![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkatRather impressed by this episode and they are doing an excellent job of setting stuff up.
(I admittedly don't remember everything from the books, but I do know they changed a few things.)
* I do not remember Tywin Lannister ordering Cersei to marry Loras. But then again they weren't planning on Sansa marrying him either. It was his older, crippled brother - who we never see that was supposed to be her betrothed. The reason? Loras was a member of the Kings Guard and couldn't be married. That said, I think this worked better and was far more amusing. Cersei has a cheshire cat grin on her face up until her father orders her to marry someone -- she doesn't. Tyrion makes a valid case against being married off to Sansa, it's cruel to Sansa - but he seems to have forgotten that his father could care less.
What's fun about the episode is that it's clear Little Finger is manipulating things. Varys got the better of LittleFinger last week by convincing the Queen of Thorns to marry Sansa off to Loras. Which results in Sansa not agreeing to accompany Littlefinger. Meanwhile, Loras tells someone he shouldn't - someone who apparently works for Littlefinger that he has been promised to Sansa. Which Littlefinger passes on to Cersei - and Cersei tells her father in order to put a stop to it. Which he does. He doesn't want to give up the heir to the North, which he believes is Sansa, since as he puts it Rob Stark is as good as dead, and Ayra might as well be dead.
This is a clue by the way - that Tywin is up to something in regards to Rob Stark. Watch out Rob.
* Rob reminds a bit too much of his father for his own good. Everyone loves honorable Ned Stark but me. Honorable characters tend to self-righteous holier than thou jerks in books and in real life. *cough*Duba Bush*cough* They can't quite see past their own nostrils.
But you gotta love the flag waving and the Kenny Loggins theme music. Ned Stark isn't that different. He was a good solider. Stood by his friend and fellow solider Robert Barratheon through thick and thin, and a great classical hero. But if you examine those classical heroes a la Hercules and Odysseus...they aren't necessarily that heroic. They do some nasty things. Wars are nasty. There are no real heroes in wars, only killers. Even the war heroes will tell you that. And GRRM to give him credit, as well as the writers of the tv series, are hammering that point home.
In the beginning of Game of Thrones...Ned Stark takes his sons, Rob, Bran, and Jon to watch him execute a man who ran from the Night's Watch. A man who is clearly scared out of his wits. Who is cold. Hungry. And talking about the cold ones, the wights...monsters. But Ned refuses to listen. He executes him from deserting his post at the Night's Watch for being a coward. One wonders what would have happened if he had listened? And if you track your way through the entire tale - that question keeps popping up again and again...what if Catelynn or Ned had paused to listen? Ned doesn't listen to any of the Lannisters or Barratheon's advisers...he refuses to see what Robert, his dear friend is, or the uneasy peace that Cersei and Robert have maintained. Nor does he listen to his wife who questions his decision to become the Hand of a King, when in reality Ned is just a solider. He doesn't have the brains or wits for that position. Few do.
At any rate, poor dear honorable Ned's legacy continues...Robb makes the same mistakes his father did. He imprisons and executes the Karstarks, which were amongst his few remaining allies. He marries a woman that he falls for...the medic. (Who I don't dislike as much as everyone else on my flist does...we are at odds over a few things, my flist and I. But it is what it is.) Not thinking about the fact that he betrayed a promise that he had made to the Freys. He seems to think little of that promise in this episode, assuming that the Frey's will help him take Casterly Rock - that they will dismiss the slight. He doesn't know the Frey's nor does he realize the slight goes back further.
His plot relies on them. I'd forgotten that. When I saw that bit - I thought, oh, that's why he does what does regarding the Freys. Makes sense now.
* Jamie/Brienne - amongst my favorite portions of the books. I should confess that I read the books for the Jamie and Brienne scenes in Book 3. I ploughed through Game of Thrones and Clash of Kings to get there. I do not, however, much like what GRRM does with Jamie and Brienn after Storm. Actually I don't like what he does with any of the characters after Storm, which is amongst the reasons I'm thinking of giving up on the books after Dance With Dragons - it depends on what happens in that one.
That scene was brilliantly acted and filmed. In some respects I liked it better than the book. So much is conveyed with so little. Brienne standing up, naked, in anger and pride.
(The actress portraying Brienne - is beautiful by the way, more than she is described in the books.) And Jamie confessing that he trusted her. Apologizing. And then confessing to something far greater - to the private horror he'd witnessed and the horror of what he had to do. When she asks why he didn't tell Ned Stark, it occurred to me that he had, actually.
But Ned didn't listen. Ned only heard the things he wanted to hear, the things that validated Ned's world-view. That's the problem with people who are "honorable" - they only hear the beat of their own hearts, they only see in shades of black and white, they don't see anything they don't want to see. To people like Ned Stark - people are either good or evil, what they don't realize is in demonizing their enemies - they have become monsters themselves. Ned couldn't see - what Jamie does, and what Jamie states so well: "How could the wolf judge the lion?" Indeed. Do you know what wolves do in the wild? How they hunt?
They are no better than lions. Jamie was caught between a rock and a hard place. He regrets killing the King, but what was he to do? He never states it was honorable. At least Jamie doesn't lie to himself, I wish I could say the same about the Starks. Perhaps if they were more honest with themselves...
What is great about this scene is how much it relies on showing us who these people are and not in the telling.
Other bits I liked? Ayra scenes with Bedric Dondarrion and The Hound - who listens as she rattles off the names of those she curses. And Bedric Dondarrion who tells her how many times the Red God has brought him back again with the Red Fire. Bedric Dondarrion is sort of mirror of Stannis...both depicting the horrors of the Red God, that both believe in.
They remind me of each other at any rate. Both carry flaming swords. Both rely on the Red Fire. Both have red haired priests, kissed by fire. And Ayra's statement back to Bedric speaks volumes...
Ayra: can the red fire bring back a man without a head?
Bedric: I do not wish my fate on your father. I knew your father. I would not wish my life on him. He is better at rest, whereever that may be.
Ayra: I cannot say the same. I do wish it. I wish your LIFE.
Ned and Catelynn Stark's greatest failing was the life they condemned their daughters too.
And Stannis and Davos who are far more interesting here than in the books. I'm not sure why exactly. Maybe because we just get snippets as opposed to a 100 pages? Davos scene with Stannis daughter, Princess, was moving and touching. As was Stannis' scene with his daughter.
While Stannis' wife is creepy as all get out - I don't remember that from the books.
Stannis is more sympathetic here than in the books - but they are also not emphasizing or showing the fact that he was burning his brother's bastards alive to get power. That helps greatly.
And Ygritt/Jon Snow - everyone on my flist thinks she's incredibly skinny. First of all, she's supposed to be in the books. I remember that. I don't remember her being plump. Bad conditions and all that. Also, she doesn't seem that thin to me, but I have also been watching a lot of tv, and about 70% of the actresses are stick thin - you get used to it after awhile.
Overall amongst the best episodes of the series to date. I continue to adore the actors portraying the Lannisters...
(I admittedly don't remember everything from the books, but I do know they changed a few things.)
* I do not remember Tywin Lannister ordering Cersei to marry Loras. But then again they weren't planning on Sansa marrying him either. It was his older, crippled brother - who we never see that was supposed to be her betrothed. The reason? Loras was a member of the Kings Guard and couldn't be married. That said, I think this worked better and was far more amusing. Cersei has a cheshire cat grin on her face up until her father orders her to marry someone -- she doesn't. Tyrion makes a valid case against being married off to Sansa, it's cruel to Sansa - but he seems to have forgotten that his father could care less.
What's fun about the episode is that it's clear Little Finger is manipulating things. Varys got the better of LittleFinger last week by convincing the Queen of Thorns to marry Sansa off to Loras. Which results in Sansa not agreeing to accompany Littlefinger. Meanwhile, Loras tells someone he shouldn't - someone who apparently works for Littlefinger that he has been promised to Sansa. Which Littlefinger passes on to Cersei - and Cersei tells her father in order to put a stop to it. Which he does. He doesn't want to give up the heir to the North, which he believes is Sansa, since as he puts it Rob Stark is as good as dead, and Ayra might as well be dead.
This is a clue by the way - that Tywin is up to something in regards to Rob Stark. Watch out Rob.
* Rob reminds a bit too much of his father for his own good. Everyone loves honorable Ned Stark but me. Honorable characters tend to self-righteous holier than thou jerks in books and in real life. *cough*Duba Bush*cough* They can't quite see past their own nostrils.
But you gotta love the flag waving and the Kenny Loggins theme music. Ned Stark isn't that different. He was a good solider. Stood by his friend and fellow solider Robert Barratheon through thick and thin, and a great classical hero. But if you examine those classical heroes a la Hercules and Odysseus...they aren't necessarily that heroic. They do some nasty things. Wars are nasty. There are no real heroes in wars, only killers. Even the war heroes will tell you that. And GRRM to give him credit, as well as the writers of the tv series, are hammering that point home.
In the beginning of Game of Thrones...Ned Stark takes his sons, Rob, Bran, and Jon to watch him execute a man who ran from the Night's Watch. A man who is clearly scared out of his wits. Who is cold. Hungry. And talking about the cold ones, the wights...monsters. But Ned refuses to listen. He executes him from deserting his post at the Night's Watch for being a coward. One wonders what would have happened if he had listened? And if you track your way through the entire tale - that question keeps popping up again and again...what if Catelynn or Ned had paused to listen? Ned doesn't listen to any of the Lannisters or Barratheon's advisers...he refuses to see what Robert, his dear friend is, or the uneasy peace that Cersei and Robert have maintained. Nor does he listen to his wife who questions his decision to become the Hand of a King, when in reality Ned is just a solider. He doesn't have the brains or wits for that position. Few do.
At any rate, poor dear honorable Ned's legacy continues...Robb makes the same mistakes his father did. He imprisons and executes the Karstarks, which were amongst his few remaining allies. He marries a woman that he falls for...the medic. (Who I don't dislike as much as everyone else on my flist does...we are at odds over a few things, my flist and I. But it is what it is.) Not thinking about the fact that he betrayed a promise that he had made to the Freys. He seems to think little of that promise in this episode, assuming that the Frey's will help him take Casterly Rock - that they will dismiss the slight. He doesn't know the Frey's nor does he realize the slight goes back further.
His plot relies on them. I'd forgotten that. When I saw that bit - I thought, oh, that's why he does what does regarding the Freys. Makes sense now.
* Jamie/Brienne - amongst my favorite portions of the books. I should confess that I read the books for the Jamie and Brienne scenes in Book 3. I ploughed through Game of Thrones and Clash of Kings to get there. I do not, however, much like what GRRM does with Jamie and Brienn after Storm. Actually I don't like what he does with any of the characters after Storm, which is amongst the reasons I'm thinking of giving up on the books after Dance With Dragons - it depends on what happens in that one.
That scene was brilliantly acted and filmed. In some respects I liked it better than the book. So much is conveyed with so little. Brienne standing up, naked, in anger and pride.
(The actress portraying Brienne - is beautiful by the way, more than she is described in the books.) And Jamie confessing that he trusted her. Apologizing. And then confessing to something far greater - to the private horror he'd witnessed and the horror of what he had to do. When she asks why he didn't tell Ned Stark, it occurred to me that he had, actually.
But Ned didn't listen. Ned only heard the things he wanted to hear, the things that validated Ned's world-view. That's the problem with people who are "honorable" - they only hear the beat of their own hearts, they only see in shades of black and white, they don't see anything they don't want to see. To people like Ned Stark - people are either good or evil, what they don't realize is in demonizing their enemies - they have become monsters themselves. Ned couldn't see - what Jamie does, and what Jamie states so well: "How could the wolf judge the lion?" Indeed. Do you know what wolves do in the wild? How they hunt?
They are no better than lions. Jamie was caught between a rock and a hard place. He regrets killing the King, but what was he to do? He never states it was honorable. At least Jamie doesn't lie to himself, I wish I could say the same about the Starks. Perhaps if they were more honest with themselves...
What is great about this scene is how much it relies on showing us who these people are and not in the telling.
Other bits I liked? Ayra scenes with Bedric Dondarrion and The Hound - who listens as she rattles off the names of those she curses. And Bedric Dondarrion who tells her how many times the Red God has brought him back again with the Red Fire. Bedric Dondarrion is sort of mirror of Stannis...both depicting the horrors of the Red God, that both believe in.
They remind me of each other at any rate. Both carry flaming swords. Both rely on the Red Fire. Both have red haired priests, kissed by fire. And Ayra's statement back to Bedric speaks volumes...
Ayra: can the red fire bring back a man without a head?
Bedric: I do not wish my fate on your father. I knew your father. I would not wish my life on him. He is better at rest, whereever that may be.
Ayra: I cannot say the same. I do wish it. I wish your LIFE.
Ned and Catelynn Stark's greatest failing was the life they condemned their daughters too.
And Stannis and Davos who are far more interesting here than in the books. I'm not sure why exactly. Maybe because we just get snippets as opposed to a 100 pages? Davos scene with Stannis daughter, Princess, was moving and touching. As was Stannis' scene with his daughter.
While Stannis' wife is creepy as all get out - I don't remember that from the books.
Stannis is more sympathetic here than in the books - but they are also not emphasizing or showing the fact that he was burning his brother's bastards alive to get power. That helps greatly.
And Ygritt/Jon Snow - everyone on my flist thinks she's incredibly skinny. First of all, she's supposed to be in the books. I remember that. I don't remember her being plump. Bad conditions and all that. Also, she doesn't seem that thin to me, but I have also been watching a lot of tv, and about 70% of the actresses are stick thin - you get used to it after awhile.
Overall amongst the best episodes of the series to date. I continue to adore the actors portraying the Lannisters...
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2013-05-03 03:11 am (UTC)But that makes it harder for things to work out as they will...
I'm hoping you'll like A Dance with Dragons. I thought it was a big improvement over the previous two.
no subject
Date: 2013-05-03 09:42 pm (UTC)But I'm admittedly only 29-30% of the way through. So it could change. And I'm taking a break from it.
Actually - I think they can work it out with Robb marrying the medic. There's another way to show that manipulation and a far clearer and less convoluted one. The books were so convoluted that I didn't figure out what Tywin Lannister did until almost at the end of Feast, and someone (who had read the books more than once) had to point it out to me. They couldn't have done it that way on TV.
So far the tv plot makes a lot more sense. Although I wonder if they'll ever reveal who hired the assassin to kill Bran or who killed Jon Arryn in the tv series? Both are revealed in Book 3.