Angel After the Fall-Issue 11
Aug. 24th, 2008 04:21 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkat[Warning: This entry is filled with typos and paragraph gap errors, because I have no time or interest in proofing it.]
I thought they were only doing 12 issues of this series? Apparently I was wrong, since from what I've read - there's a cover for issue 14. Not that I'm complaining, I rather like Lynch's take on the Angel Series. Actually prefer it to Whedon's take on Buffy.
I've come to the conclusion regarding the Buffy comics - that they are being written for fans of Fray, if you aren't a fan of Fray, have no interest in Fray, have never heard of Fray and don't find the general themes of the potential slayers, power, leadership and war that influenced/inspired Season 7 Buffy and Firefly - you are not going to enjoy the Buffy comics very much. If however that stuff makes you jump for joy, you are probably in heaven and have no clue why the rest of us are whinging about it. Also - worth noting, the Buffy comics are not by the same writing team that did the TV series.
People are weird about this - they seem to think Whedon wrote the tv series by himself and/or ghost write every script that he didn't write in some fashion -so the comics are of course "canon" because they are written and headed by "whedon". Uh, no. The TV series was a collaborative effort headed by Whedon, Noxon, Fury, and Greenwalt - with collaborative ideas and assistance and writing from Petrie, Rand Kirshner, Espenson (BattleStar Galatica), Drew Goddard (LOST), Drew Greenberg (who is currently writing Dexter), and a whole host of other guest writers and directors. Not to mention actors - who do have an effect. For instance - it was James Marsters and Sarah Michelle Gellar who told Whedon that they thought Spike and Buffy probably had the hots for each other and that may explain why Spike was sticking around and she wasn't killing him. (Actors being human beings sort of have to find a motivation for why they do the things they do.) Never occurred to Whedon until Marsters pointed it out and then of course it became obvious. Same deal with Angel - Whedon had intended to kill him off, Greenwalt talked him out of it and into doing a spin-off. Noxon and possibly Greenwalt pitched the idea of Spike and Dru, and Greenwalt created the character of Spike in School Hard. And it was Noxon who came up with VampWillow in the Wish - Whedon loved it so much he brought the character back two episodes later along with Anya (also created by Noxon) (IF you don't believe me - just google old interviews and read them, better yet, listen to some of the commentary.)
The current writing team is Brad Metzler (who I'm not overly fond of, although his Justice League graphic novel was interesting), Drew Goddard, Brian K.Vaughn (just a one shot and the best of the bunch in my opinion), Jane Espenson (or so I'm told) and Jeff Leob (X-men writer...sigh). These guys aren't going to carry the characters in the same direction. The Powers that Be in BTVS universe have changed. Whether or not you like the new story has a heck of a lot to do with whether you like that collaboration of writers and artists - which includes Georges Jeanty and the Karl something or other.
Angel:After The Fall is much the same way but not as many writers. The two plotters here are Whedon and Lynch, with Lynch more or less in the driver's seat because Whedon isn't that comfortable with gothic noir - he prefers superhero/fantasy/sci-fi camp a la The X-men. The artists are Urru and Runge, with some assist by Tim Kane. On Buffy the plotters are Whedon and Meltzer, with Whedon in the driver's seat - I think Vaughn would have been happier if he'd had as much control as Lynch appears to. Lynch fortunately picked the series that Whedon was not as involved in from the get-go. Angel was Greenwalt, Minear, Fury, and Bell's baby not really Whedon's. If you loved Angel and not Buffy, you might not be a fan of Joss Whedon's writing as much as you think you are. I am a fan of Whedon - but he frustrates me at times, because he gets really campy and sentimental, when I want him to be a bit more witty and cynical. On the other hand, I was admittedly more of a Buffy fan than an Angel fan...up until the comics.
I like Brian Lynch's take on the Angel characters and particularly on Spike. And I enjoy how he writes these characters for a lot of reasons, the main one being - he fulfills my fantasies regarding them or takes them in the direction I would have wanted them to go. Whedon is not doing that with Buffy, so I'm getting frustrated. I'm not getting the scenes and character resolution/interaction in Buffy that I'm getting in Angel. For example - in Angel - we have a two-picture sequence, very brief, but very satisfying, between Spike and Connor - that tells us exactly what their relationship is, how they both feel about Angel, how they relate to each other regarding Angel, and why. I have yet to see a similar scene on Buffy regarding how Faith relates to Dawn or Xander or Giles. Or why Giles and Buffy aren't talking. Nor have I gotten a scene between Xander and Buffy regarding Willow or anyone really.
Instead, we have Buffy in the future interacting with Melanka, who I could care less about and some villian named Harth, who I also could care less about. Or Dracula being reintroduced or Warren, who I had thought was dead. There's a lot of characters who I'd like to see return from the great beyond, Warren ain't one of them. It's like reading a fanfic in which the writer has decided to create and introduce new characters...when you are craving more scenes and sequences with the existing ones. If you wanted new ones, you would read something else. Granted - the writer is expanding his universe...but he has all these cool characters that I crave interaction with - such as Cordelia, Doyle, Tara, Wesley, The Mayor, Darla, Drusilla, Anya, Harmony, Riley, and Clem. All have yet to make an appearance. And granted some are dead, but so was Warren.
In Angel - Lynch shows us what Kate is up to. He shows us how Spike and Connor are relating.
What happened to Gunn. And why. Each thing that happens tells me something new and more importantly it comes organically from the character. It's not imposed on them out of the blue.
It makes sense. It tracks. I can see Spike regarding Connor as a somewhat niave, nephew. He treats him much the same way that Faith did and to a degree how she treated Dawn. Demonstrating that he does care about Angel, but not quite willing to admit to it - as brothers tend to do. I've got one so am familar with this. And Spike's interaction with Wes regarding Fred/Illyria is spot on. "I'm not doing anything with her, but if you hurt her, I'll kill you." Same deal with Angel and Nina, not to mention Gunn. I feel when I read this books that I'm getting more the story, I'm seeing the next chapter, not just another take on the existing story or another alternate universe view.
I can't say the same thing about the Buffy comics. They feel like fanfic to me. Well-written, entertaining, and legitmate fanfic created in part by one of the original writers - but fanfic. It's sort of like being told that you get to see a Star Wars reprise, but the only person showing up is George Lucas. Wait that happened. And we wondered what was off about it.
Simple - Lucas did not create the Star Wars films by himself - it was a collaborative effort.
The team just didn't want to do the prequels so he had to find a new team. I give Whedon credit for finding a better team to write his comics and draw them than Lucas did.
And yes, the Angel comics are also written by a new team, so hardly "canon". Yet, the new team seems to be a fan of the old team, and interested in referencing what happened before in both series - Angel and Buffy. The new Buffy team seems to want to forget the old team...and only references what happened before when it is convienent - they are far more interested in referencing what is happening in Fray or that universe. I guess if I liked Fray or was interested in it - this wouldn't bug me so much. But I'm having troubles getting into it.
Sigh. Sorry, this isn't so much a review of Angel issue 11 as a gripe about the Buffy comics.
I think it's because I just re-watched portions of S7 and S6 of the series this weekend after a long respite from it, and I'm realizing how much I miss it. Angel, I'm not missing because I'm still getting that story or at least what I loved about it.
Angel Issue 11 is an interesting issue. It focuses on how the series views vampires. Angel in this issue reiterates what we've told before, yet from a vampire's perspective, which is somewhat different and more informative. Unlike Buffy and Giles - he states that becoming a vampire feels like a cool experience, you feel like your eyes have been opened, that everything suddenly makes sense, but in truth all that has happened is a demon has been given a front row seat to destroying everything and everyone you ever cared about in your life.
You are still there, but you're not in control - the demon is. You just think you are. You think the demon is right. Buffy's perspective was that you were completely gone and the demon was left.
A lot of people online could not understand why or how Spike could go for a soul. And had troubles with the message that it was his love for Buffy that changed him. Not exactly. If you consider what Angel says to Gunn it makes a bit more sense. The Chip held Spike's demon in check. The demon was not able to destroy what Spike cared about. He could not kill Buffy.
He could not kill her friends. He could not humans. All he could do was kill demons. This allowed the man inside to come forward. The demon was still there, but held in check by the chip. It was not the same as being connected. Spike still did things that the demon wanted to do. He still thought is was okay to kill people if they were making him crazy and he was still capable of finding a way to do it. But, the demon had a muzzle on it and the muzzle made it possible for the part of Spike, William, the man inside, to come forward. He couldn't change completely - if the chip had been removed - he'd probably have become like Angel did with the removal of the soul. But it did to a degree what Angel's soul did to Angel..which is why Spike didn't stay crazy as long as Angel did and did not have as much difficulty weaning himself off human blood as Angel. It's not that one vampire was better than the other, so much as just different and with different experiences.
If that doesn't make any sense - try this analogy, my grandmother has gone a bit crazy. But in her head she thinks she's perfectly sane. I think the same thing is going on here. Gunn thinks he's perfectly sane. He thinks he is saving the world. He does not see the collatoral damage nor cares. The old Gunn, ensouled Gunn, cared about collateral damage, he worried over the lives of his team. He wouldn't kill them and he put them first. This Gunn only cares about being the big leader, the important guy. It was after all what informed him in life - it was what was unresolved - his need to be important, to be respected, to be the leader not the muscel. Here as a demon, that informs who he is now. Just as for Angel what informed him was his need to be important, to be successful, to stand up to his father, to be his father - the authority figure. It still informs Angel to a degree - it's why he's so obsessed with the powers that be that he has literally become their puppet and it's why WRH has been able to manipulate him. He cares far too much about what God thinks and the Father's approval. And it is also why he's relationship with his son Connor is so interesting. And same deal for Spike - he is informed by three different things - respect of his peers, a desire to show his love to the object of his devotion, and a need to take care of his mother. Those were the things that were unresolved for Spike. They are his achillees heel. He will do just anything for a woman. Particularly if she bears some resemblance to his mother, yet is clearly not his mother. Weakness, illness, sickness, or vulnerability - still motivate him. As do power and strength. Like Angel - he is tormented by how the demon he'd become dealt with his parents.
He is also affected by peers, unlike Angel, Spike needs peer approval, he needs to be around people. He is constantly seeking them out. Yet, because he is insecure, he says he doesn't need anyone, doesn't care what they think, and is often sarcastic. It's often those who need other's the most who say they do not.
Illyria/Fred is another interesting character. She informs the others. She's powerful as a demon in strength, yet as she states, Fred the human shell that she took over is not just a shell, the personality was still there, the memories, the thoughts...what made Fred - Fred.
Illyria/Fred tells us a great deal about what a vampire is without a soul in this universe. The human is not erased. Fred much like William - had a strong personality and that personality is taking control of Illyria. Illyria is having troubles fighting it. Each time she sees someone or something that Fred cared about or loved, Fred fights her. It's what happens when a good person is taken over by something evil. Spike is a lot like Illyria. So is Angel. The demon and human are at war inside each of them. It's a neat metaphor for the human condition - because to a degree isn't that true of all of us? Isn't a war going on between our baser/selfish instincts and our kinder/nicer/better one's?
Then there's the Connor/Gwen relationship - they love each other but cannot touch without Gwen incinerating him. Much as Angel and Buffy could not touch without Angel becoming Angelus and his soul disappearing. The fear of contact - destroying one another. Or sexual repression, a common theme in these stories. And Spike's comment to Connor about the door always being open, unless there is a red handkerchief on it, meaning Connor probably won't want to come in...filled with sexual innuendo, because unlike Angel - Spike is not repressed when it comes to sex. He's not afraid of being destroyed, anymore than Nina appears to be.
My only quibble is the artwork. Not a fan of Runge. Much prefer Urru and Jeanty for that matter. Runge isn't as good at doing action sequences. His characters feel a bit stiff, somehow. But that's the only quibble. Everything else is working for me.
While I've got a pretty good idea where Whedon is headed with the Buffy books...I'm almost positive now that Harth is Twilight and Willow betrayed Buffy (yet again)...I've no idea where Lynch is headed. I don't know who the woman is that Gunn states he saw first - is this Illyria? Fred? or Gwen?? I'm guessing Gwen - since he had a fling with her and she's on the roof top saying she's sorry at the same time. But I could be wrong. I know Angel's not going to die - because he's the lead character and that would make it difficult to use him on the Buffy comics. You pretty much know for a fact that the writers are not going to permanently kill off Angel, Spike, Buffy, Faith, Illyria, Xander or Willow. Everyone else is fair game.
I thought they were only doing 12 issues of this series? Apparently I was wrong, since from what I've read - there's a cover for issue 14. Not that I'm complaining, I rather like Lynch's take on the Angel Series. Actually prefer it to Whedon's take on Buffy.
I've come to the conclusion regarding the Buffy comics - that they are being written for fans of Fray, if you aren't a fan of Fray, have no interest in Fray, have never heard of Fray and don't find the general themes of the potential slayers, power, leadership and war that influenced/inspired Season 7 Buffy and Firefly - you are not going to enjoy the Buffy comics very much. If however that stuff makes you jump for joy, you are probably in heaven and have no clue why the rest of us are whinging about it. Also - worth noting, the Buffy comics are not by the same writing team that did the TV series.
People are weird about this - they seem to think Whedon wrote the tv series by himself and/or ghost write every script that he didn't write in some fashion -so the comics are of course "canon" because they are written and headed by "whedon". Uh, no. The TV series was a collaborative effort headed by Whedon, Noxon, Fury, and Greenwalt - with collaborative ideas and assistance and writing from Petrie, Rand Kirshner, Espenson (BattleStar Galatica), Drew Goddard (LOST), Drew Greenberg (who is currently writing Dexter), and a whole host of other guest writers and directors. Not to mention actors - who do have an effect. For instance - it was James Marsters and Sarah Michelle Gellar who told Whedon that they thought Spike and Buffy probably had the hots for each other and that may explain why Spike was sticking around and she wasn't killing him. (Actors being human beings sort of have to find a motivation for why they do the things they do.) Never occurred to Whedon until Marsters pointed it out and then of course it became obvious. Same deal with Angel - Whedon had intended to kill him off, Greenwalt talked him out of it and into doing a spin-off. Noxon and possibly Greenwalt pitched the idea of Spike and Dru, and Greenwalt created the character of Spike in School Hard. And it was Noxon who came up with VampWillow in the Wish - Whedon loved it so much he brought the character back two episodes later along with Anya (also created by Noxon) (IF you don't believe me - just google old interviews and read them, better yet, listen to some of the commentary.)
The current writing team is Brad Metzler (who I'm not overly fond of, although his Justice League graphic novel was interesting), Drew Goddard, Brian K.Vaughn (just a one shot and the best of the bunch in my opinion), Jane Espenson (or so I'm told) and Jeff Leob (X-men writer...sigh). These guys aren't going to carry the characters in the same direction. The Powers that Be in BTVS universe have changed. Whether or not you like the new story has a heck of a lot to do with whether you like that collaboration of writers and artists - which includes Georges Jeanty and the Karl something or other.
Angel:After The Fall is much the same way but not as many writers. The two plotters here are Whedon and Lynch, with Lynch more or less in the driver's seat because Whedon isn't that comfortable with gothic noir - he prefers superhero/fantasy/sci-fi camp a la The X-men. The artists are Urru and Runge, with some assist by Tim Kane. On Buffy the plotters are Whedon and Meltzer, with Whedon in the driver's seat - I think Vaughn would have been happier if he'd had as much control as Lynch appears to. Lynch fortunately picked the series that Whedon was not as involved in from the get-go. Angel was Greenwalt, Minear, Fury, and Bell's baby not really Whedon's. If you loved Angel and not Buffy, you might not be a fan of Joss Whedon's writing as much as you think you are. I am a fan of Whedon - but he frustrates me at times, because he gets really campy and sentimental, when I want him to be a bit more witty and cynical. On the other hand, I was admittedly more of a Buffy fan than an Angel fan...up until the comics.
I like Brian Lynch's take on the Angel characters and particularly on Spike. And I enjoy how he writes these characters for a lot of reasons, the main one being - he fulfills my fantasies regarding them or takes them in the direction I would have wanted them to go. Whedon is not doing that with Buffy, so I'm getting frustrated. I'm not getting the scenes and character resolution/interaction in Buffy that I'm getting in Angel. For example - in Angel - we have a two-picture sequence, very brief, but very satisfying, between Spike and Connor - that tells us exactly what their relationship is, how they both feel about Angel, how they relate to each other regarding Angel, and why. I have yet to see a similar scene on Buffy regarding how Faith relates to Dawn or Xander or Giles. Or why Giles and Buffy aren't talking. Nor have I gotten a scene between Xander and Buffy regarding Willow or anyone really.
Instead, we have Buffy in the future interacting with Melanka, who I could care less about and some villian named Harth, who I also could care less about. Or Dracula being reintroduced or Warren, who I had thought was dead. There's a lot of characters who I'd like to see return from the great beyond, Warren ain't one of them. It's like reading a fanfic in which the writer has decided to create and introduce new characters...when you are craving more scenes and sequences with the existing ones. If you wanted new ones, you would read something else. Granted - the writer is expanding his universe...but he has all these cool characters that I crave interaction with - such as Cordelia, Doyle, Tara, Wesley, The Mayor, Darla, Drusilla, Anya, Harmony, Riley, and Clem. All have yet to make an appearance. And granted some are dead, but so was Warren.
In Angel - Lynch shows us what Kate is up to. He shows us how Spike and Connor are relating.
What happened to Gunn. And why. Each thing that happens tells me something new and more importantly it comes organically from the character. It's not imposed on them out of the blue.
It makes sense. It tracks. I can see Spike regarding Connor as a somewhat niave, nephew. He treats him much the same way that Faith did and to a degree how she treated Dawn. Demonstrating that he does care about Angel, but not quite willing to admit to it - as brothers tend to do. I've got one so am familar with this. And Spike's interaction with Wes regarding Fred/Illyria is spot on. "I'm not doing anything with her, but if you hurt her, I'll kill you." Same deal with Angel and Nina, not to mention Gunn. I feel when I read this books that I'm getting more the story, I'm seeing the next chapter, not just another take on the existing story or another alternate universe view.
I can't say the same thing about the Buffy comics. They feel like fanfic to me. Well-written, entertaining, and legitmate fanfic created in part by one of the original writers - but fanfic. It's sort of like being told that you get to see a Star Wars reprise, but the only person showing up is George Lucas. Wait that happened. And we wondered what was off about it.
Simple - Lucas did not create the Star Wars films by himself - it was a collaborative effort.
The team just didn't want to do the prequels so he had to find a new team. I give Whedon credit for finding a better team to write his comics and draw them than Lucas did.
And yes, the Angel comics are also written by a new team, so hardly "canon". Yet, the new team seems to be a fan of the old team, and interested in referencing what happened before in both series - Angel and Buffy. The new Buffy team seems to want to forget the old team...and only references what happened before when it is convienent - they are far more interested in referencing what is happening in Fray or that universe. I guess if I liked Fray or was interested in it - this wouldn't bug me so much. But I'm having troubles getting into it.
Sigh. Sorry, this isn't so much a review of Angel issue 11 as a gripe about the Buffy comics.
I think it's because I just re-watched portions of S7 and S6 of the series this weekend after a long respite from it, and I'm realizing how much I miss it. Angel, I'm not missing because I'm still getting that story or at least what I loved about it.
Angel Issue 11 is an interesting issue. It focuses on how the series views vampires. Angel in this issue reiterates what we've told before, yet from a vampire's perspective, which is somewhat different and more informative. Unlike Buffy and Giles - he states that becoming a vampire feels like a cool experience, you feel like your eyes have been opened, that everything suddenly makes sense, but in truth all that has happened is a demon has been given a front row seat to destroying everything and everyone you ever cared about in your life.
You are still there, but you're not in control - the demon is. You just think you are. You think the demon is right. Buffy's perspective was that you were completely gone and the demon was left.
A lot of people online could not understand why or how Spike could go for a soul. And had troubles with the message that it was his love for Buffy that changed him. Not exactly. If you consider what Angel says to Gunn it makes a bit more sense. The Chip held Spike's demon in check. The demon was not able to destroy what Spike cared about. He could not kill Buffy.
He could not kill her friends. He could not humans. All he could do was kill demons. This allowed the man inside to come forward. The demon was still there, but held in check by the chip. It was not the same as being connected. Spike still did things that the demon wanted to do. He still thought is was okay to kill people if they were making him crazy and he was still capable of finding a way to do it. But, the demon had a muzzle on it and the muzzle made it possible for the part of Spike, William, the man inside, to come forward. He couldn't change completely - if the chip had been removed - he'd probably have become like Angel did with the removal of the soul. But it did to a degree what Angel's soul did to Angel..which is why Spike didn't stay crazy as long as Angel did and did not have as much difficulty weaning himself off human blood as Angel. It's not that one vampire was better than the other, so much as just different and with different experiences.
If that doesn't make any sense - try this analogy, my grandmother has gone a bit crazy. But in her head she thinks she's perfectly sane. I think the same thing is going on here. Gunn thinks he's perfectly sane. He thinks he is saving the world. He does not see the collatoral damage nor cares. The old Gunn, ensouled Gunn, cared about collateral damage, he worried over the lives of his team. He wouldn't kill them and he put them first. This Gunn only cares about being the big leader, the important guy. It was after all what informed him in life - it was what was unresolved - his need to be important, to be respected, to be the leader not the muscel. Here as a demon, that informs who he is now. Just as for Angel what informed him was his need to be important, to be successful, to stand up to his father, to be his father - the authority figure. It still informs Angel to a degree - it's why he's so obsessed with the powers that be that he has literally become their puppet and it's why WRH has been able to manipulate him. He cares far too much about what God thinks and the Father's approval. And it is also why he's relationship with his son Connor is so interesting. And same deal for Spike - he is informed by three different things - respect of his peers, a desire to show his love to the object of his devotion, and a need to take care of his mother. Those were the things that were unresolved for Spike. They are his achillees heel. He will do just anything for a woman. Particularly if she bears some resemblance to his mother, yet is clearly not his mother. Weakness, illness, sickness, or vulnerability - still motivate him. As do power and strength. Like Angel - he is tormented by how the demon he'd become dealt with his parents.
He is also affected by peers, unlike Angel, Spike needs peer approval, he needs to be around people. He is constantly seeking them out. Yet, because he is insecure, he says he doesn't need anyone, doesn't care what they think, and is often sarcastic. It's often those who need other's the most who say they do not.
Illyria/Fred is another interesting character. She informs the others. She's powerful as a demon in strength, yet as she states, Fred the human shell that she took over is not just a shell, the personality was still there, the memories, the thoughts...what made Fred - Fred.
Illyria/Fred tells us a great deal about what a vampire is without a soul in this universe. The human is not erased. Fred much like William - had a strong personality and that personality is taking control of Illyria. Illyria is having troubles fighting it. Each time she sees someone or something that Fred cared about or loved, Fred fights her. It's what happens when a good person is taken over by something evil. Spike is a lot like Illyria. So is Angel. The demon and human are at war inside each of them. It's a neat metaphor for the human condition - because to a degree isn't that true of all of us? Isn't a war going on between our baser/selfish instincts and our kinder/nicer/better one's?
Then there's the Connor/Gwen relationship - they love each other but cannot touch without Gwen incinerating him. Much as Angel and Buffy could not touch without Angel becoming Angelus and his soul disappearing. The fear of contact - destroying one another. Or sexual repression, a common theme in these stories. And Spike's comment to Connor about the door always being open, unless there is a red handkerchief on it, meaning Connor probably won't want to come in...filled with sexual innuendo, because unlike Angel - Spike is not repressed when it comes to sex. He's not afraid of being destroyed, anymore than Nina appears to be.
My only quibble is the artwork. Not a fan of Runge. Much prefer Urru and Jeanty for that matter. Runge isn't as good at doing action sequences. His characters feel a bit stiff, somehow. But that's the only quibble. Everything else is working for me.
While I've got a pretty good idea where Whedon is headed with the Buffy books...I'm almost positive now that Harth is Twilight and Willow betrayed Buffy (yet again)...I've no idea where Lynch is headed. I don't know who the woman is that Gunn states he saw first - is this Illyria? Fred? or Gwen?? I'm guessing Gwen - since he had a fling with her and she's on the roof top saying she's sorry at the same time. But I could be wrong. I know Angel's not going to die - because he's the lead character and that would make it difficult to use him on the Buffy comics. You pretty much know for a fact that the writers are not going to permanently kill off Angel, Spike, Buffy, Faith, Illyria, Xander or Willow. Everyone else is fair game.