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shadowkatHee...hence the reason that sometimes I'm very happy that I'm no longer fannish about anything or heavily involved in a fandom, two links say it all:
1. Spoiler
(Courtesy of rarhriah (whose name I can never remember how to spell).)
2. Every Argument About Buffy on the Internet From 1998 Until Now
Not to be one to quibble? But I think they missed quite a few of the more interesting ones. (Even though I didn't list everyone they mentioned above.) So, uh, really NOT "EVERY" argument, but quite a few...so not a bad effort. (Is it just me or is the internet, specifically pop culture bloggers prone to hyperbole? )
Hmm...anyone want to try and cobble together every single debate? The ATPO Board Archives are still around for exploration - at least I think they are. You could start there...and most likely get lost in various lengthy somewhat scholarly debates over whether Joseph Campbell is a reliable resource or a racist and sexist mythologist over-used and glamorized by Hollywood, and what exactly a Bodivista is and if Buffy or Spike's journey best exemplified Buddhism, there was also one on the metaphysical meaning of Spike's chip and whether it was the reason Spike yearned for a soul? (I rather liked it when a bonafide Tibetan Monk came out of the woodwork and told a Navy Officer's Wife that Spike was the Bodhvista not Angel, and exactly why. Although to this day, I'm not positive he was actually a Tibetan Monk (nor do I have a clue what I Bodhivsta is or how to spell it for that matter). Oh and there was a lengthy debate on genetics and biology, explaining why women pick some men over others and vice versa...can't quite remember what it had to do with Buffy though. Also one on whether women could physically become firemen.)
Here's just a few that they missed:
1.) The Great Soul Debate
Spike can't be redeemed without a soul, where would that leave Angel??
(Most likely cursed?)
Soul hardly means good, look at Warren, Angel, Wes, Faith, and Willow for that matter.
Spike didn't go to get his soul, he went to get his chip removed! The soul was a surprise. (Even though the writers stated otherwise in numerous interviews...and Whedon wrote a long poem to explain it...in Beneath You).
He was better without a soul! Giving Spike a Soul ruined the entire series!
Is Spike can get a soul, why can't Angel?
What is a soul anyhow? A conscience?
I don't believe in souls - so I'm going by the show, you can't be good without one on the show!
How does that explain Warren?
I didn't say you couldn't be evil with soul, just that you can't choose to be good without one according to the show!
Except Spike is good without a soul.
That's just so he can get in Buffy's pants.
2.) Can Spike be Redeemed? (with or without a soul)
Not after he attempted to rape Buffy, he can't.
Of course, he was redeemed in Chosen.
3.) The AR Scene Debates
4.) When Spike Removes his Chip will he be Good or Evil?
[This one turned out to be a huge mislead and so all the metaphysical arguments got dropped.]
Can someone be conditioned to be good?
Is the chip an artificial soul?
5.) Which Season is Best or Worst Debate?
6.) The Show should have ended with The Gift, no it should have ended with Graduation Day, no Restless.
7. Spike Shouldn't Have Been Brought Over to Angel Debate, He should have Died in Chosen.
8. Was Marti or Joss Responsible for Season 6?
(If you liked the season, it was Joss, if you hated it, it was Marti. Even though Joss went online numerous times stating he was responsible.)
9. What the heck was going on in Restless anyway?
* Best episode ever!
* Foreshadowed the last three seasons!
* What was the cheesman all about? Oh he meant nothing! No, he was their guide! No that was the First Slayer!
Which ones can you come up with that haven't been mentioned? I swear I have argued this series to death.
It was fun being in a fandom, but I can't say I miss the arguments.
3. As an aside? There's a huge sale of Terry Prachett's Discworld series on Google Play and Amazon, the books are going for 1.99 and 99 cents.
1. Spoiler
(Courtesy of rarhriah (whose name I can never remember how to spell).)
2. Every Argument About Buffy on the Internet From 1998 Until Now
Everyone Was Too Hard On Dawn For Being A Regular Human Being
Don’t You Dare Try To Retroactively Justify Dawn
Season Six Felt Like Watching My Friends Get Murdered In Slow Motion Right In Front Of Me
It Was Worth It For Once More, With Feeling, Though
No, It Wasn’t
Doublemeat Palace Cancels Out Once More, With Feeling
Doublemeat Palace Cancels Out My Childhood
Xander Is The Only Character Who Retains Their Humanity On The Entire Show
Xander Is A Greater Monster Than Angelus And Invented “Nice Guy” Syndrome
Oz vs. Tara
Oz Was Boring; Tara Was Too Good For This Sinful Earth
Tara Was Boring; Oz Was The Greatest Love Interest In Television History; Remember That Animal Crackers Monologue
What About Kenned–
SHUT UP ABOUT KENNEDY
Not to be one to quibble? But I think they missed quite a few of the more interesting ones. (Even though I didn't list everyone they mentioned above.) So, uh, really NOT "EVERY" argument, but quite a few...so not a bad effort. (Is it just me or is the internet, specifically pop culture bloggers prone to hyperbole? )
Hmm...anyone want to try and cobble together every single debate? The ATPO Board Archives are still around for exploration - at least I think they are. You could start there...and most likely get lost in various lengthy somewhat scholarly debates over whether Joseph Campbell is a reliable resource or a racist and sexist mythologist over-used and glamorized by Hollywood, and what exactly a Bodivista is and if Buffy or Spike's journey best exemplified Buddhism, there was also one on the metaphysical meaning of Spike's chip and whether it was the reason Spike yearned for a soul? (I rather liked it when a bonafide Tibetan Monk came out of the woodwork and told a Navy Officer's Wife that Spike was the Bodhvista not Angel, and exactly why. Although to this day, I'm not positive he was actually a Tibetan Monk (nor do I have a clue what I Bodhivsta is or how to spell it for that matter). Oh and there was a lengthy debate on genetics and biology, explaining why women pick some men over others and vice versa...can't quite remember what it had to do with Buffy though. Also one on whether women could physically become firemen.)
Here's just a few that they missed:
1.) The Great Soul Debate
Spike can't be redeemed without a soul, where would that leave Angel??
(Most likely cursed?)
Soul hardly means good, look at Warren, Angel, Wes, Faith, and Willow for that matter.
Spike didn't go to get his soul, he went to get his chip removed! The soul was a surprise. (Even though the writers stated otherwise in numerous interviews...and Whedon wrote a long poem to explain it...in Beneath You).
He was better without a soul! Giving Spike a Soul ruined the entire series!
Is Spike can get a soul, why can't Angel?
What is a soul anyhow? A conscience?
I don't believe in souls - so I'm going by the show, you can't be good without one on the show!
How does that explain Warren?
I didn't say you couldn't be evil with soul, just that you can't choose to be good without one according to the show!
Except Spike is good without a soul.
That's just so he can get in Buffy's pants.
2.) Can Spike be Redeemed? (with or without a soul)
Not after he attempted to rape Buffy, he can't.
Of course, he was redeemed in Chosen.
3.) The AR Scene Debates
4.) When Spike Removes his Chip will he be Good or Evil?
[This one turned out to be a huge mislead and so all the metaphysical arguments got dropped.]
Can someone be conditioned to be good?
Is the chip an artificial soul?
5.) Which Season is Best or Worst Debate?
6.) The Show should have ended with The Gift, no it should have ended with Graduation Day, no Restless.
7. Spike Shouldn't Have Been Brought Over to Angel Debate, He should have Died in Chosen.
8. Was Marti or Joss Responsible for Season 6?
(If you liked the season, it was Joss, if you hated it, it was Marti. Even though Joss went online numerous times stating he was responsible.)
9. What the heck was going on in Restless anyway?
* Best episode ever!
* Foreshadowed the last three seasons!
* What was the cheesman all about? Oh he meant nothing! No, he was their guide! No that was the First Slayer!
Which ones can you come up with that haven't been mentioned? I swear I have argued this series to death.
It was fun being in a fandom, but I can't say I miss the arguments.
3. As an aside? There's a huge sale of Terry Prachett's Discworld series on Google Play and Amazon, the books are going for 1.99 and 99 cents.
no subject
Date: 2015-03-26 05:15 am (UTC)(I do not think either Angel or Spike qualifies. And I think Spike would find Nirvana dead boring.)
no subject
Date: 2015-03-26 09:50 pm (UTC)I tried to find the discussion in the ATPO archives...but alas, it's impossible to find anything in those archives.
no subject
Date: 2015-03-26 10:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-03-26 10:31 pm (UTC)Although that thread is evidence of just how crazy we got at times.
no subject
Date: 2015-03-26 10:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-03-26 11:37 pm (UTC)I mean I can see why I might have considering....
no subject
Date: 2015-03-26 11:40 pm (UTC)