![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkatThis is the last question/assignment that I received under the January Talking Meme:
January 28:![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
curiouswolf asked me to Analyze Spike's IDW comics supporting cast.
Eh, before I attempt this...I'm linking you to all the meta that I wrote on Buffy and Angel and the respective comics : 1. Buffy and Comics Meta and 2. Angel and Comics Meta.
I reviewed my posts on the comics and realized, no, even back then I didn't find the supporting characters worth analyzing. I did enjoy comics more though. Weird how tastes change.
Anyhow...I'm narrowing this down to the Spike Comic series. (not Spike:After the Fall, Spike:Shadow Puppets, or Spike: Asylum) Mainly because Lynch liked to create his own characters and there are a lot of them. The memorable ones, I'll discuss.
1. Beta George - he's a floating blue and purple fish (or Splenden Beast - not to be confused with the sweetner) that talks telepathically - he can only speak to you telepathically. And he likes to snark a lot. Often used as comic relief. First appearance was in Spike:Asylum. Spike met George in group therapy at the Mosaic Wellness Center - which he got tricked into admitting himself to by the parents of one of his past victims.
I think he's also used to a degree as Spike's conscience. He questions Spike's actions quite a bit, and often says things like - we're all going to die or this is so not going to work.
In some respects he reminds me a great deal of Spike in the Buffy series.
Other than that...there's not much there.
According to Wiki:
Lynch says that he writes George as an audience surrogate, "He's supposed to be the most normal character. Because I know that if you have a talking fish hanging out with everyone's favorite characters, people are going to not like him immediately. Because he could be Jar Jar very easily. So I try to make him the nicest, most normal character, and the one who would react like the audience would react." He also denies that Betta George speaks in any particular accent, but advises readers to hear him in their own accent, to help them identify with him.
Whedon liked the character so much, he agreed to have him in the Angel After the Fall series which initially was supposed to be canonical to the Buffy S8 series, but Whedon, fickle as ever, changed his mind and waffled back and forth over it. I'm not sure what the final outcome was, but since the Buffy comics are chop full of continuity errors and Whedon barely seemed to be engaged..I'd long ago determined that it was a separate universe and not connected to the tv series, except for the fact that the original creator was vaguely involved.
2.) Beck - Beck is a pyrotechnic whose powers are set off by emotion, she's also a bit of an empath. She also has the ability to heal rapidly - which comes in handy when you set things on fire. Spike met her at Mosaic Wellness Center, and together they freed the center from WRH's regime.
Beck has a thing for Spike. It's sort of a combo of hero worship and a crush. At first thought to be a love interest, she comes across as more of a faithful pet. And reminds me a little bit of Fred in Angel - or Fred's devotion to Angel initially.
Beck got her powers by bonding with a fire elemental when she was six years old - and accidentally torched her parents and younger brother as a result. No, they did not survive.
She's now attached herself a bit to Spike. In Shadow Puppets - she was wearing his clothes and acting like him - as if he was a role model. In the Spike series, she has a tough gal outfit and is flirtatious. Sort of a female version of the Spike character or wannabe.
3) Jeremy Johns - He first makes his appearance in Spike After the Fall. A human that Spike rescues, and becomes Spike's friend and right hand man. Eventually, Illyria ends up killing him - but when Angel reverses time and eradicates the hell dimension, Jeremy is alive, albeit with memories of his time in hell. In the Spike series - he pops up again, but is possessed by a demon from WRH. Willow frees him and Drusilla almost kills him, but he manages to survive regardless. He reminds me a great deal of Gunn in the Angel series, except not as interesting or developed.
Lynch named him after Jim Halpert in the Office and the character is largely based on him. Which explains a lot.
There's really not much to analyze here. He's basically a reflection of human William or a modernized version.
4) Various girlfriends thrown at Spike by Lynch:
* Tok Shinobu -only appearance was in Spike: Shadow Puppets. She was a ninja warrior who specialized in killing vampires and other supernatural threats. (Apparently Lynch had been inspired by Tarantino's Kill Bill, either that or Wolverine comics.) Her father was killed by a vampire and she devoted her life to killing them soon afterwards. (Think female version of Robin Wood, except cooler.) Anyhow, she develops an attraction for Spike. They briefly hook up. And we don't really see her in future comics.
What's interesting is her back-story is reminiscent of Kate's in Angel the Series.
* Maria (aka Spider) Harley - a character that squicked me with her spider appendiges. I'm an arachnophobe - so not particularly fond of spiders.
Anyhow, she aided Spike when Los Angeles went to hell. Then developed a bit of a romantic attachment/obsession with him - and attempted to seduce him when they were captured by the villianess Non.
Not an interesting character. Lynch later uses her to satirize the Twilight films. Actually, Dark Horse and Lynch went a wee bit overboard in satirizing the Twilight films and fandom.
5) Lorn and the Groosleuge. Lorn was used in various Spike comics as a side-kick, until Andy Hallet's untimely death and IDW policy made the character off-limits, believing the character should die as well. (I'm not sure that's a good tribute...but mileage varies.)
So, Groo, the guy who fell for Cordy in S3...in Angel the Series, pops up with the Dragon.
Mainly so - Lynch through Spike can mock him. He doesn't appear to serve any other purpose.
Lorne was more interesting and more sympatico to Spike.
The problem with comics - at least the Dark Horse and IDW comics - is more time is spent on plot, theme, satirical snarking, and action then really character development. The other problem, may be that I've lost interest in the topic? If your heart isn't in it - it's hard to do. And my heart has sort of moseyed onwards.
Will state - that while I preferred the Lynch comics to any of the other ones depicting the Whedonverse, they didn't quite fit my view of the Whedonverse or Spike. Lynch wrote Spike a wee bit too much like John Constantine or a Philip Marlow character. He lacked some of Spike's poetry, or for that matter his romanticism. I don't know, something was slightly off in the portrayal, I just don't know what it was. It could be that the character really only works for me on-screen, performed by Marsters.
Not my best analysis...but I hope it answered the question or was somewhat interesting at least.
January 28:
curiouswolf asked me to Analyze Spike's IDW comics supporting cast.Eh, before I attempt this...I'm linking you to all the meta that I wrote on Buffy and Angel and the respective comics : 1. Buffy and Comics Meta and 2. Angel and Comics Meta.
I reviewed my posts on the comics and realized, no, even back then I didn't find the supporting characters worth analyzing. I did enjoy comics more though. Weird how tastes change.
Anyhow...I'm narrowing this down to the Spike Comic series. (not Spike:After the Fall, Spike:Shadow Puppets, or Spike: Asylum) Mainly because Lynch liked to create his own characters and there are a lot of them. The memorable ones, I'll discuss.
1. Beta George - he's a floating blue and purple fish (or Splenden Beast - not to be confused with the sweetner) that talks telepathically - he can only speak to you telepathically. And he likes to snark a lot. Often used as comic relief. First appearance was in Spike:Asylum. Spike met George in group therapy at the Mosaic Wellness Center - which he got tricked into admitting himself to by the parents of one of his past victims.
I think he's also used to a degree as Spike's conscience. He questions Spike's actions quite a bit, and often says things like - we're all going to die or this is so not going to work.
In some respects he reminds me a great deal of Spike in the Buffy series.
Other than that...there's not much there.
According to Wiki:
Lynch says that he writes George as an audience surrogate, "He's supposed to be the most normal character. Because I know that if you have a talking fish hanging out with everyone's favorite characters, people are going to not like him immediately. Because he could be Jar Jar very easily. So I try to make him the nicest, most normal character, and the one who would react like the audience would react." He also denies that Betta George speaks in any particular accent, but advises readers to hear him in their own accent, to help them identify with him.
Whedon liked the character so much, he agreed to have him in the Angel After the Fall series which initially was supposed to be canonical to the Buffy S8 series, but Whedon, fickle as ever, changed his mind and waffled back and forth over it. I'm not sure what the final outcome was, but since the Buffy comics are chop full of continuity errors and Whedon barely seemed to be engaged..I'd long ago determined that it was a separate universe and not connected to the tv series, except for the fact that the original creator was vaguely involved.
2.) Beck - Beck is a pyrotechnic whose powers are set off by emotion, she's also a bit of an empath. She also has the ability to heal rapidly - which comes in handy when you set things on fire. Spike met her at Mosaic Wellness Center, and together they freed the center from WRH's regime.
Beck has a thing for Spike. It's sort of a combo of hero worship and a crush. At first thought to be a love interest, she comes across as more of a faithful pet. And reminds me a little bit of Fred in Angel - or Fred's devotion to Angel initially.
Beck got her powers by bonding with a fire elemental when she was six years old - and accidentally torched her parents and younger brother as a result. No, they did not survive.
She's now attached herself a bit to Spike. In Shadow Puppets - she was wearing his clothes and acting like him - as if he was a role model. In the Spike series, she has a tough gal outfit and is flirtatious. Sort of a female version of the Spike character or wannabe.
3) Jeremy Johns - He first makes his appearance in Spike After the Fall. A human that Spike rescues, and becomes Spike's friend and right hand man. Eventually, Illyria ends up killing him - but when Angel reverses time and eradicates the hell dimension, Jeremy is alive, albeit with memories of his time in hell. In the Spike series - he pops up again, but is possessed by a demon from WRH. Willow frees him and Drusilla almost kills him, but he manages to survive regardless. He reminds me a great deal of Gunn in the Angel series, except not as interesting or developed.
Lynch named him after Jim Halpert in the Office and the character is largely based on him. Which explains a lot.
There's really not much to analyze here. He's basically a reflection of human William or a modernized version.
4) Various girlfriends thrown at Spike by Lynch:
* Tok Shinobu -only appearance was in Spike: Shadow Puppets. She was a ninja warrior who specialized in killing vampires and other supernatural threats. (Apparently Lynch had been inspired by Tarantino's Kill Bill, either that or Wolverine comics.) Her father was killed by a vampire and she devoted her life to killing them soon afterwards. (Think female version of Robin Wood, except cooler.) Anyhow, she develops an attraction for Spike. They briefly hook up. And we don't really see her in future comics.
What's interesting is her back-story is reminiscent of Kate's in Angel the Series.
* Maria (aka Spider) Harley - a character that squicked me with her spider appendiges. I'm an arachnophobe - so not particularly fond of spiders.
Anyhow, she aided Spike when Los Angeles went to hell. Then developed a bit of a romantic attachment/obsession with him - and attempted to seduce him when they were captured by the villianess Non.
Not an interesting character. Lynch later uses her to satirize the Twilight films. Actually, Dark Horse and Lynch went a wee bit overboard in satirizing the Twilight films and fandom.
5) Lorn and the Groosleuge. Lorn was used in various Spike comics as a side-kick, until Andy Hallet's untimely death and IDW policy made the character off-limits, believing the character should die as well. (I'm not sure that's a good tribute...but mileage varies.)
So, Groo, the guy who fell for Cordy in S3...in Angel the Series, pops up with the Dragon.
Mainly so - Lynch through Spike can mock him. He doesn't appear to serve any other purpose.
Lorne was more interesting and more sympatico to Spike.
The problem with comics - at least the Dark Horse and IDW comics - is more time is spent on plot, theme, satirical snarking, and action then really character development. The other problem, may be that I've lost interest in the topic? If your heart isn't in it - it's hard to do. And my heart has sort of moseyed onwards.
Will state - that while I preferred the Lynch comics to any of the other ones depicting the Whedonverse, they didn't quite fit my view of the Whedonverse or Spike. Lynch wrote Spike a wee bit too much like John Constantine or a Philip Marlow character. He lacked some of Spike's poetry, or for that matter his romanticism. I don't know, something was slightly off in the portrayal, I just don't know what it was. It could be that the character really only works for me on-screen, performed by Marsters.
Not my best analysis...but I hope it answered the question or was somewhat interesting at least.
no subject
Date: 2014-01-29 09:33 am (UTC)This is very true. I think even the most rabid comics defenders have got the message now. They've either disappeared, or stated openly that they've lowered their expectations (though some - inexplicably to me - will still claim that season 8 is better than season 7, or some such nonsense).
no subject
Date: 2014-01-29 11:32 pm (UTC)S7 was kinder to Spike fans and Willow fans. Also for that matter - Giles fans, Faith fans, Angel fans, and Buffy fans.
S8 is kinder to Dawn, Warren, Amy, Andrew, the Potentials, and Xander fans and Dawn/Xander shippers.
So there's that. And from various arguments that I've had with various people regarding the comics? It also depends on how you perceived the "sharing the slayer power" storyline in S7, and how you perceived the Twangel storyline in S8. Personally, I had no issues with the whole sharing the slayer power story in S7...or minor ones, it could have been neater and cleaner, but overall - not bad and rather inspiring. But I know a lot of people passionately disagreed. And I found the Twangel storyline far-fetched, laughable, bizarre, illogical, and on a thematic level - highly offensive and sort of misogynistic. A lot of people saw it the reverse. Which bewildered me, but it is what is.
But that's all on the subjective level.
On an objective one? I think even if they hadn't done Twangel, which actually gave the story a bit of energy towards the end, I still wouldn't have loved it. It still lacked the development and emotional resonance of the tv series. I don't think it's necessarily the medium, since I've gotten that emotional resonance from other comics in the past. I think it's how they chose to write it - too much meta, not enough character development. (ie. Please ignore the fans, and just write the story - thank you.)
no subject
Date: 2014-01-30 02:15 pm (UTC)Curiouswolf
no subject
Date: 2014-01-30 11:05 pm (UTC)Glad you were able to view it.