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shadowkat[Sorry, I'm sucking at coming up with good subject titles at the moment.]
Been pondering something ever since I finished reading my flist last night.
Made it back to November 20th. Quite entertaining actually. Two trends on my list: Everyone who saw the Mountain, hated it. But seemed to like Marsters performance more or less. Everyone who saw The Incredibles, enjoyed it, but had serious problems with the themes. Something else stuck out at me as well, besides the two trends. Or maybe my brain just picked up on it, because of a conversation I'd had this Sunday at a friend's baby shower.
The conversation was about television. A woman was informing me that she usually didn't read or watch anything unless someone else recommended it to her. Someone she trusted. She'd missed the first six episodes of Joan of Arcadia, because she had decided, without trying it out first, that it was crap. Then a friend, she trusted, convinced her otherwise, and voila! she's a fan. Same thing happened with Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Farscape.
I didn't think much of this conversation until last night, after I'd read my flist.
Two weeks ago I saw the movie "The Incredibles". I was ambivalent about seeing it and hoped the message would not grate on my nerves. I'd read in a Magazine review (Entertainment Weekly), that the director/writer's message seemed to be that "being super is a right and a responsibility". This line grated on me in a way that the reviewer, who adored the film, probably did not anticipate. It felt a little Ayn Randian to me. And I was not sure I could handle the film. Have become increasingly egalitarian as I grow older. So I went to the film with cjlasky with much trepidation. And very low expectations. Was pleasantly surprised. While there were hints of Ayn Rand throughout, I also saw things that counter-acted it. Such as valuing life is a strength not a weakness. And
finding a way to use your strengths in "your own way" not by emulating/copying others or attempting to get their validation by becoming them. As a result, I liked the Incredibles much more than I expected. Then I came online last night, and read several posts condemning the ideaology of the movie - to the extent in which I felt an odd sense of shame for enjoying it. Shame that I had not picked up those same themes. Was I anti-egalitarian because I enjoyed the Incredibles and didn't pick up on the themes? Did it say something about me?
Whose opinion on this is credible anyway?
This brings me to a question I have for anyone who is reading this (assuming of course anyone is):
"How much of your opinion regarding a work of art, book, play, tv show, movie,
or piece of music is influenced by other people?"
Here's a short meme:
1. Name a favorite show that you began watching because someone else
recommended it. How important is that show to you.
2. Name a tv show or book or movie that you persuaded someone else to try.
3. Name an episode of TV show, a movie, or a book - that you changed your mind about after reading a post or review or hearing a friend talk about it.
How did they change your mind? Did you like it and now have mixed feelings?
Did you hate it, and now like it?
4. Do you read reviews before buying a book, DVD, or seeing a movie or tv show?
If so, how do the reviews influence your choice? Or do you tend to veer away from reviews and test it for yourself?
5. Are there any movies or tv shows or books you would never admit to watching or reading, because you fear how others will regard you? (This is a tough question to answer for obvious reasons.)
Here's my answers:
1. Farscape. I admit I may not have given this series a second chance if it weren't for pumpkinpuss, redredshoes and buffyannatator's constant persuading. I fell in love with it. And am glad I gave it a second chance. The first go-around it seemed cheesy, now, years later, it seems ground-breaking.
(Buffy the Vampire Slayer - I began watching on my own and rarely told anyone about, because they made fun of me. Angel? Same situation. Although I did give up on it in Season 3 after the Darla storyline. Several people online got me re-hooked (Aresuthsa, Dochawk and masqthephilospher). cjlasky is persuading me to give Veronica Mars another chance. It's growing on me, even though Kristen Bell is no where near the actress Gellar was in my opinion. )
2. I persuaded my Mother to watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer, did it with the musical episode and the Buffy Marathon on F/X one Thanksgiving. And got a couple of people to try The Three Stigmata of Palmer K. Eldritch (they may resent me for that, not sure.)As well as a few for Farscape.
3. Lies My Parents Told Me. I actually enjoyed the episode when I first saw it. But when I went online, after reading a few posts, I felt ashamed for liking the bits I did. I honestly did not see what annoyed and angered others the first go around and felt ashamed for missing it. Weird response, I know. When I watched it a second and third time - I did see these things and decided I disliked the episode. How did they persuade me? Well through examples, several emotional ones that hit certain triggers in me. We all have our button issues and they managed to hit mine. So much so, that I felt defensive for liking the episode or seeing it differently. Now, I'm curious to know what I would have thought about the episode if I'd never gone online? Or what I'll think about it now, that I've had time to process all of this. And which opinion is the credible one? My initial impression or the latter one? Does it even matter?
Brings up another question - I wonder how many people who adored S7 were annoyed with those of us who didn't? Same thing with S6? If you are reading this, I'm curious, how much or how little did the negative reviews of S6 and S7 influence your own opinion and enjoyment? How did you deal with these reviews?
4. Used to read movie and book reviews, don't so much any more. It got to the point that the reviewer was telling me too much about the movie, tv show, or book - spoiling the experience of discovering these points on my own. We get so overwhelmed with information - and opinion - what to buy, what to watch, that sometimes I need a break from it. So I read them intermittently now. Most movies and tv shows - I decide to watch without knowing much more than what I've seen in commercials. That said, bad reviews of The Chronicles of Riddick and In The Cut stopped me from seeing either movie in the theater. I regret not seeing In The Cut. While Lost in Translation and Sky Captain and The World of Tomorrow are examples of movies I expected to enjoy based on reviews I'd read and despised. For some reason I reacted negatively to both of them - was deadly bored. I blame it on high expectations.
5. Any movies, books, or tv shows I'd never admit to watching?? Yes, several. And no I won't tell you what they are. (I'm insecure, I admit it. )
Been pondering something ever since I finished reading my flist last night.
Made it back to November 20th. Quite entertaining actually. Two trends on my list: Everyone who saw the Mountain, hated it. But seemed to like Marsters performance more or less. Everyone who saw The Incredibles, enjoyed it, but had serious problems with the themes. Something else stuck out at me as well, besides the two trends. Or maybe my brain just picked up on it, because of a conversation I'd had this Sunday at a friend's baby shower.
The conversation was about television. A woman was informing me that she usually didn't read or watch anything unless someone else recommended it to her. Someone she trusted. She'd missed the first six episodes of Joan of Arcadia, because she had decided, without trying it out first, that it was crap. Then a friend, she trusted, convinced her otherwise, and voila! she's a fan. Same thing happened with Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Farscape.
I didn't think much of this conversation until last night, after I'd read my flist.
Two weeks ago I saw the movie "The Incredibles". I was ambivalent about seeing it and hoped the message would not grate on my nerves. I'd read in a Magazine review (Entertainment Weekly), that the director/writer's message seemed to be that "being super is a right and a responsibility". This line grated on me in a way that the reviewer, who adored the film, probably did not anticipate. It felt a little Ayn Randian to me. And I was not sure I could handle the film. Have become increasingly egalitarian as I grow older. So I went to the film with cjlasky with much trepidation. And very low expectations. Was pleasantly surprised. While there were hints of Ayn Rand throughout, I also saw things that counter-acted it. Such as valuing life is a strength not a weakness. And
finding a way to use your strengths in "your own way" not by emulating/copying others or attempting to get their validation by becoming them. As a result, I liked the Incredibles much more than I expected. Then I came online last night, and read several posts condemning the ideaology of the movie - to the extent in which I felt an odd sense of shame for enjoying it. Shame that I had not picked up those same themes. Was I anti-egalitarian because I enjoyed the Incredibles and didn't pick up on the themes? Did it say something about me?
Whose opinion on this is credible anyway?
This brings me to a question I have for anyone who is reading this (assuming of course anyone is):
"How much of your opinion regarding a work of art, book, play, tv show, movie,
or piece of music is influenced by other people?"
Here's a short meme:
1. Name a favorite show that you began watching because someone else
recommended it. How important is that show to you.
2. Name a tv show or book or movie that you persuaded someone else to try.
3. Name an episode of TV show, a movie, or a book - that you changed your mind about after reading a post or review or hearing a friend talk about it.
How did they change your mind? Did you like it and now have mixed feelings?
Did you hate it, and now like it?
4. Do you read reviews before buying a book, DVD, or seeing a movie or tv show?
If so, how do the reviews influence your choice? Or do you tend to veer away from reviews and test it for yourself?
5. Are there any movies or tv shows or books you would never admit to watching or reading, because you fear how others will regard you? (This is a tough question to answer for obvious reasons.)
Here's my answers:
1. Farscape. I admit I may not have given this series a second chance if it weren't for pumpkinpuss, redredshoes and buffyannatator's constant persuading. I fell in love with it. And am glad I gave it a second chance. The first go-around it seemed cheesy, now, years later, it seems ground-breaking.
(Buffy the Vampire Slayer - I began watching on my own and rarely told anyone about, because they made fun of me. Angel? Same situation. Although I did give up on it in Season 3 after the Darla storyline. Several people online got me re-hooked (Aresuthsa, Dochawk and masqthephilospher). cjlasky is persuading me to give Veronica Mars another chance. It's growing on me, even though Kristen Bell is no where near the actress Gellar was in my opinion. )
2. I persuaded my Mother to watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer, did it with the musical episode and the Buffy Marathon on F/X one Thanksgiving. And got a couple of people to try The Three Stigmata of Palmer K. Eldritch (they may resent me for that, not sure.)As well as a few for Farscape.
3. Lies My Parents Told Me. I actually enjoyed the episode when I first saw it. But when I went online, after reading a few posts, I felt ashamed for liking the bits I did. I honestly did not see what annoyed and angered others the first go around and felt ashamed for missing it. Weird response, I know. When I watched it a second and third time - I did see these things and decided I disliked the episode. How did they persuade me? Well through examples, several emotional ones that hit certain triggers in me. We all have our button issues and they managed to hit mine. So much so, that I felt defensive for liking the episode or seeing it differently. Now, I'm curious to know what I would have thought about the episode if I'd never gone online? Or what I'll think about it now, that I've had time to process all of this. And which opinion is the credible one? My initial impression or the latter one? Does it even matter?
Brings up another question - I wonder how many people who adored S7 were annoyed with those of us who didn't? Same thing with S6? If you are reading this, I'm curious, how much or how little did the negative reviews of S6 and S7 influence your own opinion and enjoyment? How did you deal with these reviews?
4. Used to read movie and book reviews, don't so much any more. It got to the point that the reviewer was telling me too much about the movie, tv show, or book - spoiling the experience of discovering these points on my own. We get so overwhelmed with information - and opinion - what to buy, what to watch, that sometimes I need a break from it. So I read them intermittently now. Most movies and tv shows - I decide to watch without knowing much more than what I've seen in commercials. That said, bad reviews of The Chronicles of Riddick and In The Cut stopped me from seeing either movie in the theater. I regret not seeing In The Cut. While Lost in Translation and Sky Captain and The World of Tomorrow are examples of movies I expected to enjoy based on reviews I'd read and despised. For some reason I reacted negatively to both of them - was deadly bored. I blame it on high expectations.
5. Any movies, books, or tv shows I'd never admit to watching?? Yes, several. And no I won't tell you what they are. (I'm insecure, I admit it. )
no subject
Date: 2004-11-24 06:48 pm (UTC)I have had a weird response to watching BTVS. It is only upon thinking about it after, that I realized how many levels this stuff was on. While watching, not so much, as I was in the moment of the show. Because it allows so many interpretations, complexity, I have never had a problem with others reactions to the show. Some I agree with, others not so much. I never got annoyed at others reactions although I wondered what show they were watching sometimes lol.
S7 was another funny situation. It was on first run here at midnight on UPN on Fox. Fuzzy and blurry feed. I have kids, so I can rarely stay up that late. So S7 was a hit and miss proposition that I enjoyed. But I did keep thinking the pace was a little slower than previous season. I see why people lost interest; many continuing skinnying characters to deal with and the coming end.
I thought that LMPTM was incredible in its depth. It added controversial back-story that aided (IMO) extreme character development that needed to be added before the end of the series. The intercutting of the scenes was brilliant I think.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-24 09:26 pm (UTC)I love Farscape, too. Found that show on my own.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-25 09:44 pm (UTC)Here's the thing, I don't think you were. None of us were watching the same show. Oh it's the same show technically speaking, but through our heads, eyes, ears, mind, heart? Completely different. On ATPO there's two threads - one on souls and one on S7 - where you get two completely different perspectives. One loved the Season, loved where the canon changed and vampires became less monsterous.
The other was well the opposite. They weren't watching the same show - not really. We can't. Any more than I think the creator is making the same show as his actors - they are collaborating on it, but each brings a different lense. If you interview each person who worked on Buffy, separately, apart from each other, without allowing them access to see each other's commentary, I guarantee they will say contradictory things about the show, it's purpose, it's meaning, and what they thought it was about. Just as I'm convinced if you ask you family after you watch a TV show at night what they saw, each will come up with something different. Their mind will focus on something different in the scene. One person will focus on scenery, one maybe on plot, one on the songs in the background and a fourth maybe on the actors. So we don't see the same show. Not really. We can't.
no subject
Date: 2004-11-24 09:42 pm (UTC)Oh I'd agree. Except...there were emotional triggers in that show.
And I guess it depends on how you watch or experience something - from an emotional view or a more objective/intellectual one. And emotional triggers are well just that. My difficulty with Lies was largely due to two things: 1) Robin Wood - I reacted negatively to the character emotionally. He pushed my buttons. 2)the Oedipus Complex got on my nerves - not sure why, maybe because I'd seen too much of it in books, movies, and tv shows I'd seen and felt, oh no, not *this* again? (Overexposure to a certain theme. Also probably did not help that I'd overdosed on the Freudian/Jungian "Monster" Female/Anima theme in Undergrad. And thought the whole thing a tad obvious as a result. As oyceter states above, we do tend to look at things through our own filter. I can't help but wonder what my reaction would have been if a) I hadn't predicted they'd do this storyline way before they did it, b) hadn't overdosed on those themes in my 20s, and c) didn't have a knee-jerk emotional reaction to the Robin Wood character? I may never know. But it definitely had an effect on my second viewing and aided in the ability of others posts to persuade me to dislike the episode.)
When I started watching BTVS in 1997, I watched much as you described above - intermittently. I got hooked in S2, briefly scanned online websites for spoilers, but did not know or frequent posting boards. I was a huge B/A fan in 1997-1999. It wasn't until 2002 that I discovered posting boards. I came online in fall of 2001, hunting essays, spoilers, and fanfic - discovered that - but no way to interact with it. Then voila, MArch 2002 - I made my first post to
the Buffy Cross and Stake Spoiler Board. A poster there asked if he could transport one of my essays to another board, the ATPO board. I gave permission in exchange for a link to the board. A couple of months latter I was making posts directly to it. What happened to cause this gradual expansion? I think it had more to do with what was going on in my personal/professional life than BTVS. Something about BTVS spoke to what I was feeling at that specific time in my life.
And online I found a bunch of people who seemed, for whatever reason, to share those feelings and desires. When I attempted to describe the posting board experience to an offline friend, she exclaimed:"Oh, it's like group therapy." And in a way it was and still is. But not quite how she would consider it.