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[shadowkat]

Hot day. Busy day. But not as head-ache inducing as yesterday. Mostly because I was able to get things done without chasing my tail. Okay, I exaggerate about it being hot, by Kansas City and California standards? It's relatively mild. Heck by Hilton Head and Florida standards it's mild.
We reached 85-89 degrees. Big whoop. That's about 26 degrees Celusis - I think. And there was a nice breeze. It was actually pleasant. In which case...forget the hot remark altogether.

I'm certain there's something else I should be doing at the moment...but my mind is a blank. Probably making dinner or working on my novel - now that I've figured out how to fix the bits that need fixing before I write a synopsis and send it out to publishers. The internet, particularly blogging, is a great procrastination tool.

Enjoyed aspects of Game of Thrones this week but once again was struck by what they left out of the series and what they left in. Which I won't go into.

What I liked?

* Ayra's scenes. Particularly how Surian showed that speed and fast reflexes serve you better than brute strength. Yet another metaphor regarding mental acumen over brute strength. Ayra, who is smaller, not as pretty, and not as mature as Sansa, manages to escape - using her wits. Sansa - who is a deluded romantic nitwit that has spent far too much time reading stories about knights and ladies or daydreaming about them for her own good. Although I did feel sorry for her here.

*Jon Snow and Samwell Tary's scenes. Samwell is amongst my favorite characters. And we start to get a little of the magical surrealism that exists in the novels - with the horrific Wights.
Osha also discusses them with Bran...who thinks of them as stories. Osha, the wildling woman from beyond the wall, states that his brother's army is marching in the wrong direction. The real enemy lies to the north, not to the South. And yes, Jon needs to learn how to control his temper.

*Charles Dance...is having fun as Tywin Lannister. And reminding me of how good an actor he truly is. His scene with Tyrion was just delicious. Almost as good as his scene with Jamie last week. Tyrion apparently isn't that pleased with the turn of events, even if they are in his favor (well sort of). I did like these lines:

Tywin: "Robb Stark will turn tail and run back to the North, unseasoned..."

Tyrion: Maybe. He came across as fairly belligerant when I last saw him. You'd like him.

*Actually any scene with Tyrion is fun. Peter Dinklage is clearly in heaven. This may be the best role he's had since The Station Agent. I particularly liked his by-play with Bronn.
Yes, well, if you find someone who wants to murder me, talk to me first, I'm likely to outbid them. Or I'm not really interested in your honor or friendship qualities, just your murderous ones.
Tyrion clearly has no illusions when it comes to Bronn.

*Varys and Ned...Varys informing Ned that he's been an idiot from the start. To give Varys credit - he did try to warn Ned. Granted he was a bit subtle about it, just like Little Finger was. With Ned, you need to be more than subtle. The man is too pig-headed to get a hint. Had a best friend when I was a kid, who whenever she wanted something and I was being annoyingly oblivious - would say repeatedly "hint, hint". Suffice it to say, short of saying "hint, hint" - I doubt Ned would have figured it out. Did feel sort of sorry for him though...Scean Bean looked so adorably belleaugered.

[Not a fan of the Dani scenes. Not only are they blatantly racist but they appear to be taken out of either a B movie fantasy flick, starring Arnold Schwazzernegger, circa 1980 or a Bodice Ripper fantasy romance novel featuring Fabio on the cover. I remember liking this better in the book - granted, the book I'm most likely thinking of is Book 3 - Storm of Swords - the Dofraki bit sort of disappears by then. So if you are hating it, too? No worries...it ends. If you love it? Go rent Conan the Barbarian.]



[As an completely esoteric and non-sequitor aside? This is how you know that you watched a certain tv series one too many times - when you read a writer's interview and think, no, you idiots, the line - "I may be love's bitch, but at least I'm man enough to admit it" - wasn't from Fool for Love, nor was it written by Doug Petrie, it was from Lover's Walk by Dan Vebber, who was a hired gun.

Sigh. I'm not sure what that says about either the writers or me for that matter. Not sure I want to know. Hmm. Maybe in ten years, I won't even remember the line?]

Comments

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Oh I agree. I don't really blame Shae because she was just trying to live and to advance herself through the only methods that she had. It's just that as the story went along you could tell that Tyrion was deluding himself about her nature... because it was what he needed to believe. He kept insisting that she was sweet and loving... and yet she was extremely hard-hearted about poor Lolly's (whose story truly horrifies me) and I noticed right quick when Tyrion finally saw Shae again she had not a word about his injuries and near death, etc. If she truly cared about him (like he wanted to believe) concern over his rather terrible injuries would have been in there somewhere.

Though I was glad that Tyrion never thought of taking revenge against her. There was nothing to avenge. I understood his flipping out on Tywin though. Tywin taking Shae was the height of hypocrisy and that in conjunction to what he had done to Tysha? I felt bad for what vengeance did to Tyrion, but Tywin? He deserved it.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Ah, you've reached the bit where Tyrion finally takes his vengeance on his father? So you know Jamie's arc and Tyrion's now more or less?

Not sure if that changes your opinion of either character or not?

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Not really. I had always been spoiled for Jaime's 'redemption arc' so I always knew that he wasn't a straight-up bad guy, but I still think he's suseptible to a great deal of confirmation bias based on his opinion of himself. And I feel really awful for poor Tyrion who just wanted to be loved but who keeps getting the fuzzy end of the lollipop until he snaps.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I think both are the products of their environment and their father.
I loved them both separately.

Jamie fascinated me - because he really isn't a bad guy at all. But he is painted that way. (Won't argue it though - been there done that with Spike (who is a similar character in a lot of ways) - it was emotionally exhausting and in the end ultimately pointless. ...
;-)) Mileage clearly varies. (shrugs).

I think Tyrion would have been screwed no matter what family he ended up in, but the Tywin Lannister was the worst possible choice for a father. All Tywin cares about his name.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Oh, I don't hate Jaime or anything. And he deserves kudos for jumping into the bear pit. I think one hindrance for me is that I'm 5'10" and big boned and so reading his private thought insults of Brienne frequently has me wanting her to kick him in the nuts. So I tend to think of him as certainly not without positive qualities... but still kind of an asshole...which in this set of books still leaves him as one of the more likable characters.

It's kind of like Spike in that I have a friend who adores Jaime and who used to be a huge Spike fan whose feelings for the character turned on him during Season 7 because he rather lost his edge (which I agree did happen and I thought that was sad, but it didn't actually change my entire view of the character). In discussing it with her I realized that while we had both loved the character of Spike what we had each specifically loved were actually different qualities that he possessed.

Tyrion as a character is somewhat closer to my fiction kinks, I think.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I think one hindrance for me is that I'm 5'10" and big boned and so reading his private thought insults of Brienne frequently has me wanting her to kick him in the nuts. So I tend to think of him as certainly not without positive qualities... but still kind of an asshole...which in this set of books still leaves him as one of the more likable characters.

Hee. I get that. I'm 6 foot and big boned (also, ahem, a little overweight - will not release by how much). Waves!! Although I do have a bust, I don't believe Brienne does - she's completely flat chested.

Yeah, his reaction to Brienne was annoying, but keep in mind the man's idea of beauty is Cersei - he does begin to change his mind.
Have you gotten to the bit where he sends Brienne on her quest?

And he does do quite a few things for Brienne that well, WTF does come to mind. That whole bear bit threw me. As does what he does for her later - which he really didn't have to do. Would have been a lot easier if he hadn't. He goes against Tywin and Cersei in the end, which is really interesting.

Oh - I'm nothing like your friend - I liked Spike when he lost his edge. Jamie also loses his edge. The two characters have remarkably similar arcs.

I'm not necessarily in love with Jamie, but he did surprise me as a character. Much like Spike did. The reason I enjoy both characters is they start out as boiler-plate bad guys - the villain that you love to hate, and then, slowly are revealed to be a)not quite that black and white or straight up villain, b) it makes sense how they became that monster, and c) are, surprise, surprise, capable of doing insanely heroic and honorable things that are still completely in character. I find these types of characters far more interesting than characters like Ned Stark, Robb Stark, Jon Snow or Dany Taragyrn, who don't really change all that much and are pretty much what you thought they were at the start. In short characters that start out one way, and then suddenly turn out to be something else - I find really interesting - particularly if they are written well. Because that is really hard to pull off effectively. It's actually a lot easier to write the Tyrions and Jon Snow's who are more constant.

I admittedly have weird kinks. I like prickley characters with broad arcs. I remember fighting with people on Spike - they found his snark mean, I thought it hilarious. Same thing with Jamie - I find his comments funny...partly because he's so undercut by the text. His ideal female is Cersei...LOL!!! Boy does he change his mind.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Change is one of my favorite kinks. I like to look back over the course of a story and see that someone has changed a great deal.

I've just noticed though that Tyrion is the one who mines the most emotion from me.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Oh, Tyrion is my favorite character, Tyrion and Ayra - tend to grab at me the most. But I'm also fond of Brienne, Samwell, and Jamie.
Dany, Sansa and Jon Snow have grown on me. I'm on the fence about Bran - those stories are getting repetitive.

I'm not sure Jamie's arc is as perfect as many fans think - there's a few bits that feel a little too neat. But it's not over either and he and Brienne oddly change places, which I found sort of interesting. Also the fact that Martin's maiming of Jamie is so perfectly karmic - it echoes in many ways Bran's injury - in that now Jamie is a cripple, and unable to do the one thing he defined himself by. Bran defined himself with climbing, Jamie with fighting. It's perfect karmic justice and reminds me a little of Spike's chip in how it forces Jamie to rethink his choices and motivations. Also gory beyond belief. These are gory and violent books. The injury changes Jamie's relationships with everyone in his family and is the exact opposite of how Bran is treated. The Lannisters all treat him with disdain. He is isolated by it.
Emasculated in many ways. And it is such an ironic injury.

That's the one thing I like - the karmic twists.

I don't know if I'll make it through the books though - have some of the same issues you do with them.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Tywin deserves his death all the way. I'm also glad Shae was not harmed though, because in my book she owed Tyrion no loyalty.

I think Tyrion really has a horrible emotional scar from what Tywin did to him with Tysha. Because it instilled this thing in Tyrion that there are no good people. Even he himself ended up being a monster and the best that he can hope for is bought pretend love. And he prefers to be upfront about it.

He would actually want real love but he denies it even exists and so deludes himself, thinking he has it all in Shae. It'll be interesting meeting him after all of this. I think he might have lost his taste for whores.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Wait a moment. He did take revenge on Shae. He strangled her with the hand chain. I had thought maybe I was remembering it wrong and I would have liked it a lot better if she had lived, but I looked it up, he does kill her.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

OOps! Guess I blocked that out. I just remembered the lingering sadness that Tyrion had taken a turn for the worse.

I tend to worry about Arya in that regard too (I haven't read AFwC and I still haven't quite finished SoS. I only read the part about Tyrion/Tywin because I once skimmed ahead.)

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Oops..I hope I didn't spoil you in my last response. I can't figure out where you are in the text. And it does not help that I can't remember in exactly what order some of these things happened.

I skimmed ahead too...I kept worrying about Arya and Tyrion. I did the same thing in Clash and Game. Also you get really bogged down
in some of the pov's, George RR Martin has this insane desire to tell you everything.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

RIght now? I'm post Red Wedding and I'm expecting Joffrey to die in the next few pages... so yay.
George RR Martin has this insane desire to tell you everything.

Doesn't he though? Sometimes you want to say "You know, George, unless what happened to some old king 300 years ago actually has some bearing on the plot at hand I don't need to know!

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Joffrey hasn't died yet??? Oooh...you have some interesting WTF surprises coming up.

I was highly spoiled because I kept skimming ahead. Martin has this annoying habit of leaving on your on a cliff-hanger regarding a character you really care about - such as say Ayra, only to find yourself greeted by a chapter of a character who isn't really doing anything. I remember counting how many chapters were between me and the next Ayra, Tyrion, Samwell and Jamie chapters. The Davos chapters drove me nuts. As did the Catelynn ones for a while.

Sometimes you want to say "You know, George, unless what happened to some old king 300 years ago actually has some bearing on the plot at hand I don't need to know!

I think he read too much Alexandra Dumas. And oh yes. Talk about overkill. It's why I actually prefer the tv series in some respects - it's faster and better paced. But it is curious what he is leaving out.

I'm post Red Wedding and I'm expecting Joffrey to die in the next few pages... so yay.

Let me know if you run into the speech Tyrion gave to Lyssa in the Espenson episode, which everyone credited to Espenson and I could swear he actually gives word for word to Cersei and Tywin and Joffrey...somewhere in that chapter or series of scenes. Something about wanking into soup and tricking his sister into drinking it.
I couldn't find it - but I swear it's in Storm.

Isn't the Red Wedding the goriest thing ever?? I'm sort of hoping that the tv series decides not to show all of it. Really don't want to see some of that on TV - too Caligula or maybe Roman Polanski's MacBeth.

What happens after Joffrey's death is extremely difficult to read. I skimmed ahead because I wanted to strangle Cersei and Tywin.

I'm right there with you on Tyrion by the way. And Peter Dinklage's portrayal is just...love.