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shadowkatI found this article on Io9 entitled Why do we hate so many female characters so much? interesting in part because I didn't dislike any of the female characters mentioned. Did however, dislike many of the popular male characters. (Thanks to ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
shipperx for the link and the heads up.)
The article lists the following female characters as "hated" by fandom:
1. The Tale of The Two Gwens : Torchwood Gwen and Merlin Gwen
As an aside what it is with female slash shippers and characters named Gwen?
The Merlin fandom hated Gwenivere, and the Torchwood hated Gwen. And they are rather misogynistic in their hate - to the extent, that it is hard to like them or their ship all that much. Actually, I'll extend that...what is it with female m/m slash fans and hating female characters? I've seen a pattern emerge. To a degree it's the old : I'll hate any character, regardless of who they are, that gets in the way of my ship having it's happily ever after. And of course, everyone hates the interloper, not the person who is wishy washy and can't make up their mind, no...the interloper. Which, personally, I've always considered a mite odd. But here's the thing? In some cases, such as Gwen/Arthur, there was no interloper - Arthur wasn't gay. He and Merlin had a relationship that was separate from Gwen. You could like both characters. Its allowed. Same deal with Torchwood. Gwen was married and happily at that to Rhys, and Jack was well, Jack, I think he's even done it with a car, but his heart belonged to Ianto. There was no love triangle of doom (except in their imaginations). You could love both Gwen and Ianto, it was allowed. It's not like the Baelfire/Emma/Hook love triangle or the Spike/Buffy/Angel one - although on the Spike/Buffy/Angel - that love triangle was sort of off-screen. Spike/Buffy were together - when Angel was bopping well, how many girlfriends did he have? And Buffy/Angel were together when Spike was with Dru. And Spike/Angel were..well sort of together, when Buffy was out of the country. So...the love triangle wasn't written by the writers in some of these cases, but by the deluded and I'm sorry, fanatical fans.
At any rate, I loved both Gwen's. In some respects I found them to be more developed than the male leads and the actresses to be rather compelling.
* Gwen on Torchwood, was a complex character - she starts out as a cop, gets pulled into Torchwood, struggles with her marriage and how to juggle Torchwood and her life with Rhys, and her attraction to other men. She's tough, but also feminine, and not skinny, also over the age of 30 - a rarity in these series. She was particularly brilliant in the mini-series "Children of Earth" - which I preferred to Torchwood the Series. Her relationship with Rhys is amongst the few relationships on that series that was not overly melodramatic, subtly conveyed, and gradually evolved and we get to see various angles of it. We didn't have traumatic death scenes or horrible misunderstandings, we had two mature people figure out ways to make compromises.
* Gwen on Merlin, also a complex character - who evolved gradually. Outside of the annoying Evil Gwen arc in the last season, this character was consistently written and likable. Although even in the Evil Gwen arc - she made sense - she was a character who fought for what she believed in and who she believed in, and due to her own struggles, was able to be ruthless at times. But no more ruthless than the male characters on the series.
2. The Two Skylars, Skye (Marvel Agents of Shield) and Skylar White (Breaking Bad).
Apparently fans despise Skylar White from Breaking Bad and Skye in the series Marvel Agents of Shield. Both female characters are a bit manipulative and smart. They find ways to survive. Skye is considered an interloper - the audience's point of view, and in Breaking Bad, Skylar was at times the conscience, or the voice of reason. The long-suffering wife of Walt, portrayed in various facets by Anna Gunn. In both cases, the fandom, that hated Skye and Skylar, loved a rather unattractive, balding, over 40, everyman who had done more than his fair share of torture and mauling.
Granted, it feels a bit odd to compare these two series on any level. MAoS is a box of popcorn and Breaking Bad is well..a five course meal. MAoS is about a bunch of government operatives, and well Skye, who travel about the world killing or neutralizing threats, regardless of what they might be or who. Breaking Bad is about a chemistry teacher dying of cancer who becomes a meth dealer. Sort of like comparing the movies Lincoln to The Avengers.
Or Mozart to well Justin Bieber.
At any rate, what they do have in common is many female (and a few male) fans hate these two women, but love the male lead - who is not attractive and is a bit, well, the epitome of the male power structure. He's an older, badass guy, who has defeated death, and has tortured more than a few people. One is portrayed as a hero, one an anti-hero. Female fans lovvve them, but haaate the two Skyes. Why?
Don't ask me, I honestly don't get it.
* Skylar White - I found to be a modern day Lady Macbeth. She's manipulative, at times cloying, but also tough, innovative, and layered. She sees what her husband is capable of and it tears her apart. And how she handles what he is doing, why he is doing it, and her feelings for him... in a complex manner that is shown over the five seasons. Unlike Lady Macbeth, Skylar is ultimately a survivor, and manages to pull her children out of the abyss with her. Her relationships in the show are not limited to Walt, she also has a multifaceted one with her sister, played by Betsy Brandt. And brother in law, Hank.
In some respects she's a far more interesting character than Aaron Paul's Jesse or Bryan Cranston's Walt, but she's the lesser known one. She has little power or control over the situation. But manages to subtly and at times aggressively assert it - in her own quiet way.
She doesn't take what Walt does lying down - nor does she let him rule her or control her.
But by the same token, she does protect him and her family as best she can - well aware that if Walt goes down, her family will go down with him. We see the series through Walt's warped point of view, but there are moments that you see it through Skylar's.
* Skye - not the most layered character on the planet. But definitely the character with the most potential. Skye questions SHIELD's purpose from the beginning. At each interval, she wonders if what they are doing is the correct route. Could there not be another way? Also, there's the question of who she is, and where she came from. Granted the character still feels a bit weak, but then so are the other characters.
While Skye is nowhere near as interesting as Skylar, due to the writing, she is however in some respects more interesting than the male characters. And provides a point of view that is not pro-super secret covert government, which is desperately needed.
3. Sansa Stark...Game of Thrones
The women of Game of Thrones get a lot of hate in that fandom. Actually I see this in a lot of male centric fantasy fandoms...Supernatural has similar issues. Partly due to the writing. GRR Martin and Eric Kripke write extremely dark stories about power from a male perspective. And they like to focus on the nasty side of the human soul.
Sansa is unfortunately introduced in Game of Thrones and Clash of Kings as an idealistic and somewhat romantic 12 or 14 year old. I thought she was 14? She pictures court through the pages of romance novels and fairy tales. She wears dresses, and speaks politely. She despises violence. And when she meets Prince Joffrey, she sees a handsome prince, who speaks pretty words. Little does she know he's a sadist. While her sister, Ayra, prefers sword-play, wearing boy's clothes, and scoffs at romance. Compared to Ayra - Sansa seems weak, but it's a different type of strength she possesses.
Granted she does a few things in the first novel that is...difficult to read. She confides in Queen Cersei about her father's plans regarding her and Ayra, mainly because at that point she still fancies herself in love with Joffrey, and she honestly does not know what her father is up to nor does she understand it. Keep in mind she is twelve. Ayra, also has no clue, and didn't want to leave either - because she was getting sword-fighting instructions and didn't want to lose her instructor.
While I can't say I was particularly fond of Sansa in the first two books - she came across as whiny at times, I did prefer her to the male members of her clan. Actually, I found myself preferring the female characters in Game of Thrones to the male characters, with few exceptions. (Cersei never won me over. And I adore Tyrion and Jaime.)
4. Lori and Andrea on The Walking Dead
While Lori, Rick's long-suffering wife, occasionally grated on my nerves (particularly during the first part of the second season), I actually found Lori more interesting and far more likable than Shane and Rick who were fighting over her. The character seemed to be torn throughout. She believes her husband is dead, so moves on with his best friend in a post-apocalyptic world, inhabited by zombies, and where Shane is a leader and her means of survival. When who should pop up again, but her dead husband. Who she was having marital issues with prior to his alleged death. They were arguing about the dangers of his occupation and the risks he took - turns out, she was right to be upset about that, since he gets shot and ends up in the hospital right before the world gets turned upside down and sideways.
Lori depicts the conflict well. Add to this, a preteen and somewhat precocious kid that she's raising, and being pregnant. Knowing full well that the chances she'll survive her pregnancy are slim to none. She's a tragic and incredibly brave, yet layered one.
Andrea, another favorite, is the opposite of Lori. Tough through and through. She's devastated by the death of her sister. And struggles to find the will to live afterwards.
She also struggles to find a way outside of the death and violence, a means to survive, to go back to a world without constant violence. Yet, tragically can't find it and finds betrayal and male cruelty instead.
Fans found her preachy or hypocritical, because she appeared to be supporting the villain. But Andrea was trying to find a way out of the nightmare. Rick was hardly any better.
Andrea tried to reason with both men and failed. Granted her relationship with the Governor didn't quite work and came close to ruining a wonderful character, but she remained tough and true to her own values throughout. She did not kill unless she had to.
________________
Unfortunately those aren't the only female characters female fans hate. And sometimes, the hate is warranted. There are a few characters that are just poorly drawn or written. But my difficulty with fandom, regardless of the series, has been the character hate - particularly towards female characters. Quick caveat - I'm not talking about despising a character's actions and wanting to kill them because of those actions. Or the normal shipper hate of any character regardless of their gender or ethnicity who gets in the way of a favorite ship. But something deeper. Granted the hate often sprouts from some sort of trigger or "ship", for example a lot of people despised Buffy in season 6 because of how she treated Spike in the episodes Gone, Dead Things, As You Were, and Older and Far Away. But that's different from the fans who hated her throughout the season and well into S7, for no clear reason, many of who stated she deserved to...(you fill in the blank).
I admittedly have troubles with the character Elena on Vampire Diaries, but I don't hate her, and my issues have more to do with the trope than the actual character. Also to some degree with how she's portrayed and the emphasis on beauty. She's too often the damsel.
And portrayed as a bit wishy-washy at times. But overall, I obviously like the character on a certain level or I wouldn't still be watching the series. That's not what I'm talking about.
In Doctor Who fandom, there were people who despised Doctor River Song, some for understandable reasons - they felt she was hap-hazardly written and did not like the fact that the Doctor saved her by placing her ghost in a dream for eternity. Others despised her because she could drive the Tardis and had the same brilliance and capabilities as The Doctor, how dare they create a female equal to The Doctor. The show was ruined!
Or they despised her because she was tough and played the traditional male role, with a feminine touch. Or her fizzy hair and the fact that she was played by an actress in her 40s.
River Song was my favorite Doctor Who character. It wasn't until she popped up that I understood the appeal of the series. Prior to the two episodes she appeared in, I thought the series was a fun show, but hardly worth spending much time on. Song - made me rethink my view and rethink the series.
Others despise Rose Tyler...and I admittedly was never a fan, mainly it was the actress, Billie Piper just doesn't do anything for me. But, I can't say I hated her. I actually appreciated the character and rather liked her for a bit in S1 of the Reboot, with the 9th Doctor, Chris Eccleston's. He was so dark and edgy, she was light and sunny in comparison.
I don't think she worked quite as well with David Tennant though. Rose was blue collar, not highly educated, street smart, with a blue collar Mum, who interfered in her life, and a boyfriend, who well she blew off for the Doctor. And really, who could blame her. (no pun intended).
Then there's Martha Jones, the companion who succeeded Rose Tyler, who I think fans despised because she got in the way of Rose/The Doctor. But Doctor Who wasn't designed as a romance. None of the companions or the actors who portray the Doctor for that matter stay for very long. They switch off. It's an adventure anthology series...sort of serialized Twilight Zone for teens. Martha Jones is bright, clever, black, and a medical doctor. She's the only companion who actually gets to move on to a better life after she parts ways with the Doctor. Some fans called her a Mary Sue, which never made sense to me - was it because she was smart?
Fred on the series Angel, suffered from similar issues. A lot of female fans despised Fred.
I never really understood why. Was it her voice? Which admittedly grated on my nerves at times, but I still liked the character. Or was it how she was written - being thrown at every male character in the cast? Spike, by the way, was also thrown at every character on both casts (and yes people hated him too - but it didn't feel as misanthropic, male characters aren't hated in the same way as female characters, I've noticed.). Fred was a brilliant scientist - and some of the best episodes of that series focused on Fred's science background. I love Supersymmetry, from the 4th Season of Angel. And Magic Bullet. Two Fred centric episodes. Some fans preferred her as Illyria - but Illyria was physical, while Fred was all mental, all cerebral.
On Once Upon a Time - Snow White and Regina get blasted in the fandom. Not sure why exactly. Belle actually I can sort of understand, she's written really badly. But Regina and Snow have become fascinating characters. I admittedly despised Regina last year - but she was being written unevenly, which was my main issue. Snow - I had a love/hate relationship with - she was being written better as Snow then as Mary Margaret. But that went away eventually, and both have grown on me. Not sure why they haven't grown on others. Also, apparently the fandom forgive Rumple everything, but Regina nothing. Considering Rumple taught Regina everything she knows...and did most of it, first....
I get character hate that's par for the course, we all hate characters. It's when the hate bleeds into something else...that I become disturbed. And its not just in television fandoms, I've seen it in Amazon and Good Reads reviews of romance novels, and towards actresses.
Female fans are highly critical of what other women wear or how they look. They say women dress for women - that's true to a degree. We do. To avoid being ripped apart.
For an example of how women criticize each other - often well-meaning, check out this blog by a soap opera actress, who has recently returned to a popular soap opera. The actress is in her 40s, and was playing a character that had been held hostage and pyschologically tortured for two years. She's gained some weight since fans last saw her. And had been working as a director not an actress. A "well-meaning" fan emailed her - telling her that she should look into getting some work down, tightening up her neck, getting rid of that "turkey neck". This was on top of emails she'd been getting about her weight. My neck has lines in it. I'm 46.
We age. Men do too. But men aren't criticized for it. Have you looked at James Marsters neck?
I can tell he's in his 50s. But no one states anything. Same with Harrison Ford. OR on the same soap? Anthony Geary who plays Luke. On Buffy, Amber Bensen, who played Tara, was criticized for being too heavy.
I think being aware of this tendency and thinking about why we do it...may aid in lessening it over time, and it's ill-effects.
[ETA: Sorry about the horrific mistake at the bottom, didn't discover it until I read an email notification from LJ this morning - and had no way of fixing it until I got home tonight.]
shipperx for the link and the heads up.)The article lists the following female characters as "hated" by fandom:
1. The Tale of The Two Gwens : Torchwood Gwen and Merlin Gwen
As an aside what it is with female slash shippers and characters named Gwen?
The Merlin fandom hated Gwenivere, and the Torchwood hated Gwen. And they are rather misogynistic in their hate - to the extent, that it is hard to like them or their ship all that much. Actually, I'll extend that...what is it with female m/m slash fans and hating female characters? I've seen a pattern emerge. To a degree it's the old : I'll hate any character, regardless of who they are, that gets in the way of my ship having it's happily ever after. And of course, everyone hates the interloper, not the person who is wishy washy and can't make up their mind, no...the interloper. Which, personally, I've always considered a mite odd. But here's the thing? In some cases, such as Gwen/Arthur, there was no interloper - Arthur wasn't gay. He and Merlin had a relationship that was separate from Gwen. You could like both characters. Its allowed. Same deal with Torchwood. Gwen was married and happily at that to Rhys, and Jack was well, Jack, I think he's even done it with a car, but his heart belonged to Ianto. There was no love triangle of doom (except in their imaginations). You could love both Gwen and Ianto, it was allowed. It's not like the Baelfire/Emma/Hook love triangle or the Spike/Buffy/Angel one - although on the Spike/Buffy/Angel - that love triangle was sort of off-screen. Spike/Buffy were together - when Angel was bopping well, how many girlfriends did he have? And Buffy/Angel were together when Spike was with Dru. And Spike/Angel were..well sort of together, when Buffy was out of the country. So...the love triangle wasn't written by the writers in some of these cases, but by the deluded and I'm sorry, fanatical fans.
At any rate, I loved both Gwen's. In some respects I found them to be more developed than the male leads and the actresses to be rather compelling.
* Gwen on Torchwood, was a complex character - she starts out as a cop, gets pulled into Torchwood, struggles with her marriage and how to juggle Torchwood and her life with Rhys, and her attraction to other men. She's tough, but also feminine, and not skinny, also over the age of 30 - a rarity in these series. She was particularly brilliant in the mini-series "Children of Earth" - which I preferred to Torchwood the Series. Her relationship with Rhys is amongst the few relationships on that series that was not overly melodramatic, subtly conveyed, and gradually evolved and we get to see various angles of it. We didn't have traumatic death scenes or horrible misunderstandings, we had two mature people figure out ways to make compromises.
* Gwen on Merlin, also a complex character - who evolved gradually. Outside of the annoying Evil Gwen arc in the last season, this character was consistently written and likable. Although even in the Evil Gwen arc - she made sense - she was a character who fought for what she believed in and who she believed in, and due to her own struggles, was able to be ruthless at times. But no more ruthless than the male characters on the series.
2. The Two Skylars, Skye (Marvel Agents of Shield) and Skylar White (Breaking Bad).
Apparently fans despise Skylar White from Breaking Bad and Skye in the series Marvel Agents of Shield. Both female characters are a bit manipulative and smart. They find ways to survive. Skye is considered an interloper - the audience's point of view, and in Breaking Bad, Skylar was at times the conscience, or the voice of reason. The long-suffering wife of Walt, portrayed in various facets by Anna Gunn. In both cases, the fandom, that hated Skye and Skylar, loved a rather unattractive, balding, over 40, everyman who had done more than his fair share of torture and mauling.
Granted, it feels a bit odd to compare these two series on any level. MAoS is a box of popcorn and Breaking Bad is well..a five course meal. MAoS is about a bunch of government operatives, and well Skye, who travel about the world killing or neutralizing threats, regardless of what they might be or who. Breaking Bad is about a chemistry teacher dying of cancer who becomes a meth dealer. Sort of like comparing the movies Lincoln to The Avengers.
Or Mozart to well Justin Bieber.
At any rate, what they do have in common is many female (and a few male) fans hate these two women, but love the male lead - who is not attractive and is a bit, well, the epitome of the male power structure. He's an older, badass guy, who has defeated death, and has tortured more than a few people. One is portrayed as a hero, one an anti-hero. Female fans lovvve them, but haaate the two Skyes. Why?
Don't ask me, I honestly don't get it.
* Skylar White - I found to be a modern day Lady Macbeth. She's manipulative, at times cloying, but also tough, innovative, and layered. She sees what her husband is capable of and it tears her apart. And how she handles what he is doing, why he is doing it, and her feelings for him... in a complex manner that is shown over the five seasons. Unlike Lady Macbeth, Skylar is ultimately a survivor, and manages to pull her children out of the abyss with her. Her relationships in the show are not limited to Walt, she also has a multifaceted one with her sister, played by Betsy Brandt. And brother in law, Hank.
In some respects she's a far more interesting character than Aaron Paul's Jesse or Bryan Cranston's Walt, but she's the lesser known one. She has little power or control over the situation. But manages to subtly and at times aggressively assert it - in her own quiet way.
She doesn't take what Walt does lying down - nor does she let him rule her or control her.
But by the same token, she does protect him and her family as best she can - well aware that if Walt goes down, her family will go down with him. We see the series through Walt's warped point of view, but there are moments that you see it through Skylar's.
* Skye - not the most layered character on the planet. But definitely the character with the most potential. Skye questions SHIELD's purpose from the beginning. At each interval, she wonders if what they are doing is the correct route. Could there not be another way? Also, there's the question of who she is, and where she came from. Granted the character still feels a bit weak, but then so are the other characters.
While Skye is nowhere near as interesting as Skylar, due to the writing, she is however in some respects more interesting than the male characters. And provides a point of view that is not pro-super secret covert government, which is desperately needed.
3. Sansa Stark...Game of Thrones
The women of Game of Thrones get a lot of hate in that fandom. Actually I see this in a lot of male centric fantasy fandoms...Supernatural has similar issues. Partly due to the writing. GRR Martin and Eric Kripke write extremely dark stories about power from a male perspective. And they like to focus on the nasty side of the human soul.
Sansa is unfortunately introduced in Game of Thrones and Clash of Kings as an idealistic and somewhat romantic 12 or 14 year old. I thought she was 14? She pictures court through the pages of romance novels and fairy tales. She wears dresses, and speaks politely. She despises violence. And when she meets Prince Joffrey, she sees a handsome prince, who speaks pretty words. Little does she know he's a sadist. While her sister, Ayra, prefers sword-play, wearing boy's clothes, and scoffs at romance. Compared to Ayra - Sansa seems weak, but it's a different type of strength she possesses.
Granted she does a few things in the first novel that is...difficult to read. She confides in Queen Cersei about her father's plans regarding her and Ayra, mainly because at that point she still fancies herself in love with Joffrey, and she honestly does not know what her father is up to nor does she understand it. Keep in mind she is twelve. Ayra, also has no clue, and didn't want to leave either - because she was getting sword-fighting instructions and didn't want to lose her instructor.
While I can't say I was particularly fond of Sansa in the first two books - she came across as whiny at times, I did prefer her to the male members of her clan. Actually, I found myself preferring the female characters in Game of Thrones to the male characters, with few exceptions. (Cersei never won me over. And I adore Tyrion and Jaime.)
4. Lori and Andrea on The Walking Dead
While Lori, Rick's long-suffering wife, occasionally grated on my nerves (particularly during the first part of the second season), I actually found Lori more interesting and far more likable than Shane and Rick who were fighting over her. The character seemed to be torn throughout. She believes her husband is dead, so moves on with his best friend in a post-apocalyptic world, inhabited by zombies, and where Shane is a leader and her means of survival. When who should pop up again, but her dead husband. Who she was having marital issues with prior to his alleged death. They were arguing about the dangers of his occupation and the risks he took - turns out, she was right to be upset about that, since he gets shot and ends up in the hospital right before the world gets turned upside down and sideways.
Lori depicts the conflict well. Add to this, a preteen and somewhat precocious kid that she's raising, and being pregnant. Knowing full well that the chances she'll survive her pregnancy are slim to none. She's a tragic and incredibly brave, yet layered one.
Andrea, another favorite, is the opposite of Lori. Tough through and through. She's devastated by the death of her sister. And struggles to find the will to live afterwards.
She also struggles to find a way outside of the death and violence, a means to survive, to go back to a world without constant violence. Yet, tragically can't find it and finds betrayal and male cruelty instead.
Fans found her preachy or hypocritical, because she appeared to be supporting the villain. But Andrea was trying to find a way out of the nightmare. Rick was hardly any better.
Andrea tried to reason with both men and failed. Granted her relationship with the Governor didn't quite work and came close to ruining a wonderful character, but she remained tough and true to her own values throughout. She did not kill unless she had to.
________________
Unfortunately those aren't the only female characters female fans hate. And sometimes, the hate is warranted. There are a few characters that are just poorly drawn or written. But my difficulty with fandom, regardless of the series, has been the character hate - particularly towards female characters. Quick caveat - I'm not talking about despising a character's actions and wanting to kill them because of those actions. Or the normal shipper hate of any character regardless of their gender or ethnicity who gets in the way of a favorite ship. But something deeper. Granted the hate often sprouts from some sort of trigger or "ship", for example a lot of people despised Buffy in season 6 because of how she treated Spike in the episodes Gone, Dead Things, As You Were, and Older and Far Away. But that's different from the fans who hated her throughout the season and well into S7, for no clear reason, many of who stated she deserved to...(you fill in the blank).
I admittedly have troubles with the character Elena on Vampire Diaries, but I don't hate her, and my issues have more to do with the trope than the actual character. Also to some degree with how she's portrayed and the emphasis on beauty. She's too often the damsel.
And portrayed as a bit wishy-washy at times. But overall, I obviously like the character on a certain level or I wouldn't still be watching the series. That's not what I'm talking about.
In Doctor Who fandom, there were people who despised Doctor River Song, some for understandable reasons - they felt she was hap-hazardly written and did not like the fact that the Doctor saved her by placing her ghost in a dream for eternity. Others despised her because she could drive the Tardis and had the same brilliance and capabilities as The Doctor, how dare they create a female equal to The Doctor. The show was ruined!
Or they despised her because she was tough and played the traditional male role, with a feminine touch. Or her fizzy hair and the fact that she was played by an actress in her 40s.
River Song was my favorite Doctor Who character. It wasn't until she popped up that I understood the appeal of the series. Prior to the two episodes she appeared in, I thought the series was a fun show, but hardly worth spending much time on. Song - made me rethink my view and rethink the series.
Others despise Rose Tyler...and I admittedly was never a fan, mainly it was the actress, Billie Piper just doesn't do anything for me. But, I can't say I hated her. I actually appreciated the character and rather liked her for a bit in S1 of the Reboot, with the 9th Doctor, Chris Eccleston's. He was so dark and edgy, she was light and sunny in comparison.
I don't think she worked quite as well with David Tennant though. Rose was blue collar, not highly educated, street smart, with a blue collar Mum, who interfered in her life, and a boyfriend, who well she blew off for the Doctor. And really, who could blame her. (no pun intended).
Then there's Martha Jones, the companion who succeeded Rose Tyler, who I think fans despised because she got in the way of Rose/The Doctor. But Doctor Who wasn't designed as a romance. None of the companions or the actors who portray the Doctor for that matter stay for very long. They switch off. It's an adventure anthology series...sort of serialized Twilight Zone for teens. Martha Jones is bright, clever, black, and a medical doctor. She's the only companion who actually gets to move on to a better life after she parts ways with the Doctor. Some fans called her a Mary Sue, which never made sense to me - was it because she was smart?
Fred on the series Angel, suffered from similar issues. A lot of female fans despised Fred.
I never really understood why. Was it her voice? Which admittedly grated on my nerves at times, but I still liked the character. Or was it how she was written - being thrown at every male character in the cast? Spike, by the way, was also thrown at every character on both casts (and yes people hated him too - but it didn't feel as misanthropic, male characters aren't hated in the same way as female characters, I've noticed.). Fred was a brilliant scientist - and some of the best episodes of that series focused on Fred's science background. I love Supersymmetry, from the 4th Season of Angel. And Magic Bullet. Two Fred centric episodes. Some fans preferred her as Illyria - but Illyria was physical, while Fred was all mental, all cerebral.
On Once Upon a Time - Snow White and Regina get blasted in the fandom. Not sure why exactly. Belle actually I can sort of understand, she's written really badly. But Regina and Snow have become fascinating characters. I admittedly despised Regina last year - but she was being written unevenly, which was my main issue. Snow - I had a love/hate relationship with - she was being written better as Snow then as Mary Margaret. But that went away eventually, and both have grown on me. Not sure why they haven't grown on others. Also, apparently the fandom forgive Rumple everything, but Regina nothing. Considering Rumple taught Regina everything she knows...and did most of it, first....
I get character hate that's par for the course, we all hate characters. It's when the hate bleeds into something else...that I become disturbed. And its not just in television fandoms, I've seen it in Amazon and Good Reads reviews of romance novels, and towards actresses.
Female fans are highly critical of what other women wear or how they look. They say women dress for women - that's true to a degree. We do. To avoid being ripped apart.
For an example of how women criticize each other - often well-meaning, check out this blog by a soap opera actress, who has recently returned to a popular soap opera. The actress is in her 40s, and was playing a character that had been held hostage and pyschologically tortured for two years. She's gained some weight since fans last saw her. And had been working as a director not an actress. A "well-meaning" fan emailed her - telling her that she should look into getting some work down, tightening up her neck, getting rid of that "turkey neck". This was on top of emails she'd been getting about her weight. My neck has lines in it. I'm 46.
We age. Men do too. But men aren't criticized for it. Have you looked at James Marsters neck?
I can tell he's in his 50s. But no one states anything. Same with Harrison Ford. OR on the same soap? Anthony Geary who plays Luke. On Buffy, Amber Bensen, who played Tara, was criticized for being too heavy.
I think being aware of this tendency and thinking about why we do it...may aid in lessening it over time, and it's ill-effects.
[ETA: Sorry about the horrific mistake at the bottom, didn't discover it until I read an email notification from LJ this morning - and had no way of fixing it until I got home tonight.]
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Date: 2013-12-07 03:24 pm (UTC)I was an odd duck - I never liked Walter White. Actually it's why I struggled with the series for the first two seasons - because I disliked the lead character. But since he was an interesting, extremely well-written, and perfectly acted character - I found a way past that. They made him layered - and weirdly likable at times. Also, it helped that I despised Lydia, Todd, and his former business partners (the rich couple). Gus, I loved to hate.
So for me - Skylar, Hank and his wife, and to a degree Jesse (when he wasn't feeling sorry for himself or propping up Walt) were actually the most likable characters. But Walt was by far the most interesting.
So, I didn't completely buy into the protagonist privilege. But I admittedly did more so than ahem MAoS.
And you are right - some of the Skylar hate or dislike can be attributed to "protagonist privilege" (or whose point of view you happen to be in) and Jesse/Walter shipping. LOL! Not misogyny. We need to be careful about generalizing on this point - there's a broad range of reasons to dislike/hate or love a specific fictional character.
* Skye is drafted into the MAOS team. The rest of them seem to have no ethical problem with following orders from an unaccountable corrupt secret agency with no respect for the rule of law or human rights. I watch every show hoping to see them strung up for life as war criminals.
LOL! Oh, me too. Agree actually with everything you said about MAoS.
Skye is good when she's a skeptic, but best when she's driving mischief and skepticism in her team. I want to see her undermine their obedient ethical obliviousness. Still, she's kind of wooden; maybe the actress will improve.
Problem here is the actress isn't good enough to carry off the role - although it's not like the role is layered or well-written to begin with.
But that said - she's still the best thing in the series, which unfortunately is why I gave up on it.
Rose annoys me with the heavy uneducated working class vibe. I saw enough of that growing up. Now I can't sit through an episode of King Of The Hill and I root for Rumpole Of The Bailey's clients to go to jail.
Admittedly this may have been my issue with Rose as well - due to my own experiences with legal aid, defender project and various family members.
I had similar issues with Raising Hope after a while. The cliche is annoying.