Memory Lane
Nov. 25th, 2018 09:48 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkat1. In strolling through my archives, I've realized that politics has always been an incendiary topic.
I lost three correspondents in 2008 election, two-die hard Hillary supporters, who were upset with my infrequent posts on the topic. And one-die hard McCain/Palin supporter, who was an ultra-conservative pro-Israel political science academic. I'd met her in person and knew she was conservative, just didn't realize she was THAT conservative. We got in a fight over Camilia Paglia and Sarah Palin of all things. She's long since disappeared. I wonder what she's thinking about politics now? The other two, I had long debates regarding the fact that as much as I respected Hillary Clinton, I did not think she had a chance in hell of winning over McCain/Palin, and wasn't charismatic enough to get elected. Also, there were too many people who hated her -- even back then.
Politics Redux
What's also interesting in the above link is most of the people commenting on it -- are long gone from DW/LJ. They've moved onto FB or other sites.
Puts things in perspective. We seem to be repeating ourselves.
2. In re-reading posts...I realized that not only was politics an incendiary topic, so was anything critiquing the Buffy fandom, critiquing the comics, critiquing Buffy or regarding Spike and Buffy relationship, or comparing Angel to Spike. (Although I still think the Doctor Who, The X-men/Marvel, General Hospital, and Supernatural Fandoms are far nuttier than the Buffy fandom ever was. Having dipped my toe in all of the above. Buffy had nothing on them. I'm thinking longevity probably adds to it. More time to attract bat-shit crazy-obsessed fans.)
My difficulty with Buffy, which is similar to my issues with most long-running television series. And that is a lack of logical plot and/or character continuity. Sometimes just from episode to episode. The comics were even worse in regards to continuity. Whedon brought back characters, and forgot various subplots.
Also, without exception, every nasty fight I had with the online Buffy fandom seemed to be about Spike (and/or whether the Buffy comics were canonical to the series.) It got tiring after a while.
I kept telling people -- this is personal journal, entitled "Spontaneous Musing" - no less - emphasis on the Spontaneous...why the frigging heck do you care what I think about XYZ? It's obviously Just My Opinion and not always written that well. One fan accused me of potential fandom kerfuffle or it being flamewarbait -- based on her bad experiences on certain forums (that I was wise enough to stay clear of). Honestly, she was being silly. The post only got five-six commentators. It was rather long-winded. And as a result, I think she only got the gist of it, so misunderstood what I was trying to say. Looking back? I should have ignored her. She deleted her journal about five-six year ago anyhow. Never met her. We were just acquaintances, and she rarely posted on my journal. I don't know why she bothered. Probably hit a button and was upset about something else at the time. (98% of kerfuffles have absolutely nothing to do with the topic, and everything to do with the individual combatants personal lives.)
A couple of lessons I've learned over time. If something makes you angry, it's far better NOT to act on it and to let it go. The less we act on what enrages or annoys us, the happier we are. That's not to say you shouldn't stand up to bullies or injustice. But a random post on the internet about fandom, most likely doesn't fit into that category. And ten years from now? You'll be long gone, off to other things...and there the post sits...lost among all the others.
And, don't worry if no one responds to what you post or a comment. It's not about you. Never is. I was looking back over the posts that got the most responses...and they all were "fandom" related, and either validated the poster's worldview or view of the tv episode, comic book, etc or strongly disagreed with it and they felt the overwhelming need to leap in and correct this perspective. Sometimes...it was just, "whoa, never saw that...let's discuss and did you think about this?" -- which was the response that I wanted. I did get that a lot -- mainly because 98% of the people who I'd friended on LJ -- came at things from a "discussion" perspective. So, to be fair? I never really had a kerfuffle. If I got 77 comments -- it was usually twenty people and myself having lengthy analytical discussions over the story. Not twenty people fighting over the morality of fictional characters -- which I had little to no tolerance for -- and most people figured that out rather quickly, since I'd kick them the moment they attempted to go down the morality route. (Looking back?I wish I'd merely ignored them. It would have been the better route...I think, in the long run. And conserved a lot more energy.)
I will state that the arguments I did have over Spike or Spuffy or were fandom related had nothing to do with LGBTQA. (I did have a couple religious/political arguments with people that circled around that topic. But since I pretty much made it clear from the get-go that I had a 0 tolerance policy for homophobia and anti-LGBTQA or anti-same-sex marriage, people who disagreed stayed clear. Just as the pro-lifers and pro-death penalty supporters stayed clear.) No, they weren't political.
Did they get worse after 2003?
No not really. When Spike joined Angel -- the Angel fandom was pissed off at the Spike fans for ruining Angel's show by (allegedly) pushing the writers and the network to add Spike to it. And went after them with pick-axes online. It got so bad, that Tim Minear jumped on one of the fan boards and told them to get a frigging grip and trust the writers. They calmed down considerably after that -- mainly because Minear was their hero. At the time, I remember thinking, you nitwits deserve to have your favorite series cancelled. Ghod they were obnoxious. Then Angel got cancelled, and Whedon did the Buffy comics...which well..caused other issues.
I left finally (for all intents and purposes) around 2011, fed up with comics. It really wasn't the fandom kerfuffles that drove me out, mainly because I wasn't really that involved with the fandom any longer outside of my own journal. I'd lost interest in fan forums and discussion forums, finding them increasingly difficult to follow and the posters on them rather annoying. No one really read each other's posts, nor could you see them. The formatting of the new fan forums didn't work for me. So, I was oblivious to any kerfuffles that happened on them or anything they said about anything I posted that anyone on them may have linked to (unless of course they popped up on my lj out of the blue, but if you didn't have lj or DW, I tended to screen people and only accept them if they weren't obnoxious.)
3. I apparently went on a Meta saving kick in 2009 (which is when my GeoCities site went down, and I found out that the only way I would be able to save all the meta I posted to the boards, would be to save it to my journal).
So if you want to find all my Buffy meta - go here: https://shadowkat.dreamwidth.org/2009/07/
Ghod, I wrote an embarrassingly amount of Buffy meta. I think the online equivalent of two 400 pages books worth. I wish I could say it was well written. There are a lot of typos and grammatical errors in there -- mainly because I proofed them myself and never had anyone else edit or beta them. (Too chicken to ask, also I didn't know you could do that. Many of them were literally written off-the-cuff.)
I think I finally got tired of defending my favorite character in the Whedonverse to folks.
4. I also wrote about Torchwood ...a bit along with other television shows.
* Torchwood - Children of Earth Miniseries Meta/Review
And other doctor who episodes. Didn't get the same number of responses though. Mainly because my knowledge of the Whoverse was rather limited in scope. And I'd never been a diehard fan. (I actually liked Torchwood better, more serialized and ensemble. Doctor Who was too much like those old hero saves person of the week shows dating back to Quantum Leap, The Fugitive, the Incredible Hulk, etc for me to really fall in love with it.)
5. The best posts...I think, may have been the personal ones, which were often flocked or privatized. Which is interesting. I just posted one that had been privatized to Word Press.
Tell Me A Story.
It isn't snarky. My metas and reviews oftentimes were. Although many weren't. It depended on my mood and just how annoyed I was at the series, myself, and my fellow fans at the time.
I had a love/hate relationship with Buffy, Whedon and the fandom. I didn't understand my own obsession with it, and I had issues with how people attacked one another for merely preferring one character or relationship over others. Why did it matter that I preferred Spuffy to say Bangle? It had nothing to do with what was on screen.
And the characters weren't real, so why did their actions however cruel or immoral have any weight on how I should feel about them? Didn't I have a right to my own perspective? And why would I care about an opposing one for a television series character? So, I often found myself poking fun at and/or judging those who did care, and at myself for doing the same. It didn't always go over very well.
I'd realize it, and then psychoanalyze why we were all doing it.
Ten to fifteen years later? I've no answers. People get obsessed with things. Mainly because they probably are craving something? Or it is just human. Everyone gets obsessed with something or fannish over something, whether it be a toy, a video-game, the Royal family, a sports team, a band, a celebrity, a reality show, etc...But when you get with other people who are similarly obsessed, it can is often wonderful and awful at the same time.
Looking back on it now -- I realize that the Buffy fandom probably kept me sane. Weird as that may sound. It gave me a distraction and support during a rough period in my life. And I was lucky enough to find enough like-minded souls in it...for that to be the case. I don't think everyone was so lucky.
It may have helped that I wasn't really a fanfic writer or involved in the fanfic arena of the fandom. I was more into meta. Also, I tended to write general meta about all the characters, along with all the episodes. While, yes, my favorite character (to the disappointment of many) was Spike, and my favorite ship was Spuffy (disappointing even more people -- I know because they kept trying to talk me out of it, foolish people), I was mainly interested in the structure of the story, the character development, the underlying metaphors, themes, and interelationships and arcs. And I was smart enough to begin my meta writings with every character but Spike. I didn't start writing about Spike until I'd covered most of the other characters. This helped get people who did not like Spike to respect me as a Buffy fan and writer, and to overlook the fact that I liked Spike and they didn't.
So while I did get into a few skirmishes with people, it wasn't that many. And usually just with a few people who were upset that I preferred Spike to Angel or Spike to Xander and felt that I needed to be shown the error of my ways. (Although I doubt they perceived themselves as doing that.)
At any rate...I felt my personal essays were better. As was my original fiction. Since it was pulled from me and not an obsession that I had a love/hate relationship with. Others may not agree. But I've long since learned not to worry too much over what others think in regards to these things.
6. On a final note, a more melancholy one...what I mostly struck by wandering through these old posts is how many people have long since left the Dreamwidth and LJ forums (myself included -- I'm no longer on lj and am crossed out in others journals on that forum).
Some dead...I really miss embers_log.
Others just gone.
Most left in 2011, apparently. Some left in 2017. Gone to other forums, most likely.
I know half the ATPO Board is now on FB. That's where I interact with rahael, ponygirl2000, masq, midnight jane, anne1962, superplin, matcha, mamacunluna, and sometimes dochawk, Elle, D'H, and buffyannatator (who I'm no longer really following).
The other half is here. It's like all the women fled to FB, and all the men stayed on DW. And they both disparage the other medium. The FB group isn't found of DW/LJ and the DW group isn't fond of FB.
I find it hilarious. I've had these mirror-like discussions with both, where I'm either defending FB or DW.
And others, they jumped to other forums, I'm guessing.
I lost three correspondents in 2008 election, two-die hard Hillary supporters, who were upset with my infrequent posts on the topic. And one-die hard McCain/Palin supporter, who was an ultra-conservative pro-Israel political science academic. I'd met her in person and knew she was conservative, just didn't realize she was THAT conservative. We got in a fight over Camilia Paglia and Sarah Palin of all things. She's long since disappeared. I wonder what she's thinking about politics now? The other two, I had long debates regarding the fact that as much as I respected Hillary Clinton, I did not think she had a chance in hell of winning over McCain/Palin, and wasn't charismatic enough to get elected. Also, there were too many people who hated her -- even back then.
Politics Redux
What's also interesting in the above link is most of the people commenting on it -- are long gone from DW/LJ. They've moved onto FB or other sites.
Puts things in perspective. We seem to be repeating ourselves.
2. In re-reading posts...I realized that not only was politics an incendiary topic, so was anything critiquing the Buffy fandom, critiquing the comics, critiquing Buffy or regarding Spike and Buffy relationship, or comparing Angel to Spike. (Although I still think the Doctor Who, The X-men/Marvel, General Hospital, and Supernatural Fandoms are far nuttier than the Buffy fandom ever was. Having dipped my toe in all of the above. Buffy had nothing on them. I'm thinking longevity probably adds to it. More time to attract bat-shit crazy-obsessed fans.)
My difficulty with Buffy, which is similar to my issues with most long-running television series. And that is a lack of logical plot and/or character continuity. Sometimes just from episode to episode. The comics were even worse in regards to continuity. Whedon brought back characters, and forgot various subplots.
Also, without exception, every nasty fight I had with the online Buffy fandom seemed to be about Spike (and/or whether the Buffy comics were canonical to the series.) It got tiring after a while.
I kept telling people -- this is personal journal, entitled "Spontaneous Musing" - no less - emphasis on the Spontaneous...why the frigging heck do you care what I think about XYZ? It's obviously Just My Opinion and not always written that well. One fan accused me of potential fandom kerfuffle or it being flamewarbait -- based on her bad experiences on certain forums (that I was wise enough to stay clear of). Honestly, she was being silly. The post only got five-six commentators. It was rather long-winded. And as a result, I think she only got the gist of it, so misunderstood what I was trying to say. Looking back? I should have ignored her. She deleted her journal about five-six year ago anyhow. Never met her. We were just acquaintances, and she rarely posted on my journal. I don't know why she bothered. Probably hit a button and was upset about something else at the time. (98% of kerfuffles have absolutely nothing to do with the topic, and everything to do with the individual combatants personal lives.)
A couple of lessons I've learned over time. If something makes you angry, it's far better NOT to act on it and to let it go. The less we act on what enrages or annoys us, the happier we are. That's not to say you shouldn't stand up to bullies or injustice. But a random post on the internet about fandom, most likely doesn't fit into that category. And ten years from now? You'll be long gone, off to other things...and there the post sits...lost among all the others.
And, don't worry if no one responds to what you post or a comment. It's not about you. Never is. I was looking back over the posts that got the most responses...and they all were "fandom" related, and either validated the poster's worldview or view of the tv episode, comic book, etc or strongly disagreed with it and they felt the overwhelming need to leap in and correct this perspective. Sometimes...it was just, "whoa, never saw that...let's discuss and did you think about this?" -- which was the response that I wanted. I did get that a lot -- mainly because 98% of the people who I'd friended on LJ -- came at things from a "discussion" perspective. So, to be fair? I never really had a kerfuffle. If I got 77 comments -- it was usually twenty people and myself having lengthy analytical discussions over the story. Not twenty people fighting over the morality of fictional characters -- which I had little to no tolerance for -- and most people figured that out rather quickly, since I'd kick them the moment they attempted to go down the morality route. (Looking back?I wish I'd merely ignored them. It would have been the better route...I think, in the long run. And conserved a lot more energy.)
I will state that the arguments I did have over Spike or Spuffy or were fandom related had nothing to do with LGBTQA. (I did have a couple religious/political arguments with people that circled around that topic. But since I pretty much made it clear from the get-go that I had a 0 tolerance policy for homophobia and anti-LGBTQA or anti-same-sex marriage, people who disagreed stayed clear. Just as the pro-lifers and pro-death penalty supporters stayed clear.) No, they weren't political.
Did they get worse after 2003?
No not really. When Spike joined Angel -- the Angel fandom was pissed off at the Spike fans for ruining Angel's show by (allegedly) pushing the writers and the network to add Spike to it. And went after them with pick-axes online. It got so bad, that Tim Minear jumped on one of the fan boards and told them to get a frigging grip and trust the writers. They calmed down considerably after that -- mainly because Minear was their hero. At the time, I remember thinking, you nitwits deserve to have your favorite series cancelled. Ghod they were obnoxious. Then Angel got cancelled, and Whedon did the Buffy comics...which well..caused other issues.
I left finally (for all intents and purposes) around 2011, fed up with comics. It really wasn't the fandom kerfuffles that drove me out, mainly because I wasn't really that involved with the fandom any longer outside of my own journal. I'd lost interest in fan forums and discussion forums, finding them increasingly difficult to follow and the posters on them rather annoying. No one really read each other's posts, nor could you see them. The formatting of the new fan forums didn't work for me. So, I was oblivious to any kerfuffles that happened on them or anything they said about anything I posted that anyone on them may have linked to (unless of course they popped up on my lj out of the blue, but if you didn't have lj or DW, I tended to screen people and only accept them if they weren't obnoxious.)
3. I apparently went on a Meta saving kick in 2009 (which is when my GeoCities site went down, and I found out that the only way I would be able to save all the meta I posted to the boards, would be to save it to my journal).
So if you want to find all my Buffy meta - go here: https://shadowkat.dreamwidth.org/2009/07/
Ghod, I wrote an embarrassingly amount of Buffy meta. I think the online equivalent of two 400 pages books worth. I wish I could say it was well written. There are a lot of typos and grammatical errors in there -- mainly because I proofed them myself and never had anyone else edit or beta them. (Too chicken to ask, also I didn't know you could do that. Many of them were literally written off-the-cuff.)
I think I finally got tired of defending my favorite character in the Whedonverse to folks.
4. I also wrote about Torchwood ...a bit along with other television shows.
* Torchwood - Children of Earth Miniseries Meta/Review
And other doctor who episodes. Didn't get the same number of responses though. Mainly because my knowledge of the Whoverse was rather limited in scope. And I'd never been a diehard fan. (I actually liked Torchwood better, more serialized and ensemble. Doctor Who was too much like those old hero saves person of the week shows dating back to Quantum Leap, The Fugitive, the Incredible Hulk, etc for me to really fall in love with it.)
5. The best posts...I think, may have been the personal ones, which were often flocked or privatized. Which is interesting. I just posted one that had been privatized to Word Press.
Tell Me A Story.
It isn't snarky. My metas and reviews oftentimes were. Although many weren't. It depended on my mood and just how annoyed I was at the series, myself, and my fellow fans at the time.
I had a love/hate relationship with Buffy, Whedon and the fandom. I didn't understand my own obsession with it, and I had issues with how people attacked one another for merely preferring one character or relationship over others. Why did it matter that I preferred Spuffy to say Bangle? It had nothing to do with what was on screen.
And the characters weren't real, so why did their actions however cruel or immoral have any weight on how I should feel about them? Didn't I have a right to my own perspective? And why would I care about an opposing one for a television series character? So, I often found myself poking fun at and/or judging those who did care, and at myself for doing the same. It didn't always go over very well.
I'd realize it, and then psychoanalyze why we were all doing it.
Ten to fifteen years later? I've no answers. People get obsessed with things. Mainly because they probably are craving something? Or it is just human. Everyone gets obsessed with something or fannish over something, whether it be a toy, a video-game, the Royal family, a sports team, a band, a celebrity, a reality show, etc...But when you get with other people who are similarly obsessed, it can is often wonderful and awful at the same time.
Looking back on it now -- I realize that the Buffy fandom probably kept me sane. Weird as that may sound. It gave me a distraction and support during a rough period in my life. And I was lucky enough to find enough like-minded souls in it...for that to be the case. I don't think everyone was so lucky.
It may have helped that I wasn't really a fanfic writer or involved in the fanfic arena of the fandom. I was more into meta. Also, I tended to write general meta about all the characters, along with all the episodes. While, yes, my favorite character (to the disappointment of many) was Spike, and my favorite ship was Spuffy (disappointing even more people -- I know because they kept trying to talk me out of it, foolish people), I was mainly interested in the structure of the story, the character development, the underlying metaphors, themes, and interelationships and arcs. And I was smart enough to begin my meta writings with every character but Spike. I didn't start writing about Spike until I'd covered most of the other characters. This helped get people who did not like Spike to respect me as a Buffy fan and writer, and to overlook the fact that I liked Spike and they didn't.
So while I did get into a few skirmishes with people, it wasn't that many. And usually just with a few people who were upset that I preferred Spike to Angel or Spike to Xander and felt that I needed to be shown the error of my ways. (Although I doubt they perceived themselves as doing that.)
At any rate...I felt my personal essays were better. As was my original fiction. Since it was pulled from me and not an obsession that I had a love/hate relationship with. Others may not agree. But I've long since learned not to worry too much over what others think in regards to these things.
6. On a final note, a more melancholy one...what I mostly struck by wandering through these old posts is how many people have long since left the Dreamwidth and LJ forums (myself included -- I'm no longer on lj and am crossed out in others journals on that forum).
Some dead...I really miss embers_log.
Others just gone.
Most left in 2011, apparently. Some left in 2017. Gone to other forums, most likely.
I know half the ATPO Board is now on FB. That's where I interact with rahael, ponygirl2000, masq, midnight jane, anne1962, superplin, matcha, mamacunluna, and sometimes dochawk, Elle, D'H, and buffyannatator (who I'm no longer really following).
The other half is here. It's like all the women fled to FB, and all the men stayed on DW. And they both disparage the other medium. The FB group isn't found of DW/LJ and the DW group isn't fond of FB.
I find it hilarious. I've had these mirror-like discussions with both, where I'm either defending FB or DW.
And others, they jumped to other forums, I'm guessing.
no subject
Date: 2018-11-28 06:31 pm (UTC)But mostly, it's impossible to have a real conversation, however short.
You're right it is impossible to have a real conversation. I've been thinking about what you said off and on today and realized that's the source of my frustration with FB. I keep trying to have discussions and conversations on it, and getting nowhere. Other people do as well, and it...never really works.
People don't want to listen to you -- they just want to post their opinion or their views, and get validated for them through likes. It becomes more about whose opinion everyone "likes" the most. Twitter's similar, as is Tumblr, and LJ was becoming that way. How many likes, shares, reposts, can a person get - like it's a contest or something. And FB/Twitter will award you for it by tabulating them -- and telling you which posts were the most popular with readers. Good Reads and Amazon are the same way -- the top reviewers are the ones with the most likes, the top books have the best ratings or reviews.
FB et al are structured as a marketing/advertising/networking platform not really a discussion or conversational platform. Which makes the information shared on it circumspect as a result. It's how social media has changed since the 1990s and early 00s -- become less about conversation and more about promotion and marketing. Hence the rise in fake news, discord, and everything else. People are too busy selling something, to listen. (I've been playing on two fan forums on FB and both have this problem. One is better than the other, but I can't have a good discussion on either, it's superficial and about validating everyone's love of the show.)
I look forward to interacting with you on this platform
Me too. Although will miss your posts on FB.
no subject
Date: 2018-11-28 11:53 pm (UTC)I think people are looking for instant closure, instant connection, instant understanding, and that comes from their customized feeds mirroring back what they want to hear. I felt that phenomenon starting to affect me. And I realized I wasn't using the media the same way as other people. Thankfully, there are alternate ways of using the marvel of technology to connect with others. :)
Now, I'm ready for a new fandom. I haven't had one since BSG, which was a long long time ago. Whoosh!