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Jul. 6th, 2013 06:49 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkatSlowly making my way through the items saved on my DVR, down to the dregs now...or the items that I thought I'd like and am more ambivalent about. Wishing I'd taped season 2 of Scandel, because it looked like fun.
Tower Heist - which stars Ben Stiller, Eddie Murphy, Matthew Broderick and Alan Alda, plus an under-used Judd Hirsch, is not as funny or entertaining as it should be, yet more entertaining than Moonrise Kingdom. They basically steal from a Wall Street Swindler. It's a fun caper romp. With a moralistic ending. The difference between the 21st Century and the 1990s, is the caper romps in the 90s were less moralistic.
Have decided to stick with Georgette Heyer's The Devil's Cub, perhaps it gets better? Admittedly curious about how the Marquise abducts the heroine, only to abandon her in France. I'm only 10% of the way through. Skimming a lot. Heyer repeats herself. The first 10% seems to be about the hero killing a highwaymen on the way to his Aunt's. And they talk about it ad naesaum, to the point at any rate that I wanted to scream at the writer, yes, yes, I get it - he killed a highwayman and left him unceremoniously on the side of the road, move on please. And I thought daytime serials talked things to death - apparently they learned it from Heyer.
Ships...you know, when I first joined fandom way back when, I was confused by this term. WTF? I thought. Then of course there was "The Shipping News" which was even more confusing.
Not to be confused with the book by E. Annie Proloux that resided on my mother's shelves and later mine, only to be made into an ill-conceived movie in either the 1980s or 1990s. I don't remember the book or the movie, so honestly don't know if I read them or my mother just told me the entire plot and story - which she likes to do. Mother and I have similar taste and we love to analyze cultural mediums to death. This makes for rather long phone calls. Thank god, long distance is relatively cheap nowadays. Mother is not much of a letter writer, never has been. Unfortunately.
Anyhow, back to ships...the shipping news was basically a slot on a popular spoiler fanboard back in the day which permitted people shipping various characters to report on those ships, share vids, or fight over them, without taking over the board. Back then fanboards were on voy which crashed whenever usage passed 200-500 hits. Which happened a lot. Now, not a problem. Plus Voy is rarely used. I miss voy...you could read subject headings and choose which thread to pick, old threads jumped to archives. Much easier to follow that what took its place in my opinion.
The most popular ships in the Buffyverse or Buffy fandom were associated with "Buffy" and were either Buffy/Angel, Buffy/Spike or Buffy/Xander ( a group of shippers who were living in denial and clearly hadn't analyzed many tv serials or book serials enough to realize there is no way in heck the writers will put those two together - it is the kiss of death to a serial. You never put the hero and his/her side-kick in a romance. Any more than Philip Marlow dated Girl Friday. You'd have to kill off the side-kick. The writers were following comic book and serial formula far too closely to ever go there. I tried to point this out to them...but I might as well have painted a target on my head.) There were a few Buffy/Riley shippers lurking, but they wisely stayed silent. Also quite a few Buffy/Faith - who didn't.
I admittedly enjoyed the fights between the Buffy/Faith and Buffy/Xander and Xander/Faith fans. They were fun.
I was one of those odd fans who basically followed the thread of the story, the type of fan that writers like. I'd never tell a writer what to do. Consider that embarrassing and blasphemy, besides I've read comic book serials and watch daytime serials - I'm used to writers doing insane things and pissing me off. Sort of expect it. That's why I sought out spoilers.
With Buffy? I went from being an obsessed Buffy/Angel shipper, to obsessively shipping the far more interesting, albeit impossible ships of Buffy/Spike and Angel/Darla. Those were perfect examples of Star Crossed Lovers, in part because the lovers were equals, and they had history. Angel/Darla more or less killed Buffy/Angel for me, and Buffy/Spike finished the job. I liked volatile ships, none of that sappy sentimental lovey dovey stuff for me.
People used to argue, what, don't you want Buffy to be happy? I'm like..well,no, frankly don't care. She's NOT real. Fictional character. I'm watching an entertaining what-if scenario. Not a home vid of family and friends. She's not my friend or my relative or a human being living in the world that I should worry about. She's a fictional character like Hamlet...who plays out our nightmares, so we can learn and not have to do it ourselves.
I apparently don't watch tv the same way some folks do - while I care for the characters, I'm more interested in being surprised and given food for thought, than watching them ride off happily ever after. Yes, it would be nice, but isn't expected. Particularly not for a horror serial. Besides, I'm not convinced happy = marriage and babies. It does for some, but not for everyone. We do not live in a one size fits all world.
Also, I don't see them as real. Fans say they don't either - but I wonder. Because they appear to treat the characters as real. Like they exist in some parallel universe and we're observing them. Which bewilders me.
I get falling in love with a character - I have. But to the point in which the line between real and fantasy is blurred? Reminds me of the story of The Velvteen Rabbit or another story, I vaguely remember where the characters become real due to the fans obsessive belief that they are.
For me, there's always...an intellectual gap between me and what I'm a fan of. I get emotional, but I'm also critical of it. I like to pull it apart. Mainly because what I'm a fan of is the puzzle, or the enigma of it. Once I figure it out...I lose interest.
Tower Heist - which stars Ben Stiller, Eddie Murphy, Matthew Broderick and Alan Alda, plus an under-used Judd Hirsch, is not as funny or entertaining as it should be, yet more entertaining than Moonrise Kingdom. They basically steal from a Wall Street Swindler. It's a fun caper romp. With a moralistic ending. The difference between the 21st Century and the 1990s, is the caper romps in the 90s were less moralistic.
Have decided to stick with Georgette Heyer's The Devil's Cub, perhaps it gets better? Admittedly curious about how the Marquise abducts the heroine, only to abandon her in France. I'm only 10% of the way through. Skimming a lot. Heyer repeats herself. The first 10% seems to be about the hero killing a highwaymen on the way to his Aunt's. And they talk about it ad naesaum, to the point at any rate that I wanted to scream at the writer, yes, yes, I get it - he killed a highwayman and left him unceremoniously on the side of the road, move on please. And I thought daytime serials talked things to death - apparently they learned it from Heyer.
Ships...you know, when I first joined fandom way back when, I was confused by this term. WTF? I thought. Then of course there was "The Shipping News" which was even more confusing.
Not to be confused with the book by E. Annie Proloux that resided on my mother's shelves and later mine, only to be made into an ill-conceived movie in either the 1980s or 1990s. I don't remember the book or the movie, so honestly don't know if I read them or my mother just told me the entire plot and story - which she likes to do. Mother and I have similar taste and we love to analyze cultural mediums to death. This makes for rather long phone calls. Thank god, long distance is relatively cheap nowadays. Mother is not much of a letter writer, never has been. Unfortunately.
Anyhow, back to ships...the shipping news was basically a slot on a popular spoiler fanboard back in the day which permitted people shipping various characters to report on those ships, share vids, or fight over them, without taking over the board. Back then fanboards were on voy which crashed whenever usage passed 200-500 hits. Which happened a lot. Now, not a problem. Plus Voy is rarely used. I miss voy...you could read subject headings and choose which thread to pick, old threads jumped to archives. Much easier to follow that what took its place in my opinion.
The most popular ships in the Buffyverse or Buffy fandom were associated with "Buffy" and were either Buffy/Angel, Buffy/Spike or Buffy/Xander ( a group of shippers who were living in denial and clearly hadn't analyzed many tv serials or book serials enough to realize there is no way in heck the writers will put those two together - it is the kiss of death to a serial. You never put the hero and his/her side-kick in a romance. Any more than Philip Marlow dated Girl Friday. You'd have to kill off the side-kick. The writers were following comic book and serial formula far too closely to ever go there. I tried to point this out to them...but I might as well have painted a target on my head.) There were a few Buffy/Riley shippers lurking, but they wisely stayed silent. Also quite a few Buffy/Faith - who didn't.
I admittedly enjoyed the fights between the Buffy/Faith and Buffy/Xander and Xander/Faith fans. They were fun.
I was one of those odd fans who basically followed the thread of the story, the type of fan that writers like. I'd never tell a writer what to do. Consider that embarrassing and blasphemy, besides I've read comic book serials and watch daytime serials - I'm used to writers doing insane things and pissing me off. Sort of expect it. That's why I sought out spoilers.
With Buffy? I went from being an obsessed Buffy/Angel shipper, to obsessively shipping the far more interesting, albeit impossible ships of Buffy/Spike and Angel/Darla. Those were perfect examples of Star Crossed Lovers, in part because the lovers were equals, and they had history. Angel/Darla more or less killed Buffy/Angel for me, and Buffy/Spike finished the job. I liked volatile ships, none of that sappy sentimental lovey dovey stuff for me.
People used to argue, what, don't you want Buffy to be happy? I'm like..well,no, frankly don't care. She's NOT real. Fictional character. I'm watching an entertaining what-if scenario. Not a home vid of family and friends. She's not my friend or my relative or a human being living in the world that I should worry about. She's a fictional character like Hamlet...who plays out our nightmares, so we can learn and not have to do it ourselves.
I apparently don't watch tv the same way some folks do - while I care for the characters, I'm more interested in being surprised and given food for thought, than watching them ride off happily ever after. Yes, it would be nice, but isn't expected. Particularly not for a horror serial. Besides, I'm not convinced happy = marriage and babies. It does for some, but not for everyone. We do not live in a one size fits all world.
Also, I don't see them as real. Fans say they don't either - but I wonder. Because they appear to treat the characters as real. Like they exist in some parallel universe and we're observing them. Which bewilders me.
I get falling in love with a character - I have. But to the point in which the line between real and fantasy is blurred? Reminds me of the story of The Velvteen Rabbit or another story, I vaguely remember where the characters become real due to the fans obsessive belief that they are.
For me, there's always...an intellectual gap between me and what I'm a fan of. I get emotional, but I'm also critical of it. I like to pull it apart. Mainly because what I'm a fan of is the puzzle, or the enigma of it. Once I figure it out...I lose interest.
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no subject
Date: 2013-07-08 02:26 pm (UTC)This.
So, this.
I become quite irritated with folks who (usually for shipping reasons) decry "opposites attract" stories because "that wouldn't make you happy in real life."
Look, in real life, unless you're a drama queen, you like a little peace and quiet. In a STORY however, if you're telling a romance then you have to have friction. It's what drives a story.
Protagonists changing through the arc of a story is a story. If you want a romantic relationship integral to such a story, then the romantic figure has to be part and parcel of that change. This is simply the way that stories work.
If you want a drama free, solid relationship within a story, it can happen (see: Friday Night Lights and Mr. and Mrs. Coach) however, it's NOT a romance. Romance is not driving that plot. They are MENTORS and thus their stability is desirable. They allow the friction to occur in other types of stories.
But if the design is to have a romance in a plot, then quite simply, structurally, the desired halves of a romantic pairing have to function as elements to push one another out of their comfort zones into a new place emotionally. They have to challenge one another or the whole thing is flat.
It's not about what is desirable for stability-sake. Stability is after the whole thing is over. The whole process of story is in dealing with disorder, where things must change.
If two characters aren't going to challenge and CHANGE one another, you have a really, really flat pairing and little romantic story. It's structural not simply preference.
no subject
Date: 2013-07-08 10:42 pm (UTC)I think part of the problem is a lot of fans simply do not see Buffy or any Whedon series as a "soap opera" with a "romantic slant". Many Buffy fans saw Buffy as well Scooby Doo Where Are You - but better written. Teen sleuths solve the monster of the week. From their perspective, Buffy didn't become a soap until S6 and briefly in S2. They ignored those bits. Or they saw it as a dramatic horror serial in line with say...Bab 5 or Deep Space Nine or Doctor Who.
The difficulty was Buffy attracted a lot of people who do not as a matter of principle watch soap operas. I've lost count of how many posts I've read from die-hard fans denying that Buffy is a soap opera. Comic book attributes, yes, but not a soap opera. (Comic books as we both know have a lot similarities to soap operas and similar flaws. They really aren't that different, just directed towards different demographics.) I've equally lost count of the number of vehement posts declaring Buffy isn't a romance and Whedon isn't a romantic writer.
Which in some respects is true, I suppose, I've certainly argued it.
But, if you consider how many romance novelists have stated that Whedon did the romantic tropes really really well in Buffy....
Actually, I think he is a romantic writer - he certainly hits all the tropes and flaws of romances, and attempts in some places to subvert them, albeit not always well.
But - in many of these fights with fans - you are fighting with how they perceive the structure of the series. From their perspective the structure is closer to Friday Night Lights or Game of Thrones or Bones, not General Hospital, X-Men, or One Life to Live. But we both know better...it is closer to X-men and General Hospital. That's why it is cult and why it never got an Emmy. Because it is a gothic soap opera.
Structurally speaking, Buffy has more in common with Vamp Diaries than Game of Thrones, which is not a romance. But a lot of fans thought otherwise.