Comic Reviews: Buffy and Angel
Apr. 5th, 2008 06:11 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkatQuite the relaxing day. Got my pop culture addictions, a massage, hung out with Wales (who tolerates my pop culture addictions but woefully does not share them - if she or anyone else I know did, I wouldn't come online), had a glass of white torronges wine via Argentina, and an Aero chocolat bar. Life is good.
Regarding the pop culture addictions....
Angel After The Fall: First Night, Issue 6.
Unsurprisingly good. Actually better than I dreamed it would be. In my post on pop culture, I had discussion with![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
embers_log about short stories. She stated that what she enjoyed most about them was the economy of language - the precision, while novelists have a tendency to drone on and on. (Okay, those weren't her exact words, I'm paraphrasing, it's my journal - I can do that.) At any rate, as a writer, particularly one who does a lot of "business" writing - I appreciate the economy of language. Business people read too many emails - they want it clear and concise and to the point, cut the crap. (Not that you can tell by reading this journal, but what the hell, I've got to let loose somewhere occassionally.) Lynch is a master at economy of language. In a few pages he manages to convey why Spike and Illyria got together, why Connor is in hell and what he feels about Angel, and what happened to Lorne. In fact he may have the best take on Connor, I've seen. Not only does he appear to understand these characters and how they talk, he also gives them a dry sense of humor that enables the reader to laugh with the characters at the horrible situations in which they find themselves as opposed to at them.
In Spike's tale - he tells us three things in a short period of time: How Spike handled the battle in the alley, what he intended to do once things went to hell and the battle was over, how he found Illyria, and why he changed his mind regarding his intentions. His choices? Completely in character. The author did not change the character to benefit the plot or make a joke at the character's expense or be politically correct or for shock value. That's good writing.
I'm trying to keep this more or less spoiler free, so am not going into depth as to what happened. You can readstormwreath or shapinglight for that stuff.
This is just a general albeit somewhat subjective review, impossible to be anything but that.
The art? Not as good at Urru's but those who don't like Urru's(weird people, but they exist and many on my flist, believe it or not)[ETA: this was meant as a tongue in cheek joke - I personally think my own pop culture addictions are the height of WEIRD. I'm weird.], art may well enjoy these artists and may be psyched to learn Urru has jumped to the spin-off: Spike -After the Fall, so there will be a new artist doing Angel. Apparently this type of work is more time consuming for artists than writers, since Lynch is still doing both. Makes sense, Urru has to draw ten to twelve panels, many without dialogue, while Lynch has to provide the equivalent of two pages of dialogue. Comics is not really a writer's medium, it's an artists medium, which begs the question why are the writer's the rock stars here?
I did like the different styles, though. And I loved John Byrn's innovative comic strip take on Lorne's story. It fit Lorne perfectly. The style of the artwork and the dialogue fit each character - it's a hard thing to do without jarring the reader in the process. I know, I've tried it.
If you are a Connor fan - you should pick this comic. It provides us with the moment that we did not get in Origin, where Connor remembers what happened and how he deals with the confusion of having clear and conscise memories of not one but three different father figures, not to mention the knowledge that he slept with his surrogate mother and biological father's lover. His quip is in character and quite funny, as well as oddly touching. I'm not a huge fan of the character, to be honest, he got on my nerves on the series and I did not like Origin that much, a bit too sappy for my taste (which was my main problem with the Connor story on the series) - but in the comics - he is handled well, used sparingly, but effectively. The sentimentality undercut with sharp humor.
Overall rating? A + (Better than the last issue - which may be partly because I find Angel a tad boring as a character at the moment.)
Buffy S8, Issue 13 - Wolves at the Gate.
(As an aside, I had an interesting conversation with mother over the phone the other night. (It has to be over the phone, she lives more than a two days drive or an hour and a half plane flight away). It was a brief conversation. She was stating that in her book club, people were complaining about how puritanical Americans were about sex. My mother retorted - no, if anything they are obsessed with sex. It permeates everything. Newspapers. TV news. TV shows. Films. Books. Even Dancing with The Stars - they crack sex jokes. In this day and age, it is impossible to date someone without them assuming that you should have sex if the date goes well. Or at least that's what books, tv shows, and everything else tells us. Also, if you aren't having sex, are celibate, happen to be a "virgin" by choice - you are made fun and people think something is wrong with you. They also think something is wrong with you if you have had multiple lovers - although in today's world that is often considered bragging rights. I miss the old days when it was less prevalent. When you didn't see everything, when people didn't assume you had sexual intercourse after knowing someone 48 hours or two or three weeks, if that, as long as they were hot. One of the things I loved most about the Kim Harrison novel I just completed - was there was not one sex scene. Not one. The novelist was able to write a compelling story about a strong and sympathetic heroine, without talking about sex constantly. Shocking. )
I state this because Whedon and all's preoccupation with lame sex jokes is beginning to grate on my nerves. Methinks the man has been watching too many reruns of Sex and the City. Or someone has. Sure the show always had it as well, but for some reason it didn't grate as much, they seemed more subtle somehow, more tongue in check, more witty, and less in bad taste and the expense of the characters. Was that the female influence? Possibly.
Willow's interaction with Satsu made me wince. "So tell me what Buffy is like in Bed? Seriously did she give the high-pitched scream that I call her shoe-scream?" This by the way is the only dialogue we get from Willow. We don't see her talking to Buffy about it. We don't see her talking strategy. It's not like the series. And this is after an excruciatingly long bit with Xander and "his master" Dracula, with all of Dracula's racist slurs (which are in character) but grating.
It turns out by the way - that my analysis of last month's issue was once again right on the money. Buffy was using someone else to make herself feel better. Willow puts a soft spin on it and makes it out to be Satsu's fault. But Scott Allie the editor stated in an interview that the readers who were upset with Buffy's crass handling of Satsu's emotions were the most interesting and understood the character the best as well as the arc of the story. Whedon equalled that statement - with the announcement that she was just "experimenting". (In short he did it for two reasons 1)shock value - ie the same reason that Allie McBeal did the lesbian kiss episode, and Friends did a lesbian kiss episode or was that Sex and the City - it was all the rage in the 80s and 90s until Marti Noxon and Joss Whedon changed everything by creating the Tara/Willow relationship. By the way, Noxon really created that not Whedon. Noxon based it on a friends and convinced Whedon to take Tara in a different direction than he originally planned as well as to cast a completely different actress. 2) to explore Buffy's somewhat oblivious, self-centered, and crass handling of other's emotions. She may not be Parker Abrahms, but the modus operandi is surprisingly similar to both Abrahms and Angel. You know - the love them and leave them, don't show you give a damn attitude?)
There are other things that happen in the issue. Xander has an interminable and grating discussion with Dracula that made me wish Renee would kick them both. Andrew gives an annoying lecture that doesn't tell us anything new nor does it move anyone forward. The only things that happen in the book are Dracula decides to help (takes the whole issue for this to happen) and it's pretty clear he gave his secrets away while drunk to a witch, the Asian vampires find a way to remove the slayer's powers, one of them - the witch has the scythe that they stole from Buffy - which is the instrument they need to do it (makes sense it did after all give everyone their power via Willow another witch not to mention that one could find the way to do the opposite - a nifty little double-edged sword or scythe), and Buffy once again isn't working with her team so much as dictating to it ( did she learn nothing?).
My biggest problem with the arc so far is that these characters aren't evolving. They aren't moving forward. And I'm not learning anything new or different about them. I feel frustrated by the storyline. It feels at times like reading someone online's lame fanfic about the ongoing sexual and other misadventures of their favorite characters.
Not all the issues are like this by the way, if you are wondering why I keep bothering.
Some are quite good. I rather enjoyed the one in which Willow and Buffy visited the other dimension. The Faith arc had its moments. I also liked The Chain. These past few issues however annoy me the same way that Girl in Question annoyed a lot of Angel viewers. They are written by the same writer, so this should not surprise me, except I enjoyed Girl in Question a heck of a lot more - because it did provide some insight in the characters and was a clever take on Roderscrantz and Guilderstern - that old Tom Stoppard play.
I was unable to avoid spoilers in this review. Sorry about that. Not that I revealed all that much, unless of course you've been hiding under a rock and did not know about Satsu and Buffy.
(By the way - the Palely Festival discussion of that almost made that issue worth it. Marsters/Gellar and Brendon's banter was a hoot.)
The art is improving by the way. Or it's growing on me. Can't tell which. I liked it better than the writing.
Overall rating? B-
Interesting. I preferred Buffy the tv series over Angel, but I much prefer the Angel comics over Buffy. They are in my opinion 80% better overall not to mention much more satsifying. Maybe there's something to be said for being forced to tell your story in 12 issues as opposed to 44? 44 issues is giving the writers far too much time to drone on and on - reminiscent of a daytime serial - you get flashes of brilliance, but you have to wade through oodles of crap to get there.
Also picked up the latest Dresden novel by Jim Butcher - 20% at Barnes and Noble. Wales watched me buy these items in bewilderment. She doesn't understand why I spend money on such things. Nor do a lot of people apparently. I read a touching letter in the Angel After The Fall issue - from a solider stationed in Iraq, complete with photos. He was stating how these comics and the DVD's of the series had kept him going in Iraq and provided relief from stress.
He also stated that he had given up comics, sold his collection, when he got married. It was either his comics or the girl. But she made an exception for Buffy. I've been trying to wrap my mind around this. Why do women tell their boyfriends to give up their comics collections?
I mean it's not like he's telling her to stop buying shoes or jewelry. Actually shoes have a purpose. Jewelry? Not so much. I'd rather waste money on books or comics - you got a story that you can reread. Jewelry gets tarnished, is easily lost, and gets caught on things.
I'm a strange woman, I know.
Regarding the pop culture addictions....
Angel After The Fall: First Night, Issue 6.
Unsurprisingly good. Actually better than I dreamed it would be. In my post on pop culture, I had discussion with
embers_log about short stories. She stated that what she enjoyed most about them was the economy of language - the precision, while novelists have a tendency to drone on and on. (Okay, those weren't her exact words, I'm paraphrasing, it's my journal - I can do that.) At any rate, as a writer, particularly one who does a lot of "business" writing - I appreciate the economy of language. Business people read too many emails - they want it clear and concise and to the point, cut the crap. (Not that you can tell by reading this journal, but what the hell, I've got to let loose somewhere occassionally.) Lynch is a master at economy of language. In a few pages he manages to convey why Spike and Illyria got together, why Connor is in hell and what he feels about Angel, and what happened to Lorne. In fact he may have the best take on Connor, I've seen. Not only does he appear to understand these characters and how they talk, he also gives them a dry sense of humor that enables the reader to laugh with the characters at the horrible situations in which they find themselves as opposed to at them. In Spike's tale - he tells us three things in a short period of time: How Spike handled the battle in the alley, what he intended to do once things went to hell and the battle was over, how he found Illyria, and why he changed his mind regarding his intentions. His choices? Completely in character. The author did not change the character to benefit the plot or make a joke at the character's expense or be politically correct or for shock value. That's good writing.
I'm trying to keep this more or less spoiler free, so am not going into depth as to what happened. You can read
stormwreath or shapinglight for that stuff.This is just a general albeit somewhat subjective review, impossible to be anything but that.
The art? Not as good at Urru's but those who don't like Urru's
I did like the different styles, though. And I loved John Byrn's innovative comic strip take on Lorne's story. It fit Lorne perfectly. The style of the artwork and the dialogue fit each character - it's a hard thing to do without jarring the reader in the process. I know, I've tried it.
If you are a Connor fan - you should pick this comic. It provides us with the moment that we did not get in Origin, where Connor remembers what happened and how he deals with the confusion of having clear and conscise memories of not one but three different father figures, not to mention the knowledge that he slept with his surrogate mother and biological father's lover. His quip is in character and quite funny, as well as oddly touching. I'm not a huge fan of the character, to be honest, he got on my nerves on the series and I did not like Origin that much, a bit too sappy for my taste (which was my main problem with the Connor story on the series) - but in the comics - he is handled well, used sparingly, but effectively. The sentimentality undercut with sharp humor.
Overall rating? A + (Better than the last issue - which may be partly because I find Angel a tad boring as a character at the moment.)
Buffy S8, Issue 13 - Wolves at the Gate.
(As an aside, I had an interesting conversation with mother over the phone the other night. (It has to be over the phone, she lives more than a two days drive or an hour and a half plane flight away). It was a brief conversation. She was stating that in her book club, people were complaining about how puritanical Americans were about sex. My mother retorted - no, if anything they are obsessed with sex. It permeates everything. Newspapers. TV news. TV shows. Films. Books. Even Dancing with The Stars - they crack sex jokes. In this day and age, it is impossible to date someone without them assuming that you should have sex if the date goes well. Or at least that's what books, tv shows, and everything else tells us. Also, if you aren't having sex, are celibate, happen to be a "virgin" by choice - you are made fun and people think something is wrong with you. They also think something is wrong with you if you have had multiple lovers - although in today's world that is often considered bragging rights. I miss the old days when it was less prevalent. When you didn't see everything, when people didn't assume you had sexual intercourse after knowing someone 48 hours or two or three weeks, if that, as long as they were hot. One of the things I loved most about the Kim Harrison novel I just completed - was there was not one sex scene. Not one. The novelist was able to write a compelling story about a strong and sympathetic heroine, without talking about sex constantly. Shocking. )
I state this because Whedon and all's preoccupation with lame sex jokes is beginning to grate on my nerves. Methinks the man has been watching too many reruns of Sex and the City. Or someone has. Sure the show always had it as well, but for some reason it didn't grate as much, they seemed more subtle somehow, more tongue in check, more witty, and less in bad taste and the expense of the characters. Was that the female influence? Possibly.
Willow's interaction with Satsu made me wince. "So tell me what Buffy is like in Bed? Seriously did she give the high-pitched scream that I call her shoe-scream?" This by the way is the only dialogue we get from Willow. We don't see her talking to Buffy about it. We don't see her talking strategy. It's not like the series. And this is after an excruciatingly long bit with Xander and "his master" Dracula, with all of Dracula's racist slurs (which are in character) but grating.
It turns out by the way - that my analysis of last month's issue was once again right on the money. Buffy was using someone else to make herself feel better. Willow puts a soft spin on it and makes it out to be Satsu's fault. But Scott Allie the editor stated in an interview that the readers who were upset with Buffy's crass handling of Satsu's emotions were the most interesting and understood the character the best as well as the arc of the story. Whedon equalled that statement - with the announcement that she was just "experimenting". (In short he did it for two reasons 1)shock value - ie the same reason that Allie McBeal did the lesbian kiss episode, and Friends did a lesbian kiss episode or was that Sex and the City - it was all the rage in the 80s and 90s until Marti Noxon and Joss Whedon changed everything by creating the Tara/Willow relationship. By the way, Noxon really created that not Whedon. Noxon based it on a friends and convinced Whedon to take Tara in a different direction than he originally planned as well as to cast a completely different actress. 2) to explore Buffy's somewhat oblivious, self-centered, and crass handling of other's emotions. She may not be Parker Abrahms, but the modus operandi is surprisingly similar to both Abrahms and Angel. You know - the love them and leave them, don't show you give a damn attitude?)
There are other things that happen in the issue. Xander has an interminable and grating discussion with Dracula that made me wish Renee would kick them both. Andrew gives an annoying lecture that doesn't tell us anything new nor does it move anyone forward. The only things that happen in the book are Dracula decides to help (takes the whole issue for this to happen) and it's pretty clear he gave his secrets away while drunk to a witch, the Asian vampires find a way to remove the slayer's powers, one of them - the witch has the scythe that they stole from Buffy - which is the instrument they need to do it (makes sense it did after all give everyone their power via Willow another witch not to mention that one could find the way to do the opposite - a nifty little double-edged sword or scythe), and Buffy once again isn't working with her team so much as dictating to it ( did she learn nothing?).
My biggest problem with the arc so far is that these characters aren't evolving. They aren't moving forward. And I'm not learning anything new or different about them. I feel frustrated by the storyline. It feels at times like reading someone online's lame fanfic about the ongoing sexual and other misadventures of their favorite characters.
Not all the issues are like this by the way, if you are wondering why I keep bothering.
Some are quite good. I rather enjoyed the one in which Willow and Buffy visited the other dimension. The Faith arc had its moments. I also liked The Chain. These past few issues however annoy me the same way that Girl in Question annoyed a lot of Angel viewers. They are written by the same writer, so this should not surprise me, except I enjoyed Girl in Question a heck of a lot more - because it did provide some insight in the characters and was a clever take on Roderscrantz and Guilderstern - that old Tom Stoppard play.
I was unable to avoid spoilers in this review. Sorry about that. Not that I revealed all that much, unless of course you've been hiding under a rock and did not know about Satsu and Buffy.
(By the way - the Palely Festival discussion of that almost made that issue worth it. Marsters/Gellar and Brendon's banter was a hoot.)
The art is improving by the way. Or it's growing on me. Can't tell which. I liked it better than the writing.
Overall rating? B-
Interesting. I preferred Buffy the tv series over Angel, but I much prefer the Angel comics over Buffy. They are in my opinion 80% better overall not to mention much more satsifying. Maybe there's something to be said for being forced to tell your story in 12 issues as opposed to 44? 44 issues is giving the writers far too much time to drone on and on - reminiscent of a daytime serial - you get flashes of brilliance, but you have to wade through oodles of crap to get there.
Also picked up the latest Dresden novel by Jim Butcher - 20% at Barnes and Noble. Wales watched me buy these items in bewilderment. She doesn't understand why I spend money on such things. Nor do a lot of people apparently. I read a touching letter in the Angel After The Fall issue - from a solider stationed in Iraq, complete with photos. He was stating how these comics and the DVD's of the series had kept him going in Iraq and provided relief from stress.
He also stated that he had given up comics, sold his collection, when he got married. It was either his comics or the girl. But she made an exception for Buffy. I've been trying to wrap my mind around this. Why do women tell their boyfriends to give up their comics collections?
I mean it's not like he's telling her to stop buying shoes or jewelry. Actually shoes have a purpose. Jewelry? Not so much. I'd rather waste money on books or comics - you got a story that you can reread. Jewelry gets tarnished, is easily lost, and gets caught on things.
I'm a strange woman, I know.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2008-04-06 01:51 am (UTC)Anyway I REALLY agree with you! I loved BtVS TV show way more than Angel, but the comic book doesn't have the same pacing, or the ensemble story lines:
Brian Lynch has almost every character going through their own life changing arc, while in the Buffy comic we aren't sure anyone is getting an arc at all (I believe it will develop, because I feel that Astonishing X-men is really coming together, but Joss is definitely taking his own sweet time).
It is funny: I didn't think Joss was as good at writing movies because 'Serenity' was too lean and fast paced, so that the characters were kind of lost in the rush of action. But now I'm suspecting he is also not the best comic book writer, because although I think he'll build to something great (I have faith) he lets whole issues go by without much interesting going on. It seems to me that Joss really needs to write for TV, where he knows he has to give a knock out punch every single hour even though his season arc is the more important story.
I don't know if Brian Lynch could write a movie or TV show, but he certainly understands the pacing of an action packed comic book!
no subject
Date: 2008-04-06 04:20 pm (UTC)Have you read the recent Serenity comic? It was great - quick, tight, gave me insight into each character. Moved their story forward. Had layers. Was a lot like Lynch's take on Angel. Plus had a great sense of fun.
The Serenity comics are a three issue arc - so the writer's have to compact more in a smaller amount of space/time.
I probably shouldn't be blaming Whedon for this arc, it's actually written by Drew Goodard. Brain K. Vaughn who co-wrote the last arc - was actually a lot better, Faith was amongst the better arcs in the series.
And The Long Way Home, while it had its issues, wasn't repetitive and didn't get as crass. More subtle.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-06 04:27 pm (UTC)At some point, I'm going to have to get rid of them. I also have to get rid of the marvel comics and dark horse comics I've collected.
I'm beginning to think the people who are waiting for the trade books collecting all the issues to come out, have the right idea.
Sort of like waiting for the DVD's as opposed to watching tv live. But I'm too impatient. Hee.
At any rate - he does state in the letter than he collected literally everything out there - which means his collection probably took up an entire room of their apartment or house. Dusty. In boxes. Ugh. Jewelry takes less space. Romance novels? Checked out from the library.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-06 05:36 pm (UTC)I have seen comic book collects that have been the result of many years collecting, and they get to be very bulky (and as you said, dusty). I am going to have to start clearing away a lot of what I've saved. But I do think it is worth it to buy the comic and enjoy it right when it comes out!
I'll wait for movies to come out on DVD, because I find it hard to care. But I like to watch TV right away, and read my comics asap!
no subject
Date: 2008-04-06 05:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-06 06:12 pm (UTC)I agree that selling them is too time consuming for things that aren't rare, and are out in Trade paperback.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-07 01:10 am (UTC)I tried my local comic store and they said no.
My folks have most of them - they keep threatening to send them to me, the fact it would cost them an arm and a leg to do so, probably stops them.
Yeah, I did the same thing with the fan mags - threw them out. I used them to sketch pictures of the actors shown in them, specifically James Marsters - who is a lot of fun to sketch - great face. Lean faces with high cheekbones are easier to sketch than round ones with low heavy foreheads for some reason.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-07 01:40 am (UTC)I"ve never had Goodwill or Salvation Army refuse to take them, we had a local store supporting the schools in Iowa and they loved to get all kinds of comics (they would sell them for 10¢ each, paperbacks selling for 50¢. and hardbacks for a $1 each).
no subject
Date: 2008-04-07 01:47 am (UTC)(Little known fact - He deliberately gained weight during Angel and suggested Marsters do the same to discourage the writers from making them take their clothes off constantly. LOL! They figured that looking buff was probably not such a great idea. )
Maybe my parents Thrift store down in Hilton Head will take them? Should ask. That's the majority. Although it will be hard to part with my trade Frank Millers, I can live without them.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-06 05:29 pm (UTC)Yeah, I think Drew Goddard goes for the crass a bit more, and actually I' willing to go through the different writing styles (I'm really looking forward to Jane Espenson's I've bought some of her old Buffy comics and loved them). I have no intention of giving up on the BtVS comic, but I'm just finding Angel: ATF to be more exciting.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-06 06:05 pm (UTC)I have Those Left Behind in trade and I enjoyed it as well. I also laughed about Inara's fantasy. It was an example of sex used in a way that furthered a character as opposed to well...
I don't have problems with the differing writing styles - actually like them - because I know as much as I hate one, the next one I might enjoy. Espenson's arc will be interesting to see. I'm hoping it doesn't focus on Andrew, though. She has a tendency to focus on characters that annoy me. LOL!
I think because she identifies with them and loves them. Which makes sense. I'd like to see her write a Buffy arc, but I'm not sure we'll get that.
I probably won't give up on the comic either.
Because we'll get another writer soon enough.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-06 02:55 am (UTC)Have to say I disagree with this, although I know many fans are in agreement with your read on the subject. As a thought experiment, consider what might have happened if the Buffy/Satsu tryst hadn't been interrupted in the fashion that it was, and then further speculate that the "wolves at the gate" incident occurred an entire week or more later. Would Buffy's behavior have been the same? I doubt that it would have.
The events building up to the actual night of physical intimacy seemed to suggest to me that Buffy was very much considering Satsu's feelings, so I find it hard to assume that she would suddenly turn on the girl. I think it more likely that literally in the course of a few minutes, a very personal event is abruptly segued into one literally threatening the world, particularly the Slayers. At that instant, "other things matter more."
Buffy surely understands that if a powerful witch and accomplices steal the Scythe, the magical source of the now thousands of new Slayers, then they are placed in the direst of jeopardy.
A rational leader isn't likely to think of anything else but how to get it back, and I further think that Willow understands exactly the same thing that Buffy does-- and that she and Buffy may not be shocked to find the nature of Aiko's demise.
Was the admittedly crass comments Willow made re "Buffy in the sack" partly a diversionary tactic to soften the hurt Satsu feels about being pushed back to the ranks of just another soldier under Buffy's command?
And for that matter, what would happen re the other Slayers in Buffy's team if she showed special treatment of Satsu? Past issues have suggested that some of them are already a bit jealous of Satsu due to Buffy's seeming favor of her.
Leaving aside this particular argument, I do agree that this was a weak issue in what I feel has otherwise been a superb series. It's interesting to me that you and I completely agree on things pop-cultural so much of the time that it's odd to find such disagreement on these two comic series-- namely, that I find the Angel ATF weak and uninvolving, and the Buffy S8 detailed and fascinating.
I'm sure it's just like the art-- it's all about what one's expectations are going in. I've never minded the winding and leisurely way Whedon takes to getting to his point, and find that the Angel comics are far more "condensed" than I prefer.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-06 04:00 pm (UTC)Whedon? I didn't have that high an expectation of - I've read his Astonishing X-men, and they aren't that good. And his Runaway's comics didn't do much for me. And Fray? Bored out of my mind. So, I don't think comics is actually Whedon's medium. I know I'm in the minority on that score, but what the heck. So I came to Buffy with rather low expectations.
What I expected? A story the evolves the characters, doesn't waste time repeating itself, and doesn't hit me over the head every single issue with the same things.
The only issues that have not felt the need to tell us that Buffy is lonely, misses sex to an almost obsessive degree (I'm beginning to want to get the girl a support group), and has the weight of the world on her shoulders
were the Faith Arc and Chain. They were also the only issues without frequent sex jokes and frequent sex fantasies. I don't mind it from time to time, don't get me wrong, but every frigging issue? We get the point Joss! We know the girl is lonely. We know she misses sex. We know she feels cut off from everyone. Can we move on? Please!
Regarding Satsu - if you will recall the conversation that occurred before everyone popped in, before things went wonky, Buffy made it pretty clear that she didn't want anyone to know. It was a one time thing. Albeit great. But one time. And she did not love Satsu. She was nicer - but her words weren't all that different from Parker's - the next morning - in which he said she was great but you know, just sex. Which would have been fine and swell if Satsu hadn't confessed that she felt "love" for Buffy. Not just a strong physical attraction. This isn't like Buffy and Parker - who were clearly *not* in love. Buffy didn't *love* Parker. And she made it clear to him that she was doing the same thing he was - just sex. Anya the same thing in Harsh Light of Day - it was just sex she told Xander. Harmony in Season 5 of Buffy - tells Spike she only wants the sex.
Here - Satsu tells Buffy in two ways that it was undying love - first the spell required "true love's" kiss, second she admits it in the grave yard as they are fighting. She says it's not just a crush, not hero worship, and it is okay if Buffy doesn't return it, she knows she doesn't have a chance. Then, whoa, Buffy decides to have sex with her? You don't see that as selfish and inconsiderate of someone else's emotions? As using them???
What gives me hope is that the writer and editor actually do see that way. They've more or less told us as much in interviews and in the comic. And they've said that the other characters are trying to justify it the same way they've always justified it. She's the leader, etc. That's the thematic emotional character arc.
Angel on the other hand, is giving time to every character. The character's arcs are emotionally satisfying. They don't rely on sex jokes or poke fun at the characters. The humor comes from the dialogue and is making fun of the situation. The story is more satisfying to me on numerous levels. Not to mention far less repetitive.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-06 08:17 am (UTC)It’s always pointless to try and justify humour but on the characterisation I hardly think Scott Allie is an authority. He’s admitted having practically no involvement in the writing process and if he thinks “using people to wash away her loneliness” is an accurate description of her relationships on the show (including that with Spike) his critical faculties don’t seem that well developed. Whedon said she was experimenting but not just experimenting and she looks just as cut up by having to cut Satsu off as Satsu does at being cut off. Their expressions match almost exactly. It’s a complicated situation no more easily boiled down to user/usee than the Buffy/Spike relationship was.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-06 04:31 pm (UTC)Please accept my apologies.
The comment about weird people - was meant as a joke, making fun of my own tastes as well as everyone elses. If it helps at all, I did say at the end of the post that I'm a strange woman. The truth is I consider my pop culture addictions to be very weird. So my apologies if it offended you.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-06 04:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-06 05:48 pm (UTC)My sense of humor is snark. I don't like physical humor or the humor in Whedon's books, but the snark in Lynch's is my sense of humor. He writes the same way I do. His conversational style is similar to mine. It's why I laugh out loud reading his comics. Drew Goddard doesn't write snark. It's different.
I don't know how to explain this. Except to say, we will have to agree to disagree. It's a bit like I say tomato while you say tomatoe,
or you like Astaire, while I prefer Gene Kelly, or I like the Stones while someone may prefer The Beatles...we can't explain why, it just is!