(no subject)

[shadowkat]

I really shouldn't do this, there are so many other things I need to do right now. Like fix myself lunch and finish writing my book. Take a walk. But what the hell.

Why do writers of fan fic and fans make such a big deal about canon and get all hot and bothered when the series that they are watching or books they are reading don't fit the fanfic they've created?

If you were that good at guessing what would come next in the story, then why bother reading or watching it? When stories become predictable like that for me, I get bored and watch something else.

Right now the ipod is playing my Madonna CD - I got tired of it going wonky every time I tried to control it's playing choices. So am letting it do whatever it wants at the moment.

There are two excellent posts on lj that explain the television writing and filming process - one is by tightropegirl commenting on House. The other is an interview with Stephen DeKnight regarding the writing and filming process behind the Buffy S6 episode, Dead Things. I recommend people who bash television writers read these two posts carefully. Afterwards, you'll probably want to slap yourself repeatedly in the forehead for being such a nitwit. But it is worth it.

Here's the links: Stephen Denight Interview

And...

Filming and writing an episode of House or Smallville

Imagine working 14 hours a day. Having 3 days to deliver a script. Having it torn to pieces by twenty people. Having 15 minutes to rehearse your lines, memorize them, and deliver them in front of a camera on mark. Imagine doing it after sitting around on a cold set with only one bathroom for 10 hours.

Then imagine after you are done, going on the internet and reading someone bash your work online. Or question your work. Or bash your best friend's work - when you watched them sweat bullets over it.

And you think your job sucks.

Comments

It's about the fantasy

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

I know, for me, writing AtS Season 6 and The Destroyer were a way of coping with a serious loss I felt after the cancellation of AtS. I wanted more show, more canon show; the WB took that away from me, and since I don't read fanfic myself, that couldn't replace the show. If the Buffy comics had been published right away, I would have embraced them.

But they weren't, they weren't even planned, so I started writing fanfic myself to fill that gap, staying as true to canon as I could, writing in script screenplay format, casting "actors" in the roles, and in that way, finding closure in the arcs of characters I felt canon left unfinished (Connor and Angel in particular). For me, writing the fanfic literally helped me "heal" the wounds of that early cancellation (and I'm not overstating with that analogy) and gave me an outlet for my writing (really, the first time I've ever let people other than writing class cohorts read my writing).

But the most important part of the fun for me was fantasizing that what I was writing really *was* what happened next. And I was *allowed* that fantasy, because even though I knew I wasn't in charge of canon, the shows were gone and my take on it was as good as anyone else's. And Joss encouraged that with the cliffhanger ending he gave to season 5, even knowing it was going to be cancelled, and his encouragement to fans to write fanfic.

Now I'm not blaming Joss. He didn't cancel the show, and he has every right to find other outlets to continue the stor(ies). It just bursts the little bubble of the fantasy that fueled my fanfic when he writes a post-Chosen Buffy comic or a post-NFA Angel comic that contradicts my story in some major way. Because I'm not a fanfic writer, or I wasn't, before AtS was cancelled. I wrote for the sole purpose of seeing that story continued, and finished. And now that he's doing that himself (in the case of Buffy, and perhaps in the future, Angel), I have no reason to continue my story. And that's disappointing, because I was having fun.

So it helps to whistle little tunes while plugging my ears and covering my eyes, ignoring the comics, or treating them as "not canon" until my tale is finished.

I know everyone has their own reasons for writing fanfic; those were mine, and maybe I'll find other reasons, but I doubt it. When I'm done TD and AtS6, I'll go back to original fiction that can't be Jossed.

Re: It's about the fantasy

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

But why can't you have both?

Your fantasy and the comics at the same time? Why can't there be more than one possible story happening? Why does it just have to be the one?

It's like the writers who wrote the series - they all saw the characters and what was happening differently.

I don't understand why only one must exist for people? I don't get that.

Why can't you continue writing your fanfic and enjoying your fantasy, and read Whedon's version and accept they could be different?

Re: It's about the fantasy

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Because the other one's written by Joss.

Re: It's about the fantasy

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Thank you for taking the time to explain. I've thought about it and I think I understand it now.

It's complicated. It's partly like what people felt when Lucas did the Star Wars prequels. It's also the end of the fantasy of being the ones who are writing. The game. How can you continue role playing - when in reality Whedon is writing his own script with Brian Lynch?

I can see that.

Selfishly, perhaps, I'm happy Whedon's doing it - because I craved Whedon's take, and I adore Brian Lynche's perspective (Spike:Asylum is the best thing I've read post Angel S5) - so getting an Angel S6 and a Buffy S8 in comics form with these writers for me is a dream come true. It's my fantasy come to life.

The nice thing about comics though --- unlike movies and tv shows is you can ignore them easier. ;-)

Re: It's about the fantasy

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

The nice thing about comics though --- unlike movies and tv shows is you can ignore them easier. ;-)

Yep. I'm truly in a schitzophrenic state. My first reaction upon hearing about the Buffy comic was total denial and a refusal to read them or acknowledge their existence. I hadn't realized until that moment how much the fantasy of "writing canon" was figuring into my reasons for writing fanfic.

But of course there's another part of me that craves new story from the storyteller himself. That's the part of me that was crushed when AtS was cancelled. I don't really need new Buffy, seven seasons and "Chosen" was closure enough for me (although I'm always a reader/viewer who asks, "So what happened next?") But new AtS? *whimpers*

Re: It's about the fantasy

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I'm right there with you on ATS, I crave more of it than BTVs to be honest.
I was satisfied with how BTVS had ended and thought Chosen worked. So didn't really need to have more episodes or comics. Yet at the same time, am curious to know what happened next. Because I had fallen in love with Whedon's characters...in a way I'd never really fallen before.

But ATS...please, I want to know what Whedon was going do after that Alley.
I knew what other fans came up with, I know what I came up with. But what would Whedon have done??? Who lived? Who died? I'm assuming Spike and Angel lived, since they've done several comics after the fact - but its never clear in IDW's comics when the action is taking place, before or after Not Fade Away? And of course, it's not really "canon" so may not matter.

Yes...I have to admit, I still want to know what happened next. Enough, to find myself buying comics again after swearing off the habit. Damn Whedon and his co-horts. Comics is one of those habits that will nickle and dime you to death, not to mention take up necessarily storage space...and I have 0 to spare.

Re: It's about the fantasy

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

What miffs me is that now they're going to do this AtS Season 6 comic and so their decision to kill off Wesley is really, really dumb in retrospect. Joss is on record as saying he would not have done that if they hadn't been cancelled.

I'm sure he'll find some way to bring Wesley back, though. It's the Buffyverse, after all.

Re: It's about the fantasy

[(Anonymous)]

Didn't even think of that, but yes, agreed - while having Wes die in NFA was perfect symmetry, (Fred's death and Wes's - the visual shots are almost identical between the two deaths) - I would have preferred to see him again.

He probably will since Wes was one of Whedon's favorite characters as well as ours. And hey, you figured out a way to have Wes come back, why can't Whedon? One of the nice things about the comic/sci-fantasy genre - people can come back from the dead.

It is just a comic book after all. ;-)

Re: It's about the fantasy

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

That was me. Apparently it didn't recognize my sign-in name at work.

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

I had read tightropegirl's post, just as I always read Jane Espenson's and I love the insights into script writing (it really adds to my appreciation of everything I see on TV). But I certainly would have missed the Stephen DeKnight Interview, thank you so much for the link!

The interview really got in there and asked wonderful questions, and of course it is interesting that DeKnight didn't really 'get' the questions (because from his POV Buffy was the character of interest and Spike's character was only there to bring out things in her). Could you imagine the freak out that would have happened in the Spuffy circles if Buffy's beating of Spike had left him an even bigger bloody wreck than Glory's had done the year before? LOL

I'm rewatching a lot of Buffy right now, last night I was sitting in the dark watching 'Hush' and just loving every single frame of it again. I don't think I will ever get tired of this series.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Neither will I. ;-)

[wenchsenior.livejournal.com]

Considering the constraints under which tv production happens, it's a wonder there is ANY decent tv to watch, IMO.

Thanks for that link.

And I join you in perplexity about the wailing over fanfic differing from canon or, alternatively, being "Jossed". With a universe that is this complex, there's room for a multitude of versions and variations. And unlike many creators, Joss has essentially given his blessing to fanfic. I accept the show as canon, of course, but I have what I consider a 'better' version of Season 7 of BtVS in my head, and I have my own ideas about how certain things went down post-show(s) that won't necessarily align with Joss' new comics. It just extends the universe in a multitude of possible directions, I think. Makes it more rich, not less.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Your welcome. ;-)

I sort of wish I could have posted it to a thread on whedonesque where someone bashed Marti Noxon (that's a fan favorite past-time apparently, due to some ill-advised interviews during S6 - Marti became the scapegoat for anyone who did not like how the story went in the latter seasons...fan isn't a derivative of the word fanatic for nothing. ;-) ) The bash was so bad it got a response from a lurking Whedon - who stated that the poster was uninformed and rude.
(True.) Stating that the bits they disliked weren't Marti's ideas but his. Then the nitwit decided to yell at whedon. LOL! Hello, the site is called whedonesque - that' s just asking to be banned.

Anywho...I agree, it is amazing that good shows get produced. Proves the production of art is a magic act.

I think I'm beginning to understand the wailing now. It's a somewhat selfish desire to preserve one's dreams of what the creator would do next. Sort of like speculating what will come next, only to be disappointed when it isn't what you expected - or when you buy a ticket for the lottery and lose. The dreams based on the possibility of winning dashed. We all do it, to some extent. I remember being seriously disappointed in the Star Wars prequels and wishing Lucas had never bothered, that I could preserve in my head what might have been. Truth is, I can still preserve it to some extent of course, but it is tainted now by what Lucas came up with. This is the fatal flaw in loving anything too hard and too selfishly.

Whedon - lucky for me - is telling the story I want him to. So it's not the same for me with Whedon that it was with Lucas. All I want from Whedon's tale is for the continuing journey of a struggling female hero with the weight of the world on her shoulders. The female version of Van Helsing and Spiderman and well, Indiana Jones. And he's giving me that. And all I want from the writers regarding Spike - is the continuing struggle of a flawed man to become a good person.
So my expectations are fairly slight. And fanfic has not filled the gap for me or satisfied me like it has for others, I did not like any of the virtual S6 and S8 fics fansites were doing. So for me, somewhat selfishly perhaps, I craved the real thing - a story from the writers who created the characters or at least had a hand in their creation. That doesn't mean I haven't read or tried my own hand at writing fanfic. Just that if I had to choose between the two, I'd want the original writer's take. Lucky for me I don't.

I think the wailings are less about the fic and more about the individuals own fantasy of being the true writer of the next chapter - being discovered by Whedon, being, well like Brian Lynch. I think if I had invested a lot of time and effort in writing a S6 Virtual Angel Season and heard Whedon decided to give the honor of writing the real one as a comic to Brian and be his co-writer, I'd be incredibly bummed and envious of Mr. Lynch. But I haven't - so instead, I'm thrilled, selfishly perhaps, by Lynch writing that season - because of all the fanfic and comics I've read featuring Spike since the show ended, Brian Lynch's take in Spike: Asylum was far and away the best written and the closest to the character that I fell in love with - the fact that Whedon felt the same way, thrills me even more, because it means I'll get to see that character again. If that makes sense.

Sort of brain dead from analyzing video game contracts all day. But wanted to respond.