internal ponderings while on subway and a meme...

[shadowkat]

[Sorry, I'm sucking at coming up with good subject titles at the moment.]

Been pondering something ever since I finished reading my flist last night.
Made it back to November 20th. Quite entertaining actually. Two trends on my list: Everyone who saw the Mountain, hated it. But seemed to like Marsters performance more or less. Everyone who saw The Incredibles, enjoyed it, but had serious problems with the themes. Something else stuck out at me as well, besides the two trends. Or maybe my brain just picked up on it, because of a conversation I'd had this Sunday at a friend's baby shower.

The conversation was about television. A woman was informing me that she usually didn't read or watch anything unless someone else recommended it to her. Someone she trusted. She'd missed the first six episodes of Joan of Arcadia, because she had decided, without trying it out first, that it was crap. Then a friend, she trusted, convinced her otherwise, and voila! she's a fan. Same thing happened with Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Farscape.

I didn't think much of this conversation until last night, after I'd read my flist.

Two weeks ago I saw the movie "The Incredibles". I was ambivalent about seeing it and hoped the message would not grate on my nerves. I'd read in a Magazine review (Entertainment Weekly), that the director/writer's message seemed to be that "being super is a right and a responsibility". This line grated on me in a way that the reviewer, who adored the film, probably did not anticipate. It felt a little Ayn Randian to me. And I was not sure I could handle the film. Have become increasingly egalitarian as I grow older. So I went to the film with cjlasky with much trepidation. And very low expectations. Was pleasantly surprised. While there were hints of Ayn Rand throughout, I also saw things that counter-acted it. Such as valuing life is a strength not a weakness. And
finding a way to use your strengths in "your own way" not by emulating/copying others or attempting to get their validation by becoming them. As a result, I liked the Incredibles much more than I expected. Then I came online last night, and read several posts condemning the ideaology of the movie - to the extent in which I felt an odd sense of shame for enjoying it. Shame that I had not picked up those same themes. Was I anti-egalitarian because I enjoyed the Incredibles and didn't pick up on the themes? Did it say something about me?
Whose opinion on this is credible anyway?

This brings me to a question I have for anyone who is reading this (assuming of course anyone is):
"How much of your opinion regarding a work of art, book, play, tv show, movie,
or piece of music is influenced by other people?"

Here's a short meme:
1. Name a favorite show that you began watching because someone else
recommended it. How important is that show to you.
2. Name a tv show or book or movie that you persuaded someone else to try.
3. Name an episode of TV show, a movie, or a book - that you changed your mind about after reading a post or review or hearing a friend talk about it.
How did they change your mind? Did you like it and now have mixed feelings?
Did you hate it, and now like it?
4. Do you read reviews before buying a book, DVD, or seeing a movie or tv show?
If so, how do the reviews influence your choice? Or do you tend to veer away from reviews and test it for yourself?
5. Are there any movies or tv shows or books you would never admit to watching or reading, because you fear how others will regard you? (This is a tough question to answer for obvious reasons.)

Here's my answers:
1. Farscape. I admit I may not have given this series a second chance if it weren't for pumpkinpuss, redredshoes and buffyannatator's constant persuading. I fell in love with it. And am glad I gave it a second chance. The first go-around it seemed cheesy, now, years later, it seems ground-breaking.

(Buffy the Vampire Slayer - I began watching on my own and rarely told anyone about, because they made fun of me. Angel? Same situation. Although I did give up on it in Season 3 after the Darla storyline. Several people online got me re-hooked (Aresuthsa, Dochawk and masqthephilospher). cjlasky is persuading me to give Veronica Mars another chance. It's growing on me, even though Kristen Bell is no where near the actress Gellar was in my opinion. )

2. I persuaded my Mother to watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer, did it with the musical episode and the Buffy Marathon on F/X one Thanksgiving. And got a couple of people to try The Three Stigmata of Palmer K. Eldritch (they may resent me for that, not sure.)As well as a few for Farscape.

3. Lies My Parents Told Me. I actually enjoyed the episode when I first saw it. But when I went online, after reading a few posts, I felt ashamed for liking the bits I did. I honestly did not see what annoyed and angered others the first go around and felt ashamed for missing it. Weird response, I know. When I watched it a second and third time - I did see these things and decided I disliked the episode. How did they persuade me? Well through examples, several emotional ones that hit certain triggers in me. We all have our button issues and they managed to hit mine. So much so, that I felt defensive for liking the episode or seeing it differently. Now, I'm curious to know what I would have thought about the episode if I'd never gone online? Or what I'll think about it now, that I've had time to process all of this. And which opinion is the credible one? My initial impression or the latter one? Does it even matter?

Brings up another question - I wonder how many people who adored S7 were annoyed with those of us who didn't? Same thing with S6? If you are reading this, I'm curious, how much or how little did the negative reviews of S6 and S7 influence your own opinion and enjoyment? How did you deal with these reviews?


4. Used to read movie and book reviews, don't so much any more. It got to the point that the reviewer was telling me too much about the movie, tv show, or book - spoiling the experience of discovering these points on my own. We get so overwhelmed with information - and opinion - what to buy, what to watch, that sometimes I need a break from it. So I read them intermittently now. Most movies and tv shows - I decide to watch without knowing much more than what I've seen in commercials. That said, bad reviews of The Chronicles of Riddick and In The Cut stopped me from seeing either movie in the theater. I regret not seeing In The Cut. While Lost in Translation and Sky Captain and The World of Tomorrow are examples of movies I expected to enjoy based on reviews I'd read and despised. For some reason I reacted negatively to both of them - was deadly bored. I blame it on high expectations.

5. Any movies, books, or tv shows I'd never admit to watching?? Yes, several. And no I won't tell you what they are. (I'm insecure, I admit it. )

Comments

[oyceter]

I don't think you're necessarily missing anything or being anti-egalitarian for not seeing the same things I did in The Incredibles. I think much of it is how we filter works -- I know that I tend to read things from a gender perspective and not very much from a political one. And I know the feeling about feeling guilty for liking things. londonkds's posts on Fables are very intelligent as to the political landscape of the books, but it's something I never notice when I read them, so I feel a bit ashamed of myself for not seeing it either.

[superplin.livejournal.com]

I am too sick at the moment to give exhaustive answers to all your questions, but I only started watching BtVS because so many people I knew (in the US) were addicted to the show.

Since I started watching so late, even though I saw all the episodes in order from the beginning, I wasn't affected by online fandom until I caught up, which was in early S7. And I have to say that since I am in the minority who loved it, I have grown really defensive and reluctant to talk about it. I recognize that it has flaws, but in my view all the seasons are equally flawed, and I have often felt that I was essentially being called stupid because I failed to recognize that _______ (insert list of unforgivable sins) marked S7 as utter crap.

As you can probably tell, the animosity surrounding S7 (and S6, to a somewhat lesser degree) didn't exactly interfere with my enjoyment of the show, but it made me hesitant to express my opinion. It's also made me feel a lot more protective of the later seasons and given them even more emotional weight for me, to the point where I still haven't managed to open and rewatch my S7 DVDs that came about a week ago.

I liked discussing AtS because I enjoyed it a lot, but it didn't come with the same emotional attachment that BtVS had. That made it a lot easier to remain detached in discussions, and has allowed me to continue to enjoy even episodes that I liked but were trashed online.

So attachment definitely has its pros and cons.

On the whole, though, I've found that online participation has really enhanced my enjoyment of the shows by uncovering layers I hadn't noticed, bringing fresh perspectives and interpretations, and generally bringing them even more to life. Really, it's just the issue of S7 that has been touchy for me.

[scrollgirl.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I think you're right that we often let people's opinions influence our own -- perhaps more than we should. I know that if I hadn't read others' criticisms of S7, it's possible my own, vague dissatisfaction with Joss and his anti-patriarchy might have faded by now. But because other people confirmed and clarified my own misgivings, I'm more cognizant of S7's flaws.

Brings up another question - I wonder how many people who adored S7 were annoyed with those of us who didn't? Same thing with S6? If you are reading this, I'm curious, how much or how little did the negative reviews of S6 and S7 influence your own opinion and enjoyment? How did you deal with these reviews?

I can see people being annoyed with those of us who didn't like S7, especially if we continually criticised and seemed negative about it. I would totally understand and even sympathise -- it must be pretty frustrating when fandom is divided as much as it was in S7 (and S6). People "harshing your mellow" ;)

As much as I adored many individual eps and enjoyed the general themes, I did have misgivings about S7 and even S6. Finding that other fans had similar reactions was a great relief! Truthfully? I think everybody in fandom has moments of believing their opinion is the one that's trod upon, marginalised, vilified. I remember a discussion about it not long ago (forget whose LJ) -- that we all feel like minorities in fandom, even when our opinions/pairings/what-have-you is in reality one of the most popular. (Think the B/S vs B/A wars, and how each side believed they were the ones being bashed. What about poor Buffy/Oz, which barely has a handful of 'shippers? Hee!)

My meme is over here (http://www.livejournal.com/users/scrollgirl/162050.html). Very interesting questions!

[ann1962]

My initial watching of BTVS was all by my lonesome. Therefore, my responses were all mine. Likes, dislikes. I watched them out of order, and some seasons in rerun with other seasons concurrently. After we moved here, and could afford a computer, I realized there was a whole world out there talking about this stuff. Wow. Who knew? Then I found the board and realized there were intelligent people out there talking about this stuff. Wow squared. That only added to my understanding and enjoyment of the series.

I have had a weird response to watching BTVS. It is only upon thinking about it after, that I realized how many levels this stuff was on. While watching, not so much, as I was in the moment of the show. Because it allows so many interpretations, complexity, I have never had a problem with others reactions to the show. Some I agree with, others not so much. I never got annoyed at others reactions although I wondered what show they were watching sometimes lol.

S7 was another funny situation. It was on first run here at midnight on UPN on Fox. Fuzzy and blurry feed. I have kids, so I can rarely stay up that late. So S7 was a hit and miss proposition that I enjoyed. But I did keep thinking the pace was a little slower than previous season. I see why people lost interest; many continuing skinnying characters to deal with and the coming end.

I thought that LMPTM was incredible in its depth. It added controversial back-story that aided (IMO) extreme character development that needed to be added before the end of the series. The intercutting of the scenes was brilliant I think.