Least Favorite Buffy Episode and Favorite Books in a Series..

[shadowkat]

1. Beautiful day today, 50 degrees, sky a pristine blue, not a spot of clouds until evening. So took a rather long walk and ended up buying bed linings at Macy's in Downtown Brooklyn, which is a poor cousin to the Manhattan version.

2. Day 04 – Favorite book of your favorite series

The book meme from hell continues. I think this is easy only if you don't read that much or that varied.

Yes, I choose Harry Potter as favorite series but don't really have a favorite book in it. Like the series more as a whole.

So...

* Dorothy Dunnett's Chronicles of Lymond: Checkmate - the last book in the series is my favorite, for many reasons, mainly though the political maneuvering and how the heroine, the hero's wife, Phillippa manages to unravel his past history and discover who his father truly was.
She saves him in the book at great cost to herself, and sacrifice, which I found rather fascinating.

*Jim Butcher's Dresden Files - two favorites Dead Beat about Harry's father issues, and the wonderful Changes - where various plot points and revelations are made and resolved, opening up brand new ones.

* A Song of Ice and Fire by George RR Martin - Storm of Swords - that book has so many twists and turns and really fleshes out several of the characters, while getting rid of several characters that I'd gotten weary of, or changing them in a rather interesting way.

* Rachel Morgan/The Hollows series by Kim Harrison - The Outlaw Demon Wails and Pale Demon - for the exploration of the demon/elf war and the intriguing love/hate friendship between Rachel and Trent, that goes back to their childhood.


Day 05 – A book that makes you happy
Day 06 – A book that makes you sad
Day 07 – Most underrated book
Day 08 – Most overrated book
Day 09 – A book you thought you wouldn’t like but ended up loving
Day 10 – Favorite classic book
Day 11 – A book you hated
Day 12 – A book you used to love but don’t anymore
Day 13 – Your favorite writer
Day 14 – Favorite book of your favorite writer
Day 15 – Favorite male character
Day 16 – Favorite female character
Day 17 – Favorite quote from your favorite book
Day 18 – A book that disappointed you
Day 19 – Favorite book turned into a movie
Day 20 – Favorite romance book
Day 21 – Favorite book from your childhood
Day 22 – Favorite book you own
Day 23 – A book you wanted to read for a long time but still haven’t
Day 24 – A book that you wish more people have read
Day 25 – A character who you can relate to the most
Day 26 – A book that changed your opinion about something
Day 27 – The most surprising plot twist or ending
Day 28 – Favorite title
Day 29 – A book everyone hated but you liked
Day 30 – Your favorite book of all time


3. Day 07 - Least favorite episode of your favorite TV show

I like this meme much better.

Least favorite Buffy episode...ah there are so many to choose from. But the only one that really has no redeeming value in my opinion and truly screwed up the arc, is ...As You Were. At the time it aired, way back in 2002, I did my best to fanwank the heck out of it. Because it should have been brilliant, it should have been the counter-part to "Into the Woods". In fact to see how As You Were failed, all you have to do is look at Into the Woods and what was done right.
By no means a perfect episode, Into the Woods looks rather brilliant in comparison to As You Were.
And that's saying something.

I don't dislike As You Were because I'm a fan of Spike or a fan of Spuffy. But rather...for the following reasons:

* The demon egg plot came out of nowhere. Unlike Riley and the vamp whores in Into the Woods - which had been built up to over the course of at least four episodes, the demon egg bit dropped in out of the sky with Riley. There was no build up. Suddenly Spike is smuggling demon eggs in and out of his crypt, while he's having sex with Buffy either in his bed or above ground? Alrighty then. It's not that I don't think Spike would smuggle demon eggs, but this comes out of nowhere.
And it's never really addressed again, except as a joke.

* The monster that the demon eggs turn into is amongst the lamest monsters on the planet. Sam and Riley describe it as a scourge that killed an entire crew, yet it looks like the creature from the black lagoon, except less real. And they defeat it fairly easily. Hardly a dastardly weapon. After half a season with the Trio, who are actually more creepy and frightening than the demons or demon eggs or Spike for that matter, it was hard to take Sam and Riley's mission seriously.

* Sam and Riley act literally like Action Figures. Actually Action Figures have more life and are less stiff then these two. I've seen both actors in other things - this wasn't their fault. It was the writing and direction. Here - they came across as Mary and Marty Stu get married and take on monsters. Proof that writers should never write for characters they have crushes on, at least not without supervision.

* This episode will forever be known for the immortal Spike line: "Slayer, if I knew you were coming I'd have baked a cake". Proof that no one edited or proofed this climatic episode.

That's not all...we also have the chat between Willow and Sam about Dark Magic which is filled with cliches, and makes no sense - because why on earth would Willow confide in Sam or discuss such things with her?

The only good thing about the episode was the Xander/Anya scenes and they are actually the only characters that work in this episode. But even their scenes at this point are somewhat repetitive, more fighting, more listening to Xander's relatives fight, more worrying over the wedding. If you hadn't figured out by now that the wedding was not going to happen, you weren't paying attention.

Fans tried to make this episode work...in meta, in fanfic, etc, but it just doesn't. And it really needed to - for the rest of the season to work. If it had been written better or even directed better...it could have worked. There were ways they could have fixed it. Dropped hints about Spike smuggling the eggs earlier...maybe in Older and Far Away or Doublemeat Palace or even Dead Things?
It's almost as if the writers hadn't really plotted out the season ahead of time, they just knew the gist of it.



Day 08 - A show everyone should watch
Day 09 - Best scene ever
Day 10 - A show you thought you wouldn't like but ended up loving
Day 11 - A show that disappointed you
Day 12 - An episode you've watched more than 5 times
Day 13 - Favorite childhood show
Day 14 - Favorite male character
Day 15 - Favorite female character
Day 16 - Your guilty pleasure show
Day 17 - Favorite mini series
Day 18 - Favorite title sequence
Day 19 - Best TV show cast
Day 20 - Favorite kiss
Day 21 - Favorite ship
Day 22 - Favorite series finale
Day 23 - Most annoying character
Day 24 - Best quote
Day 25 - A show you plan on watching (old or new)
Day 26 - OMG WTF? Season finale
Day 27 - Best pilot episode
Day 28 - First TV show obsession
Day 29 - Current TV show obsession
Day 30 - Saddest character death.

Comments

[cactuswatcher.livejournal.com]

I have to say Sam was horribly written. One moment she's trying to butter up Willow for being a powerful witch deep into magic and the next moment telling Willow how her group lost not one but two mages because they were too deep into magic. Huh?? It wasn't the only weird thing about her designed to please everyone in the audience that ended up making a lot of people hate her instead. I didn't hate her but she could have been a lot better.

I think G. I. Joe, the action figure was always the model for Riley so the fact that he married G. I. Jill wasn't really much of a surprise for me.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I think G. I. Joe, the action figure was always the model for Riley so the fact that he married G. I. Jill wasn't really much of a surprise for me.

Which was the main problem with the character. Actually both characters, although G1 Joe and GI Jane/Jill had more personality and weren't quite as flat or stock as Sam and Riley are in this episode, which I guess is saying something?

It's a shame...Riley had begun to get some development towards the end of S4 and beginning half of S5. I actually found the character interesting for a while there. Then they bring him back as a one-dimensional card-board cutout - poor Marc Blucas, he did more acting playing Basketball.

It wasn't the only weird thing about her designed to please everyone in the audience

The definition of the Mary Sue type character. A character that is everyone's friend, who is perfect in every way, can do everything...but ultimately is so flat that the character might as well be a paper doll or card-board cut-out. Bad writing choice. April in I Was Made To Love You had more personality and was as a result, more likable and sympathetic. Sam? Sigh, is she dead yet? I felt sorry for the actress who just looked bored.

[kikimay]

OMG, it's true! It's really that: Sam and Riley ARE action figures!
Thank you! Now I understand why they exist.

[kathyh]

I looked at that book meme and thought "noooo..." as I would never be able to make up my mind about anything. Having said that "Checkmate" would have been my choice for this one. It was a very satisfying conclusion to a series that obsessed me for about two years.

Fans tried to make this episode work...in meta, in fanfic, etc, but it just doesn't.

It's a dreadful episode. I think I once thought I could make it work if all the characters were the way Buffy perceived them to be rather than the way they actually were, but that was in the days before the comics soured me and I still thought the Buffy writers couldn't have come up with something that terrible.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I looked at that book meme and thought "noooo..." as I would never be able to make up my mind about anything.

It is truly the meme from hell. I don't know why I feel compelled to do it. At the moment I'm choosing books I actually remember well.

I think I once thought I could make it work if all the characters were the way Buffy perceived them to be rather than the way they actually were, but that was in the days before the comics soured me and I still thought the Buffy writers couldn't have come up with something that terrible.

Right there with you.

Initially, I fanwanked cardboard Sam and Riley as being Buffy's perspective or a satiric take on the perfect couple - but then I made the mistake of reading writers interviews and realized damn, the writers weren't being satirical. (All you have to do is read Jane Espenson's Sam/Riley comic to realize this and once you do, you think okay I've been giving these writers far too much credit - this show was often brilliant in spite of them not because of them.)

The Buffy comics had more or less the same problem As You Were did - undisciplined writing and poor plotting. Whedon keeps making the mistake of writing the first and last episodes of each season and knowing exactly how it starts and ends, and leaving the middle to everyone else to plot as long as they end up where he wants them to. So we have neat bookends, but a whole lot of mess in the middle. Bad way to plot a serial. I remember a comment that Whedon made to Marsters while filming the episode Beneath You: "I know where you will end up, that we're going to kill you. But between now and then? I have no idea what we're going to do with you." And I thought, damn, this is not a good thing, although it does explain a lot.

To be fair this does happen a lot on tv. There's always a few stinker episodes. What I find amusing about the Mutant Enemy writers though is they actually think the worst episode was Beer Bad, uh no, that episode did have some redeeming value - it was funny in places, also it was pure stand-a-lone so didn't mess up the arc. As You Were...was just epic fail.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

By no means a perfect episode, Into the Woods looks rather brilliant in comparison to As You Were. And that's saying something.

Admittedly I tend to associate ITW/AYW in a single breath (guilt by association as it were) because of the risible ending of ITW, but you're absolutely right. The only thing of redeeming value in AYW is Buffy's apology to Spike (and I do love the moment where she comes to his crypt asking if he loves her; they're both so vunerable and deluded it makes me want to cry for them. But that's just 2-3 minutes out an entire episode, not enough to make me want to watch it again.)

Initially, I fanwanked cardboard Sam and Riley as being Buffy's perspective or a satiric take on the perfect couple - but then I made the mistake of reading writers interviews and realized damn, the writers weren't being satirical. (All you have to do is read Jane Espenson's Sam/Riley comic to realize this and once you do, you think okay I've been giving these writers far too much credit - this show was often brilliant in spite of them not because of them.)

I've seen some of those fanwanks - I know some very smart people who do believe that's what the intended message was; but NOTHING in the story onscreen supports that. And you're right, it could have been a brilliant take on Buffy's delusional worldview/self-image vs how Riley and Sam really were in everyone else's eyes. (or take that further - have them look a bit different to everyone, rashamon-style). but all I could see was Buffy (and Spike) being humiliated for the sake of it and gee, wasn't Buffy a bitch to that poor guy? And isn't Sam just PERFECT? (It wasn't enough to have Sam be pretty, she had to look like a genetically engineer catwalk model compared to Buffy.) It confirmed everything I'd suspected the writers believed about Buffy since ITW.

I remember a comment that Whedon made to Marsters while filming the episode Beneath You: "I know where you will end up, that we're going to kill you. But between now and then? I have no idea what we're going to do with you."

I wonder what Marsters thought of it? Because that's just fucking scary, IMO. And yes, it does explain a lot about S7 (which I've grown fond of despite itself but the sharp left turns in the plot are all over the place) and the comics, as you point out. Didn't I read that no one on the writing staff of S8 knew who Twilight was going to be except Joss? Is that laziness or arrogance?

What I find amusing about the Mutant Enemy writers though is they actually think the worst episode was Beer Bad,

WTF??? Do you know who said that? (Admittedly BB is one of my favorite "underrated" episodes, so I'm biased.)

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

WTF??? Do you know who said that? (Admittedly BB is one of my favorite "underrated" episodes, so I'm biased.)

Whedon. It's also in the little episode guide to the S4 DVDs, and in the commentary to I think Wild at Heart or one of them, can't remember which. I remember thinking at the time...dude, I hate to break this to you, but not your worst episode. This is why we require editors...writers are lousy judges of their own art.

I wonder what Marsters thought of it? Because that's just fucking scary, IMO.

Considering it was Marsters who reported the quote, first, and after telling fans about an overlong 20 hour shoot, where everyone was exhausted, I'm guessing he didn't take it all that well? Although I think he was used to it by that stage, so most likely didn't care. After-all he had various similar exchanges with Whedon over the years (and these are actually confirmed by Whedon):

1. Season 2
Whedon: I'm going to kill you, so don't get too comfortable. You're dying mid-season, Angelus will kill you!
Marsters: Uhm, okay.

2. End of Season 4
Marsters: I've decided that the reason Spike is sticking around is that he is smitten with Buffy, probably imagines himself in love with her, but of course he can't have her - sort of tragic really. How's that sound? Am I in the ballpark?
Whedon slaps his forehead, as a lightbulb goes off: OF course! Thank you. That's why he's still in town and going after her, why didn't I see that before?? That's a great idea!
(Now keep in mind, after Something Blue - Gellar and Marsters both pitched the idea and Whedon turned them down - saying no Spike was a Cordy character.)

3. Season 6
Marsters: So I'm getting the chip out?
Whedon: Yep.
Marsters: Then I'm furious and nasty like?
Whedon: Yep.
Marsters gets final script...and hear's his soul has been returned in final bit.
Marsters: Wait...what's this soul thing??? Am I Angel Take 2?
Whedon: Well, not exactly. Just go with it.

In interviews Julie Benze reported as did Marsters that they read the scripts backwards. Nicholas Brendan said the worst bit was they'd add something - that wasn't even in the script and he'd find out about it after the episode had been filmed and it would be a big revelation about his character. Benze stated she didn't know they were turning Darla human until she got the script and acted it.

They never knew their characters arcs. And were never quite sure if the writers did. This is a horrible spot for an actor to be in.

And yes, it does explain a lot about S7 (which I've grown fond of despite itself but the sharp left turns in the plot are all over the place) and the comics, as you point out. Didn't I read that no one on the writing staff of S8 knew who Twilight was going to be except Joss? Is that laziness or arrogance?

A Little bit of both, I suspect. Also an insane fear of spoiling the readership or audience. Whedon became unduly obsessed with the plot=twist or jaw-dropping moment. He wanted to constantly tease and surprise his audience - to not give them what they wanted. The problem with that approach - is often he would make the surprise come out of nowhere and the audience would think, okay, that makes no sense or be completely jarred by it. Angel as Twilight for example doesn't quite work, unless you squint and do a whole lot of fanwanking and completely devolve the character. Makes for a great plot-twist or jaw-dropping moment..I guess. Also, they didn't do a good follow-up or have the character take any responsibility, so it became a comic book cliche and stupid. I stopped bothering with the things after that.

These techniques Whedon could get away with in the late 1990s and early 21st Century, but not so much any more. What he did with Buffy - won't work now. Curious to see how he writes SHIELD. If he does it like the Avengers - he'll be fine. But if he does it like Buffy or Angel or Dollhouse...he'll lose the audience.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

And AYW does not work. Even the fanwanks don't. The writers screwed up royally with that episode, in some respects it tainted all the episodes that followed it. Because the bulk of the audience's sympathy wasn't with Buffy and her friends after that episode, and it should have been. It played too much like a Riley revenge/grudge fanfic complete with OCC moments - which went against the alleged message of the series - female empowerment.

The apology at the end sort of does..except even that has problems, because she shrugs off the whole demon eggs thing without letting Spike provide the audience with an explanation, because that plot literally dropped in out of nowhere and I'm sorry we needed one. ME had the habit of doing that - they'd drop deux ex machina or plot points out of the blue and expect the audience to except it. Even if the plot point convientently popped up here and was never built up to or earned. Example in point? The damn Scythe. Whedon decided he needed to write in Fray's Scythe...so suddenly we have a Scythe. Then there's the Guardians...who apparently have been residing in the Sunnydale graveyard all this time but no one has stumbled upon them until now. Gee, didn't know the graveyard was that big? Whedon plots like tv sitcom writer.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

AYW is so poor, I can't even wank it to make sense. I can make it work in a thematic sense, but the ep is just weak and shabbily directed. Maybe it would have worked better had one of the directing team had done it instead of Petrie.

That's even without the apology garbage.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Season 6 was the season when ME got the weird idea that each one of its writers should be given a chance to write and direct their own episode if they wanted to and had been with the series for more than three years.

While I appreciated the need to break new ground and experiment...we often had epic fail. Marti Noxon directed Wrecked. David Fury directed Gone. And Petrie directed As You Were. Enuf said. We can't blame Doublemeat on Espenson's direction - I think she chose not to direct an episode. DeKnight - I think also chose not to direct. Can't remember who wrote and directed Older and Far Away.

I also tried to make AYW work. I couldn't do it. Sure it works more or less on a metaphorical/thematic level if you squint, but not at all on the literal/plot level which is crucial for the story to make sense. This isn't a poem after all.

At first I saw it as a satire, then realized in reading the writers commentary and seeing future episodes and well the comics, that I was giving the writers too much credit. It was not meant to be taken satirically.

Then I decided we were just in Buffy's pov - which also doesn't quite work.
Because we aren't the whole time...and its not consistent.

No, epic fail. LOL!

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

I think Marti directed Into the Woods. DeKnight, RRK and Greenberg were all relatively newbs at that point.

I kind of wonder just how much OMWF screwed things up in the middle there. Great episode, but it was overlong, took a long time to shoot and cost a good bit of their budget. I've never seen any articles on it, but I suspect it's what led to the restraints in OaFA and Gone.

Not that that explains AYW in any way, shape or form. I really don't know what they were thinking. Horribly set up on top of the fact that you don't have the series' most unpopular character, who left under bad circumstances, show up and dole out bad psychology lessons (but Joss's attempts in that area have always lacked).

Lots of questionable behind-the-scenes stuff the last couple years. Some of the editing in S7 still leaves me scratching my head. I know you have to turn things into the network timed right down to the frame, but they cut motivation out in some places.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

You may be right about OMWF causing a bit of...a disruption. Whedon was doing too many things at the same time - he was busy developing Firefly with Tim Minear, playing mediator between Greenwalt/CC and Fox/WB on Angel, and spent a lot of time focused on writing his musical - OMWF - which cast, crew, and writers put about 100% into. While the episode itself is great and did not go on too long...it did take about two months to shoot, all summer to write. To put this into context? Most episodes take no more than a week or two. And you write the script in two days. Often start shooting with the script still being revised.

Can you imagine how the cast and crew reacted to Whedon's decision to do a musical? (Xander's explanation for summoning a dancing demon to do a musical is basically Whedon's explanation to his cast and crew - hey, I thought it would be fun and stuff - you all had fun, right?) Only two of the cast members had any musical theater experience to speak of - ASH and James Marsters. And they all got a really bad cassette of Whedon and his wife singing songs - hey these are the songs we're doing and guess what we're doing a musical!

OTOH...looking back over the seasons? The episodes all sort of get a bit ...bad in the middle. S2 - we have the episodes with the parasites, Ted, and a lot of treading water between What's My Line and Surprise. Actually I can't remember most of the episodes between them.
The stand-a-lone's in S2 Buffy were not very good. Same problem occurred between Passion and Becoming, lots of treading water.
S3? Same problem. The not so great episodes are in the middle.
And this is also happened in S4. All the seasons had weak episodes in the middle.

I can't remember half of them now, haven't watched the series in four years. But that does appear to be the pattern. Noticed it with the comic books as well...

To be fair, Whedon does seem to acknowledge this as one of his weaknesses in the musical with Willow's line: "I think this line is mostly filler".

So even if OMWF had not been such a big deal, I still think we would have had those weaker episodes.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

Most episodes take no more than a week or two.

Standard, Amber Benson said in an interview not too long ago, was 8 days for Buffy. I didn't mean the ep went on too long, I meant it was longer than your standard episode. Budget-wise, you figure the shooting, plus the studio time. Calling actors in on short rest and paying the penalty...

I still think we would have had those weaker episodes.

Possibly. I wasn't blaming it or anything, because, yeah, Whedon shows slow down in the middle. We probably wouldn't have Gone or OaFA, one done because they'd expended all SMG's hours and one a bottle show to cut costs without the musical. There's no reason to think they'd have been replaced with better eps. In the end, though, it was worth it. I wouldn't even call them bad, really. Just sort of...there.

Unlike AYW which really is bad.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

It's true there were bad episodes in previous seasons. IRYJ and Go Fish come to mind for me. But even those had redeeming features. AYW just has nothing whatsoever going for it.

I think you're right that the best bet is to see it as a Buffy fantasy, but that's problematic for lots of reasons, not the least of which is why Riley is at the center of it rather than Angel, in light of Forever. I mean, Willow didn't search out Riley at the end of The Gift....

Petrie seems to have had a serious man-crush on Riley, and nobody was there to tone him down. It's a shame.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Yep, would agree all the other not so great episodes had redeeming features except for AYW. It may not have been so bad if it had been a stand-a-lone monster of the week as Petrie appeared to want to treat it. But it was a major arc episode - one that foreshadowed what lay ahead. Whedon should have written it.

Petrie seems to have had a serious man-crush on Riley, and nobody was there to tone him down. It's a shame.

This appears to be a problem with a lot of television writing, particularly Whedon series. On Angel - David Greenwalt had a huge crush on Cordelia and basically ruined her arc, so that Season 4 ended up being largely damage control.

Although I'm beginning to wonder if Petrie wasn't alone in his man-crush on Riley.

I'll give David Fury credit - he didn't appear to crush on any of the characters.

I think you're right that the best bet is to see it as a Buffy fantasy, but that's problematic for lots of reasons, not the least of which is why Riley is at the center of it rather than Angel, in light of Forever.

Well that and the fact that the whole episode played more like Xander's fantasy than Buffy's. Petrie was clearly channeling the wrong character while writing the episode. They should have given Petrie Hells Bells to write, and someone else As You Were, preferably not a writer with a crush on Marc Blucas.

[shapinglight]

AYW is a truly horrible episode. The only reason to watch it is for JM's acting.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

And considering some of the lines he had to utter not to mention the fact that he was stark naked at various points while Gellar and Blucas were completely clothed...yeah, his acting should be acknowledged.

Seriously..."slayer, if I knew you were coming I've a baked a cake"??
Can you imagine saying that with a straight face?