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Mar. 22nd, 2013 09:56 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkat1.Book Meme from heck continues: Day 27 – The most surprising plot twist or ending
Can't think of one? Can you think of one? Mind is a complete blank.
I guess...Agatha Christie's Curtain. See here's the thing...I have a tendency to read a head in a lot of books, so it is rare that I will be surprised. Kindle has admittedly changed that, so I was sort of surprised by a plot twist in the latest Harry Dresden novel - regarding Molly Carpenter, also somewhat surprised by a character development in the Rachel Morgan series. But nothing worth writing about.
Also not really a fan of surprising plot twists. The reason is - if they are surprising then they are often badly written. Because a well-plotted twist is often something you can see coming - if it's plotted well enough and built well enough it won't be shocking or surprising. And in many cases plot twists either are gimmicks or at the sake of the characters, the writer will often sacrifice the character arc they've been building for the twist. I prefer books without plot twists. Because the twist in most cases is anti-climatic or disappointing, and hurts the story. It's a comic book/pulp writer crutch. See it a lot in those genres...and most of the time, find it to be disappointing.
A good plot twist, in recent memory, was in a book that I despised and was principally about the plot twist - the whole book was based on the twist - this was Atonement. It did not work without the twist.
That's not to say they aren't fun. They are - lots of fun in soap operas, comic books, and genre novels. Just saw a great plot twist on General Hospital today. Best plot-twist that I saw in a long long time, and I didn't predict it. OUAT also does good plot twists. TV tends to be better at this sort of thing than books are...but like I said, I can't really remember any off-hand.
Day 28 – Favorite title
Day 29 – A book everyone hated but you liked
Day 30 – Your favorite book of all time
2. And the end of the far more entertaining Tv Meme
Day 30 - Saddest character death.
Eh. I'm odd about character deaths. Most of the time I believe character deaths in tv series are necessary - they propel the plot forward. Also I've been watching daytime soap operas, fantasy shows, and sci-fi shows most of my life not to mention reading comic books off and on, you sort of get used to character deaths after a bit. Both mediums kill characters off right and left, with little remorse and often not much foreshadowing. Wait...they just killed off Cyclops? WTF? Or wait, you just killed off Buffy? The Lead? Seriously? Whoa. And after teasing me about it for five years. No less.
Not only do they kill characters off without flinching, they bring them back to life. I kid you not. So after a while, the audience gets tired of the whiplash, shrugs, and decides..eh, the character is only dead until the actor decides to reprise them or the writers change or they run out of ideas and decide to resurrect the character. Sort of takes the sting off of the whole thing.
That said, there are characters whose deaths...are more permanent and gut-wrenching. But they too fall into categories. 1)The death that is written in such a manner that regardless of how you felt about the character, you are sobbing during the episode. You might not even have liked them all that much - but you are sobbing watching that episode. 2) the actor dies so they have to kill off the character, often prematurely, with the episode becoming a sort of homage to the actor that played the character, and 3) the character you adored and they killed them off, damn them, and did it in a realistic and painful way - which worked with the character's arc but wasn't overly manipulative.
1. Joyce Summers - in The Body. I did not care about Joyce all that much, to be honest. Was rather ambivalent about the actress and the character. I also knew she was probably going to be written out at some point. But the writing of that episode makes me bawl every damn time.
It may be the best episode regarding grief and death that I've seen on TV.
2. JR Ewing (Larry Hagman) in Dallas and Leo McGarrity (in The West Wing) - both actors died off-screen, and their characters had to die off-screen as well. Both were great losses to their series and you felt their loss in your gut. Neither series was or can be the same without them.
3. Wallace, D'Angelo,Poot Bodie (The Wire) and Juliet in LOST. Characters I adored yet whose deaths actually worked in the story in regards to both their arc, the characters around them, and felt sad at the same time. Also I didn't see their deaths coming - in quite the way they did. The kids in the Wire are sad - because of the wasted opportunity. All three are tragic, yet representative of kids killed every day in the city. Most recently, KiKmina Gray, a 16 year old street tough who was gun-downed by two cops who claimed he was waiving a gun when in reality he wasn't. The Wire's deaths are admittedly less tragic.
Juliet in LOST was a character who had grown on me and over time became my favorite female character on the series. I adored her and Sawyer. And her death was tragic - it also in some respects furthered Sawyer's story, and her own. She dies trying to fight fate. Trying to push the reset button - to reset time, to give Sawyer a chance, if not herself.
Eh fun meme. Now I want another one. All I see are fanfic memes, and I can't do fanfic memes.
The other's are personnel memes about your personal life, and I hate those. Too bloody revealing - also half the answers are things you have to use as security questions - so hacker territory.
Can't think of one? Can you think of one? Mind is a complete blank.
I guess...Agatha Christie's Curtain. See here's the thing...I have a tendency to read a head in a lot of books, so it is rare that I will be surprised. Kindle has admittedly changed that, so I was sort of surprised by a plot twist in the latest Harry Dresden novel - regarding Molly Carpenter, also somewhat surprised by a character development in the Rachel Morgan series. But nothing worth writing about.
Also not really a fan of surprising plot twists. The reason is - if they are surprising then they are often badly written. Because a well-plotted twist is often something you can see coming - if it's plotted well enough and built well enough it won't be shocking or surprising. And in many cases plot twists either are gimmicks or at the sake of the characters, the writer will often sacrifice the character arc they've been building for the twist. I prefer books without plot twists. Because the twist in most cases is anti-climatic or disappointing, and hurts the story. It's a comic book/pulp writer crutch. See it a lot in those genres...and most of the time, find it to be disappointing.
A good plot twist, in recent memory, was in a book that I despised and was principally about the plot twist - the whole book was based on the twist - this was Atonement. It did not work without the twist.
That's not to say they aren't fun. They are - lots of fun in soap operas, comic books, and genre novels. Just saw a great plot twist on General Hospital today. Best plot-twist that I saw in a long long time, and I didn't predict it. OUAT also does good plot twists. TV tends to be better at this sort of thing than books are...but like I said, I can't really remember any off-hand.
Day 28 – Favorite title
Day 29 – A book everyone hated but you liked
Day 30 – Your favorite book of all time
2. And the end of the far more entertaining Tv Meme
Day 30 - Saddest character death.
Eh. I'm odd about character deaths. Most of the time I believe character deaths in tv series are necessary - they propel the plot forward. Also I've been watching daytime soap operas, fantasy shows, and sci-fi shows most of my life not to mention reading comic books off and on, you sort of get used to character deaths after a bit. Both mediums kill characters off right and left, with little remorse and often not much foreshadowing. Wait...they just killed off Cyclops? WTF? Or wait, you just killed off Buffy? The Lead? Seriously? Whoa. And after teasing me about it for five years. No less.
Not only do they kill characters off without flinching, they bring them back to life. I kid you not. So after a while, the audience gets tired of the whiplash, shrugs, and decides..eh, the character is only dead until the actor decides to reprise them or the writers change or they run out of ideas and decide to resurrect the character. Sort of takes the sting off of the whole thing.
That said, there are characters whose deaths...are more permanent and gut-wrenching. But they too fall into categories. 1)The death that is written in such a manner that regardless of how you felt about the character, you are sobbing during the episode. You might not even have liked them all that much - but you are sobbing watching that episode. 2) the actor dies so they have to kill off the character, often prematurely, with the episode becoming a sort of homage to the actor that played the character, and 3) the character you adored and they killed them off, damn them, and did it in a realistic and painful way - which worked with the character's arc but wasn't overly manipulative.
1. Joyce Summers - in The Body. I did not care about Joyce all that much, to be honest. Was rather ambivalent about the actress and the character. I also knew she was probably going to be written out at some point. But the writing of that episode makes me bawl every damn time.
It may be the best episode regarding grief and death that I've seen on TV.
2. JR Ewing (Larry Hagman) in Dallas and Leo McGarrity (in The West Wing) - both actors died off-screen, and their characters had to die off-screen as well. Both were great losses to their series and you felt their loss in your gut. Neither series was or can be the same without them.
3. Wallace, D'Angelo,
Juliet in LOST was a character who had grown on me and over time became my favorite female character on the series. I adored her and Sawyer. And her death was tragic - it also in some respects furthered Sawyer's story, and her own. She dies trying to fight fate. Trying to push the reset button - to reset time, to give Sawyer a chance, if not herself.
Eh fun meme. Now I want another one. All I see are fanfic memes, and I can't do fanfic memes.
The other's are personnel memes about your personal life, and I hate those. Too bloody revealing - also half the answers are things you have to use as security questions - so hacker territory.
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no subject
Date: 2013-03-23 03:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-03-23 01:11 pm (UTC)Most likely was. Can't remember.
no subject
Date: 2013-03-23 01:46 pm (UTC)And WTF!WinterFairies??
It's really, really foreshadowed through Ghost Story and Cold Days, and yet really, really NOT at the same time because everything is Harry's POV and he doesn't seem all that worried that Molly is spending so much time with the sidhe, and so we don't. When he Should.
I hear Butcher put out a Molly POV short story, not in his first collections of DF short stories, but the second collection, that actually gives us more back story on the How Why and Where of Molly and Harry's Fairy Godmother.
no subject
Date: 2013-03-23 04:45 pm (UTC)Been there, done that. That's how I got spoiled regarding a major character death on Dexter.
Damn internets. No where is safe.
It's really, really foreshadowed through Ghost Story and Cold Days, and yet really, really NOT at the same time because everything is Harry's POV and he doesn't seem all that worried that Molly is spending so much time with the sidhe, and so we don't. When he Should.
Agreed. This was a well-built plot twist. It furthered the characters and I should have seen it coming. Because when we first meet Molly - she's captured and taken to Arctis Tor where Harry has to rescue her, because of the type of magic she's been using. Was that Cold Days?
Can't remember. I should re-read the books at some point.
Butcher's one of the few serial novelists that I like.
I hear Butcher put out a Molly POV short story, not in his first collections of DF short stories, but the second collection, that actually gives us more back story on the How Why and Where of Molly and Harry's Fairy Godmother.
He has another short-story collection out there? I have Side Jobs...bought it for the novella in Murphy's pov. I rather adore Murphy and believe she will be the new Knight that wields the sword. HonorH thinks it will be Thomas, but no...Murphy.
no subject
Date: 2013-03-23 05:12 pm (UTC)There is no Molly in Arctis Tor in Cold Days. I remember so little about the previous books, though, since I read them when they're released and that goes back years. The GF will talk and talk about whatever novel she's on in the series and I'm like, Um... Sometimes I remember stuff, sometimes I don't.
And Google is friggin' dangerous for spoilers. I was just Googling something for OUAT for some random comment I wanted to make in someone's blog, and got totally spoiled for Graham's return in the previous episode. Casting spoilers by ABC just for promo purposes. *&^%$!!
And of course, it freaked me out, 'cause I wondered how they could bring back a dead character as the Sheriff (as opposed to the Huntsman) without it being totally stupid.
I need to have a little more faith in the show.
no subject
Date: 2013-03-23 06:47 pm (UTC)But I got spoiled on Manhattan - I found out that Michael Raymond-James who plays Neal was in that episode and in the rest season. So I thought, okay, he's Baelfire. They didn't tell me that - but nothing else worked.
Flameraven saw the same spoiler and viewed it as a mislead, and that Neal was Henry's Dad end of story.
no subject
Date: 2013-03-23 07:10 pm (UTC)Or worse, a sign the fan had just NOT been paying attention to past canon at all.
But since I'm so relatively unspoiled, any spoiler or spec I read has the potential to like, Ruin My Optimism.
Or worse, Create Unwarranted Optimism. Hate that.
no subject
Date: 2013-03-24 12:39 am (UTC)I remember the Buffy fandom spoilers...which were always incomplete, and some were just flat-out wrong. (Reminds my of spoilers for daytime soaps and comics actually, where the writers actually plant false spoilers to confuse the fans - long time serial writers are very good at this. Actually back in the day, apparently Louisa May Alcott and Charles Dickens played the same games with readers - they published Little Women and David Copperfield serially in magazines back then).
It's why I swore off spoilers for tv series I care about. You just torture yourself. Also swore off spoiler boards, mainly because you run into crazy fans who decide to either interpret the spoilers as the worst thing ever or the best thing ever. Marti Noxon had a lot of fun playing with the fans.
As did David Fury. They'd plant false spoilers right and left and drive people crazy.
With OUAT...unlike you, I see the previews for next week - which are shown as commercials all week long. So even if I missed them at the end of that episode, I'd see them while watching another ABC series - I'm watching at least four at the moment. And they are always misleading. I can't tell what the heck they are doing next week - looks like Snow White hunts down John Henry (you know the lumberjack from American Folklore - can't quite remember his name)...which just makes no sense whatsoever.
Also its more fun to speculate without them, to be honest.
no subject
Date: 2013-03-24 12:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-03-24 12:49 am (UTC)Or Doctor Who fans for that matter - dissecting those previews.
Fans, I think, like to drive themselves crazy.
no subject
Date: 2013-03-24 02:20 pm (UTC)Which is weird, because when you are in the world of streaming TV, the one thing you're still fully trained to expect, and feel the absence of palpably as the episode ends, is *the lack of previews*. It's like a big, gaping hole in the experience.
And yet, I don't want them at the same time.
no subject
Date: 2013-03-23 10:34 pm (UTC)There is a fourth category - or maybe it's a subcategory of 3. When the character death is *personal*. I don't know how else to describe it, and it's only happened to me once and hopefully never will again.
(Not sure what I'm saying, it's late and I'm tired. But it's a fascinating topic.)
no subject
Date: 2013-03-23 11:00 pm (UTC)Yeah, I saw it happen with Tara. Best not to go there. Well not unless you want a kerfuffle. ;-)
no subject
Date: 2013-03-23 11:13 pm (UTC)No, not really. I know what you mean about Tara, but Ianto was different. If you look at any number of characters that Joss killed off, then they're all tragic, and unless you have a heart of stone, you'll be sad. Look at... oh Buffy killing Angel. Even though we know he's coming back, Buffy's pain is upsetting. What happened with Ianto was different. Yes the Jack/Ianto ship had a huuuuuge following, and it *was* turned into a cause (although declaring that a gay writer is 'homophobic' because he killed off one half of a slashy pairing is... not wise) - but people were *hurting*. It even hurts now, and it's a personal thing, because *I* lost the character. I'm also - relatedly - sad about the 'ship, but that's entirely secondary. Jack's grief was merely a mirror of my own, not the thing that caused me upset. Not everyone reacted like that, of course, but enough people did for there to be created that memorial. It's sort of hard to describe what Ianto was, because in many ways he was so ordinary. Yet he hit *something*... I tend to fall for characters like Spike or the Doctor or River or Angel. Larger than life, immortal heroes with messed up lives. Ianto was all too human and mortal, and I don't think I'll ever fall for another 'ordinary' character again, quite simply because it hurt so much when I lost him. It sounds stupid, but I mourned him.
Does that explain it?
no subject
Date: 2013-03-24 02:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-03-24 08:37 am (UTC)But Ianto's death also a affected me more than any other fictional death ever. I don't understand it, I rather wish it hadn't because gut-wrentching pain over over a fictional character is not exactly logical or sensible or... anything. But nevertheless, it took me about 2 years (and those audios they released before Miracle Day) before I could make my peace with it. (Miracle Day was crap, but that's beside the point.)
no subject
Date: 2013-03-24 01:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-03-24 04:47 pm (UTC)Basically I can't explain it, except acknowledge that it happened, and that no matter that the character was only fictional, my emotions were real. And that it the same for so many people that it has reverberated out into the real world, with the memorial etc.
Very strange.