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Jun. 7th, 2015 10:15 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkat1. Watching the Tony's, which are boring me. Come back, Neil Patrick Harris, come back!
Also, Fun Home reminds me a lot of Next to Normal, while American in Paris reminds me of Singing in the Rain and On the Town. Something Rotten seems sort of different...But nothing is really grabbing me. Which is a good thing -- since I can't afford to go to the plays being honored at the Tony's.
2. They are adapting Neil Gaiman's Sandman for film. Joseph Gordon-Levit is doing it. Gaiman's one requirement was that there is no punching. Sandman does not punch people.
3. Five things that did not work in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, or made you scratch your head or fanwank the hell out of them. This occurred to me over the weekend...via circumstances that are better left unsaid.
* The Buffy Cookie Dough Speech. This is the speech in the beginning of Chosen that the writer inserted to, as he explained in the commentary, to justify the heroine's jump from one vampire lover to another. Except that's not the speech. The speech is - how Buffy can't commit to a meaningful relationship with a vampire, cursed with a soul, who heads an evil law firm, and has just brought her a mystical amulet from the law firm, because...she's unbaked cookie dough and unready for a deep relationship with anyone. And you know, maybe one day, she'll be mature enough to commit to a guy who can lose his soul at any moment and slaughter all her friends or will manipulate them to his own ends, without necessarily losing his soul.
* The Scythe -- this is the mystical weapon that Buffy is told to hunt down in the last five episodes and drops into the story out of the blue. It is in a rock. And only the slayer, the chosen one, can remove it from the rock a la King Arthur. The weapon is an ax and a stake - sort of double duty vampire killing - because a stake just isn't that useful against the old deformed vamps. The only ones who can explain the Scythe are The Guardians...who appear out of nowhere in a tomb in the Cemetery. Which apparently is so huge that Buffy never bumped into them until now. But now that she has, coincidentally so does the villain, Spike and Angel. As if suddenly there's a huge target over it.
* Apparently there's an ancient box revealing the orgins of the Slayer - which only Nikki Wood's Watcher had, and was passed down to her son, Robin. Not any of the new slayers or their watchers. And the legend isn't known by anyone but Nikki's Watcher and the magical box.
*The Demon Eggs in AYW: Spike, who is unable to remove his chip or fend for himself and is constantly making deals with Buffy and her gang for money, not to mention helping them, and now in debt to a land shark, out of the blue is a major arms dealer -- called the Doctor. And is hiding nasty monster eggs in his crypt, even though Buffy and all her friends visit him all the time and without knocking. Somehow they never notice the eggs. Or that he is the Doctor. Yet, Riley and his wife manage to track the monsters to Spike's lair within 24 hours of their arrival in Sunnydale.
* The AR Scene in Seeing Red: 1)Buffy's mysterious back injury in Seeing Red - after fighting off Hyena!Xander, being staked by a vamp, fighting Spike when he wanted to kill her and getting the better of him, fighting and beating Angelus, fighting Glory, and not to mention falling from various heights - Buffy injures her back when she falls against a headstone. As if she'd never had this happen before? Keep in mind this woman was thrust up against the wall of a building that fell around her, while having sex.
2) Spike enters Buffy's bathroom. Not her bedroom. Or any other place, but the "bathroom" which to date we've never seen. 3) Buffy is depicted as weak and not super-strong in most of the scene, then suddenly is...
And if that one didn't work for you...
* In S7 Spike is tortured with drowning, can't see in the dark, and has a reflection. While Angel is doing quite well six feet under, can see in the dark, and doesn't have reflection. Did Spike become somewhat human when he got his soul?
[Since this is being pimped, I'm going to shamelessly tout my book "Doing Time on Planet Earth", it's a work of fiction - which you can go buy HERE.]
Also, Fun Home reminds me a lot of Next to Normal, while American in Paris reminds me of Singing in the Rain and On the Town. Something Rotten seems sort of different...But nothing is really grabbing me. Which is a good thing -- since I can't afford to go to the plays being honored at the Tony's.
2. They are adapting Neil Gaiman's Sandman for film. Joseph Gordon-Levit is doing it. Gaiman's one requirement was that there is no punching. Sandman does not punch people.
3. Five things that did not work in Buffy the Vampire Slayer, or made you scratch your head or fanwank the hell out of them. This occurred to me over the weekend...via circumstances that are better left unsaid.
* The Buffy Cookie Dough Speech. This is the speech in the beginning of Chosen that the writer inserted to, as he explained in the commentary, to justify the heroine's jump from one vampire lover to another. Except that's not the speech. The speech is - how Buffy can't commit to a meaningful relationship with a vampire, cursed with a soul, who heads an evil law firm, and has just brought her a mystical amulet from the law firm, because...she's unbaked cookie dough and unready for a deep relationship with anyone. And you know, maybe one day, she'll be mature enough to commit to a guy who can lose his soul at any moment and slaughter all her friends or will manipulate them to his own ends, without necessarily losing his soul.
* The Scythe -- this is the mystical weapon that Buffy is told to hunt down in the last five episodes and drops into the story out of the blue. It is in a rock. And only the slayer, the chosen one, can remove it from the rock a la King Arthur. The weapon is an ax and a stake - sort of double duty vampire killing - because a stake just isn't that useful against the old deformed vamps. The only ones who can explain the Scythe are The Guardians...who appear out of nowhere in a tomb in the Cemetery. Which apparently is so huge that Buffy never bumped into them until now. But now that she has, coincidentally so does the villain, Spike and Angel. As if suddenly there's a huge target over it.
* Apparently there's an ancient box revealing the orgins of the Slayer - which only Nikki Wood's Watcher had, and was passed down to her son, Robin. Not any of the new slayers or their watchers. And the legend isn't known by anyone but Nikki's Watcher and the magical box.
*The Demon Eggs in AYW: Spike, who is unable to remove his chip or fend for himself and is constantly making deals with Buffy and her gang for money, not to mention helping them, and now in debt to a land shark, out of the blue is a major arms dealer -- called the Doctor. And is hiding nasty monster eggs in his crypt, even though Buffy and all her friends visit him all the time and without knocking. Somehow they never notice the eggs. Or that he is the Doctor. Yet, Riley and his wife manage to track the monsters to Spike's lair within 24 hours of their arrival in Sunnydale.
* The AR Scene in Seeing Red: 1)Buffy's mysterious back injury in Seeing Red - after fighting off Hyena!Xander, being staked by a vamp, fighting Spike when he wanted to kill her and getting the better of him, fighting and beating Angelus, fighting Glory, and not to mention falling from various heights - Buffy injures her back when she falls against a headstone. As if she'd never had this happen before? Keep in mind this woman was thrust up against the wall of a building that fell around her, while having sex.
2) Spike enters Buffy's bathroom. Not her bedroom. Or any other place, but the "bathroom" which to date we've never seen. 3) Buffy is depicted as weak and not super-strong in most of the scene, then suddenly is...
And if that one didn't work for you...
* In S7 Spike is tortured with drowning, can't see in the dark, and has a reflection. While Angel is doing quite well six feet under, can see in the dark, and doesn't have reflection. Did Spike become somewhat human when he got his soul?
[Since this is being pimped, I'm going to shamelessly tout my book "Doing Time on Planet Earth", it's a work of fiction - which you can go buy HERE.]
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no subject
Date: 2015-06-08 04:09 am (UTC)The Scythe is just Olaf's Hammer all over again. We need a super powerful weapon? Well, let's pull one out of thin air with a lame excuse for an explanation! The box is just a variation of the same theme.
Most everything in As You Were is designed to embarrass Buffy- 'There's a cow on my hat' (as if nobody noticed it); Sam manages to do it all without being a slayer; Spike is hiding a ridiculous number of (nearly ridiculous) secrets right under Buffy's nose; Reilly managed to find a healthy relationship and Buffy couldn't, and so forth. It's just a sledgehammer way of emphasizing that Buffy has been distracted.
I kind of forgive the bathroom scene. The whole thing is based on Spike's belief that he can't actually hurt Buffy. And the whole point is that everyone including the audience must discover that , yes, he can. As when I saw it for the first time, I'm willing to say she could be hurting this time, no matter what we've seen her go through before. Heck, when I was young I jumped off low buildings and out of sizable trees for fun and never got hurt doing it. That doesn't mean I never got hurt in any situation. I'm willing to believe if she fell oddly on the tombstone, she could get hurt once out of a hundred times, and that she would be very sore later. Helpless... I don't know... But for the sake of the story I'd let that go. The whole scene was probably a mistake since either she suddenly had to recover enough to fight Spike off, or they'd have to go with a full blown rape scene.
no subject
Date: 2015-06-08 09:54 pm (UTC)1) It was introduced in an earlier episode, so available and they didn't have to find it.
2) It didn't save the day or wasn't the magical device to end all.
The Scythe (unless you were reading the Fray comic books and considered them canon to the television series) came out of nowhere. And was allegedly the magical device to end all devices. Which no one had ever mentioned until the last four episodes of S7. Olaf's Hammar in contrast, was well, just another item on a laundry list in The Gift - and a bit of joke, which by the way Whedon uses again in The Avenger's with Thor's hammer. It's actually the same joke.
I'm less forgiving of AYW, although I do see your point - and that is why the writer's did it. But, it doesn't work from a plot standpoint or in relation to Spike. Riley, yes. I had no problem with how Riley or Sam were presented, although the acting was incredibly wooden (I blame the director for that). But I just can't see Spike becoming an international arms dealer while he's busy saving the world, and mooning after Buffy and cheating at kitten poker etc. Also, wouldn't someone have noticed? It was a bit too absurd...they should have built it up better than they did. You could tell the writers came up with that plot-line as they were writing that episode. But didn't bother to lay the groundwork. (Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that I can't see Spike as an international arms dealer or doing any of that. But not based on what was shown to us. It was sloppy.)
At any rate, I agree with your assessment of Whedon...he said himself that he was burned out on Buffy. And I think that was true. Also, upset over the cancellation of Firefly. So...he got sloppy. Although most of his stuff post Buffy has felt sloppy to me, so maybe that's just the writer, without a really good writing partner/ editor?
no subject
Date: 2015-06-08 10:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-06-08 11:07 pm (UTC)I think the scene works for you -- if you buy the writer's set-up, that's she's seriously hurt, and can't easily fight him off and trusts he'll back off.
But if you don't buy the set-up? Then you are thrown out of the scene and jarred by it.
I do find the scene fascinating - in that Spike backs off. As a soulless vampire, he shouldn't be backing off. Especially now that he knows she's been weakened and has no weapon. He even asks himself that question. So, from a Spike perspective - it's an interesting scene. From a Buffy perspective...it's rather jarring, and doesn't quite work - because I can't quite buy the set-up...it doesn't fit the characters reactions and actions up to this point.
no subject
Date: 2015-06-08 11:15 pm (UTC)Clarification
Date: 2015-06-13 01:04 pm (UTC)Didn't say that.
What I meant -- was that his actions were fascinating because they went against his nature as a soulless vampire. And also in regards to most human rapists. Warren, as shown with Katrina would have raped Buffy. So too would have Hyena!Xander (who granted isn't exactly human or in his right mind) and as would Angelus. And S2-S4 Spike? Definitely.
But Spike, who had no soul, backed off. And it's not like he hadn't raped women before, he had. But he backs off.
I'm not saying that the character wouldn't do that. I'm saying that from a metaphorical and mythological standpoint -- it's interesting that he didn't do it.
Remember his speech afterwards? Where he states to Clem that he's surprised he didn't do it?
The fact that he backs off - is evidence in my opinion that he didn't intend to rape her or hurt her. If he had, then he wouldn't have backed off. (Again as demonstrated in previous episodes - Out of My Mind, School Hard, Harsh Light of Day...etc.)
That's what I found interesting.
My difficulty with the episode was not Spike's characterization (which I actually found interesting), or Buffy's necessarily. My difficulty was in how the episode was filmed, and how they decided to weaken Buffy. I had trouble with the direction and filming of various scenes.
Hope this clarifies it.
ETA: What a lot a fans seem to be overlooking here -- is what the writer's did. They took a soulless vampire and had him decide not to kill or rape the slayer. The mythology on both Angel and Buffy states continuously that this is not possible.
And they did it in a clever fashion -- in that it initially appears that he did attack her, and she kicked him off - end of story. But what a lot of viewers seem to overlook -- is hello, it's in an enclosed space, she's injured, has no weapons, and he's not in vamp face or using his full powers. All he has to do is go full vamp face and she's dead. If he were truly as evil as the writers make out - she would be. He'd have killed her. Or raped her.
Then went to get his chip out. But he does the opposite. What does that say about Angel or the vampire mythology that writer's set up? It changes the universe of the series.
Re: Clarification
Date: 2015-06-13 02:53 pm (UTC)But, yes, it does change the mythology - big time. But consistency was never the hallmark of the show anyway. Everybody is pretty hung up on souls, but that's mainly due to Angel/Angelus being so different with and without his. Spike has been Spike right from the get-go. I think one of frustrating things about that universe is that it changes as the needs of the story change. Makes it easy to write AU fic because you can almost always point to a place where this or that did or could have happened, but it also makes it hard to be dogmatic about what is and isn't part of the mythology or backstory of that world.
And killing Buffy was never his intent there - neither, IMHO, was raping her. In his drunken mind, she is just doing her usual "no, no... oh do it again!" thing and he is just being persistent because he is so sure that the physical act will change her mind about their relationship. The difference is, Buffy means it this time (for several reasons, including her injury) and in his need to show her she really does love him, he uses more force than he would have gotten away with if she hadn't been hurt both physically and emotionally.
I do wish they had found some other way to make Spike go get his soul. But I guess they felt they needed something so horrible it would drive him to it. So they made him do something typically evil, but he did it in his own way and it failed, so I guess it worked.
no subject
Date: 2015-06-12 05:48 pm (UTC)THIS.
As a Buffy fan I thought and think it was unfortunate they added the back injury (like the entire catalog of things to humiliate Buffy with in AYW), but we've seen her shocked or startled enough to freeze up even momentarily before, going all the way back to WTTH, Ted (the "resurrected" Ted appears in her bedroom), Spiral, and as recently as Smashed. The shock of the situation all by itself would have been enough so it's unfortunate they added that element.
no subject
Date: 2015-06-13 01:34 pm (UTC)Although, in reality, she wouldn't to be able to thrust him off, and if he had intended to rape her - he wouldn't have stopped. So what they were trying to do doesn't quite work. The filming of that scene, everything about it -- indicates they were trying to well have their cake and eat it too. I don't think it worked quite the way they wanted it to -- or at least not for everyone. But that's the nature of art -- some people will get what you are aiming at, some people will woefully not.
For me? It worked and it didn't work at the same time. If I were to change anything about that scene...I don't know any more. Maybe how it was shot? (shrugs)