Links

[shadowkat]

1. The AV Club lists 15 differences between the TV Series Game of Thrones and the books. For me, some made sense, others - such as the rapes - just made the tv series more violent and difficult to watch.

2. Speaking of the Unease over the rape sequences in GoT and other other similar series - apparently, I'm not alone in this : Rising Unease Over Rapes ReCurring Role in GoT.

It helps to understand that rape happens off-page in the books. It's there, but less prevalent and sort of as an after-thought. Whether that's better or worse, I don't know. But it's less in your face. Also being a book - easier to ignore.
Visuals are harder. [ETA: after reading the comments below, I think I've clarified in my head why the rapes in the books didn't bug me as much - it's because they are treated as part of WAR, and not romanticized or shown in a titillating manner. Sex isn't either. While the television series does the opposite. I'm not quite sure why.]

While television has a history of doing rape - it is a matter of degree. And yes, anyone who has watched daytime Soap Operas can attest to rape being a definite and recurring trope - BUT, it is dealt with better, often from the victim's pov and the victim tends to be a survivor and the rapist does weirdly pay for it over time, without being demonized. And, being a soap opera, it's just one of many things.
Prime Time television isn't as good with the portrayal - it's slam bang thank you mam. Soaps explore all the angles. Prime Time uses it either as a plot point to get everyone riled up or to move a character from point a to point b. Sometimes, as in the case of Scandal, GoT, and House of Cards - to make a nasty/villainous female character either weaker, more sympathetic, or understandable. Or in the case of Buffy, to move Spike's story forward and get him his soul. Or in the case of various cop shows - to rile everyone up, and it is often the strongest female character that it happens to. Or in the case of Downton Abbey, a means of focusing on the victim's husband's pain and developing his story. There's an inherent sexism and misogyny in these portrayals, which I think is a reflection of how our society handles gender and rape and it's not a positive one. Culture is a reflection - a mirror. Instead of riling at the reflection, "out out damn spot! or damn, you stupid mirror, I don't have a pimple", I think we should ask ourselves why it is reflecting that? Why do we have that pimple or how did that spot get there? And how can we change it? Instead of throwing out the mirror or throwing a blanket over it.

3. The MTA fired the president of the Long Island Rail Road this week. She was the first female president of the LIRR and served as president the longest - 7 years. LIRR President abruptly fired

I was surprised, but not at the same time. Also on the fence...the devil you know is often better than the devil you don't. But attempting to feel positive about it.

Comments

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

I think the article and a lot of the discussion about the rapes of GoT leaves out the tittytainment angle.

In the books the rapes were always part of the horror and what Martin says about rapes in war is pretty much what I always said when people said it was misogynist that there was so much rape in the books.

It is a book about the horrors of war and rapes happen every day in the wars of our world (also outside of wars, but it wars they still are routine).
The viewer is imho intended to be at least in part aroused by it. And that is the part where I find the show so much more misogynist and objectifying than the books ever were...

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Yeah. The show is getting a really creepy habit of either painting rape as something that just happens, no big deal (the Jaime/Cersei thing) OR (as in the latest episode) putting it in the skeevy old rape-and-revenge plot, with us first getting to see all the gory details of Villains raping Helpless Maidens and then, presumably, delighting in the gory details of their punishment when the Heroes ride in to save the day.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

And a lot of this was not in the books. Nor as flake_sake points out, did the books focus on the titillation angle - we did not have the Theon sex scenes, or the Littlefinger and his whores, at least not to that degree, or the Joffrey sadistic sex play to the degree it was shown. Sure - part of it is HBO/Showtime premium cable. But I've seen it in other tv shows too - that titillation angle.

The Jamie/Cersei scene was almost comical in how it was directed. And unnecessary. We didn't need it. And the Dany/Drago rape was...titillating, which was beyond creepy and made it difficult to invest in that romance.
Neither rape happened in the books. Both scenes were written very differently.

I keep thinking - why? Why did they do that?

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Yep and this is really a show thing. In the books it was mainly one of the many horrors of war, but Martin with the female main characters Martin was rather careful to use it.
The threat of rape which hangs over Dany, Brienne at some point and over Sansa is never treated as something offhanded. In the end Cersei is the only POV character who has rape (by Robert not by Jamie) in her history.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

I agree with this. As I put it in a comment at Tor, the problem with the show is that we all have the sneaking suspicion that the rapes are there not to horrify us, but to titillate us.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I would agree. For me - the rapes in the books felt more like part of War and the unending violence and horror of it. Or a direct result of war and the fight for power - not romanticized and not exploitive. They were there. (My difficulty with the books had more to do with the writing style and well, not fan of War books...which hello, the books are about War.)

The tv series -- feels almost like it is glorifying sexual violence. We are in the male gaze. Unfortunately this is not solely relegated to GoT, it's prevalent in Television. Also it's not just one cable network or channel. Or one writer.

You can go back to S2...with Joffrey and his sadistic sex play, or as far back as S1 with Theon and his use of women as objects, or Drago and his rape of Dany (none of which had happened in the books). Nor had the scenes with LittleFinger and his whores.

It would be one thing if it was an isolated occurrence, but it has become repetitive and prevalent. I'm starting to question the writing choices. Why is this happening? Why are they making these choices? Are they even aware of it? GRRM clearly was writing a novel similar in tone to Suzanne Collins Hunger Games - depicting the horrific effects of WAR and a fight over power on the human being, specifically children (the protagonists - Bran, Dany, Jon, Sansa are all 7-14 years of age in the books). But I'm not sure what the television writers are doing.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

The tv series -- feels almost like it is glorifying sexual violence.

I agree. And like you wrote, they added so many sexually violent scenes that were not in the books. While cutting out those that where not exploitative (say Tyrion with Shae) and also the sexual violence that was so horrible that no one could possibly be titillated by it (say the gang rape of Lollys).

It really makes the show pretty skeevy.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I hate to say this - but its not just Game of Thrones, True Blood sort of did the same thing - although satirically. In both cases the violence in the books is amplified on television. You'd think they would modify it, not amplify it.
It seems to be a trend with cable shows in the US, lets show graphic violence as entertainment, because we can.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Good point, and may be why it didn't bother me that much in the books. Weirdly I barely noticed the rape in the books - sort of fell under the broad category of horrible war acts. I'm on the fence as to whether my lack of noticing the rapes in the books was a good thing. I notice it more in romance novels or when it is used as titillation. Less when it is shown as a violent act of war or just plain power/violence. At any rate - I don't remember much rape in the books - so clearly didn't bother me.

In the tv series - there is a sort of titillation factor or undercurrent that has begun to grate on my nerves. Rapes are shown from a male perspective - not the female perspective. The male gaze is overwhelming in this show. It's making it hard for me to continue watching it.

The bits I enjoy in the tv show, I've found are the bits that that gaze is not prevalent. The others..I'm finding I want to fast-forward through, well that and anything involving Theon.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

I think in the books they were mainly part of the violence. I did notice them, but they never looked attractive in the books. On the show they use them as entertainment, which is really ugly.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I'd say it was a difference in mediums, but I've read books (and ahem fanfic) that have...glorified violence, sexual and otherwise in a similar way.

Martin's books dealt with violence in a realistic manner. Reminded me more of maybe The Wire or Homicide Life on the Streets. It wasn't violence as entertainment, but as a depiction of society at its worst.

And it's not just sexual violence, the torture scenes in the show are excessive.