OUAT: Nasty Habits...

[shadowkat]

Loved tonight's episode. Below therein lies spoilers.



Rumplestilskin's brother? Granted this series is getting a wee bit incestuous...but...I did love this episode. Of course it helped that it focused on my favorite characters. The Regina/Snow/Charming episodes for some reason or other appear to be weaker than the Rumplestilskin/Emma/Hook/Baelfire ones. I don't know why. Maybe it's just personal taste? (shrugs)

*Only downside of this episode was Belle. Although it should be noted that this was a vision of Belle, in Rumple's head. She wasn't real. And she was wearing the same outfit and looked the same as she did when she'd been held captive at his castle in the Enchanted Forest. Which means, she's his fantasy. So of course she'll be incredibly sweet and sympathetic. (Only problem I have is she appears to be like that in reality too.)

*Rumple's a bit of an extremist - he either redeems himself by dying to save Henry, or kills Henry and survives. Also in order to win? He has to kill people.

* Loved the idea that Peter Pan doubles as the Pied Piper of Hamlin. The actor playing Peter is quite good. And apparently Rumplestilskin and Peter Pan go way back. Back before Neverland and before Peter became Peter Pan or immortal. Baelfire also appears to know Pan and Neverland well.

In both the backstory and the current storyline - the problem between Rumple and Bae is trust.
Rumple doesn't trust Bae not to leave him, to choose him - so he cheats to keep him with him. In current storyline, Pan is able to successfully use that against Rumple a second time - telling Bae about the prophecy, how Henry is Rumple's undoing and why Rumple had intended on killing him. (He did actually until Neal/Baelfire allegedly died. And Neal is right there's a 50/50 chance that when they return to Storybrook, Rumple will decide to act on that plan in order to end up with Bell.)

He insists Baelfire is his happy ending, but there's no real proof from Bae's pov. (Well outside of the fact that Rumple sacrificed Belle and everyone to reunite with Bae.)

* Why could Henry hear the pipes at the end of the episode? Did Pan manage to convince him that he was lost? Because only Lost Boys can hear them - such as Rumplestilskin and Emma and Baelfire.

* They are building the Hook/Emma relationship, which makes sense. Although as an aside? Why do television writers feel the need to create drama with love triangles? Seriously, every tv show has them. It is getting old. Really wish they'd do something else. Because we all know how they'll turn out.

Though, to be fair, here, it could sort of work on multiple levels. Quite well actually. Which is why I knew they were going to do that. Could see that coming a mile away - particularly after I picked up on the great chemistry between Emma and Hook. Emma appears to be able to generate chemistry with just about everyone.

1. Everyone in Emma's group believes Neal is dead. (Heck Neal/Baelfire had to prove to his own father he was real and not just another vision.)

2. Emma tells her parents that she's not sad, she's pissed. She lost Neal a long time ago. Then he came back - and it scared her that the moment she saw him she knew she'd never stopped loving him.
And when he finally tells her loves her - he leaves again? She can't yell at him. She can't get angry at him for never telling her about Neverland. Plus, it's Neal's fault that Tamara took off with Henry - he brought Tamara to Storybrook and waived Tamara in Emma's face. So, Neal really deserves a Hook/Emma hookup (no pun intended). Serves him right for that bit with Tamara. Bit cathartic that.

3. Hook has been comforting to Emma in a way her parents have not. For multiple reasons - one he knew Baelfire when he was a boy, and is partly on the trip because he cared a great deal about Baelfire. Two - he knows Neverland. Three - he is a bit like Emma and Baelfire - a lost boy, who became a thief and a bit of a scoundrel to survive. If Rumplestilskin hadn't taken off - Rumple may have taken that role, although I doubt it.

4. If they hook-up in their search for Henry, in part because Hook is only one really helping Emma in her quest, everyone else is either getting in the way or mucking things up. And they find Neal/Baelfire still alive - whoa the drama. Nothing like smooching with your beloved step-son's true love. Not to mention the irony! Because...you know its sort of history repeating itself.
(Hook/Emma/Baelfire : Henry and Hook/Mela/Rumplestilskin: Baelfire....hard for any writer to pass up that opportunity for irony.)


Of the threesome, the one I feel the most sorry for is Hook. Because you know she's going to drop him like a hot potato once she sees Baelfire.

[Who I am shipping? Not that it matters, since first I learned from daytime soap operas that you do not romantically ship characters on tv. So..Eh...both. Or whomever provides the most interesting story long-term. Emma/Hook and Emma/Baelfire both work for me. So I'm happy either way. Although admittedly I want Swanfire...first better shipping name that Swook. And second, I like that coupling better...(I admittedly have an actor crush on Michael Raymond-James that goes back to True Blood and Terriers.) And third - it works better long-term, more drama. Hook/Emma can't really go very far. In short, I'd like her to have a fling with Hook (because hello, the gal has only dated one guy that we know of since Neal and that one died, while Neal has been around not to mention ENGAGED). ]

So, even though it appears to be the love triangle of doom! It's not really that bad. LOST-- this isn't. Thank you god.

5. Emma's difficultly calling Tinkerbell, well Tink or Tinkerbell - I could identify with. Emma and I are on the same page regarding Tink, who is alarmingly unhelpful. Although correct about the need for an exit plan.

This is repeated, you can't get out of Neverland without Pan's permission. So Pan's imagination and magic fuels Neverland. But apparently he's lost a little of the mojo. And needs Henry to refuel. He'd wanted Baelfire long ago...but when he realized it was Baelfire's son he was hunting, he let Baelfire go.

6. Also, apparently the ability to remove a shadow...isn't so easy. Only Rumple and Pan know how.
Why is that? Baelfire didn't believe Rumple could do it.

7. I guess Owen is dead. There was not much left of him after Pan ripped off his shadow - according to Tink. Regina seemed delighted. Can't say I blame her.

So we have two problems now: 1) Getting Henry away from Pan and 2) Getting out of Neverland.
This may involve either making a deal with Pan or killing him.

Comments

[yourlibrarian]

That's an interesting suggestion that they're brothers. It would certainly explain a lot about Peter's interest in Henry. Agreed about the actor, and I also quite liked him being the Pied Piper -- it made a lot of sense.

What I'd like to see an explanation of is how Peter was behind the two magic hunters and their believed "organization" -- none of that makes any sense at the moment and I suspect they plan to sweep that under the rug.

Regarding love triangles, I was pretty amused that an ad for Revenge during the show advertised the "love rhombus."

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Wee! Bae/Rumple team-up!

Too bad it didn't last, but not the least bit surprising. Seriously trust issues on both sides. Hope springs eternal they'll have more bonding opportunities. There was something symbolic in Neal screwing up his Henry rescue without Rumple's help, and Rumple telling his Belle-conscience to take a hike. Kinda scared for both of them right now, but I think Henry is their common bond.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I'd agree. Henry may well bring them together in the end, although tonight he split them apart - but he was unconscious at the time.

Rumple is very good at shooting himself in the foot. But he also tends to be quite good at being right. "You won't be able to get away from Pan without my help!" Baelfire: "We'll see about that." Oh well, at least he almost found Emma.

There's nothing that annoys me more than near misses. I'm glad they had Rumple and Baelfire run into each other. Because it would have annoyed me if we spent weeks with them wandering about and missing each other.

Also, adored the team-up and the back-story, which like last week's with Tinkerbell - revealed quite a bit about Pan.

Now I'm wondering who Pan is.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

I hope he is NOT Rumple's brother. Maybe a childhood friend, or a childhood frenemy. We don't need more extended family in an already whacked-out family tree. But Pan knows quite a bit about Henry and his family tree, and his point that Henry is the culmination of light and dark was an interesting one, as that has magical resonance in other story universes. It might not totally be a crock of sh!t he made up to psyche Henry out and manipulate him.

Loved seeing the actor who plays young Bae again. Hope he is contracted to do a goodly number of Neverland flashbacks this season. And it makes total sense that he escaped Neverland only because Pan figured out he was destined to be the father of the boy Pan was seeking, and could only achieve that destiny by growing up.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Oh, I agree. This story is incestuous enough as it is. Please just make Pan a friend.

Also Henry as the culmination of light and dark - has been hinted at before, and he is in a way. He was raised by Regina, his grandfather is Rumplestilskin, his father was a thief that abandoned his mother...while his mother is a bail-bondsman (which Regina keeps pointing out and is important) and a savior, not to mention the child of Snow White and Prince Charming.

Bail bondsmen...basically find people who have jumped bail and bring them in. They are good at finding people who don't want to be found and taking them home to face the consequences of their actions, not leaving their families or friends to pay for them. It's an interesting occupation for Emma to have chosen. That and Sheriff.

Neal/Bae chose thief. And is always running. Escaping from things. He's an escape artist.

Henry is the combination of that.

I second your love for the actor playing young Baelfire. He's actually my favorite child-actor in the cast. I adore that actor. The Baelfire story is working quite well for me.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

I'm still holding out hope of an episode featuring grown up Baelfire getting re-recruited back into the Lost Boys and them giving him a hard time about his middle-aged status a la the Robin Williams movie "Hook." Then, like that movie, he must rediscover his inner boy to save his child, from Pan in this case rather than Captain Hook.

I don't know if anyone noticed an episode or two back when someone had the line, "Remember what happened to Rufio!"

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

That would require a lot of time...although it is possible.

Okay who is Rufio? I didn't notice that line. Is it from Hook? It's admittedly been a while since I've seen the movie.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

BTW, I loved what they did with the Pied Piper thing, which for one split second seemed like a Gratuitous FTL flashback just to do some Rumple/Bae backstory set during a period of their lives we've already seen and bring in another fairy tale they hadn't used yet. But yeah, Pied Piper=Peter Pan makes a lot of sense when you know something about both traditional stories, and as a OUAT mashup.

One thing that makes regular OUAT so much more workable for me than OUAT: Wonderland (to be fair--so far) is that OUAT still turns emotionally on parent-child relationships over romantic relationships. True love has a role to play, but most especially in what it produces: children. Which is why I think for the writers Neal/Emma has more of a chance than Emma/Anyone else.

And if they do go on a Hook/Emma tangent, it will be Really Messed Up&Twisted precisely because Hook and Baelfire have a father-son relationship and Hook's real true love was Bae's mother.

[liliaeth]

Actually, what I like about Ouat in wonderland is that they got the love story out of the way for the most part. Sure it's there, but it's not the center of the story, it's just in the background, while the foreground story is the friendship and growing trust between Alice and the Knave. (that and I love the idea of the damnsel in distress trope getting turned on its ear, and it being the girl who gets to do the quest to save her love interest)

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Would agree. I'm admittedly loving OUAT: Wonderland, because I'm a sucker for the woman saving the guy bit or guy as damsel trope. It's my favorite story trope. Wonderland reminds me a great deal of Hans Christian Anderson's The Snow Queen in that respect. The focus is on her rescue of the Genie, the friendship with the Knave, and not really on the romance.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

But the heroine's Quest is to find her love, and then what happens once she finds him? I've gotten cynical about TV writers' ability to write happy couples--they seem to equate drama with creating problems in the relationship, instead of having couples face problems outside their relationship together (Snow/Charming is a good example of doing this successfully. They were always interesting together when they had a common goal, and boring when the writers dug around to find ways to keep them apart).

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Keep in mind this isn't a long-term television series. It's a mini-series. Only 15-17 episodes. So not a problem. If it was a long-term television series like the parent show, OUAT, I'd agree with you.
But I honestly think they'll end it with them together.

Then if it does well? They'll do another spin-off miniseries featuring other characters.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

If it gets good ratings, they won't leave it at mini-series status.

[buffyannotater.livejournal.com]

The writers promised that, if it is renewed, it will be an entirely new self-contained arc, possibly with some of the same characters, but not necessarily. My guess is that whether or not Alice and Cyrus are in next season, if it happens, the next story will simply have them as a couple, with the source of conflict coming from elsewhere. They likened the concept more to American Horror Story, albeit not with actors playing different roles, but basically a series of miniseries...and if it isn't renewed, just a single, self-contained miniseries with everything completely wrapped up in the finale.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

But yeah, Pied Piper=Peter Pan makes a lot of sense when you know something about both traditional stories, and as a OUAT mashup.

Oh definitely. It also references the God Pan...who I think is both Greek and Celtic. With his "pipe" or "flute" - which he used to make people dance.
No, was very happy with this.

One thing that makes regular OUAT so much more workable for me than OUAT: Wonderland (to be fair--so far) is that OUAT still turns emotionally on parent-child relationships over romantic relationships. True love has a role to play, but most especially in what it produces: children. Which is why I think for the writers Neal/Emma has more of a chance than Emma/Anyone else.

I'd have to agree. While I enjoy Wonderland, I'm glad it's just going to be a 17 episode miniseries. Because you can't sustain a show that focuses solely on romantic love much further than that - it gets boring. That's why tv series always break them up and put them with someone else - because the romantic tension dies. It's also why I generally speaking don't tend to ship romantic relationships on tv. You need more. Kids, family, something to create conflict. Otherwise it's just breaking them up, and putting them back together (or as an example? Buffy/Angel (Buffy) and Kate/Jack (LOST) - which got dull by mid-season 3). On Wonderland? I foresee a love triangle between Alice/Knave and Genie. Because again conflict and drama.

And it's also why I like OUAT better, because familial relationships are more interesting, as are friendships. Also Neal/Emma has more longevity because of the family relationship angle.
(Arguments over Henry, raising Henry, dealing with crazy grandparents.)

And if they do go on a Hook/Emma tangent, it will be Really Messed Up&Twisted precisely because Hook and Baelfire have a father-son relationship and Hook's real true love was Bae's mother.

This in a nutshell is why they are doing it. Because hello, what writer can pass that up? The irony alone is just too much fun.

Keep in mind that Hook took Bae's mother away from Bae and his father...if he got involved with Emma, history repeating itself. And it is definitely something Peter Pan, who excels at mind-games, could use to create a rift between Henry and Emma or against Emma and Baelfire.

It works from a plot and character standpoint on multiple levels.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

And now I await us both being completely wrong about our predictions on this, because the OUAT writers do that. A lot.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

True. Quite true.

[ponygirl2000.livejournal.com]

Is no one hoping for a Charming/Hook fling? C'mon! Charming was very insistent about correcting Hook on his hotness levels.

;)

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

LOL!

They do have a certain ...ust in those little scenes. Hook like Emma seems to be able to generate chemistry with everyone.

[ponygirl2000.livejournal.com]

It's the eyeliner.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Yep. A man always looks better with eyeliner. Apparently they've applied more this year. The one makeup note for Hook - more eyeliner.

I noticed this was true of Spike as well - he was so much better looking with eyeliner. It also seemed to hatch a million slash fics.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

I'm sure you can find plenty of Chook flingings in the FanficSphere. Or would it be Harming?

[ponygirl2000.livejournal.com]

I'll be harming someone if those names are actually in use.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Seriously, I want to write that now, because Snow's only reaction would be to watch.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I'm willing to bet someone has. Also how much you want to bet that there is Rumple/Hook fic out there? Wonder what they are called? Captain Dearies?

OUAT's fandom names are hilarious. Much more interesting than Buffy's. We really weren't that creative were we?

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Rumple/Hook is just a sign of fannish insanity. Hate=Love! War=Peace! Captivity=Freedom!

Carry on, then mates.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Yet it appears to exist in all fandoms.

Harry/Voldemart and Harry/Draco (which made a little more sense)

Spike/Xander (I admittedly could see Spike/Xander because the writers played with that) or Xander/Angel (not so much).

Seriously, if there's a way, fans will ship it. I discovered that when I discovered fanfic in 2001. Some of it blew my mind.

[buffyannotater.livejournal.com]

I hate that I know this, but the 'ship name for Hook/Charming is Captain Charming. The OUaT fandom is actually quite clever with their couple names, not always just smooshing names together. For example, Emma/Regina is Swan Queen, Aurora/Mulan is Sleeping Warriors, Rumple/Cora is Golden Hearts, Emma/Hook is Captain Swan... Meanwhile, fans of certain characters have their own names. Regina fans are the Evil Regals. Emma fans are the White Knights. Rumple fans are Dearies. Hook fans are Hookers. Whale fans are Whale Watchers. Snow White fans are the Fairest, etc etc

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

"Dearies". Isn't that the term he uses when he's talking down to someone?

Think I'll stay here in my little corner of fandom where everyone likes someone different from everyone else and we all have fun in our diverse opinions and observations.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Yes, I've decided lj is easier...for one thing I can ignore the people I don't like. ;-) Which you couldn't do on fanboards, well you could, but not as easily.

And the current platforms for fan discussion give me a headache. I preferred voy, sure it crashed, but at least you could follow the threads. You can't on forums, and forget Tumblr and Twitter.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

I don't think they actually intend to have conversations on those forums. More like:

"Hey look at me and my cool Thing!"

- Reply A

- Reply B

- Reply C

Forget A, B and C actually talking to each other.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's what I've noticed as well. It's incredibly dull.

Or they respond to each other with phrases in the subject heading.

Example?

A: I hate Snow, she's horrible.
B: Your hate is so pretty.
C: Regina is worse.

This makes me wonder if people are 12. (The sad truth is...they are in their 20s and 30s.)

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I'd have to agree...the OUAT fandom is far more creative than the other fandoms. I rather like Golden Hearts and Sleeping Warriors. Also Captain Charming isn't bad. Interesting they didn't go with Prince Hook or Queen Swan.

Dearies? LOL! I guess I'm a Dearie, White Knight, Captain Swan, Golden Heart and Swanfire. I know Swanfire is for Baelfire/Emma - because I stumbled onto that fandom recently.

Curious? What are Belle fans? Or Rumple/Belle Fans? Beauties? And Beauty Beasts? Or Beastly Beauties?

[buffyannotater.livejournal.com]

Rumple/Belle is one of the portmanteau ones, "RumBelle," which at least is a pretty clever pun. They seem to only do that when the word actually works.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

C'mon, "Harmings" totally works! I should totally start using that, it'll catch on in no time...

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

It truly does...nice pun. I can see Snow or Emma coming up with that one.

[atpo-onm.livejournal.com]

Harmony and Prince Charming? You mean there's Buffy/OUaT crossover fic already???

Frightened now...

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Dear lord...noooo!;-)

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Okay, that's actually better than Beastly Beauties.

[buffyannotater.livejournal.com]

And, yeah, Belle fans are Beauties, afaik.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I like Pan as a villain. That was a smart move by the show.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Agreed. Far more interesting than Hook would have been. Also nice twist, if you think Hook's a rogue and villain, just wait until you meet Pan. I wonder if there's anyone nice in Neverland? I suppose you could say Tinkerbell is?

Also...Pan works as a nice foil to both Kid!Baelfire and Henry.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

So far, Tinkerbell seems like a [pardonmyfrench] twat. Make mistakes, blame other people for them. Have mommy issues with someone who knows Exactly How You Need to Act to Be a Good [insert here: fairy, queen, whathaveyou]. Which makes her a good foil for Regina.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Agreed.

And..oh, she is definitely a good foil for Regina. Actually it's the only thing I like about the character. Well that and Emma's comments.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Emma's reactions are so classic because in this regard, she's a stand in for the audience who grew up on Disney. Even Henry is outside that sort of upbringing because Storybrooke was never a normal place, even if they had Disney movies at the theater (and how whacked is that).

But Emma, Emma would have gone in the van full of foster kids to the movie and saw the cartoons and scoffed all the way home about what a crock they were, secretly wishing she had a fairy god mother or could go to Neverland like the rest of us did.

So now she's getting the Real Inside Story, and of course, what can she say except, "Really?"

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

LOL! That's one of the things I love about the characters of Emma and Neal. They both act in some respects as stand-in's for the audience. Neal's commentary in both the Enchanted Forest and Neverland regarding how the stories were written in reality, and Emma's.