Riverdale

[shadowkat]

Too many tv shows, plus Netflix and Amazon, not enough time...

Anyhow, watched the premiere of Riverdale. What is Riverdale about, well...it's


Twin Peaks

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Meets..

Archie Comics and Josie and the Pussycats (which did a bunch of cartoons in the 1960s, that I watched as a kid in the 1970s, and have a vague memory of..., the comics, I never read.)

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Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

I kid you now, it literally is Twin Peaks meets Archie Comics. We have all the kids from Archie Comics transposed into Twin Peaks.

So far, sort of entertaining. Held my attention. Few things do these days. Although Archie's makeup is distracting me. The makeup artist is overdoing the furrowed brow and heavy eyebrows. Also, I can tell they died the actors hair bright red. Other than that, I am entertained, particularly by a 50 something Luke Perry and Madchen Amick.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Have to say, Riverdale improves on the 1960 era Archie cartoons. And the mash up sort of works. Not perfect, by a long shot, a bit too quippy in places, and I'm not sure certain things quite work.
But it does for the most part avoid cliche, and the Betty/Archie/Veronica love triangle is sort of killed before it starts. Archie's too busy swooning over and banging his music teacher to care.
Although Veronica obviously intrigues him.

The Twin Peaks twist on each character is rather intriguing. Although, I more or less figured out the plot points before they happened, it did have a few nice surprises here and there. Betty's mother, who is obsessed with perfection and somewhat bullying. And Veronica's poor little rich girl, who Dad is facing embezzlement charges. While Jughead narrates the affair, typing away on a computer at Pops. Meanwhile Josie and Pussycats are an African-American Power Trio Band, with a statement, also the daughter of the mayor. Reggie is a bit of an asshole football player, and Moose - in the closet, homosexual, involved with the Sheriff's son, whose Betty's best bud. Meanwhile there's a dead body in the river, this round a boy's -- a nice change of pace that. And ...it appears, his sultry twin sister did it. OR did she? That's the kids, the parents have their own...issues.


There's a bit of Beverly Hills 90210 and the O/C thrown in there for good measure. But mostly it's just Twin Peaks meets Archie Comics.

Comments

[cactuswatcher]

I heard a few years ago that the Archie comics had gone serious. I can't imagine why they didn't come up with different characters for the same thing. The TV series is just an add on to that.

I remember Josie and the Pussycats as just about the most annoying cartoon on Saturday morning when I was home from college. There must have been something on right after it that I wanted to watch, because I kept seeing bits of it. For the right audience I'm sure it was fine. It was not much worse than The Monkees from when I was in high school. But I didn't like that either. ;o)

All we need now is a gritty war drama starring Beetle Bailey, Killer, Sgt. Snorkel, General Halftrack and, of course, the true hero, Otto the dog.

[shadowkat]

Sorry you hated the Monkeys and Josie. But I think you weren't the right audience for it -- they weren't targeted at college kids.

I loved both, but I also was watching them at the age of 6 or was it 7 in the daytime, in the mid-70s. Along with the Jackson 5 (they had a carton too), Scooby Doo, Jabbar Jaw, etc...they were alike by the way, and all clearly rip-offs of the Beatles Lonely Hearts Club Band vids. The Monkeys, my Dad called a poor man's Beatles. And that was also a rip-off of the Beatles music videos.

All were targeted at kids. Now, I can't watch them, but at the age of 7 or was it 8? I loved them. Had a huge crush on Davy Jones when I was seven years of age.

The show was more entertaining than Timeless has been lately, and I rather liked the twists, but mileage it varies. ;-) And honestly, there are so many frigging television shows on at the moment, that it's a waste of time worrying over the one's you don't like. Not with the 45th reigning terror in the White House. ;-)

[yourlibrarian]

Have to agree with you about Archie's hair and makeup being distracting. I am very in favor of diverse casting but if you're going to insist on Archie being a redhead, which makes it highly likely he's of Celtic descent, then picking someone of a different ethnicity for the role is not a great choice. I don't care if they raceswap the entire cast, as long as they let the actors look like themselves. I'm guessing they didn't find a lot of hunky redheads out there of the right age but really, maybe one's definition of hunk could be broader or he simply didn't need to be written that way at all.

I found the second episode less interesting than the pilot, too much soap stuff in it, not enough mystery. Plus I'm really peeved at how they're writing the affair with Miss Grundy. Given he's a sophomore, she's not only never going to work as an educator again (which, given she's a music teacher, really reduces her options) but she'll likely end up on a sexual offenders list even if she doesn't face criminal charges, which is also going to do her no favors in employment nor in housing. The idea that her being fired from this particular job (which is bad enough) is the sticking point is ludicrous.

[shadowkat]

Agreed, well sort of,

I am struggling with the Mrs. Grundy/Archie plot thread. It threw me out of the story twice -- I don't understand why everyone including Archie feels he has to tell people about "over-hearing" the gun-shot. First, there's no way of knowing it was the one that killed Jason.
Two, no way of knowing it was a gunshot. Third, so what if he heard a gunshot...it could have been a hunter or any number of things. They didn't see the crime. The other problem I'm having with it -- is they've cast a guy in his twenties to play Archie, and Mrs. Grundy doesn't look that much older than him.

She does mention that not only could she get fired, she could go to jail. (I'm not so sure about the latter, since he is 17 and in some states that's legal not statutory rape.) Yeah, you have the teacher/student bit...but that's not necessarily illegal. And it is consensual. So, no, she wouldn't be accused of being a sexual offender per se. The law is more complicated in this regard than people realize, and it varies per state. I remember discussing it with a group of fanlawyers in regards to Buffy/Angel in S2 Buffy, about whether it was statutory rape under California Law or not. So that sort of bugged me in a way it didn't bug you, in that, I didn't consider it that big a deal.

I like soap opera, so the soapy bits don't bug me. But there are a few plot bits that are nagging.

[yourlibrarian]

That's a good point regarding what state it's set in, though I'm gathering it's in upstate NY given Veronica's backstory. I didn't realize his age had been established but it seems old to me for a sophomore. Then again, I went to college at 16 so all through high school my teachers seemed much older than me, even though looking back some of them were quite young and 2 were just out of college themselves when they started teaching.

I agree about the gun shot. I think the key issue is establishing time of death but as you say, there are various reasons a gun might have been fired. And given the way the last episode ended it seems likely that the irrelevancy of what they heard will be made clear.

Also, if Grundy is frantic about Archie turning up at her house, practically kissing in her music room so that Jughead can see them seems rather careless.

[shadowkat]

You may be right, it might be upstate NY. A co-worker thought "Riverdale" stood for a NY town. It has that same woodsy North Eastern feel that Stranger Things had...which also looked like upstate NY, Mass, Vermount, Conneticut, etc. A lot of TV shows seem to take place in upstate NY or Conneticut.

I think NY is more lax on the law than California is. Although I can't remember. There was a huge scandal a while back with a teacher and a teenage boy, but the boy was like 14 or 15, not 17. 17 year old boys and 17 year old girls, can come across much older. And technically speaking are adults, they've passed puberty. And a lot of kids graduate high school at 17. Which...makes him being a sophmore seem rather odd. I graduated high school at 18. I was a spring birthday. The kids who graduated at 17 were fall birthdays. But if he's 17, wouldn't he be a junior at least? I remember the age, because Betty made a point of it -- they had both turned 17 and shouldn't they get together? (I'm not sure why she thought 17 was the magical age for becoming a couple...which was why it stuck out. Because it was another point in the episode, in which I was thrown out of the story. Wait, you think you can become a couple at 17? Wait, are you sophmores or juniors? I'm confused.)

My mother told me a story about how one of her classmates married her high school English teacher right after she graduated. And, when I was in school, some of our teachers were in the early twenties, right out of college, so just about two or three years older if that. (In the series Buffy, the actors who played Willow, Xander, Cordelia and Jonathan were all in their early and mid-twenties, while Gellar was 17. So, that may give you an idea. Carpenter was about five to six years older than Gellar. She'd graduated from college and been a Lakers Cheerleader.)

And I'm guessing Grundy is probably in her twenties? Hard to tell.

Must been hard to go to college at 16, and go through high school at 12-15....my cousin ended up doing the same thing, and it did not go well. Of course he was also bi-polar, so... I found high school hellish enough graduating from it at 18. I think I was 18. I was a spring birthday. Can't remember.

Also, if Grundy is frantic about Archie turning up at her house, practically kissing in her music room so that Jughead can see them seems rather careless.

I agree. Also contrived. But I knew they were going to do that, when she said to meet her at 7 AM for music lessons.
She obviously has the hots for him -- I can see why, he's hot. But you'd think she'd be a bit more careful about it, particularly since it is a small town.

[yourlibrarian]

The whole 17 thing also rather contradicts Archie's story to Veronica about Betty telling him to ask her to marry him again once they're grown up. Unless she figured they should date a little first, who knows. Like you said about the music room, contrived.

Actually Sarah was 19 but younger, yes, especially compared to Charisma.

No, my age didn't really make any difference -- except it meant I got out of school sooner ;) I pretty much finished growing at 12 so the real difference came more in 3rd and 4th grades not later. I think it would be harder for boys because their growth spurts tend to come later and make more of a difference for things like sports activities. (One area where I guess Archie's changes do make more sense since the sophomore year generally is key to that -- plus the whole thing about JV vs varsity teams)

[shadowkat]

Well, just using my own brother as an example - he was shorter than me, when I graduated from high school. We're three years apart. He actually graduated at half year, or 16. Spring birthday. No fast tracking.

So at 16, he was about 5'8. At 18 - he was 6'5. I was 6 foot at 13. 5'8 in the 5th grade. So...think about that for a minute. I towered over everyone from the age of 8 to well...now. My mother remembers teachers telling me that I was on the wrong recess field and should be with the older kids. Did work well in regards to getting into clubs though in college. I looked like I was 21. When everyone else looked like they were 16. I remember people meeting him and thinking, whoa.

So yeah, it makes a big difference. Like it or not we are a shallow species, who cares more about what is on the outside than the inside -- so if someone stands out physically they get ruthlessly teased. If they don't...not so much. I have a friend who had the same problem, she was 6 foot at the age of 12. No one else was.

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The whole 17 thing also rather contradicts Archie's story to Veronica about Betty telling him to ask her to marry him again once they're grown up. Unless she figured they should date a little first, who knows. Like you said about the music room, contrived.

I think the writers want their cake and eat it too -- it's creepy if he is younger than 17 and having an affair with the teacher. But at the same time, they want to go with the whole high school bit...

It's a flaw. They should just let them be seniors, and on the cusp of graduating, and get out of the high school scene as fast as possible.


{I need to start using reading glasses when I type these posts...or find a way to increase the font size.)