.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Quite true. I don't even remember Renee. True Blood is not a series I re-watch nor does it stay with me. I've forgotten half of it.

Also Michael Raymond-James is a brilliant character actor - I saw him in Terriers completely unrecognizable from Renee in True Blood and again here. It took me a while to place him. He's one of those actors who can play a wide range of roles. ASH is similar - I saw him in five different things, Chess on the Stage, VR5, Buffy, those Taster's Choice commercials (his original claim to fame), and Merlin - and you forget his previous roles after a bit.

[flameraven.livejournal.com]

I've only seen True Blood once, but it sticks in my brain pretty well. And it's the only other thing I've seen him in.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

When explaining the story to someone it struck me that it's allow cycles that are repeating. Snow gave up Emma to protect her and for her own good, but Emma still felt rejected by that. Then Emma gave up Henry for his own good, and he has unexpressed feelings about that.

Rumpy felt his father's fears and weaknesses reflected on him, and he responded by magnifying those fears and weaknesses such that he became the Dark One to hide and overpower... allienating Bae who was horrified by the way his father weilded power.

Bae/Neal felt abandoned by his father who chose his own life over that of his son became Neal who convinced himself it was okay to abandon Emma rather than be exposed as Rumpy's son, so he wasn't there (in a way abandonning) his own son.

Cora constantly manipulated and controlled Regina for her own ambitions and quest for power. And now Regina time and again follows the same pattern.

You know, I'm beginning to understand why Belle is so damnable gullible...

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

The show definitely likes to do cycles, or mirror characters, lots of mirror imagery going on.

Henry and Bae in some respects are mirrors of each other...both have parents who split. And Bae being with a new fiancee...is in some respects an echo of Millah being with Hook. Emma also oddly has been identifying with Rumple a great deal as has Rumple with Emma, he keeps telling her all the things they have in common.

You know, I'm beginning to understand why Belle is so damnable gullible...

It's admittedly been a long day, but I think you lost me there...is it because she's surrounded by all these manipulative control freaks?

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Kindle 'correcting' my language probably doesn't help. Just saying that Belle takes everyone at their word even when by rights she should be skeptical. And her father was kind of a Rufus. Believing Gaston and sending thinking it made any sort of sense to leave his daughter with the Dark One.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Yes, it's not like her father is or was the brightest bulb on the planet.