GoT s4...episode 1 and Wed Reading Meme...

[shadowkat]

1. Enjoyed the first episode of Game of Thrones - Season 4 - rather better than the books in some respects. And it's quite different. Actually at this point, the television series and the books are no longer that close in plot. The TV series took a few left hand turns.

I vaguely remember reading on GRRM's blog several years back that he saw the series as a way of fixing a few mistakes in plotting that he regretted in the books. Apparently he felt that he may have written a few characters into a corner, and was struggling to find a way of getting them out of it? (My memory of it is vague and don't feel like hunting it down.) The tv series adaptation provided another path.

If that's the case? I sort of agree.



* What they changed was Jamie and Brienne make it to King's Landing prior to Joffrey's wedding to Margarey. This is a big deal. In the books, they arrive after the key events that took place around and after that wedding. And a lot of characters muse on what may have happened if they'd been there.

There's a great conversation that they have - which couldn't happen in the books, where Brienne asks Jaime when he's going to fulfill his promise to Lady Caitlin and send Sansa and Ayra back to their family. Jamie smartly retorts:"Last time I checked Ayra is gone, most likely dead, and Sansa is married to my brother. What do you want me to do, kidnap my sister-in-law and escort to her dead mother? She's safer here in Kings Landing then out there. Are you sure you aren't a Lannister? That we aren't related? You certainly have the coloring and the attitude - to be a miserable pain in my ass. " (Not exact...but close enough). I applauded the first part of this speech because it was what I was thinking all the way through Feast of Crows. And the second part was just hilarious.

In some respects Jaime is more interesting here than the books. Although, I think he may be prettier in the books or at least blonder.

* The scene between the Queen of Thorns and Brienne also never took place in the books and is wonderful. Nor did the scenes between Jaime and his father, or Joffrey - who despicable to everyone and really slaughters Jaime. One can't help but wonder how Joffrey would react if he discovered Jaime was his biological father - not the man he worships and attempts to emulate.

* Shae's jealousy of Tyrion and Sansa doesn't work for me.

* I like the re-cast of Daario - that was a stroke of genius. Nipped the problem in the bud. He comes across as charming and seductive. Far more so than the pretty boy they'd originally cast in the role.

* The dragons are cool - great CGI! This show is good with its CGI, it's used sparingly and effectively.



2. Wed Reading Meme


What did you just finish reading?

Magic Strikes by Illona Andrews - which turned out to be amongst the best and most entertaining urban fantasy novels that I've read. Urban fantasy tends to slide towards horror and gothic/dark fantasy. Lots of mythological monsters. The featured ones in this novel came straight out of Hindu mythology. The rakashahsas. Shiva, Vishnu, and Ravinda were also mentioned and in detail. Learned a lot about the mythos and in a fun way. It's sort of an equal opportunity genre blend: paranormal fantasy, romance, noire, mystery, action-adventure, horror, thriller with just a touch of tech sci-fi.

One of my favorite bits is two badass fighters discussing historical romance novels.

Raphael: I have a question regarding these pirate romance novels. All the bad boy heroes kidnap the heroine's family members in order to convince the heroine to give up her virtue and take over their lives.
Kate: You actually read the books?
Raphael: Yes. I wanted to understand Andrea better. But here's the thing, if this is what Andrea wants in a man, I don't think I can do that.
Kate: What is your fetish or fantasy? Andrea dressed as cheerleader, nurse, french maid, catholic school girl...
Raphael (dreamily): Catholic School Girl.
Kate: See, it's like that. But I would not advise that you go out and kidnap Andrea's family members, because if you did - she'd fire fifteen bullets into your head without thinking twice.

The plot involves amongst other things - the characters taking part in an underground gladiator game. What these writers excel at is snarky tongue in cheek banter. Which is harder to pull off than you might think.

What you are reading now?

Magic Bleeds - which starts out as a mystery. Kate is attempting to figure out who is trying to spread a deadly magical plague around Atlanta. She also adopts...an attack poodle or rescues it. This book is making me crave a kitty or a dog. And I just can't.

The writers have done their research regarding animals. I don't tend to like shapeshifter or were stories - find them to be silly, over-the-top, and sort of unrealistic. But this one is working for me. It's a virus that causes the shape-shifting. And shape-shifters can go one of two ways - 1) Adopt the Code, or 2) go Loup (insane and have to be put down). These writers are rather good at world-building and consistency...well almost. They keep screwing up with time lines. In one book ten months have passed since the death of the heroine's mentor, in the next 6. But I'm hand waving that.

The writers also like to write their own fanfic about their own books. Thank the internet for this new phenomenon. Gordon Andrews, Illona's hubby, has written various short stories from the male lead/Kate's romantic love interest's pov. Unfortunately some of them are hard to access because after he wrote them, he removed them from the site. So only the handful that they self-published are available on their site. Nothing is from Amazon.

The romance is secondary to these novels. It's there, but the mystery/conflict comes first, sort of like the Harry Dresden Files. It's basically a female version of those in some respects. But a much denser world, and everyone knows magic exists - because it hits them in waves.

What you will be reading next?

I'm devouring these novels like yummy chocolate. The next one is Magic Slays.
The series is: 1) Magic Bites, 2) Magic Burns, 3) Magic Strikes, 4) Magic Bleeds, 5) Magic Slays, 6) Magic Rises, and to be released in July - Magic Breaks.
In between - there a few short stories, a novella - Magic Gifts, Magic Morns (Andrea short story), Magic Dreams (Kate's merc partner Jim and his love interest, a half-blind, Asian shape-shifting Tiger), and Gunmetal Magic (a book about Andrea).

Witty banter is hard to come by in books for some reason. Detailed descriptions, poetic prose...not a problem. But good snarky banter and witty commentary? Hard to find. I don't why this is. I find myself laughing my head off through these books. The authors clearly have my sense of humor.

Question? When you read - do you stick with one author you like, or jump around or does it depend?

For me? It depends. I'll read a series - if I like it. But it's unlikely I'll read other books by the same author. Often I've found highly prolific writers get really lazy or get really lazy editors, can't decide which. I remember reading a lot of Stephen King at one stage - mainly because I liked his writing style and focus on character to drive story. Neil Gaiman frustrates me - I want to love his books, because I find the writer adorable, and his books deal with interesting things - but more often then not, I find them sort of boring and my attention wanders. The writing is beautiful..but too much pretty prose, not enough character development or witty banter. Gaiman isn't a master at dialogue, description, dialogue...and his lead characters often feel like cyphers.

Spoke to a co-worker - who mainly reads Sidney Sheldon. She adores Sidney Sheldon. I'd think she'd run out eventually.

And as a writer myself...I find the idea that readers stick to just one author, off-putting. Mainly because I'm not a serial writer. I prefer to write novels about different characters and stories, which are not connected. Of course I haven't found a way of getting published either...so it hardly matters, does it? Plus, I admittedly have been known to binge read books by a handful of writers whose writing style and story-telling style I love. For example: JRR Tolkien, CS Lewis,
Anne McCaffrey, Dorothy Dunnett's Chronicles of Lymond, Minette Walters (stopped after four books, her early ones are great - never could get into the later ones), and recently Sherry Thomas, Courtney Milan...and Meredith Duran.

Bought three books for my neice - for her 10th birthday. They are:

1. The Girl Who Circumvented Fairy Land in a Ship of Her Own Making by Catherinne Valente
2. Flora and Ulysses - about a girl who saves a magical talking squirrel
3. The Kids Book of Chess - medieval illustrations - figured my brother could play it with her

Comments

[sophist.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure there was a Jaime/Tywin scene that's similar to what we saw. I have this recollection of Jaime saying "I don't want your rock."

Of course, I haven't read the books in years.

I thought the scene at the Inn was great, but I really did want to see it on screen the way it happened in the books.

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure there was a Jaime/Tywin scene that's similar to what we saw. I have this recollection of Jaime saying "I don't want your rock."


There is. And Tywin tells Jaime "you are not my son" at the end of it, though he doesn't give him the sword in the scene in the books - that comes later, as a sort of bribe/gift to Jaime who's no longer speaking to his father.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that sounds familiar. Thanks.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I can't remember the scene at the inn from the books at all...wasn't it similar? The actress playing Ayra is really getting across how hate is twisting her character.

You remember the book better than I do. Read Storm of Swords way back in...2010, I think. Completely forgot the Jaime/Tywin section in the book.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

In the books, the scene at the inn involved Polliver, the Tickler, and a squire. Arya first took out the squire and then went utterly berserk on the Tickler, yelling the questions he asked as he tortured the villagers: "Is there gold in the village?" "Where is Lord Beric?" etc.

They did a smaller version of that in the last episode of S3 when Arya and the Hound rode past some Frey soldiers bragging about the Red Wedding. There is no such scene in the books.

I wouldn't say hate, but I would say vengeance. Yeah, she's going down the vengeance path in a very big way. Personally, I'm several million light years past considerations of justice when it comes to the Freys and Lannisters, so I have no problem with her doing so. No one else will.

And I absolutely LOVE the way Maisie Williams plays Arya.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

While I agree on the Freys, I actually like some of the Lannisters.
Jamie and Tyrion remain two of my favorite characters - both have great lines. Also Tywin is interesting as portrayed by Charles Dance.

Cersei and Joffrey on the other hand...I wouldn't mind seeing slaughtered.

But it won't be by Ayra.

Maisie Williams is rather brilliant as Ayra.

Vengeance and hate are basically the same. Vengeance is motivated in part by hate or maybe its vice versa??? GRRM does a good job of showing how vengeance doesn't end well.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

I doubt Arya will get to Jaime or Tyrion either.

I can see vengeance as motivated by hate. It's just that I didn't see hate in her eyes with Polliver. I saw a coldness and a calm recognition of what she was about to do. Maybe hatred is consistent with that; if so, I'll agree with you. But I read it more as her becoming cold and hardened. Not good either from a personal standpoint, but understandable given what she's been through.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Acting on hate or the desire for revenge...over time, leads to coldness.
Each time she kills or tortures someone..she slowly becomes the people she hates. It cuts away a slice of her empathy. She'd be better off...forgiving them and moving on, elsewhere, as the Hound was attempting to convince her to do. Men like Polliver will die horribly anyhow...due to how they live.

Same with the Lannisters - the Starks don't need to do anything, the Lannisters are going to implode from within.

Ayra by Dance of Dragons is a cold-blood killer. That's what hate does, it eats away your soul.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, I agree that she's a killer and that each act of killing sends her further down the road. It's not so clear, though, that scum like Polliver and The Tickler would die anyway. They seem like exactly the kind to escape unless someone goes after them deliberately. In any case, the soul of whoever kills them bears the cost, so it's just a question of who.

As I see it, Arya hasn't really had much choice. Events have controlled her; that's part of her problem. She tried hiding, but that left her ever more vulnerable. She couldn't stay where she was and she couldn't leave without killing (e.g., to escape King's Landing or Harrenhall). In the chaos of that world, with its basically amoral attitude to weakness and life, she really has no choice but to be strong or a victim.

I agree that she probably won't have to do much about the Lannisters. I do expect her to go after the Freys, though, and when she does I hope the chapter title is something like "The Assyrian came down like the wolf on the fold".

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

It depends on whether the series continues to follow the books. Because in the books - the Freys are destroyed by well other parties, and the Lannisters? By themselves, and other parties. Basically when it comes to the Freys and the Lannisters...Ayra has to stand in a very very long line.

Same deal with Polliver and the Tickler...there's a long line. They'd eventually get killed.

The Hound tries to dissuade her from going inside the Inn, avoiding it.
But she's determined. He knows from experience...that avoidance was the better option. But once they are inside, I agree, there's no real choice - it's kill or be killed or raped.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

I think most of the damage to the Freys comes from Lady Stoneheart, whom I see as the metaphor of Arya's vengeance. That may be overreading it, of course.

It's interesting that you mention the Hound's resistance. I hadn't focused on that before, but in the books, it's Arya who resists going into the Inn and the Hound who insists on it.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

It's interesting that you mention the Hound's resistance. I hadn't focused on that before, but in the books, it's Arya who resists going into the Inn and the Hound who insists on it.

Interesting. In the tv episode - it was the exact opposite. Ayra insisted on entering the Inn, and even runs into it - giving the Hound no choice but to follow.

I think most of the damage to the Freys comes from Lady Stoneheart, whom I see as the metaphor of Arya's vengeance. That may be overreading it, of course.

No...I think that was yet another metaphor regarding how vengeance turns you into its weapon, and you have no soul left.

Sort of like Anya the Vengeance Demon in Buffy.

Catelynn is brought back for only Vengeance. So the worst aspects of her return...the self-righteous, judgmental, unmerciful, cold heart.
Ayra similarly is becoming a sort of Lady Stoneheart, but a living version.

It shows what violence does to you. What war does. And how there are no victors, no winners, and no glory...just pain, torture, blood and vengeance. It's a very unromanticized take on WAR.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

"Catelynn is brought back for only Vengeance. So the worst aspects of her return...the self-righteous, judgmental, unmerciful, cold heart."

Yeah, that's why I see her as the metaphor for Arya's path. I'm not sure of the endgame there, but I can see Arya killing Stoneheart as a way of letting go of her vengeance. At least I'd like to see that.

"It shows what violence does to you. What war does. And how there are no victors, no winners, and no glory...just pain, torture, blood and vengeance. It's a very unromanticized take on WAR."

Very much yes. Martin is utterly cynical about the kind of world which existed in the Middle Ages and what it did to people. I like that he makes no effort to glamorize it, but lays it all out.

[rahirah]

I loved Anne McCaffrey as a teen, but revisiting the books when I was older was not a success. :P

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I admittedly haven't read any of them since I was 12, 13 or 14 years of age (it was around the 7th grade, I think.... I did recently buy Dragonflight, DragonQuest, and the White Dragon for 1.99 on the Kindle. It was a boxed set for Kindle for $1.99. With the idea of attempting a re-read sometime.

I don't know if I'll like it now. I remember loving the series. Adoring it.

[dlgood.livejournal.com]

One can't help but wonder how Joffrey would react if he discovered Jaime was his biological father - not the man he worships and attempts to emulate.

At this point, I don't think it would matter to Joffrey, except perhaps to heighten his contempt for Jamie, Cersei and King Robert. Fear and contempt are pretty much his primary emotions...

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Most likely true. Although occasionally the actor convey vulnerability or pain...at least he did last year. Still a sadistic and somewhat crazy creep overall. Why you shouldn't have kids with your siblings in a nutshell.

[dlgood.livejournal.com]

Oh, I think Jack Gleeson's fantastic as Joffrey. He does have other emotions besides contempt and fear, yes, but I think those are #1 and #2 with emotions #3 a long way behind.

Knowledge of his parentage would shake him, because his entire identity is built around being the rightful king, and all that entitles him. Not being Robert's son would endanger that, and it would make him fear anyone who knew the truth. He's a teenager. I think that would rate far above anything else.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I agree.

And..ghod, the casting on this series is amazing. Jack Gleeson is fantastic as Joffrey - he actually makes the one-dimensional character in the books - interesting.

So too does Lena Hedley with Cersei, and Charles Dance with Tywin.

And yep, we have to remember he's a teenager. And has been raised by not the best parents on the planet.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Brienne being in King's landing really does change a lot. I found it curious that they still reintroduced Sir Dontos. I figured that maybe Brienne would aid Sansa's escape. That would have been interesting.

I think they have a problem with Shae. Show Shae is way more of her own charakter than book Shae ever was. Book Shae is a projection of Tyrion's fantasies and I tend to think that she never actually cared for him. At the trial he learns that he was just deluding himself.

Show Shae, completely different story. I think show Shae needs to be motivated to turn on Tyrion and that's what they are trying to do here. But yeah, doesn't work too well for me either.

I agree that new Dario is better than old Dario, but I still think he should basically be Captain Jack Sparrow.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I think they are sort of going for the Capt. Jack Sparrow vibe with the new actor. (Short of hiring Johnny Depp - they can't completely go there.)

Re Shae? I think you may be right - they are attempting to provide motivation. Actually they are following the book fairly closely on that thread - if memory serves (I admittedly only vaguely remember it). Shae was visibly jealous and upset with Tyrion's relationship with Sansa and threatened by it - in the books and that was used as motivation. And it sort of worked in the books - she was an opportunist and when it became clear Tyrion wasn't going to make her his bride or concubine or mistress - she went elsewhere. Here - she's more complex and seems to genuinely care about Sansa and Tyrion, doesn't appear to be quite as opportunistic.

They still could have Brienne aid in Sansa's escape with Dontos. But...I don't think they'll go quite that route. Littlefinger is sort of at the center of all of that. But it is possible...Brienne will see Littlefinger the lesser of two evils. (I certainly did when I was reading the book).

[kathyh]

I used to binge read a lot, Tolkien and Dunnett particularly, but now I jump around and very rarely read books by the same author consecutively. I suspect my binge reading stopped when I started reading fanfic, but I'm not quite sure why. Possibly fanfic fulfilled my need to read compulsively about the same characters.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I go in phases.

Right now - I seem to be reading by intuition or mood.

And...binging on the same author? Depends. If I fall in love with their writing style - yep.
If I just fall for the characters or story? Unlikely. (Example Dunnett? I loved her characters, but not the writing style. So only read Chronicles of Lymond, not the other series.)

Was the same way with fanfiction. Some writers - I saw as go-to writers for fanfic, other's...only read one story and that was it.

Book serials are sort of similar to television serials...if I fall in love with all of the characters? Yes, will read all of them or will stick with the series. Particularly if the writer evolves the characters and develops them. If they don't - I'm gone.