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shadowkatComfortably numb - if I can't use aleve, two glasses of apple wine and a massage cushin works.
Watched the first two episodes of S3 Game of Thrones last night - can't really tell you how it differs from the books, because I don't remember Storm of Swords that well (except for a few key moments which are unforgettable (an understatement) plus, just in case I do forget them, Martin keeps reminding me of them in the latter books, but those moments haven't happened yet in the tv series).
That said? Is this season spoiling me on Theon Greyjoy arc in Dance of Dragons? I can't remember the character being in Storm of Swords. (Keep in mind, I read Storm of Swords in 2010...it's been a while.) [ETA: According to the comments? That would be a resounding YES!
By the way, don't read the comments if you are unspoiled for the books past Clash. We have spoilers up to ADWD, which I'm reading as we speak. Poor Theon. I didn't like the character, but seriously no one deserves what he got. GRRM is one sadistic writer - he can give Stephen King a run for his money, and I honestly didn't think that was possible, actually he can give Joss Whedon, Vince Gilligan, the guy writing Walking Dead, and most of the Saw movies a run for their money. So if you have issues with that sort of thing? Stop now. Don't say I didn't warn you.]
The nice thing about the tv series is it has clarified who certain characters are...because I have a tendency to lose track of them in the books or rather track of who they are exactly.
Not surprising. There's a lot of characters in these books. I also have lost track of who people are in the tv series at times, but the writers are nice and remind me.
* Theon is being tortured on a cross by somebody. I don't know who. For a bit I thought it was his own family, but somehow I doubt it. Will state it is gruesome and sort of outside my tolerance level for torture scenes. (I don't like torture scenes - they bother me. I can't watch people being emotionally, physically, or mentally tortured, without fast-forwarding or leaving the room. It's actually why I can't handle a lot of American sitcoms.) Also...I do not remember this being in the book at all. (Actually I don't remember much of Theon's arc in books 1-3, because I found the character to be grating so admittedly skimmed. Oddly I remember Davos arc better. ) What I want to know? Is the tv series spoiling me on Theon's arc in Dance with Dragons? Are they bringing things forward? And can anyone tell me without spoiling me on Theon's arc in Dance with Dragons?
* Ciarin Hinds as Mance Ryder is much better casting than I'd thought. I admittedly imagined him differently in the books - but he is rather perfect for this role. To date - there have been no missteps in the casting department, everyone is pitch perfect - even if I imagined some the characters slightly differently in my head. (Jamie was prettier, Sansa younger and lot smaller in build, and Stannis far less attractive.)
* Am loving Dany's arc in the series - much more than in the books. In part because I know who people are, and what's going on, I never was quite sure in the books - we spend a lot of time in her head pondering things that have already happened or what she should do or which slave girl is best to sleep with in the books. It's all rather dull. So I skimmed. Also, in the books, her relationship with Jorah squicked me, here, oddly, I find their relationship hot and filled with sexual tension. I love them together on screen. Also Jorah Mormount is far more attractive and sympathetic then he was in the books for some reason - it must be the actor?
At any rate - Selby Barriston saves Dany's life. And I'm thinking - oh, so that is who Dany's advisor is? I couldn't figure out who he was in the books. Just that he had some link to King's Landing. But, it turns out, that he was the head of the Kings Guard - before King Joffrey fired him. Joffrey wanted to do more than that - but Barristan isn't someone the King's Guard wanted to fight or execute. Even Jamie revered him - as an amazing fighter.
So Barristan takes off...and saves Dany from the deadly (and rather cool looking) scorpion - which the little girl assassin attempted to kill her with. Wander if the girl is one of the Faceless Assassins? That was a wonderful scene. Jorah isn't too happy with Barristan's appearance - I can't quite remember why though.
* Tyrion continues to amuse and dig himself deeper into hell. He's surrounded by people with their own agendas. Tyrion and Sansa are - actually. I rather adored his dialogues with Cersei, Tywin, Bronne (who is the only one who knows how to banter with Tyrion), and Shae.
Shae: I was told not to trust Lord Baelish.
Tyrion: Littlefinger? No one with half a brain trusts LittleFinger. You don't get very far if you do. (True, just ask Ned and Catelynn Stark). Who told you?
Shae: His friend.
Tyrion: Littlefinger doesn't have any friends.
Shae: I don't know if she's his friend, just the woman who is with him or works for him, reddish hair.
Tyrion: Roz? (So..that's who she is! YAY! Thank you show. I'd forgotten. Hey, I can't remember the names of half the people I work with.)
Shae: You know her? How would you ...you slept with her.
Tyrion: Well..
Shae: You did. (Oh come on Shae, of course he did, she was a whore.)
Tyrion: Once.
Shae: Once?
Tyrion: Okay, maybe twice...but it was before I met you.
I rather like Shae. Also like Shae's concern for Sansa, who she is attempting to protect. Although I don't remember Shae trying to protect Sansa in the books, just the opposite actually. Shae was not nice in the books and a bit whiny. Here she is much more likable.
Sansa also is coming across as a bit brighter than I remember. She's trying to say as little as possible. The Queen of Thorns (okay Diana Rigg) sort of coaxes the truth about Joffrey out of her. Honestly, I don't know why...it's not like Joffrey won't show his stripes soon on his own. Joffrey, methinks, has the hots for Margarey, who is a far better and much deadlier match than Sansa. Joffrey was actually safer with Sansa. Margarey wants power and to be Queen. The scene with Margarey and Joffrey playing with Joffrey's new bow which he got to win over Margarey...was intriguing. In the space of ten minutes, the writers got across two things: 1) Joffrey can be seduced and wants Margarey, and 2) Maragrey is planning on killing Joffrey the first chance she gets...he's basically married his mother. Talk about just desserts.
* The actors playing the kids in this series are rather talented. Bran - is a marvel, beautiful kid and very expressive, as is Jojen and his sister, Mirrin (who are two of my favorite characters in the books). So too is Ayra - love the actress playing that character, also love the character.
* Jamie and Breen's sword-fight was shorter, but well done, she was beating him. Which is what obtains Jamie's respect. They have an interesting relationship. And I adore the actress they cast as Breen. The actors also have chemistry, and she is so much bigger than he is, which is striking - since he's not a small man. Watching him bug her and do everything possible to get her to break down her guard, so he can get a chance to escape - was interesting and well written. They managed to shorten it a bit, in part because they got rid of the cousin in the last season. In the books, Jamie is traveling with Breen and his cousin. They end up in a boat, almost get killed, but survive. Jamie shaves his head so he won't be recognized and grows a beard. Then the find a village, where the cousin gets himself killed, it's here that Jamie breaks free finally and fights Breen - until they are captured by the Goat. In the tv series - it doesn't take nearly as long and is more compelling. Although Jamie, admittedly, comes out nicer and less of an asshole in the books.
(ie. He didn't kill his cousin to escape a cell and actually mourns the man's loss.)
Eh...don't have much more to say. Am sort of hot, with a dull head-ache that I can't take anything for, and a bit of a back-ache. So will stop now. And watch tv.
Watched the first two episodes of S3 Game of Thrones last night - can't really tell you how it differs from the books, because I don't remember Storm of Swords that well (except for a few key moments which are unforgettable (an understatement) plus, just in case I do forget them, Martin keeps reminding me of them in the latter books, but those moments haven't happened yet in the tv series).
That said? Is this season spoiling me on Theon Greyjoy arc in Dance of Dragons? I can't remember the character being in Storm of Swords. (Keep in mind, I read Storm of Swords in 2010...it's been a while.) [ETA: According to the comments? That would be a resounding YES!
By the way, don't read the comments if you are unspoiled for the books past Clash. We have spoilers up to ADWD, which I'm reading as we speak. Poor Theon. I didn't like the character, but seriously no one deserves what he got. GRRM is one sadistic writer - he can give Stephen King a run for his money, and I honestly didn't think that was possible, actually he can give Joss Whedon, Vince Gilligan, the guy writing Walking Dead, and most of the Saw movies a run for their money. So if you have issues with that sort of thing? Stop now. Don't say I didn't warn you.]
The nice thing about the tv series is it has clarified who certain characters are...because I have a tendency to lose track of them in the books or rather track of who they are exactly.
Not surprising. There's a lot of characters in these books. I also have lost track of who people are in the tv series at times, but the writers are nice and remind me.
* Theon is being tortured on a cross by somebody. I don't know who. For a bit I thought it was his own family, but somehow I doubt it. Will state it is gruesome and sort of outside my tolerance level for torture scenes. (I don't like torture scenes - they bother me. I can't watch people being emotionally, physically, or mentally tortured, without fast-forwarding or leaving the room. It's actually why I can't handle a lot of American sitcoms.) Also...I do not remember this being in the book at all. (Actually I don't remember much of Theon's arc in books 1-3, because I found the character to be grating so admittedly skimmed. Oddly I remember Davos arc better. ) What I want to know? Is the tv series spoiling me on Theon's arc in Dance with Dragons? Are they bringing things forward? And can anyone tell me without spoiling me on Theon's arc in Dance with Dragons?
* Ciarin Hinds as Mance Ryder is much better casting than I'd thought. I admittedly imagined him differently in the books - but he is rather perfect for this role. To date - there have been no missteps in the casting department, everyone is pitch perfect - even if I imagined some the characters slightly differently in my head. (Jamie was prettier, Sansa younger and lot smaller in build, and Stannis far less attractive.)
* Am loving Dany's arc in the series - much more than in the books. In part because I know who people are, and what's going on, I never was quite sure in the books - we spend a lot of time in her head pondering things that have already happened or what she should do or which slave girl is best to sleep with in the books. It's all rather dull. So I skimmed. Also, in the books, her relationship with Jorah squicked me, here, oddly, I find their relationship hot and filled with sexual tension. I love them together on screen. Also Jorah Mormount is far more attractive and sympathetic then he was in the books for some reason - it must be the actor?
At any rate - Selby Barriston saves Dany's life. And I'm thinking - oh, so that is who Dany's advisor is? I couldn't figure out who he was in the books. Just that he had some link to King's Landing. But, it turns out, that he was the head of the Kings Guard - before King Joffrey fired him. Joffrey wanted to do more than that - but Barristan isn't someone the King's Guard wanted to fight or execute. Even Jamie revered him - as an amazing fighter.
So Barristan takes off...and saves Dany from the deadly (and rather cool looking) scorpion - which the little girl assassin attempted to kill her with. Wander if the girl is one of the Faceless Assassins? That was a wonderful scene. Jorah isn't too happy with Barristan's appearance - I can't quite remember why though.
* Tyrion continues to amuse and dig himself deeper into hell. He's surrounded by people with their own agendas. Tyrion and Sansa are - actually. I rather adored his dialogues with Cersei, Tywin, Bronne (who is the only one who knows how to banter with Tyrion), and Shae.
Shae: I was told not to trust Lord Baelish.
Tyrion: Littlefinger? No one with half a brain trusts LittleFinger. You don't get very far if you do. (True, just ask Ned and Catelynn Stark). Who told you?
Shae: His friend.
Tyrion: Littlefinger doesn't have any friends.
Shae: I don't know if she's his friend, just the woman who is with him or works for him, reddish hair.
Tyrion: Roz? (So..that's who she is! YAY! Thank you show. I'd forgotten. Hey, I can't remember the names of half the people I work with.)
Shae: You know her? How would you ...you slept with her.
Tyrion: Well..
Shae: You did. (Oh come on Shae, of course he did, she was a whore.)
Tyrion: Once.
Shae: Once?
Tyrion: Okay, maybe twice...but it was before I met you.
I rather like Shae. Also like Shae's concern for Sansa, who she is attempting to protect. Although I don't remember Shae trying to protect Sansa in the books, just the opposite actually. Shae was not nice in the books and a bit whiny. Here she is much more likable.
Sansa also is coming across as a bit brighter than I remember. She's trying to say as little as possible. The Queen of Thorns (okay Diana Rigg) sort of coaxes the truth about Joffrey out of her. Honestly, I don't know why...it's not like Joffrey won't show his stripes soon on his own. Joffrey, methinks, has the hots for Margarey, who is a far better and much deadlier match than Sansa. Joffrey was actually safer with Sansa. Margarey wants power and to be Queen. The scene with Margarey and Joffrey playing with Joffrey's new bow which he got to win over Margarey...was intriguing. In the space of ten minutes, the writers got across two things: 1) Joffrey can be seduced and wants Margarey, and 2) Maragrey is planning on killing Joffrey the first chance she gets...he's basically married his mother. Talk about just desserts.
* The actors playing the kids in this series are rather talented. Bran - is a marvel, beautiful kid and very expressive, as is Jojen and his sister, Mirrin (who are two of my favorite characters in the books). So too is Ayra - love the actress playing that character, also love the character.
* Jamie and Breen's sword-fight was shorter, but well done, she was beating him. Which is what obtains Jamie's respect. They have an interesting relationship. And I adore the actress they cast as Breen. The actors also have chemistry, and she is so much bigger than he is, which is striking - since he's not a small man. Watching him bug her and do everything possible to get her to break down her guard, so he can get a chance to escape - was interesting and well written. They managed to shorten it a bit, in part because they got rid of the cousin in the last season. In the books, Jamie is traveling with Breen and his cousin. They end up in a boat, almost get killed, but survive. Jamie shaves his head so he won't be recognized and grows a beard. Then the find a village, where the cousin gets himself killed, it's here that Jamie breaks free finally and fights Breen - until they are captured by the Goat. In the tv series - it doesn't take nearly as long and is more compelling. Although Jamie, admittedly, comes out nicer and less of an asshole in the books.
(ie. He didn't kill his cousin to escape a cell and actually mourns the man's loss.)
Eh...don't have much more to say. Am sort of hot, with a dull head-ache that I can't take anything for, and a bit of a back-ache. So will stop now. And watch tv.
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no subject
Date: 2013-04-10 01:53 am (UTC)Yes (probably?).
As I recall Theon disappears completely from the third and fourth books... And I'm guessing that HBO didn't want to lose the actor for years and years.... But we'll see what they end up doing w/him.
I kind of like having the TV show being a little different from the books (it keeps me on my toes).
I saw the writer of the comics 'Walking Dead' on The Nerdist and he said that he sees the TV show as a kind of 'do over' from the comics. He feels free to keep characters alive who died in the comic, or to kill off characters who lived in the comics. He doesn't see any reason to have the TV show follow the comics closely at all. And I kind of liked his attitude. It is like the comics and the TV show are different universes/realities and serve slightly different purposes even though they are involved with what is ultimately the same story.
I hope you feel better soon.
no subject
Date: 2013-04-10 03:35 am (UTC)Theon doesn't disappear. Instead he's referred to as "Reek". It's complicated in the books, but, simplifying, Ramsay Bolton is a sadistic fiend who keeps a minion with him at all times named "Reek". There are multiple "Reek"s, as Ramsay eventually tortures them so much that they die. That's what's happening to Theon. We don't see the torture in the books, but the results get implied. The torture completely destroys Theon.
no subject
Date: 2013-04-10 03:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-04-10 03:40 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-04-10 03:44 am (UTC)Ok, I checked the Wiki. We're both sort of right:
"A piece of Theon Greyjoy's skin is delivered to Catelyn Stark during the Red Wedding. Theon is reportedly being flayed alive by Ramsay Snow at the Dreadfort."
You're right that we don't see the torture in the books, so Theon/Reek doesn't appear as a character. But the torture did happen in that book. I call it 70-30 in your favor. :)
no subject
Date: 2013-04-10 05:22 pm (UTC)And I'm still hoping that HBO might depart from the books a bit here... but we'll see what happens.
no subject
Date: 2013-04-10 09:37 pm (UTC)But I was already spoiled on something really really horrible happening to Theon in DoD, just not what.
no subject
Date: 2013-04-10 09:50 pm (UTC)And now are bringing forward many of the Theon flashbacks from ADWD to S3. So in a way they are spoiling me - although I already knew that House Bolton really tortures the heck out of Theon.
Makes sense they are bringing stuff forward from other books - Martin has a non-linear narrative style - he tells by point of view not chronologically.
I realized this today while reading ADWD..
Spoilers
*
*
*
*
*
I hit upon Davos' pov and I thought, wait...didn't he die in Feast? But ADWD is taking place before, during and after Feast. Very confusing.
no subject
Date: 2013-04-10 04:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-04-10 10:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-04-10 10:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-04-10 10:18 pm (UTC)Quite true.
Writers (John Le Carre/GRRM) actually prefer works that do not adhere strictly to the original. (IT's only their crazy anal-retentive fans who have problem with this - and unfortunately Song of ICe and Fire has some insanely anal-retentive fans, who have way too much time on their hands... )
For me? It depends on the work. I have no knowledge of the Walking Dead comics, so don't care. And with GRRM, there are some changes that are actually working very well for me. In some respects they work better than what Martin did in the books (which appears to be Martin's attitude as well).
Martin hasn't really planned this all out, he's making it up as he goes to a certain extent. Which means he writes himself into traps occassionally that he can't get out of. That said - I think they screwed up a bit with Jon Snow's story - in the books it is rather clear that the guy Snow killed (and reluctantly) he did to go undercover with Mance Ryder - he's undercover the whole time, and lying to Ryder. Here - it's not that clear and it appears he is changing alliances to a degree. I'm also on the fence about Jamie - who actually comes across as far more ambiguous in the books - so his arc isn't so drastic. He doesn't kill his cousin - he'd never would have done that in the books, and when he talks to Catelynn, he makes it clear he didn't hire a hitman to kill Bran, he'd have done it himself. The Bran assasination attempt got dropped a bit by the tv series. Tyrion solves it in Clash but comes up with the wrong person, and discovers who did it in Storm as does Jamie, which is important to both those characters arcs, and highly ironic in regards to Robert Barrathon and Ned Stark.
Also, I think the book readers will rebel in droves if the tv writers do not do Brienne/Jamie right, or the Red Wedding correctly. But I think the tv writers will...because GRRM is writing the episode with Jamie/Brienne and the Bear, and the tv writers can't wait to do Red Wedding. Sadistic writers.
Seriously, I've decided we human beings can be incredibly sadistic creatures.
But...there are other things they've changed that work. Maragery/Joffrey scenes work. Also...showing Shae outside of Tyrion's pov works. As does the whole Roz arc, and Catelynn's scene with the medic/Rob's wife. I actually like what they are doing with Catelynn and Rob - who are more likable here than they were in the books. Catelynn actually was more likable in Storm.
On Walking Dead - they did change things. Shane dies quickly in the comics, they kept him alive longer in the series. And Andrea is still alive in the comics and a fan favorite, but killed in the series. I'm not happy with her arc in the series - she was my favorite character. Luckily they introduced Michonne, the black couple that I adore and can't remember the names of, and built up Grace, Glenn, and Darryl's characters - or I'd have jumped ship.
Andrea's arc makes sense in the tv series...but I'm curious how it was handled in the comics.
Then there's tv shows/films that become comics - this never has worked for me. I can't read Battlestar Galatica Comics, Star Trek comics, Star Wars
comics, Farscape comics, Doctor Who comics, or Buffy comics. I find them incredibly silly and juvenile - as if all the magic of the tv series has been bleached out of them, and we've been left with campy one-dimensional teen cliches. Archie comics does Sci-fi. Sorry to be so critical - but I love graphic novels when done well. And tv shows as comics...don't work.
TV writers often, not always suck at comics. Brian Vaughn and Neil Gaiman started as comic book writers, so don't count. Novels to comics work better for some reason. Also comics to tv shows are fine. It's the tv shows to comics that has never worked for me.
no subject
Date: 2013-04-10 10:49 pm (UTC)But when you take a really good movie or TV show and you have an inferior writer write the comics and/or novelization then you have a piece of crap. I'm definitely not defending anything about the Buffy comics since Joss hasn't paid any attention to them throughout the last year.
And I do think that one of HBO's strengths is that they aren't trying to follow the books closely. The shifting POVs are working fine for GRRM, but they wouldn't work in the same way for the show, and of course in the show they can open things up and really show us things that were only mentioned in the books (like Margery winning over the towns people, under cutting the Lannisters). Showing instead of telling is always better on TV and in movies.
I love that Black couple in Walking Dead too, but like you I haven't read the comics. I understand that fans of the comics had been dying for the character Tyreese (the Black man played by Chad L. Coleman) because he was huge in the comics but hadn't appeared until the end of the 3rd season on the TV show. He has such a good energy and stability in what has become an increasingly crazy world.
no subject
Date: 2013-04-11 01:46 am (UTC)Completely agree on this. I was annoyed at the way they played it, and there doesn't seem to be any intrinsic reason for failing to make things clear.
I'd say the same about Dany's visions in the HOTU and having Jaqen kill The Tickler. No reason I can see for the changes, and they seem likely to affect the future arc of the characters.