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Jun. 27th, 2005 06:30 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkatWriting chapter five of my novel feels a bit like I'm chipping away a huge block of marble. Chip. Chip. Chip. OR rather, word, word, word.
Bad day. Walking outside at lunch felt like walking underneath a leaking ceiling. So I sought shelter in the bookstore beneath the building where I work and hunted for the Guy Gavaerial Kay novels. Only found Vol 2 of the Finovar Tapestery series but not volumn 1. Apparently if I want to read this thing, I will have to order it off Amazon, or lug my lazy ass to the library and hunt it. No rush - I'm completely enraptured by George RR Martin's Game of Thrones at the moment. Bought Vol2 and Vol3 of the Martin series last week during lunch. I think it may be dangerous for me to have a bookstore this close by my workplace.
This morning I read the replies to my last post. Since I was at work, I did not attempt to reply to them for obvious reasons. Now? I'm not sure how to actually. Spent a good portion of my time - reacting, internally, as follows: "No, no, no, that's not what I meant. You missed the entire point of my post. ARRRGH!" or "Yeah, I agree with you but what does that have to do with what I posted?" or "Shit, I did a lousey job of making myself clear, didn't I?" Which, ahem, taught me something. Probably should have figured this out by now but - People have a crazy tendency to read whatever they want to in someone else's writing. We spend a great deal of time talking about writing carefully, but I'm not sure people always read that carefully. I know I don't -heck, that's part of the reason this was a bad work day. Something I did not take the time to read carefully - came back and bit me in the ass. So trust me, I know how important it is to read carefully.
The other thing it taught me, which I already knew, but it helps to be reminded, is this: People bring their own host of experiences to every interaction regardless of what it is. And everyone's experiences are unique.
Where conflict or debate comes in - is when people's experiences of reality conflict with each other. In other words - if you fell in love with an older man at the age of 15, married him, lived a happy life then years later came on the internet and met a person who was molested by an older man at the age of 15, suffice it to say - your experiences may be in conflict. That's an extreme example - but the best I can come up with at the moment.
Some of the posts reminded me a little of a discussion in the movie Kinsey, about the scientist who created the famous Kinsey Sex Report. The Kinsey Sex Report - was a report published in the 1950s/60s (I think) about the sexual activities of men and women. What's interesting is Kinsey had no troubles getting funding for doing a report on men, was actually congratulated for it, but got his funding yanked when he did it on women. At any rate - the discussion was as follows:
Kinsey: I want to do an in depth study on male and female sexual behaviors.
Rockfeller Research Foundation Chief: Okay. But you're focusing on their normal sexual behaviors right? I mean nothing perverse?
Kinsey looks confused.
Wales who is watching the film with me turns to me and says, quite aptly: Kinsey doesn't believe there is such as thing as "normal" sexual behavior.
Me: And he would be right.
That was what he proved with the Kinsey Report. There is no such thing as "normal" sexual behavior. Actually I don't believe there is such a thing as normal period. But that's a whole other debate.
What there is - is socially acceptable behavior and convention. The word convention, or rather my use of the word convention, should not be confused with normal, especially since I do not personally believe there is such a thing. Unless of course you define normal as socially acceptable behavior or whatever trend that society is currently into. And you'd have to be a marketing person/ad guy to keep up with them. We're in a manic phase at the moment, the damn trends are coming at us right and left like baseballs, repeating themselves. One of the big trends - is heterosexual women fantazing about heterosexual or bisexual men having sex with each other and heterosexual men fantazing about heterosexual/bisexual women having sex with one another. Note I say heterosexual/bisexual, not homosexual, if they are homosexual - they can't come back and do it with person doing the fantasizing. People are anything if not selfish. Because this is currently a "trend" and used repeatedly in fanfic, romance novels, tv shows, and movies - I don't think it's kinky. I think it's pretty ordinary. Also it's not a new trend.
Convention has numerous definitions in the dictionary. The one I'm using is (just so we're all clear) - "following accepted practice, customary". For me, customary practice - is basically anything you can find in mainstream bookstores, toy stores, and blockbuster. Stuff you do not have to hunt for. Convention? Stuff I've seen repeatedly on network TV shows, romance novels, etc.
Concerning sex - pretty much all of it is kinky depending on your point of view. When I was 18, I thought a blow-job was kinky. Now it seems sort of conventional. Same with going down on a woman. Sorry for the lingo, but sometimes it works if you're blunt. Bondage? Yeah, kinky. Man dominant, woman submissive? Not so much - unless of course you're doing the bondage thing, but I'm talking generally here not in S&M lingo, which I really can't speak to since I'm not versed in S&M. Get in enough trouble trying to discuss what I do know about. So what I mean is the old fashioned missionary position vs. the woman on top position - just to be clear. If you throw in handcuffs? Sure that's kinky. But that's kinky regardless of who's wearing them. Did read one thing where the two were handcuffed together - still have troubles envisioning it. Some fanfic writers, methinks, need a course in anatomy. Not sex. Anatomy.
Trust me - people can write quite well about sex without ever experiencing it directly. Just because you can't, does not mean someone else can't. One thing I've learned :Do not project your limitations/experiences on others - always gets one in trouble. (She says while she proceeds to do just that. What me, a hypocrite? Nooo...)
At any rate - my point, which I made badly, was: What I see less of on tv, romance novels, fantasy novels, etc right now - is a strong woman controlling things. That could just be me. But I've had to REALLY hunt for it. (And please don't quote back to me Desperate Housewives, Medium, Veronica Mars, Gilmore Girls, or Alias as examples - they aren't women in control of anything in my opinion. The closest I've come to strong women on TV lately are: Farscape, The Closer, and BattleStar Galatica and that is it.)
What unnerves me when I've read Buffy fanfic (and I'm not singling anyone out here - from 2002 -2005 I read more buffy fanfic writers than I care to list) is how many writers have felt the need to punish, degrade, or remove in some way shape or form the female heros power - making Spike the hero or Spike the one in control or the sympathetic party. I understand why some of them do it, no problems with that, really - but it is the way fanfic writers do it that unnerves me. Why for instance do so many writers feel the need to make Buffy pregnant with Spike's baby? Why do so many of them want to have her get off on him biting and drinking from her - draining her power? (As if this is kinky - it's not, somewhat conventional actually. Laurell K. Hamilton, Ann Rice, and half the romance novelists who write Vampire stories do it. ) Why does Spike take a leadership role above her? Why is she put in the domestic/traditional role? It's not kinky that women writers are doing this - because this is actually conventional romance. Most gothic and bodice-ripper romance novels I read in the 70's up until the early 80's fit this. One even had a girl desperado who gave it up to be the lady wife of a count, because she fell in love. Now, don't misunderstand me, I don't mean to say there's anything wrong with this. Heck, I have these fantasies, as a single working woman. But they are conventional ones. Not very original. What throws me is why there aren't more fantasies or stories about the gal in control - the gal becoming and staying the hero? Say what you will about Season 7 BTVS, but I give Whedon credit for doing one thing right, Buffy did not ride off in the sunset with some guy. (Yeah, I know, he ruined it in Angel S5 but let's forget that for a sec.) She did not need to be defined by him. She was perfectly happy to be single. That is rare to see on TV or in books. There've been a few - My Brilliant Career by Miles Franklin. But very few.
okay...ran out of words again. Need to eat. Want to read George RR Martin.
Maybe I should delete this? Oh well... do with it what you will. Not sure how much sense it made. Tough day, like I said. And most of this? Internal monologues and rants I had during it.
Bad day. Walking outside at lunch felt like walking underneath a leaking ceiling. So I sought shelter in the bookstore beneath the building where I work and hunted for the Guy Gavaerial Kay novels. Only found Vol 2 of the Finovar Tapestery series but not volumn 1. Apparently if I want to read this thing, I will have to order it off Amazon, or lug my lazy ass to the library and hunt it. No rush - I'm completely enraptured by George RR Martin's Game of Thrones at the moment. Bought Vol2 and Vol3 of the Martin series last week during lunch. I think it may be dangerous for me to have a bookstore this close by my workplace.
This morning I read the replies to my last post. Since I was at work, I did not attempt to reply to them for obvious reasons. Now? I'm not sure how to actually. Spent a good portion of my time - reacting, internally, as follows: "No, no, no, that's not what I meant. You missed the entire point of my post. ARRRGH!" or "Yeah, I agree with you but what does that have to do with what I posted?" or "Shit, I did a lousey job of making myself clear, didn't I?" Which, ahem, taught me something. Probably should have figured this out by now but - People have a crazy tendency to read whatever they want to in someone else's writing. We spend a great deal of time talking about writing carefully, but I'm not sure people always read that carefully. I know I don't -heck, that's part of the reason this was a bad work day. Something I did not take the time to read carefully - came back and bit me in the ass. So trust me, I know how important it is to read carefully.
The other thing it taught me, which I already knew, but it helps to be reminded, is this: People bring their own host of experiences to every interaction regardless of what it is. And everyone's experiences are unique.
Where conflict or debate comes in - is when people's experiences of reality conflict with each other. In other words - if you fell in love with an older man at the age of 15, married him, lived a happy life then years later came on the internet and met a person who was molested by an older man at the age of 15, suffice it to say - your experiences may be in conflict. That's an extreme example - but the best I can come up with at the moment.
Some of the posts reminded me a little of a discussion in the movie Kinsey, about the scientist who created the famous Kinsey Sex Report. The Kinsey Sex Report - was a report published in the 1950s/60s (I think) about the sexual activities of men and women. What's interesting is Kinsey had no troubles getting funding for doing a report on men, was actually congratulated for it, but got his funding yanked when he did it on women. At any rate - the discussion was as follows:
Kinsey: I want to do an in depth study on male and female sexual behaviors.
Rockfeller Research Foundation Chief: Okay. But you're focusing on their normal sexual behaviors right? I mean nothing perverse?
Kinsey looks confused.
Wales who is watching the film with me turns to me and says, quite aptly: Kinsey doesn't believe there is such as thing as "normal" sexual behavior.
Me: And he would be right.
That was what he proved with the Kinsey Report. There is no such thing as "normal" sexual behavior. Actually I don't believe there is such a thing as normal period. But that's a whole other debate.
What there is - is socially acceptable behavior and convention. The word convention, or rather my use of the word convention, should not be confused with normal, especially since I do not personally believe there is such a thing. Unless of course you define normal as socially acceptable behavior or whatever trend that society is currently into. And you'd have to be a marketing person/ad guy to keep up with them. We're in a manic phase at the moment, the damn trends are coming at us right and left like baseballs, repeating themselves. One of the big trends - is heterosexual women fantazing about heterosexual or bisexual men having sex with each other and heterosexual men fantazing about heterosexual/bisexual women having sex with one another. Note I say heterosexual/bisexual, not homosexual, if they are homosexual - they can't come back and do it with person doing the fantasizing. People are anything if not selfish. Because this is currently a "trend" and used repeatedly in fanfic, romance novels, tv shows, and movies - I don't think it's kinky. I think it's pretty ordinary. Also it's not a new trend.
Convention has numerous definitions in the dictionary. The one I'm using is (just so we're all clear) - "following accepted practice, customary". For me, customary practice - is basically anything you can find in mainstream bookstores, toy stores, and blockbuster. Stuff you do not have to hunt for. Convention? Stuff I've seen repeatedly on network TV shows, romance novels, etc.
Concerning sex - pretty much all of it is kinky depending on your point of view. When I was 18, I thought a blow-job was kinky. Now it seems sort of conventional. Same with going down on a woman. Sorry for the lingo, but sometimes it works if you're blunt. Bondage? Yeah, kinky. Man dominant, woman submissive? Not so much - unless of course you're doing the bondage thing, but I'm talking generally here not in S&M lingo, which I really can't speak to since I'm not versed in S&M. Get in enough trouble trying to discuss what I do know about. So what I mean is the old fashioned missionary position vs. the woman on top position - just to be clear. If you throw in handcuffs? Sure that's kinky. But that's kinky regardless of who's wearing them. Did read one thing where the two were handcuffed together - still have troubles envisioning it. Some fanfic writers, methinks, need a course in anatomy. Not sex. Anatomy.
Trust me - people can write quite well about sex without ever experiencing it directly. Just because you can't, does not mean someone else can't. One thing I've learned :Do not project your limitations/experiences on others - always gets one in trouble. (She says while she proceeds to do just that. What me, a hypocrite? Nooo...)
At any rate - my point, which I made badly, was: What I see less of on tv, romance novels, fantasy novels, etc right now - is a strong woman controlling things. That could just be me. But I've had to REALLY hunt for it. (And please don't quote back to me Desperate Housewives, Medium, Veronica Mars, Gilmore Girls, or Alias as examples - they aren't women in control of anything in my opinion. The closest I've come to strong women on TV lately are: Farscape, The Closer, and BattleStar Galatica and that is it.)
What unnerves me when I've read Buffy fanfic (and I'm not singling anyone out here - from 2002 -2005 I read more buffy fanfic writers than I care to list) is how many writers have felt the need to punish, degrade, or remove in some way shape or form the female heros power - making Spike the hero or Spike the one in control or the sympathetic party. I understand why some of them do it, no problems with that, really - but it is the way fanfic writers do it that unnerves me. Why for instance do so many writers feel the need to make Buffy pregnant with Spike's baby? Why do so many of them want to have her get off on him biting and drinking from her - draining her power? (As if this is kinky - it's not, somewhat conventional actually. Laurell K. Hamilton, Ann Rice, and half the romance novelists who write Vampire stories do it. ) Why does Spike take a leadership role above her? Why is she put in the domestic/traditional role? It's not kinky that women writers are doing this - because this is actually conventional romance. Most gothic and bodice-ripper romance novels I read in the 70's up until the early 80's fit this. One even had a girl desperado who gave it up to be the lady wife of a count, because she fell in love. Now, don't misunderstand me, I don't mean to say there's anything wrong with this. Heck, I have these fantasies, as a single working woman. But they are conventional ones. Not very original. What throws me is why there aren't more fantasies or stories about the gal in control - the gal becoming and staying the hero? Say what you will about Season 7 BTVS, but I give Whedon credit for doing one thing right, Buffy did not ride off in the sunset with some guy. (Yeah, I know, he ruined it in Angel S5 but let's forget that for a sec.) She did not need to be defined by him. She was perfectly happy to be single. That is rare to see on TV or in books. There've been a few - My Brilliant Career by Miles Franklin. But very few.
okay...ran out of words again. Need to eat. Want to read George RR Martin.
Maybe I should delete this? Oh well... do with it what you will. Not sure how much sense it made. Tough day, like I said. And most of this? Internal monologues and rants I had during it.
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no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 08:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 08:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 09:11 am (UTC)Buffy at least seemed to care a bit, the rest of them... Whedon at least managed one thing with that finale, he made sure that I never ever want to see any of the scoobs ever again.
no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 09:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-06-28 03:17 pm (UTC)LOL! Same way. I rewatched a good portion of that season recently and find if you skip some of the episodes and certain sections, the themes come across a lot clearer.