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shadowkat1. It's another beautiful day that I'm strongly considering just laying low during, since I have to negotiate a change order tomorrow.
Watched "Avengers: Endgame" last night -- and it like the other films, weirdly improves upon re-watching. (Captain America's final scene still doesn't make a lot of sense -- just because of how they explain time-travel in the film. But everything else does, and I loved the metaphor. It works on all the other levels, just not quite in regards to how they've explained time travel. It doesn't bother me -- mainly because I was invested in the overall metaphor, and more Stark's arc than Cap's.)
I love the metaphors in Endgame. That all life is of value. And how wars and battles, and the need to wage them ...just destroy. There's no redeeming value to war, regardless of what the embodiment of it states, Thanos. (Thanatos is the Greek God of Death.) The movie pushes that we must do what we can to value life. The Avengers each make a sacrifice based on how they, up til now, valued war or fighting over life. Thor - the Warrior Prince - who felt he was destined to be King - abdicates the throne to a Valkarie, who doesn't want to fight wars. Captain America - lets go of his shield, when the battle is done, and goes back in time to be with the love of his life. Black Widow who has spent every day strategizing and fighting, sacrifices herself to bring back a family -- fighting to be the one to do it. Hawkeye lets go of his vengence and vigilantism to help bring back his family, The Hulk comes to terms with his anger and merges the two side -- becoming less about war and mayhem and more about kindess -- he spends the movie persuading a Wizard to let go of a stone, with words not fists. And Iron Man, the weapons manufacturer, snaps his fingers sacrficing his life to wipe out War and machines of death and destruction.
Every time I watch the end -- I cry, not because it is sad, but beautiful in the sense that all these people come together to fight for life and to end war. It gives me hope -- particularly in the fact that bald white men created it, and so many people around the globe enjoyed it.
Mileage varies -- but that's how I saw it. (And I really don't care how others did. Sometimes we just don't want to hear the opposing point of view. Also let's face it we all like different things and see the world differently.)
Anyhow, that aside, the bonus materials are interesting -- it has about five hours worth. There's a thirty minute tribute to Stan Lee, featuring all his cameos across the films and footage of him taping each one. And then twenty-thirty minute in depth bits on the casting and creation of each of the major Avengers Characters -- from Iron Man to Black Widow.
Making my way through it...they manage to explain and quite well a few of the controversial decisions they made. Thor's journey, Captain America's (only controversial if you are a) a Bucky/Steve romantic shipper (which honestly is shipping vague and open to interpretation subtext and against text and you gotta know you won't get what you want), b) nit-picky about the time travel bit, and Black Widow.
There's a deleted scenes reel -- the decisions on that were right on the mark. Those scenes needed to be deleted. A gag reel. A making of the series -- how they selected the writers and directors, sort of the congratulatory bit.
And now...we have the film commentary section, where we go through the film with the directors/writers, and they explain all their decisions they made as they go through the film shot by shot.
Basically for the price of $19.99 - I get the movie, and about six hours of the rest. Which is a deal. Considering I spent $21 to see the original. Downside? The commentary for some reason will throw me out every fifteen minutes.
Commentary:
* Hawkeye's daughter - is Antony Russo's daughter. They mention how they do a scene from a horror film to open the movie.
* Song for the opening credits -- was specifically chosen from a tonal perspective
and point of view, a way to distinguish.
* Tony Stark's arc is commenting on -- about the essential conflict of himself as a hero...from the egotistical, arrogant, self-involved character to a selfless one. He finally gets it. The five years...gives all the characters a chance to become complete people. And how they built to Captain Marvel entrance. And why they chose to have Captain Marvel reveal with Tony, as opposed to having it happen when she lands the plane at the Avenger's headquarters.
* Examination of how each dealt with loss and pain. Also how each view it -- Steve, Natasha, and Captain Marvel -- see a solution, while Stark doesn't see a way. They want to take to Thanos, which Tony already did.
* They played logic games with each of the heroes -- to figure out what would you do in this situation. And set up initially as an action-adventure film of chasing Thanatos for the Infinity Gauntlet -- then they derail it in fifteen minutes.
* Also in a good script -- when you hear a line -- you should be able to guess who said it. If it's a line that anyone could have said -- you have to go back to the drawing board and re-write it.
* They are going after a foe -- who has the ultimate weapon, who can go through you like paper...so they were debating what to do here. How do you defeat this impossible villain. And their head-producer said --"why don't you just kill him."
And that changed the entire dynamic. Killing him half-way through Act One -- the Avengers suddenly have no way around their grief.
* Altered the mood of the film after the Five Years Later -- color scheme is off, tone is subdued.
* They also tag Peggy Carter twice in the beginning -- setting it up.
* Rat saves the universe by switched back on the quantum machine --bringing Scott Lang back and the bit about time. The inherent joke in that.
* If you take a character who is traditionally funny, then put them into pathos..that's doubly painful.
* Came up with a What-if section -- what would happen with the heros in a five year jump after a horrific event. That five years is their what-if section.
* Process -- often the writers will tweak a scene when they are busy shooting another scene. It can work on big movies better than small ones. They see something off, and tweak the next scene to make it work.
* Black Widow's journey from villian to hero, individualism to community, or individual to family. She discovers the value of community over self, and how to make it whole again. She sacrifices herself to bring back family and community. (The writers are anti-Rand. LOL!)
* Takes a character that normally presents as funny, and put the burden of stakes on him -- pushes it.
* Also mirrors us at the very end of Infinity War -- in how the hell do we get out of the corner that we've written ourselves into. We came up with time travel, which we immediately thought -- that's incredibly stupid, we can't do that. But we hadn't done Ant-Man yet, and we realized...oh, we can do this. And of course, time travel doesn't exist -- it's a genre construct, and we had to find a way to work with that.
* Tony...is different after five years, more cautious, and has everything to lose -- if they change time, he could lose his family and everything he has - particularly his daughter's life. When before he did whatever he wanted -- screw the consequences. Also bringing all the people back after they died five years ago? That's a complicate premise...any way you look at it.
* Hulk/Banner -- Professor Hulk, the creation of smart Hulk -- took place during Infinity War - at the hour of greatest need, he comes out. They cut out Smart Hulk/Professor Hulk bit in the hero -- because it took the audience away from the story. The snap worked out for Hulk. (The kids in that scene are Russo's kids.) Two characters who hate each other in the same movie -- manage to get together.
* Tony's loss of Peter Parker (the other child he lost), and that spurs him to action. Pepper plots out the essential conflict to him as a hero -- that he can never rest until everyone is safe. Why it's a different movie - is it's a lot of people working it out. There's a lot of people working things out, small human moments.
* Thor -- the depth of grief that Thor was driven to, mission of vengeance, can't get any lower ...so the only road forward is humor. Five year jump to treat each one of the characters differently. Thor goes innward -- numbing the pain. (Banner got himself together, Natasha lost herself in work, Clint got vengeful..Thor numbs the pain.) (They thought it was funny and want seven seasons of it, oh dear. Frat Boy humor. Sigh.) Thor clearly blames himself for the loss, why he killed Thanos, and he wanted to enounciate his vengeance, and he ultimately fails. His whole arc is to accept who he is -- and this is it. He's sober at the end, but he doesn't really change from this. His arcs is to get past who everyone expected him to be (the Warrior King) and to embrace who he is...which is one of the major themes of the film -- to embrace who you are not what people expect you to be.
* Clint -- was a reference to Black Rain (film), wide variety of experience that each character went through. Hawkeye went to such a dark and fringe place. Beginning of the Clint/Natasha arc -- and what they'd do for each other. He pulled her out of being a Russian agent (didn't kill her, instead changed her life) and here she's doing the same.
* The explanation that Banner gives on Time Travel is the actual explanation by Quantum Physicists brought into the writers room to explain time travel to us. And the discussion is basically taken from the writers discussing time travel with actual quantum physicists.
* It's brought up that Nebula didn't know about the exchange required on Formir, just that her sister didn't come back, and her father returned with the stone. That's it. And Red Skull is the Guardian on Formir, and is the only one who knows.
* Each of the pairings have a purpose in the film -- the Nebula/War Machine is the way to pull antagonist back into the film. And a way to re-visit dead characters from another angle. Gamora who was killed in Infinity War, and can revisit a different version of the characters. Just as they revisit different versions of Thanos and Nebula. (Took a long while to make it clear and clean and easy to understand. And continue the narrative thread from the previous screen.)
* "America's Ass" joke was a controversial joke among the writers and directors, who hotly debated its use.
* Each mission has a different tone. (They snuck into a theater -- to watch it with 1200 people -- and the most satisfying moment with the audience was Cap exiting the elevator by stating "hail hydra". The audience assumes there will be a fight, but instead they subvert it and do something different.)
* Robert Redford's last movie role and performance in a movie - is in Endgame, as described by himself on set at the time. (Unless he changes his mind.) We realized at that moment -- that Hulk was in the stairs...(in the writing room) and it was too stupid not to do it -- so Hulk kicks Tony, Tony loses the suitcase and Loki disappears with it. (Shows how you can't predict all the variables, and things can go wrong.)
* They discuss the Cap on Cap fight...and we're dealing how distinctively different over 11 years. The square version from 1940s, out of the water, Avenger's One, vs. the character 11 years later, after he's been through everything. This is the controversial joke -- "How often does a man have an opportunity to admire his own ass -- you have to take it."
* Reminds the audience of the 14.6 M different time lines that Doctor Strange looked at. And how Tilda Swinton's character could never see past her own death -- has to take Banner's word for it. Also raises stakes for Cap returning stones at the end.
* Shows how smart Thanos is...and how he figures out what happened in his own future.
*They filmed the Thor scenes in Durham Cathedral in Ireland, and during Infinity War filming. (They filmed the two films at the same time.) Thor's arc in the film is that he finally gets to be who was meant to be --- and is, as opposed to what his father or brother expected him to be. He's been striving to fulfill an idea of himself that he inherently somehow doesn't fit -- and it's only now that he realizes he doesn't have to do that and is determined his worthy.
* How they used music to play with tone and alter tone within the film. Show two different perspectives with Quill -- in his perspective, all is celebratory, he's cool, and dancing, going for the fortune, but shifting to War Machine and Nebula -- Quill's just a guy with a walkman on, singing out of tune.
* Development of Thanos -- who gets nothing but satisfaction from his own death, willing to die for his mission. Also showing that Gamora's reaction is different from his to what happened. This is right before Gamora fled from him.
* Show all the things that went wrong...and didn't expect..regarding mission.
* Cap and Tony pairing -- and how the whole series of films is about the Tony/Cap arcs overlapping and commenting on each other...one goes from selfish to selfless, while the other goes from selfless to becoming a bit more selfish, while both have to deal with their misconceived notions about defense, military, and war.
* The final Stan Lee performance, with his quintessential Stan Lee quote - "Nuff'Said" - which was his tag line.
* They discuss how they deliberately built each scene to further the next, and what was to come ahead. That they needed the Steve/Peggy moment, and the Tony/Howard moment -- also how it couldn't have been done without the CGI special effects. Ten years ago they couldn't have pulled it off. Also, how they managed to find a period in time in which Hank Pym, Howard Stark, and Peggy Carter were all at the same time and place.
* Also discuss how important the build up to Vormir was and that since for it to work, you needed two people who loved each other -- and out of the pairings this was the one. Act construction wise -- it always had to be the last sequence of Act II, can't have it interspliced with the others or intercut it with Tony/Cap, then the audience brain is focused more on Vormir.
* They had reshot. Originally had Thanos send a pretend army to push them, which was convoluted and didn't work. And took away the characters agency. So they rewrote and reshot, and focused on two people who really love each other -- and how they literally fight each other to see who gets to sacrifice themselves. Natasha summons up this is what she's been working up for -- it's her self-less act to bring back the community. Otherwise no chance. She's fighting to save her family. Natasha is NOT fighting to save Clint's family -- she's fighting to be the one to save "her" family, her community, for billions of people. And she's trying to erase the red in her ledger. It's not about saving Clint's family -- it's about saving her's. And they didn't do it lightly. Unfortunately had to go -- with the rest thing to happen in Act II. What separates the deaths in this movie from Infinity War, is that they are the choice of the characters -- Tony's choice, Natasha's choice, as opposed to Infinity War where it's all done to them by Thanos (Gamora, Loki, Vision) were all done to them.
* They also go out of their way to state it can't be undone, some of the deaths can't be undone.
* They take a scene to lay out the stakes of using the gauntlet. And they did go out of the way to show ...what happened to Thanos using the stones twice and why he's so easy defeated.
* Avengers conference room that appears to be nicely light is in reality an abandoned conference room in semi-abandoned Sheriton Hotel outside of the Atlanta Airport.
* They have Thanos destroy the Avenger's Home and blast the characters, to raise the stakes, before everyone pops back to help.
* The snap of the gauntlet had to have five years...but not as if the five years are gone. It's like a ghost story -- someone you lost five years suddenly is back. But it was important to keep the five years in place.
You get back what you lost...looks like the end of the film, but how do you complicate that? They are mindful about splitting characters in smaller groups to explore in more depth. Also by putting the characters in dire straits...causes the audience to forget that the other characters are back. And so when Cap is alone on the battle field, with everyone fallen...we think they are done for and surprised by everyone's return.
There was another version -- where Thanos opens a portal, and comes back from 2012 and throws Cap's head from 2012 onto the carpet -- but they decided that was a bridget too far and not to do that. It wouldn't work.
* They didn't have Thor have any weight loss because from their perspective he was fixed, and weight has nothing to do with it. Thor's back but hasn't changed -- with the old confidence intact.
* Looked at Once Upon a Time in West -- and they discuss the themes, before killing each other. So did something similar here.
* Each of the characters have grown in the last five years, eleven years...and that has stayed with them.
* Nebula -- two versions of oneself, and the one refusing to accept it...and can't see past Thanos, and is killed by herself.
* Fanservice -- it's not fanservice if it is within the natural arc of the character and been earned. You have to stick within the natural arc of the character.
* The spacing of the films was important to push the emotion and get the audience to think about the characters. And build tension. And how there were pay-off's and lines that couldn't have been paid off without the serialized nature of the films.
It also took a while to work out the big group scene...and what really worked is Cap is so used to going it alone -- and finds out he doesn't have to.
* In an early draft they had everyone with the Gauntlet, but instead went with four.
MEntion how Scarlet Witch is among the few on the field with a chance against Thanos. Also how Scarlet Witches power are all about her emotional past and pain of her past.
* The very last shot of the film was Iron Man's sacrifice (in their filming). And it was shot in a studio adajacent to the studio for Iron Man one.
* They also draw out Thanos death...to mislead, and also to echo Infinity War -- where he sits done on his porch.
* With Tony they thought through how he should look -- so it would telegraph..that he was done. Robert was adamant about no speeches or words after "And I'm Iron Man", that the character who had answer for everything and is constantly speaking..is done in silence. And the final scene is with her and him. They were shooting for a real honest human death...close-up on him. And it should be painful.
* They came up with the idea " I love you 3000" in post.
* The funeral shot is actually one take -- and they did it five to six times. So everyone is there. Also they deliberately had the camera wind you through the history of the Marvel franchise, and a homage to the comics takes on funerals -- where all the heroes gather.
* The reason Natasha didn't get the funeral scene in Endgame, because her character has another movie and more screen time, while Tony is done in the films and has no additional screen time. There's another movie for Natasha, so they are holding it off for her film. This is also true of Vision, who has more screen time coming up and his funeral is reserved to another film.
* The writers adore Thor and his arc to little bitty pieces. (sigh).
* Buckey has been clued in to Steve's decision. So Buckey knew, just not to the extent -- didn't know he was going to be on the bench.
Both Tony and Cap's endings were clear from the beginning. They knew. And knew as early as the first Avenger's film. And they filmed the Cap ending first -- it was one of the first scenes they filmed.
"Taking a commercial property and giving it an ending. Nothing has value unless it has an ending."
Giving the shield to Sam was never up for debate for the creators. Sam represents what Captain America should be or the idea behind our country, while Buckey represents the murkiness of what the country currently is. Sam represents what it could be. And what is the new identity he creates with it.
Cap's finale -- the door is still open here...that's important. Captain goes from "service" to self-actualization, and Tony goes from self-actualization to service.
And it is Tony who gives him this option -- and seeing what Tony does, gives him the ability to go there. He learns from Tony that it is okay to put down the shield and being a solider and just come home. To get a life."
- Endgame is also the endgame for the two writers and two directors. They are done after this.
- Apparently opening night -- when it got Robert Downey JR in the end credits - it got a standing ovation.
They filmed the inside scenes in Atlanta, apparently.
2. On the walk yesterday with Wales, she informed me that she was off social media - as in Twitter, Facebook, Instagram...due to the law firm she had worked for. Law firms when they defend or prosecute a law suite -- will demand a data dump from all the social media resources out there. Or access to them.
I told her this was why I tend to put stuff on DW, and am very careful on Facebook and Twitter.
She said that DW was not listed in the social media request list or access list. They didn't request stuff from it nor did they know it existed.
It's too far under the wire. The media isn't aware of it. There's no ads, no allowance for marketing. So as a result, neither media outlets nor law firms request access.
One of the many reasons, I deleted my live journal and moved over here -- was that the media was aware of LJ, and it had a lot of ads, and a lot of marketing popping up on it. Also, LJ made it clear that once you signed their user agreement they had rights to the content that you published on their service, and they could house that content in Russia (whereupon Russian copyright rules apply under the dictates of International Copyright Law.)
So bye, bye LJ. I don't like that level of attention. Much prefer staying beneath the wire.
Also, I don't write that much on FB or Twitter any longer. Not that I wrote that much on Twitter to begin with. I don't discuss politics at all.
At the moment, I'm using both to play in the X-men and GH fandoms, but more on the periphery...mainly because I think soap opera and comic book fans could very well be insane. It's not always clear.
Watched "Avengers: Endgame" last night -- and it like the other films, weirdly improves upon re-watching. (Captain America's final scene still doesn't make a lot of sense -- just because of how they explain time-travel in the film. But everything else does, and I loved the metaphor. It works on all the other levels, just not quite in regards to how they've explained time travel. It doesn't bother me -- mainly because I was invested in the overall metaphor, and more Stark's arc than Cap's.)
I love the metaphors in Endgame. That all life is of value. And how wars and battles, and the need to wage them ...just destroy. There's no redeeming value to war, regardless of what the embodiment of it states, Thanos. (Thanatos is the Greek God of Death.) The movie pushes that we must do what we can to value life. The Avengers each make a sacrifice based on how they, up til now, valued war or fighting over life. Thor - the Warrior Prince - who felt he was destined to be King - abdicates the throne to a Valkarie, who doesn't want to fight wars. Captain America - lets go of his shield, when the battle is done, and goes back in time to be with the love of his life. Black Widow who has spent every day strategizing and fighting, sacrifices herself to bring back a family -- fighting to be the one to do it. Hawkeye lets go of his vengence and vigilantism to help bring back his family, The Hulk comes to terms with his anger and merges the two side -- becoming less about war and mayhem and more about kindess -- he spends the movie persuading a Wizard to let go of a stone, with words not fists. And Iron Man, the weapons manufacturer, snaps his fingers sacrficing his life to wipe out War and machines of death and destruction.
Every time I watch the end -- I cry, not because it is sad, but beautiful in the sense that all these people come together to fight for life and to end war. It gives me hope -- particularly in the fact that bald white men created it, and so many people around the globe enjoyed it.
Mileage varies -- but that's how I saw it. (And I really don't care how others did. Sometimes we just don't want to hear the opposing point of view. Also let's face it we all like different things and see the world differently.)
Anyhow, that aside, the bonus materials are interesting -- it has about five hours worth. There's a thirty minute tribute to Stan Lee, featuring all his cameos across the films and footage of him taping each one. And then twenty-thirty minute in depth bits on the casting and creation of each of the major Avengers Characters -- from Iron Man to Black Widow.
Making my way through it...they manage to explain and quite well a few of the controversial decisions they made. Thor's journey, Captain America's (only controversial if you are a) a Bucky/Steve romantic shipper (which honestly is shipping vague and open to interpretation subtext and against text and you gotta know you won't get what you want), b) nit-picky about the time travel bit, and Black Widow.
There's a deleted scenes reel -- the decisions on that were right on the mark. Those scenes needed to be deleted. A gag reel. A making of the series -- how they selected the writers and directors, sort of the congratulatory bit.
And now...we have the film commentary section, where we go through the film with the directors/writers, and they explain all their decisions they made as they go through the film shot by shot.
Basically for the price of $19.99 - I get the movie, and about six hours of the rest. Which is a deal. Considering I spent $21 to see the original. Downside? The commentary for some reason will throw me out every fifteen minutes.
Commentary:
* Hawkeye's daughter - is Antony Russo's daughter. They mention how they do a scene from a horror film to open the movie.
* Song for the opening credits -- was specifically chosen from a tonal perspective
and point of view, a way to distinguish.
* Tony Stark's arc is commenting on -- about the essential conflict of himself as a hero...from the egotistical, arrogant, self-involved character to a selfless one. He finally gets it. The five years...gives all the characters a chance to become complete people. And how they built to Captain Marvel entrance. And why they chose to have Captain Marvel reveal with Tony, as opposed to having it happen when she lands the plane at the Avenger's headquarters.
* Examination of how each dealt with loss and pain. Also how each view it -- Steve, Natasha, and Captain Marvel -- see a solution, while Stark doesn't see a way. They want to take to Thanos, which Tony already did.
* They played logic games with each of the heroes -- to figure out what would you do in this situation. And set up initially as an action-adventure film of chasing Thanatos for the Infinity Gauntlet -- then they derail it in fifteen minutes.
* Also in a good script -- when you hear a line -- you should be able to guess who said it. If it's a line that anyone could have said -- you have to go back to the drawing board and re-write it.
* They are going after a foe -- who has the ultimate weapon, who can go through you like paper...so they were debating what to do here. How do you defeat this impossible villain. And their head-producer said --"why don't you just kill him."
And that changed the entire dynamic. Killing him half-way through Act One -- the Avengers suddenly have no way around their grief.
* Altered the mood of the film after the Five Years Later -- color scheme is off, tone is subdued.
* They also tag Peggy Carter twice in the beginning -- setting it up.
* Rat saves the universe by switched back on the quantum machine --bringing Scott Lang back and the bit about time. The inherent joke in that.
* If you take a character who is traditionally funny, then put them into pathos..that's doubly painful.
* Came up with a What-if section -- what would happen with the heros in a five year jump after a horrific event. That five years is their what-if section.
* Process -- often the writers will tweak a scene when they are busy shooting another scene. It can work on big movies better than small ones. They see something off, and tweak the next scene to make it work.
* Black Widow's journey from villian to hero, individualism to community, or individual to family. She discovers the value of community over self, and how to make it whole again. She sacrifices herself to bring back family and community. (The writers are anti-Rand. LOL!)
* Takes a character that normally presents as funny, and put the burden of stakes on him -- pushes it.
* Also mirrors us at the very end of Infinity War -- in how the hell do we get out of the corner that we've written ourselves into. We came up with time travel, which we immediately thought -- that's incredibly stupid, we can't do that. But we hadn't done Ant-Man yet, and we realized...oh, we can do this. And of course, time travel doesn't exist -- it's a genre construct, and we had to find a way to work with that.
* Tony...is different after five years, more cautious, and has everything to lose -- if they change time, he could lose his family and everything he has - particularly his daughter's life. When before he did whatever he wanted -- screw the consequences. Also bringing all the people back after they died five years ago? That's a complicate premise...any way you look at it.
* Hulk/Banner -- Professor Hulk, the creation of smart Hulk -- took place during Infinity War - at the hour of greatest need, he comes out. They cut out Smart Hulk/Professor Hulk bit in the hero -- because it took the audience away from the story. The snap worked out for Hulk. (The kids in that scene are Russo's kids.) Two characters who hate each other in the same movie -- manage to get together.
* Tony's loss of Peter Parker (the other child he lost), and that spurs him to action. Pepper plots out the essential conflict to him as a hero -- that he can never rest until everyone is safe. Why it's a different movie - is it's a lot of people working it out. There's a lot of people working things out, small human moments.
* Thor -- the depth of grief that Thor was driven to, mission of vengeance, can't get any lower ...so the only road forward is humor. Five year jump to treat each one of the characters differently. Thor goes innward -- numbing the pain. (Banner got himself together, Natasha lost herself in work, Clint got vengeful..Thor numbs the pain.) (They thought it was funny and want seven seasons of it, oh dear. Frat Boy humor. Sigh.) Thor clearly blames himself for the loss, why he killed Thanos, and he wanted to enounciate his vengeance, and he ultimately fails. His whole arc is to accept who he is -- and this is it. He's sober at the end, but he doesn't really change from this. His arcs is to get past who everyone expected him to be (the Warrior King) and to embrace who he is...which is one of the major themes of the film -- to embrace who you are not what people expect you to be.
* Clint -- was a reference to Black Rain (film), wide variety of experience that each character went through. Hawkeye went to such a dark and fringe place. Beginning of the Clint/Natasha arc -- and what they'd do for each other. He pulled her out of being a Russian agent (didn't kill her, instead changed her life) and here she's doing the same.
* The explanation that Banner gives on Time Travel is the actual explanation by Quantum Physicists brought into the writers room to explain time travel to us. And the discussion is basically taken from the writers discussing time travel with actual quantum physicists.
* It's brought up that Nebula didn't know about the exchange required on Formir, just that her sister didn't come back, and her father returned with the stone. That's it. And Red Skull is the Guardian on Formir, and is the only one who knows.
* Each of the pairings have a purpose in the film -- the Nebula/War Machine is the way to pull antagonist back into the film. And a way to re-visit dead characters from another angle. Gamora who was killed in Infinity War, and can revisit a different version of the characters. Just as they revisit different versions of Thanos and Nebula. (Took a long while to make it clear and clean and easy to understand. And continue the narrative thread from the previous screen.)
* "America's Ass" joke was a controversial joke among the writers and directors, who hotly debated its use.
* Each mission has a different tone. (They snuck into a theater -- to watch it with 1200 people -- and the most satisfying moment with the audience was Cap exiting the elevator by stating "hail hydra". The audience assumes there will be a fight, but instead they subvert it and do something different.)
* Robert Redford's last movie role and performance in a movie - is in Endgame, as described by himself on set at the time. (Unless he changes his mind.) We realized at that moment -- that Hulk was in the stairs...(in the writing room) and it was too stupid not to do it -- so Hulk kicks Tony, Tony loses the suitcase and Loki disappears with it. (Shows how you can't predict all the variables, and things can go wrong.)
* They discuss the Cap on Cap fight...and we're dealing how distinctively different over 11 years. The square version from 1940s, out of the water, Avenger's One, vs. the character 11 years later, after he's been through everything. This is the controversial joke -- "How often does a man have an opportunity to admire his own ass -- you have to take it."
* Reminds the audience of the 14.6 M different time lines that Doctor Strange looked at. And how Tilda Swinton's character could never see past her own death -- has to take Banner's word for it. Also raises stakes for Cap returning stones at the end.
* Shows how smart Thanos is...and how he figures out what happened in his own future.
*They filmed the Thor scenes in Durham Cathedral in Ireland, and during Infinity War filming. (They filmed the two films at the same time.) Thor's arc in the film is that he finally gets to be who was meant to be --- and is, as opposed to what his father or brother expected him to be. He's been striving to fulfill an idea of himself that he inherently somehow doesn't fit -- and it's only now that he realizes he doesn't have to do that and is determined his worthy.
* How they used music to play with tone and alter tone within the film. Show two different perspectives with Quill -- in his perspective, all is celebratory, he's cool, and dancing, going for the fortune, but shifting to War Machine and Nebula -- Quill's just a guy with a walkman on, singing out of tune.
* Development of Thanos -- who gets nothing but satisfaction from his own death, willing to die for his mission. Also showing that Gamora's reaction is different from his to what happened. This is right before Gamora fled from him.
* Show all the things that went wrong...and didn't expect..regarding mission.
* Cap and Tony pairing -- and how the whole series of films is about the Tony/Cap arcs overlapping and commenting on each other...one goes from selfish to selfless, while the other goes from selfless to becoming a bit more selfish, while both have to deal with their misconceived notions about defense, military, and war.
* The final Stan Lee performance, with his quintessential Stan Lee quote - "Nuff'Said" - which was his tag line.
* They discuss how they deliberately built each scene to further the next, and what was to come ahead. That they needed the Steve/Peggy moment, and the Tony/Howard moment -- also how it couldn't have been done without the CGI special effects. Ten years ago they couldn't have pulled it off. Also, how they managed to find a period in time in which Hank Pym, Howard Stark, and Peggy Carter were all at the same time and place.
* Also discuss how important the build up to Vormir was and that since for it to work, you needed two people who loved each other -- and out of the pairings this was the one. Act construction wise -- it always had to be the last sequence of Act II, can't have it interspliced with the others or intercut it with Tony/Cap, then the audience brain is focused more on Vormir.
* They had reshot. Originally had Thanos send a pretend army to push them, which was convoluted and didn't work. And took away the characters agency. So they rewrote and reshot, and focused on two people who really love each other -- and how they literally fight each other to see who gets to sacrifice themselves. Natasha summons up this is what she's been working up for -- it's her self-less act to bring back the community. Otherwise no chance. She's fighting to save her family. Natasha is NOT fighting to save Clint's family -- she's fighting to be the one to save "her" family, her community, for billions of people. And she's trying to erase the red in her ledger. It's not about saving Clint's family -- it's about saving her's. And they didn't do it lightly. Unfortunately had to go -- with the rest thing to happen in Act II. What separates the deaths in this movie from Infinity War, is that they are the choice of the characters -- Tony's choice, Natasha's choice, as opposed to Infinity War where it's all done to them by Thanos (Gamora, Loki, Vision) were all done to them.
* They also go out of their way to state it can't be undone, some of the deaths can't be undone.
* They take a scene to lay out the stakes of using the gauntlet. And they did go out of the way to show ...what happened to Thanos using the stones twice and why he's so easy defeated.
* Avengers conference room that appears to be nicely light is in reality an abandoned conference room in semi-abandoned Sheriton Hotel outside of the Atlanta Airport.
* They have Thanos destroy the Avenger's Home and blast the characters, to raise the stakes, before everyone pops back to help.
* The snap of the gauntlet had to have five years...but not as if the five years are gone. It's like a ghost story -- someone you lost five years suddenly is back. But it was important to keep the five years in place.
You get back what you lost...looks like the end of the film, but how do you complicate that? They are mindful about splitting characters in smaller groups to explore in more depth. Also by putting the characters in dire straits...causes the audience to forget that the other characters are back. And so when Cap is alone on the battle field, with everyone fallen...we think they are done for and surprised by everyone's return.
There was another version -- where Thanos opens a portal, and comes back from 2012 and throws Cap's head from 2012 onto the carpet -- but they decided that was a bridget too far and not to do that. It wouldn't work.
* They didn't have Thor have any weight loss because from their perspective he was fixed, and weight has nothing to do with it. Thor's back but hasn't changed -- with the old confidence intact.
* Looked at Once Upon a Time in West -- and they discuss the themes, before killing each other. So did something similar here.
* Each of the characters have grown in the last five years, eleven years...and that has stayed with them.
* Nebula -- two versions of oneself, and the one refusing to accept it...and can't see past Thanos, and is killed by herself.
* Fanservice -- it's not fanservice if it is within the natural arc of the character and been earned. You have to stick within the natural arc of the character.
* The spacing of the films was important to push the emotion and get the audience to think about the characters. And build tension. And how there were pay-off's and lines that couldn't have been paid off without the serialized nature of the films.
It also took a while to work out the big group scene...and what really worked is Cap is so used to going it alone -- and finds out he doesn't have to.
* In an early draft they had everyone with the Gauntlet, but instead went with four.
MEntion how Scarlet Witch is among the few on the field with a chance against Thanos. Also how Scarlet Witches power are all about her emotional past and pain of her past.
* The very last shot of the film was Iron Man's sacrifice (in their filming). And it was shot in a studio adajacent to the studio for Iron Man one.
* They also draw out Thanos death...to mislead, and also to echo Infinity War -- where he sits done on his porch.
* With Tony they thought through how he should look -- so it would telegraph..that he was done. Robert was adamant about no speeches or words after "And I'm Iron Man", that the character who had answer for everything and is constantly speaking..is done in silence. And the final scene is with her and him. They were shooting for a real honest human death...close-up on him. And it should be painful.
* They came up with the idea " I love you 3000" in post.
* The funeral shot is actually one take -- and they did it five to six times. So everyone is there. Also they deliberately had the camera wind you through the history of the Marvel franchise, and a homage to the comics takes on funerals -- where all the heroes gather.
* The reason Natasha didn't get the funeral scene in Endgame, because her character has another movie and more screen time, while Tony is done in the films and has no additional screen time. There's another movie for Natasha, so they are holding it off for her film. This is also true of Vision, who has more screen time coming up and his funeral is reserved to another film.
* The writers adore Thor and his arc to little bitty pieces. (sigh).
* Buckey has been clued in to Steve's decision. So Buckey knew, just not to the extent -- didn't know he was going to be on the bench.
Both Tony and Cap's endings were clear from the beginning. They knew. And knew as early as the first Avenger's film. And they filmed the Cap ending first -- it was one of the first scenes they filmed.
"Taking a commercial property and giving it an ending. Nothing has value unless it has an ending."
Giving the shield to Sam was never up for debate for the creators. Sam represents what Captain America should be or the idea behind our country, while Buckey represents the murkiness of what the country currently is. Sam represents what it could be. And what is the new identity he creates with it.
Cap's finale -- the door is still open here...that's important. Captain goes from "service" to self-actualization, and Tony goes from self-actualization to service.
And it is Tony who gives him this option -- and seeing what Tony does, gives him the ability to go there. He learns from Tony that it is okay to put down the shield and being a solider and just come home. To get a life."
- Endgame is also the endgame for the two writers and two directors. They are done after this.
- Apparently opening night -- when it got Robert Downey JR in the end credits - it got a standing ovation.
They filmed the inside scenes in Atlanta, apparently.
2. On the walk yesterday with Wales, she informed me that she was off social media - as in Twitter, Facebook, Instagram...due to the law firm she had worked for. Law firms when they defend or prosecute a law suite -- will demand a data dump from all the social media resources out there. Or access to them.
I told her this was why I tend to put stuff on DW, and am very careful on Facebook and Twitter.
She said that DW was not listed in the social media request list or access list. They didn't request stuff from it nor did they know it existed.
It's too far under the wire. The media isn't aware of it. There's no ads, no allowance for marketing. So as a result, neither media outlets nor law firms request access.
One of the many reasons, I deleted my live journal and moved over here -- was that the media was aware of LJ, and it had a lot of ads, and a lot of marketing popping up on it. Also, LJ made it clear that once you signed their user agreement they had rights to the content that you published on their service, and they could house that content in Russia (whereupon Russian copyright rules apply under the dictates of International Copyright Law.)
So bye, bye LJ. I don't like that level of attention. Much prefer staying beneath the wire.
Also, I don't write that much on FB or Twitter any longer. Not that I wrote that much on Twitter to begin with. I don't discuss politics at all.
At the moment, I'm using both to play in the X-men and GH fandoms, but more on the periphery...mainly because I think soap opera and comic book fans could very well be insane. It's not always clear.
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Date: 2019-08-11 07:57 pm (UTC)And I am happy to remain one of those who is glad Steve got to go back and be with Peggy.
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Date: 2019-08-11 08:56 pm (UTC)I've seen it done poorly. (*cough*StarWars*cough*). It's rare to see it done well, usually someone drops the ball along the way. This one was done well for the most part -- also cast extremely well. They have a list of A+ actors in almost every single role, which is something that the other superhero franchise films failed to do, also Star Wars didn't quite achieve. Casting is very important, it can break or make a movie.
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Date: 2019-08-11 09:08 pm (UTC)Dreamwidth, Pillowfort, and AO3 are my other accounts but there's nothing under my actual name.
Thanks for that rundown on the extra features! The discs I get from Netflix often don't include extras because they are "rental copies."
Robert Redford's last movie role and performance in a movie - is in Endgame, as described by himself on set at the time.
I noticed that, given that it came out after Old Man and the Gun. What I couldn't understand was why they bothered to pay him for that scene -- I don't know why Pierce would have shown up personally in that instance.
Reminds the audience of the 14.6 M different time lines that Doctor Strange looked at. And how Tilda Swinton's character could never see past her own death -- has to take Banner's word for it.
Huh, now that's an interesting point that slipped by me. How was she never able to see past her death but Strange could?
also how it couldn't have been done without the CGI special effects. Ten years ago they couldn't have pulled it off.
That's an odd thing to say, because they make both Howard and Peggy much younger than they should be -- which is in their 50s.
There's another movie for Natasha, so they are holding it off for her film. This is also true of Vision, who has more screen time coming up and his funeral is reserved to another film.
Interesting -- until next spring's shows then.
The writers adore Thor and his arc to little bitty pieces. (sigh).
*sigh* indeed.
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Date: 2019-08-11 11:46 pm (UTC)Yeah, the one's under my actual name -- I tend to be more careful with and don't post as much. I have maybe ten-fifteen tweets, and 25 followers. I follow 135, but now, I lurk and like things and block things. That's it. And no politics.
The evil marketing folks are encamped on Facebook and Twitter. They aren't really on Good Reads, and I'm not popular, so I'm fine. Also no one reads my word press blog...and I rarely post on it, so fine.
Here? I'm under another name, I can lock the posts -- and the marketing/ad people don't know or care about DW -- which is good.
Endgame commentary..
Date: 2019-08-12 12:06 am (UTC)2. Apparently Swinton's inability to see past her own death was something isolated to Swinton and the price of her power. Unlike Strange she used dark magic to obtain her powers, and this was her punishment. (I vaguely remember this from Doctor Strange). Strange was a bit purer with the power -- and had a conscience. He didn't kill, while Swinton's character had. Hence her comment that he was the best of us -- his Hippocratic Oath that I will do no harm and desire to heal others...sort of held sway over the need for power.
Anyway that appears to be the explanation. And it's repeated sort of in Endgame, where she tells Banner that Strange is doing neurosurgery, and when he tells her that Strange gave away the time stone -- she realizes she has no choice but to trust him, and tells Banner as much when she says "Strange was the best of us, there's no way he'd do that without a good reason.."
The whole thing, according to the commentary, is a result of the "characters" actions.
3.That's an odd thing to say, because they make both Howard and Peggy much younger than they should be -- which is in their 50s.
The writers, oddly, see them in their thirties. They even said so in the commentary. That Howard was much younger than his son in the scene (Downy Jr is 54, and Tony Stark is in his 50s) - and just about to have a child -- a man in his 30s. And they saw Peggy in her 30s as well.
LOL!. Apparently they forgot that both were twenties in the 1940s. This is why I got confused and kept thinking that it took place in the 1950s or 60s not the 70s. Because if Howard and Peggy are in their 20s in the 1940s, they have to be in their 50s in the 1970s. But I think the filmmakers didn't realize that...
Hank Pyme is also in his 20s in the 1970s...but that makes more sense.
There's a few flaws in the timing...the two glitches I caught were, that Peggy and Howard should have been much older in the 1970s, and how in the heck did Captain America live out his life in the same time line, without altering it.
(I think the writers got a bit confused with the whole time travel bit...because it is confusing or it will be answered in the Falcon and the Winter Solider limited series.)
4. According to the commentary on Natasha -- they aren't limited to a linear time line and can explore it there. Same with the Vision. Which is why we get the Clint/Wanda moment, but no funeral, because their screen time isn't over and they felt it would detract and be confusing.
Also I've read about the Black Widow film and WandaVision -- and that looks really interesting.
5. Alas, the writers like dumb humor. They thought the America's Ass joke was hilarious. And that all the Thor bits as the Big Lebowski are hilarious, and that Chris Helmsworth is a fantastic physical comedian. They also thought Quill was hilarious. (I found it annoying, but they love it. Reminds me of the Buffy writers who thought Tom Lenk was hilarious, I thought he was annoying.) The writers state that they could watch an entire season of Thor and his two friends stuck in Thor's place watching video games and kidding around with each other. In addition, they could watch multiple films with Thor and Quill banter.
Re: Endgame commentary..
Date: 2019-08-12 12:15 am (UTC)There's a few flaws in the timing...the two glitches I caught were, that Peggy and Howard should have been much older in the 1970s, and how in the heck did Captain America live out his life in the same time line, without altering it.
Well they must have realized she and Howard would be older, because even if they forgot about the entire Agent Carter series, they have Steve and Peggy dancing in what appears to be a 50s setting. How could she possibly have been anything but in her 50s in the 70s?
Re: Endgame commentary..
Date: 2019-08-12 01:07 am (UTC)They didn't though -- forget about the Agent Carter series -- because the only television actor/character they bring into the movie is from that series, Jarvis.
Re: Endgame commentary..
Date: 2019-08-12 04:17 pm (UTC)The reason, someone else suggested to me, was the idea that Steve could no longer feel passionate for a middle aged woman and so they didn't want to age Peggy up meaning that they also had to age Howard down. It wouldn't surprise me.
Re: Endgame commentary..
Date: 2019-08-12 04:48 pm (UTC)The reason, someone else suggested to me, was the idea that Steve could no longer feel passionate for a middle aged woman and so they didn't want to age Peggy up meaning that they also had to age Howard down. It wouldn't surprise me.
Except...he does show he cares for eighty year old Peggy. Also it's clear that Peggy is older than Steve from the beginning. I think it was a glitch. And had a lot to do with how they viewed the audience. I mean, Hayley Atwell is 37, Also they went out of their way to state it was important for Tony to be talking to his father, who is much younger than him at the time. Tony is 54 in Endgame, Howard is in his 30s. I think all the time tripping about confused the writers.
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Date: 2019-08-11 09:43 pm (UTC)He has one more big genre-related role coming up, for HBO's Watchmen reboot/reimagining. He'll be playing the President of the United States....
Robert Redford.
That's right--in the 2019 of the Watchmen's universe, Redford is the president.
(It'll be tough to get into character, but I think he can pull it off.)
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Date: 2019-08-11 11:40 pm (UTC)The commentators were funny -- they said, he told them it was his last film role, unless of course he changed his mind. Which he was more than welcome to do and they'd be really happy if he did...and they really hoped he would.
I'm wondering if this Redford's subtle way of making a political statement?
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Date: 2019-08-11 10:10 pm (UTC)