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shadowkatOkay, I should have seen that plot-twist coming - but I didn't.
1. The plot twist. (This season has the best plot twists). Apparently Pan found a way to defeat both Rumplestilskin and Regina - by switching places with Henry. He did the old body-switch. I didn't expect that plot twist.
Although as an aside...could we keep the body-switch? Just because I prefer the actor who was playing Pan to the actor currently playing Henry. But that's admittedly a personal thing.
It is a clever way of providing Henry with the chance to be a hero and taking the Peter Pan conflict back to Storybrook. Also, it's a rather nice twist - in that now Rumplestilskin and Baelfire are inadvertently playing parents to Rumple's father.
The twist opens up other possibilities as well...
* Peter Pan as Henry may be Rumplestilskin's undoing, not literally Henry, but his father disguised as Henry - which is consistent plot thread, because throughout Rumple's life, his father and his love for his father has been Rumple's undoing. It got him the box, it caused him to abandon his own son, it resulted in him becoming Rumplestilskin...etc. Rumple has never dealt with his father. His father who has insisted on being the eternal child.
The father is also an effective conman and possibly the cleverest villain we've seen. Which also explains why Rumplestilskin was clever. Except much like Cora with Regina, Rumple's dad is far far worse.
Bae: Why didn't you tell me that Peter Pan was your father?
Rumple: because I didn't want you to think I was just like him.
(or rather, let me think, would you tell your son that his grandfather is a fiend? I think not. And considering how forthcoming with information Rumplestilskin has been up to now, really shouldn't have been much of a surprise that he'd keep it from him.)
* Pan can totally play Regina against the Charmings...and get her to go back to her old ways and revive old grudges. Remember Henry brought out the best in her, Pan will work to bring out the worst. And Regina may not see it if it works to her advantage - Regina has a tendency to be blind to things she doesn't want to see.
* Pan can also play Hook and Baelfire against each other and against Emma. He already was doing that on the island.
As an aside, Pan's second in command has got to go. Really, why couldn't they have left that bloke on the island? I would have.
2. How they solved the whole heart bit, was rather interesting - and worked beautifully. In fact they've been reminding us that Regina has the ability to pull out people's hearts.
And while I'm not always a fan of Regina, I have been liking her a great deal in the past few episodes. Rather loved her comment: "Yeah, yeah, I've done horrible things, but here's the thing I don't regret anything - because it brought me, Henry." Regina tends to be an ends justify the means sort of gal. What did she do, read Machiavelli in her spare time?
She's also refreshingly no-nonsense.
That said, the no regrets bit - pretty much proves that Regina isn't redeemed quite yet.
OTOH...guilt and regret aren't really useful emotions. What you need to do is forgive yourself, hope others forgive you, and try to learn from your actions and not do the same dumb thing again. Somehow I think she might think twice about doing another curse - it had some gnarly repercussions.
Rumplestilskin on the other hand seems to be more filled with regrets than Regina - albeit not about the nasty stuff his done to get Baelfire back. Note he doesn't tell Bae about Pan, not because Pan is a nasty fiend who tortures people, but because Pan abandoned him as a boy.
Rumple only regrets what he did to Bae. Which is nice, but not quite the same thing.
Okay, Pan clearly switched places during the whole Pandora's box/shadow pulling bit. (Poor Henry - talk about nasty relatives - he has three. And combined they are enough to put that kid in therapy for the rest of his life.) So he wasn't pulling off Henry's shadow so much as switching the shadows? I don't know, I admit I didn't see the body-switch coming. Although the defeat of Pan did seem a bit too easy.
Regina's spell clearly worked on one level, but like Rumplestilskin she underestimated Pan.
Who clearly has been plotting this whole thing for a long long time. Even tried to take Henry as a baby.
3. Back story was great. It explained a lot about Regina and Rumple. I think Rumple knew about Emma and Henry's linkage, but he clearly didn't know that Henry was his grandson.
Also explained how Rumple was able to procure the child without leaving Storybrook. Went pretty much the way I'd expected. He checked via various sources over phone lines and contacts. And he found an adoption that fell through. Which meant, Regina went to Boston not Phoenix. The previous adoption, the one that fell through, was to a Boston family - so Henry was at the Boston agency. That was a two-parent family - and most likely the one that Emma had been told Henry would be going to, vaguely of course. (Amusing that John and Michael Darling were planning on adopting the kid as a couple - to procure for Pan - Pan really had plotted this out, he even knew where to look.)
Also, that Regina found out who Henry's mother was and then got so filled with dread, she cast a spell to forget - covers several plot holes. Because it was a bit hard to believe that Regina, being Regina, wouldn't have gone against the court edict and researched the Mom, just to make sure Henry was okay and there were no problems. And if she figured it out, she wouldn't do something about it - apparently her options were somewhat limited. All she could do was give up Henry, or stop worrying and see what happened.
And nice flip - with the curse she chooses to sacrifice her father, leaving herself with no-one who cares for her. Here, she puts aside revenge and risks the curse being broken, to keep Henry and have someone who cares for her.
4. Emma was wonderful - she keeps finding the third way, that does not require violence or torture or choosing between people. Here, she chooses not to torture the Lost Boys, and instead provides them with an even trade or deal. Promising to help them reunite with their families if they will do the same for her.
5. And they've apparently found a way to bring the Charmings back to Storybrook without injury - all they needed was for Bae to free Rumple from the box. And Rumple to figure out Pan was up to no good, unfortunately Rumple didn't figure out what exactly Pan was up to.
Curious to see where this goes. Hasn't gone the way I thought it would yet. Which is sort of cool actually.
1. The plot twist. (This season has the best plot twists). Apparently Pan found a way to defeat both Rumplestilskin and Regina - by switching places with Henry. He did the old body-switch. I didn't expect that plot twist.
Although as an aside...could we keep the body-switch? Just because I prefer the actor who was playing Pan to the actor currently playing Henry. But that's admittedly a personal thing.
It is a clever way of providing Henry with the chance to be a hero and taking the Peter Pan conflict back to Storybrook. Also, it's a rather nice twist - in that now Rumplestilskin and Baelfire are inadvertently playing parents to Rumple's father.
The twist opens up other possibilities as well...
* Peter Pan as Henry may be Rumplestilskin's undoing, not literally Henry, but his father disguised as Henry - which is consistent plot thread, because throughout Rumple's life, his father and his love for his father has been Rumple's undoing. It got him the box, it caused him to abandon his own son, it resulted in him becoming Rumplestilskin...etc. Rumple has never dealt with his father. His father who has insisted on being the eternal child.
The father is also an effective conman and possibly the cleverest villain we've seen. Which also explains why Rumplestilskin was clever. Except much like Cora with Regina, Rumple's dad is far far worse.
Bae: Why didn't you tell me that Peter Pan was your father?
Rumple: because I didn't want you to think I was just like him.
(or rather, let me think, would you tell your son that his grandfather is a fiend? I think not. And considering how forthcoming with information Rumplestilskin has been up to now, really shouldn't have been much of a surprise that he'd keep it from him.)
* Pan can totally play Regina against the Charmings...and get her to go back to her old ways and revive old grudges. Remember Henry brought out the best in her, Pan will work to bring out the worst. And Regina may not see it if it works to her advantage - Regina has a tendency to be blind to things she doesn't want to see.
* Pan can also play Hook and Baelfire against each other and against Emma. He already was doing that on the island.
As an aside, Pan's second in command has got to go. Really, why couldn't they have left that bloke on the island? I would have.
2. How they solved the whole heart bit, was rather interesting - and worked beautifully. In fact they've been reminding us that Regina has the ability to pull out people's hearts.
And while I'm not always a fan of Regina, I have been liking her a great deal in the past few episodes. Rather loved her comment: "Yeah, yeah, I've done horrible things, but here's the thing I don't regret anything - because it brought me, Henry." Regina tends to be an ends justify the means sort of gal. What did she do, read Machiavelli in her spare time?
She's also refreshingly no-nonsense.
That said, the no regrets bit - pretty much proves that Regina isn't redeemed quite yet.
OTOH...guilt and regret aren't really useful emotions. What you need to do is forgive yourself, hope others forgive you, and try to learn from your actions and not do the same dumb thing again. Somehow I think she might think twice about doing another curse - it had some gnarly repercussions.
Rumplestilskin on the other hand seems to be more filled with regrets than Regina - albeit not about the nasty stuff his done to get Baelfire back. Note he doesn't tell Bae about Pan, not because Pan is a nasty fiend who tortures people, but because Pan abandoned him as a boy.
Rumple only regrets what he did to Bae. Which is nice, but not quite the same thing.
Okay, Pan clearly switched places during the whole Pandora's box/shadow pulling bit. (Poor Henry - talk about nasty relatives - he has three. And combined they are enough to put that kid in therapy for the rest of his life.) So he wasn't pulling off Henry's shadow so much as switching the shadows? I don't know, I admit I didn't see the body-switch coming. Although the defeat of Pan did seem a bit too easy.
Regina's spell clearly worked on one level, but like Rumplestilskin she underestimated Pan.
Who clearly has been plotting this whole thing for a long long time. Even tried to take Henry as a baby.
3. Back story was great. It explained a lot about Regina and Rumple. I think Rumple knew about Emma and Henry's linkage, but he clearly didn't know that Henry was his grandson.
Also explained how Rumple was able to procure the child without leaving Storybrook. Went pretty much the way I'd expected. He checked via various sources over phone lines and contacts. And he found an adoption that fell through. Which meant, Regina went to Boston not Phoenix. The previous adoption, the one that fell through, was to a Boston family - so Henry was at the Boston agency. That was a two-parent family - and most likely the one that Emma had been told Henry would be going to, vaguely of course. (Amusing that John and Michael Darling were planning on adopting the kid as a couple - to procure for Pan - Pan really had plotted this out, he even knew where to look.)
Also, that Regina found out who Henry's mother was and then got so filled with dread, she cast a spell to forget - covers several plot holes. Because it was a bit hard to believe that Regina, being Regina, wouldn't have gone against the court edict and researched the Mom, just to make sure Henry was okay and there were no problems. And if she figured it out, she wouldn't do something about it - apparently her options were somewhat limited. All she could do was give up Henry, or stop worrying and see what happened.
And nice flip - with the curse she chooses to sacrifice her father, leaving herself with no-one who cares for her. Here, she puts aside revenge and risks the curse being broken, to keep Henry and have someone who cares for her.
4. Emma was wonderful - she keeps finding the third way, that does not require violence or torture or choosing between people. Here, she chooses not to torture the Lost Boys, and instead provides them with an even trade or deal. Promising to help them reunite with their families if they will do the same for her.
5. And they've apparently found a way to bring the Charmings back to Storybrook without injury - all they needed was for Bae to free Rumple from the box. And Rumple to figure out Pan was up to no good, unfortunately Rumple didn't figure out what exactly Pan was up to.
Curious to see where this goes. Hasn't gone the way I thought it would yet. Which is sort of cool actually.
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no subject
Date: 2013-12-02 03:09 am (UTC)Random loose ends that I'm sure the show will forget: whatever happened to that mermaid that Regina turned into a statue? And didn't she have one of the Lost Boys' hearts or something?
no subject
Date: 2013-12-03 12:26 am (UTC)I think the mermaid remained a statue. Unless someone decided to pour pixie dust on her - which according to OUAT in Wonderland - is a cure for being turned into a statue.
Agreed, the body switch was the most interesting and unexpected option. I'm also, admittedly, not certain that J. Jared Gilman who plays Henry will be able to pull it off, nor am I certain he'll be less annoying. The kid who was playing Pan (and now Henry in Pan) certainly can. So, yes, looking forward to it. (I like Henry as a character, my difficulty is with the actor who is playing him - admittedly it is hard to find good child actors for tv series, but...)
no subject
Date: 2013-12-02 01:32 pm (UTC)Now, this has always been a tad lame, because if anyone lead Baelfire back to Rumple as it played out in season 2, it was a grown woman, Emma. Henry was just tagging along.
So I don't think it's a coincidence that Neal and Rumple finally had the emotional making up they had at the end of this episode. This is them actually, finally being "reunited."
And the boy that brought them back together was Peter Pan (the original, undiluted version, of course, not Henry!Pan). Now as Henry Pan, he is well-positioned to start the undoing, whatever that will entail.
no subject
Date: 2013-12-03 12:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-12-02 01:42 pm (UTC)So after he was defeated, was it only *then* he decided to trade places with Henry and keep his youth (or at least his life) by taking over his great grandson's life. In other words, is this now Plan B, or was the whole saving-magic plan an elaborate ruse to manipulate his grand Plan A, to steal Henry's existence?
I would believe that, too, if only because this is the man-boy who sired the master manipulator of the OUAT-verse, Rumplestiltskin.
And maybe Pan knew his time was up when the gigantic time glass ran out, and he needed another way to stay alive.
no subject
Date: 2013-12-02 02:08 pm (UTC)I think the body switch was a last minute thing with all the eye glowingness happening as Pan is being sucked into the box.
no subject
Date: 2013-12-02 07:16 pm (UTC)Pan has lost, though I guess by becoming Henry he has extended his life span by a few years.
no subject
Date: 2013-12-02 07:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-12-03 12:05 am (UTC)If he does have another agenda - it's probably one that serves him. Right now, I think he's plan is just to play with everyone's heads, obtain a bit of revenge for being thwarted, and extend his life span another way.
Pan does fit an interesting pattern in the series. The number of parents who are con men or women. Jiminey Cricket/Hopper's parents were con-men/con-women (and our first introduction to them), then the Mad Hatter who was a rather more ambiguous and less evil version, Hook, Cora, and now Pan.
While I think Pan is a far more interesting character than the Miller's Daughter (Cora), I'm not sure he's quite as complex or redeemable. But I could be wrong. He's certainly the most clever.
no subject
Date: 2013-12-03 12:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-12-03 12:20 am (UTC)Also, keep in mind that when he couldn't get Henry's heart, he started to rip off his shadow...it wasn't until Rumple pulled out the box, that the glowy eyes began and Pan pulled the body switch.
Pan's very good at improvising or figuring ways out of tight situations.
no subject
Date: 2013-12-02 07:13 pm (UTC)And remind me not to go to TWOP post episodes. They seen determined to suck the joy from everything.
no subject
Date: 2013-12-03 12:17 am (UTC)Agree on the actors. I'm curious to see how the actor who portrayed Pan, plays Henry in Pan's body. And I'm admittedly not sold on the actor (J. Jared Gilman) who portrayed Henry - playing Pan in Henry's body. He's fairly limited. (And it is hard to state that without it becoming a brain twister.) I actually think the actor playing Henry is the weak link in the series. Although it is admittedly difficult to find really good child actors who want to do a tv series full time.
no subject
Date: 2013-12-03 05:36 pm (UTC)I have visited its soap opera threads for years, though, because they are vastly superior to most of the other soap boards around.
I generally do know not to go to any other TWOP thread, though. It's just that sometimes, against my better judgement, I glance at some of the other threads, almost always to my regret.
Never go there for any series that you actually enjoy. It sucks the joy from anything.
no subject
Date: 2013-12-04 01:09 am (UTC)Actually daytime soaps are the only shows I'll lurk on forums for or hunt spoilers - because that's part of the fun. And the viewers are so passionate about their love or HATE for a character. They even give them nasty nicknames. I hope the actors are smart enough to stay off forums.
But other shows - such as OUAT? No way.