Nifty Book Quote of the Week - (from Gunmetal Magic by Illona Andrews)

[shadowkat]

This book delves into ancient Egyptian myth, focusing on the story of Iedep (Anubis/Anapa), Set, Ra, Bast, and Adepep. The heroine, Andrea Nash, is trying to figure out how to kill Iedep/Anupis - who wants to take over her body. So she asks a Russian volhv (a priest of the Russian God of Darkness, Gregorbh (sp?)) if a god can be killed.

"Can a god be killed?"

The humor drained from Roman's face. "Well, that depends on if you're a pantheist or Marxist."

"What's the difference?"

"The first believes that divinity is the universe. The two are synonymous and nonexistent without each other. The second believes in anthropocentrism, seeing man in the center of the universe, and god as just an invention of human conscience. Of course, if you follow Nietzche, you can kill God just by thinking about him."

Ask a priest a question, get an enigmatic answer. Didn't matter what religion. "Roman," I said. "Can I kill Anubis?"

"I'm trying to answer. Anubis is a deity, a collection of specific concepts and beliefs. You can't kill a concept, because to do so you must destroy every human being who is aware of it. Your best bet would be to identify everyone who entertained the idea of his existence and shoot them in the head."

"So the answer is no?"

Roman sighed. " I didn't finish. You want simple answers to very complicated questions. The wrong questions. The question you should be asking isn't whether a god can be killed but what is Anubis. You must understand the nature of a thing before you can end its existence."

In another section of the novel, Anubis explains fractal mathematics. It includes a picture. It's rather cool. The writer has clearly spent a lot of time studying ancient mythology, religion, mathematics, and administrative and contract law, plus construction, reclamation, and military strategy. Best urban fantasy series ever.

[As an aside? I'm pretty sure I'm a pantheist, which I guess explains my issues with Marxism in a nutshell.]

Comments

[sophist.livejournal.com]

When my older daughter was about 4 or 5, I used to tell her stories from Greek mythology (yes, I know). Anyway, I explained to her that the Greeks believed that the gods lived forever. She thought about that for a minute and then said, "that's right, because they lived as long as somebody believed in them." I think that's the basic point Roman was making.

a

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Yes and no.

He's talking about several things here.

1. Marxist believe that gods exist or live as long as you believe in them, because they are a construct of the human mind. And only exist because man believes they exist. Neitzche more or less views it the same way.

2. Pantheist believe that gods are universal or part of the divine universe and man's belief or disbelief really has no real effect one way or the other.

3. Anapas is neither. He's not truly divine, he's both mortal and divine. Which means the mortal body can be killed. The divine not so much - because you can't really wipe out all belief. So, yes, you could weaken him and make it impossible for him to materialize on earth if you got rid of everyone who believed in him - but he would just go back to the ether...and 100 years later, he may return to earth again.

He's not just a creation of belief. And he began as a powerful man/beast or First who due to myth and legend, over time, was worshipped as a God - which gave him God-like powers. His followers turned him into a God. Destroying his followers just well throws out the God-like status, but there's no way you can destroy all his followers without committing genocide.

In short, it's complicated.

Re: a

[sophist.livejournal.com]

Ah, your #3 isn't in the quote, but seems plausible from my memory of the book (refreshed; ahem).

Re: a

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Yeah, number 3 was shortly after the quote.

The writers do however continue to explore the relationship between gods and myth or how humans turn human beings or magical creatures into gods via stories. That the story gives the human the godlike status. Without the stories...they'd be forgotten.

Which is a fascinating idea. Our stories give us our power.

Re: a

[sophist.livejournal.com]

Storytelling is a very powerful human universal. In my experience, people react much more to a good story than to the most well-established facts.

Re: a

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

It's amongst the first things I learned in law school litigation courses - that you needed to tell the jury a good story - and whomever presented the best story - won.

And having served as an alternate on a jury - I'd say that is true.

You can remember the story. It is heard on two levels by the heart and the head. Or three - spirit, emotion, mind. While facts are only heard by one - mind. And the mind gets its direction from the heart not the other way around. (heart pumps blood into the mind).

That's what a lot of people don't understand. They think that a well-written, stylistically and technically precise story that focuses more on fact, information, and language - less on emotional themes - should do well. But it doesn't. Because people aren't robots. We react to things emotionally. It's not logical.

That's why myth is such a powerful thing. And one person's myth is another's religions - Illona Andrews is really exploring that in depth.

Re: a

[sophist.livejournal.com]

What you say is very true. It took me a long time to learn it, too, since I tend to the Spock side of things. :)