Beyond the Wall - GOT S7 Ep. 6

[shadowkat]

OMG!

That was...incredible.



!. So, I admittedly thought of it the moment the dragons showed up, but still...the first zombie dragon??? They are so not going to win this.

2. Danerys/Snow has become my new ship.

Although I spent most of the episode worrying about Redhaired Wildling, Dog, and Jorah. I kept saying, "no, no, don't kill the Wildling guy! No!"

Wildling: The love of my life is waiting for me, taller than you, blond hair, blue eyes...
Dog: Oh dear god, you mean, Brienne of Tarth?
Wildling: Yes! I am going to marry her, and we are going to have monsterous babies together!

Jon: I'm so sorry. If I could take it back I would. We should never have gone.
Dany: No. Don't be. I don't regret it. I had to see it. You have to see it to know. This is our fight. We will destroy them. We will do it together, you have my word.
Jon: Thank you, Dany.
Dany: No one calls me that, the last one was my brother...and I can't say he's a good one to emoulate...
Jon: Then not Dany, my Queen.
Dany: Oh..
Jon: I'd bend the knee, but..
Dany: I don't deserve it.
Jon: You do.


3. How creepy is Ayra? Still like her better than Sansa, who I'm really hoping finds herself facing a few wight walker's soon.

Sansa: What are these?
Ayra: Faces.
Sansa: What?
Ayra: so I can become whoever I want. I can even become you, wear those pretty dresses, all I'd have to do is take your face.
ME: Actually taking LF's would make more sense and be more productive.

Not sure what LF's plan was in pitting the sisters against each other?

Sansa : "You have no idea what I went through. You wouldn't have been able to survive it."

Ayra: "Oh I could probably imagine some of it."

...

Oh I loved that episode to pieces. And I hate zombies.

Comments

[anoyo]

It was soooo goooood.

I 100% anti-ship Dany/Jon, but otherwise: 100% agreed.

I was like, "NO DON'T KILL HIM WE LIKE HIM!" when what's-his-bucket got grabbed (redheaded wildling). And then he survived. GRRM, you softie. I made a post about this on my journal, but we appear to have entered the zone of characters that GRRM actually wants to keep around. First Jaime (Jamie?) lived, now what's-his-bucket? Uh-oh.

Even not shipping them, that conversation between Jon and Dany was amazing. I rewound and watched it again. I HAD TO.

SO GOOD.

[shadowkat]

Hee, above, amyvanham posts everyone ships Jon/Dany, and you've proven her wrong. ;-) (is it the fact that they are most likely related that's turning you off?)

They had to convince me. I didn't do it until the very end of the episode. Then I thought...okay, writers, I get it. It works.

GRRM, you softie. I made a post about this on my journal, but we appear to have entered the zone of characters that GRRM actually wants to keep around.

Eh...GRRM isn't involved at all at this point. He stopped being involved in the plotting in S5 -S6, when they went completely off book. He even said as much in his blog, when he said that the tv show won't spoil you for the books, since the television writers killed off characters that survived in the books, and kept characters that GRRM killed off.

Jaime is actually still alive in the books. Myrcella is still alive, Stannis is still alive, Stannis' daughter is still alive, Caitlynn is a zombie like the Mountain, the leader of Dorn is still alive...as is the leader of the Wildlings.

While there are others that are dead, among them Jon Snow and Brienne.

So you can't blame GRRM, this is all the television writers.

I think GRRM wrote himself into a corner. Well that...and it took 1500 pages for a character to get from point A to point B, and they'd still not meet up with the person they wanted to meet up with. If GRRM were writing this...we'd be following Jon on his long journey to see Dany the first go around, and all his problems along the way, and start to give up hope of him ever meeting her.

[anoyo]

Related being the issue: yeah. I live in a glass house FFS. (I mean, I ship the brothers in Killjoys, but aunt/nephew? NOPE NOPE NOPE.) But yeah, I don't ship it. I honestly ship Jorah with Dany and Jon with...Jon. Like, in my head, his sexuality is pretty much nonexistent. He loved what's-her-bucket, she died, he became a monk. Ta-dah! *hands*

LOL! Obviously I know nothing about the books. Except that they exist. So apparently the writers give more shits about the characters. That makes sense. If people surviving is them not wanting to kill off fan-favorites, though, that sort of defeats what the show was doing at the beginning that was so interesting and different. Hmm.

Well, I suppose I'm just watching for the show, and none of the canon, then. I'm cool with that. I'm pretty sure that's the only reason I enjoy Shadowhunters or enjoyed the Eragon movie. SHINY AND INTERESTING, 0% canon. (Well. Maybe 15% canon. The characters do exist, after all.)

[shadowkat]

So apparently the writers give more shits about the characters. That makes sense. If people surviving is them not wanting to kill off fan-favorites, though, that sort of defeats what the show was doing at the beginning that was so interesting and different. Hmm.

Well, that and it's a television series and only has 8 episodes left. While GRRM's books seemed to be on-going, and he'd just add more and different points of view when he killed people off. Often killing off fan favorites and letting people live...that, well, honestly.. GRRM was more interested in writing character vignettes and world-building than plot, while the television writers by necessity are more interested in plot and character arc. Will state that novels that have a lot of intricate world-building over plotting lend themselves rather well to television adaptations.

On the shipping issue? Eh, if the writers convince me of it, I'll ship it. Sometimes just platonically. Television writers on the whole tend to suck at writing romantic relationships for the most part. I rarely ship against the story though. Not quite sure why that is. On the related issue? It doesn't appear to matter on GOT, since pretty much all the Taragaryns married each other. And well, Cersei and Jamie. So I can handwave it. Plus, not sure it will ever come out...unless Gilly took that book.

[anoyo]

Yeah, fair. Like Shannara - I never did find the Shannara plots that great, but the world-building was fantastic, and so while MTV didn't necessarily do them justice, it was still interesting, since they could do so much with it.

I'm pretty sure either Gilly took the book or Bran is going to reveal it (or both!). They wouldn't be hinting at it so heavily if it wasn't ever going to be a thing.

And I know the incest thing is borderline-normal for GOT, but well. Doesn't mean I like it? Or something?

[shadowkat]

And I know the incest thing is borderline-normal for GOT, but well. Doesn't mean I like it? Or something?

Considering you have no issues shipping actual brothers in other series...I'd say it has less to do with them being related and more to do with the actors and characters, and just preferring the characters with other characters?

I have more of a problem with incestuous relationships. Jamie and Cersei still bug me a bit. But Dany and Jon I can handwave, not raised as family, and there's a little distance there. Blood Siblings raised as siblings I have problems with - too direct a relationship. Although, I may actually be shipping Jon and Dany more platonically than romantically. I think the only ship that I'm really shipping romantically at this point is Tormund/Brienne. Everyone else...I find a tad...disturbing, even Jon/Dany are for the related bit. I was trying to envision them romantically at the moment, and it is not working. But I don't really like Dany romantically with anyone or Jon for that matter.

[anoyo]

Hmmm. Maybe. I have no idea. I'm just gonna go with: I don't prefer it.

Yeah, I think I've gained some sort of ick factor maxout for Jaime and Cersei. Just. "Nope, don't care anymore." Something like that. :/

[shadowkat]

I hear you, ;-) Sometimes there is no reason. For a long long time, I didn't like Jon Snow. He grew on me. The actor still isn't my type...I like long and lean, and personally think Ian Glenn's Jorah is more attractive.

[anoyo]

Hmm. I definitely find Kit Harington attractive, but I found Robb's actor way more attractive, so there's that. (I was so pissed when he died. But also I had the shit spoiled out of that for me.)

I just like really intense eyes? Something like that. Body type is secondary.

[shadowkat]

I just like really intense eyes? Something like that. Body type is secondary.

Ditto. Feel exactly the same way. It's not really the body type so much as the eyes. Agreed on Robb, far more attractive actor. Of course, I'd read the books...and I did not like Robb in the books. (He was an idiot.)

I like the character of Jon, but the actor doesn't do anything for me....I don't really know why.

[anoyo]

...I do like the curls a lot. Jon is definitely still attractive to me. Guys with curls are generally pretty attractive to me, for sure.

Also: LOL, poor Robb. I always have to remind myself to put that into context, and that Robb is a 16-year-old asked to be a general / king. Um. Guys? Kid's balls've barely dropped.

[shadowkat]

Both Robb and Jon are teens when the books start. Jon's about or close to the same age as Robb. That's actually been a rather understandable critique of the books --- that we are following these kids in their coming of age story. And it's a brutal one.

Ayra is 10 Bran is 6 Sansa is 14 Robb is 16 Ricon is 5 Dany is 16 Jon is 17 maybe Tyron is 16 maybe Joffry was 15 Tommen was 10 Myrcella was 10

I may be slightly off, they did make them a bit older in the books. Because...otherwise...

[anoyo]

Yeah. I did read enough of the first book to know how old they are. (I tried to read it, honest!) It makes the choices / book canon make a little bit more sense? Or something.

Either way: poor kids.

[shadowkat]

Wait, I wrote that wrong...it should read " they did them a bit older THAN they were in the books. They were about those ages or younger in the books. While in the tv series they were about an age or two older.

[shadowkat]

Okay, everyone else but Tormund/Brienne and...Gilly/Sam who I forgot about. ;-)

[anoyo]

Haha! Yeah, I ship both of those, definitely.

[shadowkat]

Oh forgot to ask? What did you think of Uncle Benjy showing up out of the blue, saving Jon, and them being overwhelmed by the White Walkers??

[anoyo]

LAME. He knew things! And was an interesting character!

And is probably still alive! That's sort of my theory. That he's been running around learning things, and then stalking the army, which would be a plausible reason for him seeing Jon in trouble, anyway. But wasn't he already undead? He can be a walking skeleton now. I'm cool with it.

(But, yeah, you knew he'd be saved somehow.)

[shadowkat]

Agreed. Felt like a missed opportunity and a bit too neat at the same time. If they were going to do that...they could have at least kept him in the show a bit longer.

[anoyo]

Yeah. It was sort of boo hiss for me, but Jon needed to live, so, at least he served a purpose? ~Who knows.~

[shadowkat]

Every time they threaten to kill Jon Snow, I think...really? show? Come on. We know you won't kill him off, you have this huge secret you are just dying to reveal. And he has to be alive to reveal it. I know they aren't killing off Jamie, Tyrion, Cersei, Dany or Jon until at the very least next season. They all signed million dollar contracts for S7 (which is split into two halves). Everyone else is fair game. Although they've done way too much work setting Ayra up as an assassin to kill her off soon. Sansa....is fair game. So too is Brienne, Tormund, LF, Jorah, Hound (Dog)...fair game.

[anoyo]

Yeah, I feel like the people alive right now are going to stay alive through the finale, with possible exceptions for more minor characters. (And possibly not even those.) If they kill Arya this season I'll punch something.

Bran...I have no idea what they're doing with Bran. They've got to have some grand plan. Or, on the other hand, they did what was supposed to happen with him and now they're like, "...uh, now what? CONVENIENT EXPOSITION DEVICE!" Then he's mostly disposable.

(I really, really liked Bran's plot. I kind of want him to stay alive.)

[shadowkat]

Well, there's speculation on Bran... HERE...

But it's just speculation as far as I can tell.

Makes no sense for Ayra to die yet, LF or Sansa maybe...but not Ayra, far too much set up. Ayra, Sansa, the northern lords, and LF haven't figured out yet why Jon doesn't care a fig about the "game of thrones". I have a feeling they'll find out up close and personal next episode. This past week's episode was when Jorah, Dany, and the Hound figured it out. Next week they need to bring Jaime, Tyrion, Sansa, Ayra and the rest of the cast up to speed.

[anoyo]

I've heard that one, actually. I would be okay with it. I don't know if the way they're explaining it works, but it would make sense in that, over time, the three-eyed raven had simply become the Night King, or the Night King, as a result of the children of the forest, is the three-eyed raven and Bran, as a secondary physical manifestation, exists solely to even the odds in the eyes of the gods. Or something. I've considered it, is what I'm saying.

Yeah, fair enough. The rest of the cast figuring it out will be fucking interesting, is all I'm saying. I kind of can't wait.