Dance of Dragons update
Apr. 14th, 2013 07:10 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkatDance with Dragons update - am about 16% of the way through. It's Kindle, we never know what page we are on. Impossible to discuss without spoilers.
* Reek - yes, I finally got to the Reek chapter. And Reek's chapter is appropriately enough placed directly after Danerys comment that she may well be a monster herself for unleashing fire-breathing and child eating dragons on the world. OR unmercifully caging them. It's a toss-up frankly. Eh, sorry, Dany, Lord Ramsey Snow, the Bastard of Bolton, has you beat, hands down.
Two things came to mind while reading this: 1) GRRM appears to be obsessed with food - people are constantly eating in these books. And enjoying whatever it is they are eating.
(Apparently there is a Game of Thrones cookbook? I wonder if it has cooked rat in it? Or raw rat?) OR if they aren't eating, they are starving - to the point that they will literally eat anything, including either a rat or their own fingers. 2) Do we really need to know the degree to which Lord Bolton tortures people? Is there point to it? Is it plot oriented?
Also, I don't know about you, but I'm really hoping that the television writers decide to refrain from showing the Theon Greyjoy arc in its entirety... But if last week's episode is any indication, I doubt it. Plus HBO. Which means...we'll probably get more graphic details then we got in the books (making the books look relatively tame in comparison) - oh joy.
Gotta love sadistic television writers. Is it just me or is today's tv a wee bit on the violent/sadistic side of the fence?
So far not finding the storyline funny. Gross, maybe. Plus this is clearly occurring before certain events in Feast - because I clearly remember the Bastard of Bolton picking up the fake Arya Stark and riding off with her. (I think it was Jolie? Sansa's lady-in-waiting/friend and in which case? Damn, that poor girl does not deserve what Bolton will do to her when he figures out she's not Ayra. Which he will because Theon will recognize her.)
Why am I getting this storyline?
Whoever said that GRRM overwrote...wasn't kidding. He did. Massively. There was no need for two books. He could have cut oodles of stuff, without any affect on the plot or story whatsoever. This reminds me of Stephen King's the Stand, which also was over-written. And Reek reminds me a bit of King's beloved The Kid chapter in the Stand, but a heck of lot more gruesome and weirdly more compelling. Maybe I'm sadistic? (Don't answer that. Rhetorical.)
* Bran - actually enjoying the Bran chapters the most. Which is odd, since they bored me in the prior books. But Bran's story is finally taking off. And he's finally made it to the three-eyed crow and the children of the forest, which aren't actually kids at all. Here we begin to delve into dark fantasy and surrealism. The three-eyed crow is a creature that has a root growing out of one eye, moss sprouting from his cheek, and mushrooms growing out of his forehead. Oh dear, I hope this isn't poor Bran's fate.
He tells Bran, who is a warg, that while he'll never walk again - he will fly. Bran had gone to find him in the hopes he would cure him so he could walk. Bran does manage to save Hodor and himself, by jumping into Hodor's body.
The weird thing about these books - is at times you feel like you are reading six different books at once. Bran's story feels like a young adult dark fantasy novel, Danery's a young adult fantasy - Arabian Nights or Dragon Prince - or something by Guy Gaverial Kay, Reek's - a horror novel by somebody like Stephen King or Stephen King's sadistic brother assuming he has one, Tyrion's - a literary Alexandra Dumas tale by way of Chaucer, Davos - Moby Dick, and Jon Snow - an coming of age horror fantasy with zombies.
Also, again the obsession with food. Bran is starving half the time. Now finally, he gets satisfied, but it's at the expense of his friend the Tall Elk - who Coldhands finally had to kill to give them all meat, and well it was the Tall Elk's time (he'd either died of starvation or the cold, not sure which.)
* Jon Snow - is not a happy camper. Being head ranger is hard. He's struggling like Danerys is. Both have to deal with death. Neither can be friends with anyone or have love.
And they aren't certain they can trust a soul. Lots of parallels. If I didn't know any better, I'd say they were related (wait maybe they are - depends on who you talk to).
He admires Vallah, Mance Ryder's sister-in-law. Who continues to resist. Why Stannis hasn't killed her yet - I don't know. Maybe female rulers don't bring as much power from the flame?
He's even forgoing meals. (He's apparently the only one who doesn't care that much about eating or rarely eats. Yet keeps having food shoved at him - granted it's not that great, but still - be happy you have something, Jon.)
* Tyrion - not to be outdone, Tyrion too is obsessed with eating and drinking. Seriously, I haven't read a book this obsessed with food since...well Feast of Crows.
What is it with the author and food? I wouldn't say it necessarily makes me hungry - frankly most of the food is rather unappetizing at the moment. But everything in these books seems to take place around eating.
Right now, Tyrion would give anything to get another drink - in part to deal with sea-sickness. He'd also like to boink the Septa. Tyrion is a rather lusty lad, for his height and not really all that discriminating. Not that he can afford to be.
He's journeying towards Dany, who unbeknowest to Tyrion has in the previous chapter been warned not to trust him or his co-horts by a vision of Quiath - who I think died in the second or first book. At least I think that's who she is referring to with her latest riddle - about the pale horse, the lion, and the mummer's dragon and not to trust any of them.
I'm with Dany - enough of riddles. Loved Dany's response - "of course I know my path - to go forward means to go backward, to go west, I must go east, to go south, I must go north.
And I will have three dragons for three riders, three loves and three betrayals...eh, enough with riddles." Yes, it's not like these books aren't confusing and convoluted enough.
I think the writer gets bored of his own plot and has to come up with new ways to entertain himself.
Personally, I'm not sure why she shouldn't trust Tyrion. Tyrion has no reason to betray Dany, will except if there's something in it for him...then absolutely.
*Dany - like Jon Snow is struggling with being a ruler. Her task is a bit harder. She has responsibility of a million people, Jon just has to worry about the wall and the rangers.
Plus Dany has to control the eating habits of three very big dragons, Jon just has to deal with a direwolf - which he can jump in and out of. And...Jon has more people he can trust than Dany does. So sue me, I like Dany better than Jon.
Also say what you will about Martin, he does create extremely strong female characters, who are as versatile and multi-faceted as the male characters.
Dany is struggling with what to do with her children, her dragons, and how to safeguard the people she is ruling from her children's hunger. Interesting dilemma. How to control monsters.
I'm enjoying the books here and there...the epigrammatic phrasing at the end of each chapter is great. Also some great characters. But I wish the writer didn't feel he had to tell me everything. Was skimming through a good bit of Dany and Jon's chapters. Tempted to do the same with Reek's.
Should be noted - that gruesome/gory scenes in books do not tend to bother me that much. In TV shows or movies on the other hand...I think it's because I'm a visual person who thinks in pictures - so with words, I can control the image more, skip over it, but with pictures, less easy to do.
* Reek - yes, I finally got to the Reek chapter. And Reek's chapter is appropriately enough placed directly after Danerys comment that she may well be a monster herself for unleashing fire-breathing and child eating dragons on the world. OR unmercifully caging them. It's a toss-up frankly. Eh, sorry, Dany, Lord Ramsey Snow, the Bastard of Bolton, has you beat, hands down.
Two things came to mind while reading this: 1) GRRM appears to be obsessed with food - people are constantly eating in these books. And enjoying whatever it is they are eating.
(Apparently there is a Game of Thrones cookbook? I wonder if it has cooked rat in it? Or raw rat?) OR if they aren't eating, they are starving - to the point that they will literally eat anything, including either a rat or their own fingers. 2) Do we really need to know the degree to which Lord Bolton tortures people? Is there point to it? Is it plot oriented?
Also, I don't know about you, but I'm really hoping that the television writers decide to refrain from showing the Theon Greyjoy arc in its entirety... But if last week's episode is any indication, I doubt it. Plus HBO. Which means...we'll probably get more graphic details then we got in the books (making the books look relatively tame in comparison) - oh joy.
Gotta love sadistic television writers. Is it just me or is today's tv a wee bit on the violent/sadistic side of the fence?
So far not finding the storyline funny. Gross, maybe. Plus this is clearly occurring before certain events in Feast - because I clearly remember the Bastard of Bolton picking up the fake Arya Stark and riding off with her. (I think it was Jolie? Sansa's lady-in-waiting/friend and in which case? Damn, that poor girl does not deserve what Bolton will do to her when he figures out she's not Ayra. Which he will because Theon will recognize her.)
Why am I getting this storyline?
Whoever said that GRRM overwrote...wasn't kidding. He did. Massively. There was no need for two books. He could have cut oodles of stuff, without any affect on the plot or story whatsoever. This reminds me of Stephen King's the Stand, which also was over-written. And Reek reminds me a bit of King's beloved The Kid chapter in the Stand, but a heck of lot more gruesome and weirdly more compelling. Maybe I'm sadistic? (Don't answer that. Rhetorical.)
* Bran - actually enjoying the Bran chapters the most. Which is odd, since they bored me in the prior books. But Bran's story is finally taking off. And he's finally made it to the three-eyed crow and the children of the forest, which aren't actually kids at all. Here we begin to delve into dark fantasy and surrealism. The three-eyed crow is a creature that has a root growing out of one eye, moss sprouting from his cheek, and mushrooms growing out of his forehead. Oh dear, I hope this isn't poor Bran's fate.
He tells Bran, who is a warg, that while he'll never walk again - he will fly. Bran had gone to find him in the hopes he would cure him so he could walk. Bran does manage to save Hodor and himself, by jumping into Hodor's body.
The weird thing about these books - is at times you feel like you are reading six different books at once. Bran's story feels like a young adult dark fantasy novel, Danery's a young adult fantasy - Arabian Nights or Dragon Prince - or something by Guy Gaverial Kay, Reek's - a horror novel by somebody like Stephen King or Stephen King's sadistic brother assuming he has one, Tyrion's - a literary Alexandra Dumas tale by way of Chaucer, Davos - Moby Dick, and Jon Snow - an coming of age horror fantasy with zombies.
Also, again the obsession with food. Bran is starving half the time. Now finally, he gets satisfied, but it's at the expense of his friend the Tall Elk - who Coldhands finally had to kill to give them all meat, and well it was the Tall Elk's time (he'd either died of starvation or the cold, not sure which.)
* Jon Snow - is not a happy camper. Being head ranger is hard. He's struggling like Danerys is. Both have to deal with death. Neither can be friends with anyone or have love.
And they aren't certain they can trust a soul. Lots of parallels. If I didn't know any better, I'd say they were related (wait maybe they are - depends on who you talk to).
He admires Vallah, Mance Ryder's sister-in-law. Who continues to resist. Why Stannis hasn't killed her yet - I don't know. Maybe female rulers don't bring as much power from the flame?
He's even forgoing meals. (He's apparently the only one who doesn't care that much about eating or rarely eats. Yet keeps having food shoved at him - granted it's not that great, but still - be happy you have something, Jon.)
* Tyrion - not to be outdone, Tyrion too is obsessed with eating and drinking. Seriously, I haven't read a book this obsessed with food since...well Feast of Crows.
What is it with the author and food? I wouldn't say it necessarily makes me hungry - frankly most of the food is rather unappetizing at the moment. But everything in these books seems to take place around eating.
Right now, Tyrion would give anything to get another drink - in part to deal with sea-sickness. He'd also like to boink the Septa. Tyrion is a rather lusty lad, for his height and not really all that discriminating. Not that he can afford to be.
He's journeying towards Dany, who unbeknowest to Tyrion has in the previous chapter been warned not to trust him or his co-horts by a vision of Quiath - who I think died in the second or first book. At least I think that's who she is referring to with her latest riddle - about the pale horse, the lion, and the mummer's dragon and not to trust any of them.
I'm with Dany - enough of riddles. Loved Dany's response - "of course I know my path - to go forward means to go backward, to go west, I must go east, to go south, I must go north.
And I will have three dragons for three riders, three loves and three betrayals...eh, enough with riddles." Yes, it's not like these books aren't confusing and convoluted enough.
I think the writer gets bored of his own plot and has to come up with new ways to entertain himself.
Personally, I'm not sure why she shouldn't trust Tyrion. Tyrion has no reason to betray Dany, will except if there's something in it for him...then absolutely.
*Dany - like Jon Snow is struggling with being a ruler. Her task is a bit harder. She has responsibility of a million people, Jon just has to worry about the wall and the rangers.
Plus Dany has to control the eating habits of three very big dragons, Jon just has to deal with a direwolf - which he can jump in and out of. And...Jon has more people he can trust than Dany does. So sue me, I like Dany better than Jon.
Also say what you will about Martin, he does create extremely strong female characters, who are as versatile and multi-faceted as the male characters.
Dany is struggling with what to do with her children, her dragons, and how to safeguard the people she is ruling from her children's hunger. Interesting dilemma. How to control monsters.
I'm enjoying the books here and there...the epigrammatic phrasing at the end of each chapter is great. Also some great characters. But I wish the writer didn't feel he had to tell me everything. Was skimming through a good bit of Dany and Jon's chapters. Tempted to do the same with Reek's.
Should be noted - that gruesome/gory scenes in books do not tend to bother me that much. In TV shows or movies on the other hand...I think it's because I'm a visual person who thinks in pictures - so with words, I can control the image more, skip over it, but with pictures, less easy to do.
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no subject
Date: 2013-04-15 12:43 am (UTC)As far as the Reek chapter goes-- pretty sure it's supposed to be 100% schadenfreude/karmic justice. Theon spent the last three books betraying his friends, ignoring any and all good advice, making embittered enemies of everyone, and just being a gigantic tool. This is his payment.I don't even know that it's a case of "he deserved it," either, because clearly no one deserves that treatment.
But, well, in Westeros, you reap what you sow, and Theon sowed a LOT of awful for himself. Kind of like Cersei when she decided to let the religious zealots form an army. You know that's not gonna end well.
As terrible as the events of the series can be... I do admire its dedication to making characters suffer exactly the consequences of their actions. Two characters made completely in-character decisions in the first book; Ned warned Cersei in an attempt to save her children, and Catelyn kidnapped Tyrion. And the ridiculous mess that follows is all because of those two choices.
no subject
Date: 2013-04-15 11:22 pm (UTC)Eh, far more complicated than that.
1. Ned decides to support Robert Baratheon, when his sister Lysanna takes off with Prince Rhaegar. (Allegedly was abducted). This results in Lysanna dying, Rhaegar dying, much slaughter, Jamie killing the Aeon Tarragyn, Cersei marrying Robert Barratheon, Robert taking the throne and an uneasy peace being contained by the two bitter spouses.)
2. Littlefinger who is in love with Catelynn is jilted by Catelynn and her father, for Ned Stark. And in revenge, romances Lyssa - who becomes pregnant with his kid but is forced to lose it. Lyssa is forced to wed the much older Jon Arryn, when she wanted Littlefinger. Lyssa hates Catelynn and her father as a result.
3. Jon Arryn who is made Hand by Robert Barratheon decides it is odd that all of Cersei's kids are blonds, and hunts down Barratheon's kids to see if they have the same hair color as Robert. He also decides to order his son, Robin, who is a bit too attached to Lyssa (his wife) and a wee bit too sickly, to be squired with either Stannis or Highgarden, can't remember which - except that Robin was being taken away from Lyssa. Instead of declaring over my dead body, Lyssa craftily poisons Jon Arryn (killing him) with Little-Finger's help. Then she sends a letter to her sister, Catelynn, claiming the Lannister's probably were responsible and hinting that Jon had discovered something. (That may have been Littlefinger's idea ).
4. Bran, whose parents let him climb every tower in Winterfell, stumbles upon Jamie and Cersei in a private moment. Jamie pushes him out of the tower, Bran becomes crippled but forgets what happened. Meanwhile Robert Barratheon within his son Joffrey's hearing, states someone should put Bran out of his misery, he's better off dead. Someone tries to kill Bran. The person who does it - frames Tyrion and the Lannisters. (It was Joffrey, who apparently overheard his Dad (or rather who he believes is his Dad) and took his Dad's words to heart. And Joffrey to get back at Tyrion for slapping him - frames Tyrion for the deed. Can't quite blame Catelynn for not figuring it out. )
5. Ned Stark decides to use his position as Hand to investigate Jon Arryn's death and what the Lannister's had to gain. And with the assistance of LittleFinger, who the Stark's trust because he was Catlynn's childhood friend and would clearly bare no grudge against Ned for cutting him down in duel when he tried to fight for Catelynn's hand in marriage, determines that clearly Cersei's kids aren't Robert's, and most likely Jamie's.
6. Ned being the stalwart and true guy that he is, albeit not quite the brightest bulb on the planet, decides to threaten Cersei with the information he obtained following the clues Littlefinger gave him. He tells Cersei that she has a week or two to get the heck out of dodge - go take your kids and hide. Because I plan on telling Robert that they aren't his but Jamie's. (Seriously, where does he think she can go?
Her father would kill her if he found out, then himself. And Jamie is on the Kingsguard - it would mean Jamie's execution. Her family would be dead. Stark has basically threatened everyone she loves with death.)
7. Realizing that he may have...ahem, underestimated Cersei, Ned trusts Littlefinger as his confidante and tells him what his plans are. He also tells Sansa - who clearly has a thing for Joffrey. Instead of just knocking both girls upside the head and sending them on their way or better yet, sending them off with Catelynn when she visits, and telling Catelynn to give up her crusade regarding Bran's would-be killer. But hey, we have to cut him some slack, since hind-sight is 20/20.
Ned and Catelynn's big mistake was in placing their trust in the wrong people. They trusted Robert Barratheon, a drunken boob of a man, Littlefinger, who as Tyrion states no one trusts (except for the stupid Starks), and Lyssa, who clearly carries a grudge and has an unnatural relationship with her kid.
no subject
Date: 2013-04-15 11:40 pm (UTC)Eh. It's been a while since I've read the Theon chapters in Game and Clash (I admittedly skimmed because Theon was annoying.) But he wasn't that bad.
Hardly as bad as Joffrey or a few other characters I can think of.
Plus...you can sort of see why Theon turned out the way he did - his father is an ass, his family harsh, he was handed over to the Stark's - who treated him like a servant and never really family - because he was given to them as part of a surrender agreement. They supported Rhaegar's side, so when they surrendered, Theon was handed over to the Stark's as punishment.
So, I respectfully disagree - what happens to Theon isn't 100% karmic justice. Nor is it what he deserves. Remember he did not kill Bran and Ricckon, he let them go and pretended to everyone that he had. Also, he does try to argue Rob's cause, but his family refuses to listen and more or less pushes him to fight against Rob. It's not as black and white as you paint it.
no subject
Date: 2013-04-15 01:27 am (UTC)I agree with flameraven that Theon sowed what he reaped. I'm sending my psychic sympathy to those who suffered maybe a bit less, but who deserve that sympathy a lot more. My sympathy is a zero sum game, you know. :)
no subject
Date: 2013-04-15 11:32 pm (UTC)I'd agree that in GRRM's books people reap what they sow, except...in some cases it seems to be overkill. (Ex: Rob Stark, Catelynn Stark, Theon, Brienne)
While in other cases they got off far too easy. (Ex: Joffrey, Tywin, Littlefinger.....)
It's hard to take it seriously at times - it's so far over the top.
no subject
Date: 2013-04-15 02:16 am (UTC)and of course the line... Reek rhymes with sneak....
Reek rhymes with leak.
GMMR is dark and weird.
Tonight's GoT was interesting, full of stuff I expected... and more.
no subject
Date: 2013-04-15 10:53 pm (UTC)Ayra is mentioned and Reek talks about her as Ayra Underfoot and how he remembers Sansa being prettier, and thinking Ned Stark might offer him as Ned's "ward", Sansa's hand in marriage, but clearly that was a childish wish. (Only Theon was Ned's ward - Ned didn't have any other wards.)
How Reek betrayed the Starks...smiling...and again something about being their ward and growing up with them.
Also..state how Reek - means rotting or reeking of vomit. And Ramsay likes Reek to be stinky and not clean.
Yep GMMR likes dark weird stuff - he's a classic horror writer and horror fan, with a thing for medieval battle recreations.