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shadowkatApparently, I'm the only one who couldn't access Lj at all from Friday night until about 10 pm today? Okay, admittedly I wasn't on it from 1:30pm to roughly 8:30pm. Went to see Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince.
Just came back from seeing Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince which was as enjoyable, possibly even more enjoyable than the book. I laughed a lot during both, not during the dark parts of course. My sense of humor may be dark but it is not that dark. I remembered the book well enough to follow the film without any difficulty whatsoever, but not well enough to notice how the film veered away from it. I was, in other words, blissfully oblivious of some of the complaints others online had regarding it. This re-affirms my belief that these films work better if you have not reread or read the novels recently.
Also enjoyed the trailers. 2012 looks like a lot of fun. Sherlock Holmes made me laugh quite a bit. Sure it looks hokey as all get out, but also a lot of fun. Was told that it has gotten abysmal reviews, but Robert Downey Jr is one of those actors that I will watch read the telephone book. I'll probably rent it and not wast time or money seeing it in the theater.
Picked up comics on Friday - enjoyed the Buffy and the Drusilla one. Juliet Landau, Brian Lynch, and Frank Urru have combined forces to create a two issue Drusilla After the Fall comic in the Angel series. Sure it is called Angel, but Angel doesn't appear in it. All Drusilla. And the art is quite lovely. The writing, spot on, and it may be the best comic I've read in a while. Lynch, hate to say this, is still putting the Buffy writers to shame - possibly because he was a fan of the tv series and like most fans, has an encyclopedic/anal retentive memory regarding it? While the original writers of the tv series, seem to have forgotten quite a bit. Landau also had a hand in the story, she not only came up with the idea, she also co-wrote the script and provided Urru with ideas regarding how it should be drawn - so we are literally seeing Dru and Dru's world through the actress who portrayed her, eyes. This provides a bit of support to my view that you can't technically count the comics as canon - since you lack the actor's pov. The actors like it or not, do bring something to the enterprise.
The art in the Dru comic in my opinion is a lot better than the art in the Buffy comics. The people are easier to tell apart for one thing, and their facial reactions are more defined. Also there's a depth and perspective to Urru's paintings that is lacking in Jeanty's. Urru is more of a realistic painter, his pictures feel more filmlike or three dimensional. As an artist, I find myself admiring his work, while Jeanty's feels at times amateurish to me. It's a subjective view - I know and based on my own background in painting and art, which granted is not extensive but...is there all the same. The color scheme is alos quite brilliant, all grays, except for a spot of color here and there - Dru's blue outfit and the blue dress she takes from the woman she kills, and Dru's demon eyes and blue eyes. We are clearly in Dru's pov.
Dru herself is portrayed as both eerily sane and eerily crazy. She is a force to be reckoned with and not easily put down. I particularly love this bit of dialogue in regards to Dru, during a rather interesting cat and mouse game that she is playing with the psychiatrist who believes he is the one in control:
Dru: "Moons after my second Daddy set me on fire, I saw in my head that my Grandmum/daughter killed herself and I haven't seen my son/lover since he chose that cheerleader, but that could have been the chip in his brain."
LOL! She does not call Buffy a slayer but rather a cheerleader. Which I find interesting - because that was what Buffy would have been if she had not been the slayer. She had been a cheerleader and homecoming queen prior to her calling. Dru is also putting Buffy down. Dismissing her.
A fan asked Whedon once if it was possible that Drusilla was a potential slayer and that was why she had the dreams. Whedon paused for a moment and said, not only was that an interesting idea, but yes, it was more than possible. I have a feeling he may play with it at some point, if Lynch/Landau don't do it first.
Also Dru interestingly enough blames Spike's desire for Buffy on the chip.
Earlier they state: "She believes she is a vampire, that she has lived for 150 years, that she had a passionate love affair spanning almost the duration...she's extreemly violent anything can set her off, very unpredictable. She is over sexualized...seems confused about the line between sex and violence."
The last line hits me. It fits vampires. And it echoes Buffy's line to Holden Webster - what is it with you vampires, always the same, with the sex and the death and the violence. Sex and violence.
Spike states in Lover's Walk - that's what I'll do, I'll get Dru, chain her up, torture her, be the man she loves. And it is what he tries to do with Buffy in CRUSH and to a degree in Season 6. Because for a vampire...that is sex - it comes hand and hand with violence. The line between the two is blurred. There is not line between sex and violence for vampires. That is the whole metaphor actually - the vampire gets off on the biting - it does the same thing that a sexual act would. In Fool for Love - Buffy looks at Spike after he describes biting and killing the Chinese Slayer - with revulsion and states: "You got off on it?"
He shrugs and throws back at her: "And you don't?" He's talking about sexual thrill. Faith says the same thing - "after a good slay, I get horny." And after she fights the vamps, she grabs Xander, and fucks him, their sex scene is admittedly a violent one.
Dru's killings feel almost graceful, sexual in character. She rubs her tummy, sways as if high. Satisfied. Then dances down the hall. Skipping like a school-girl. She is and has always been Angelus/Angel's creation. Carved by him. She is his dark daughter, as much if not more his as Connor is. When I think about Angel, I see Drusilla. How can't you? The result of sexual violence. She was chaste, innocent, when he raped, drove her insane, then turned her into a vampire. Twisting her dreams into nightmares. In a way what he did to Dru is worse than anything any of the other big bads did. Creepier. The knowledge that it was what he'd planned to do to Buffy after he lost his soul, creepier still. It's like Angel when he created Dru - he carved her into a doll that he could play with and would cater to his whim.
An eternal child-woman. It's ironic that he was the master puppeteer with her, and to a degree with Spike and others such as Penn as well, when as Angel he is at times the ultimate puppet - in the hands of the Powers and WRH and fate.
The Dru comic is in the end about power...it always comes back to power. Even Angelus' acts regarding Dru were about power. Dru has power in the comic. And so do those who have taken custody of her. They are fighting, Dru and these people over her. Trying to gain control. Dru wins. She breaks their control and dances out of their custody, leaving their dead and bleeding corspes in her wake. Bristling with power.
She starts out as having none, wrapped in a straight-jacket, drugged, and trapped in a padded cell. But as the story moves forward, she gets more and more power - they give it to her, first moving her out of the padded cell, then letting her take a shower, and each time she takes advantage, yet they do nothing, can do nothing. And the woman whom she'd overheard referring to her as a colossal waste of time, someone who should be put down, Dru takes down with barely an effort, donning her nice blue dress. Stating with a demon glare - "you are a colossal waste of time".
Dru is no puppet here, no doll to play with - although they want to, she breaks free, creating chaos in her wake.
Dancing.
Welcome back Lynch and Urru, you were missed. And a great big welcome to Landau, who is as deft a writer as she is an actress. In her photos, she reminds me a great deal of her mother, Barbara Bain of Misson Impossible and Space 1999, along with Martin Landau who was in both series.
Just came back from seeing Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince which was as enjoyable, possibly even more enjoyable than the book. I laughed a lot during both, not during the dark parts of course. My sense of humor may be dark but it is not that dark. I remembered the book well enough to follow the film without any difficulty whatsoever, but not well enough to notice how the film veered away from it. I was, in other words, blissfully oblivious of some of the complaints others online had regarding it. This re-affirms my belief that these films work better if you have not reread or read the novels recently.
Also enjoyed the trailers. 2012 looks like a lot of fun. Sherlock Holmes made me laugh quite a bit. Sure it looks hokey as all get out, but also a lot of fun. Was told that it has gotten abysmal reviews, but Robert Downey Jr is one of those actors that I will watch read the telephone book. I'll probably rent it and not wast time or money seeing it in the theater.
Picked up comics on Friday - enjoyed the Buffy and the Drusilla one. Juliet Landau, Brian Lynch, and Frank Urru have combined forces to create a two issue Drusilla After the Fall comic in the Angel series. Sure it is called Angel, but Angel doesn't appear in it. All Drusilla. And the art is quite lovely. The writing, spot on, and it may be the best comic I've read in a while. Lynch, hate to say this, is still putting the Buffy writers to shame - possibly because he was a fan of the tv series and like most fans, has an encyclopedic/anal retentive memory regarding it? While the original writers of the tv series, seem to have forgotten quite a bit. Landau also had a hand in the story, she not only came up with the idea, she also co-wrote the script and provided Urru with ideas regarding how it should be drawn - so we are literally seeing Dru and Dru's world through the actress who portrayed her, eyes. This provides a bit of support to my view that you can't technically count the comics as canon - since you lack the actor's pov. The actors like it or not, do bring something to the enterprise.
The art in the Dru comic in my opinion is a lot better than the art in the Buffy comics. The people are easier to tell apart for one thing, and their facial reactions are more defined. Also there's a depth and perspective to Urru's paintings that is lacking in Jeanty's. Urru is more of a realistic painter, his pictures feel more filmlike or three dimensional. As an artist, I find myself admiring his work, while Jeanty's feels at times amateurish to me. It's a subjective view - I know and based on my own background in painting and art, which granted is not extensive but...is there all the same. The color scheme is alos quite brilliant, all grays, except for a spot of color here and there - Dru's blue outfit and the blue dress she takes from the woman she kills, and Dru's demon eyes and blue eyes. We are clearly in Dru's pov.
Dru herself is portrayed as both eerily sane and eerily crazy. She is a force to be reckoned with and not easily put down. I particularly love this bit of dialogue in regards to Dru, during a rather interesting cat and mouse game that she is playing with the psychiatrist who believes he is the one in control:
Dru: "Moons after my second Daddy set me on fire, I saw in my head that my Grandmum/daughter killed herself and I haven't seen my son/lover since he chose that cheerleader, but that could have been the chip in his brain."
LOL! She does not call Buffy a slayer but rather a cheerleader. Which I find interesting - because that was what Buffy would have been if she had not been the slayer. She had been a cheerleader and homecoming queen prior to her calling. Dru is also putting Buffy down. Dismissing her.
A fan asked Whedon once if it was possible that Drusilla was a potential slayer and that was why she had the dreams. Whedon paused for a moment and said, not only was that an interesting idea, but yes, it was more than possible. I have a feeling he may play with it at some point, if Lynch/Landau don't do it first.
Also Dru interestingly enough blames Spike's desire for Buffy on the chip.
Earlier they state: "She believes she is a vampire, that she has lived for 150 years, that she had a passionate love affair spanning almost the duration...she's extreemly violent anything can set her off, very unpredictable. She is over sexualized...seems confused about the line between sex and violence."
The last line hits me. It fits vampires. And it echoes Buffy's line to Holden Webster - what is it with you vampires, always the same, with the sex and the death and the violence. Sex and violence.
Spike states in Lover's Walk - that's what I'll do, I'll get Dru, chain her up, torture her, be the man she loves. And it is what he tries to do with Buffy in CRUSH and to a degree in Season 6. Because for a vampire...that is sex - it comes hand and hand with violence. The line between the two is blurred. There is not line between sex and violence for vampires. That is the whole metaphor actually - the vampire gets off on the biting - it does the same thing that a sexual act would. In Fool for Love - Buffy looks at Spike after he describes biting and killing the Chinese Slayer - with revulsion and states: "You got off on it?"
He shrugs and throws back at her: "And you don't?" He's talking about sexual thrill. Faith says the same thing - "after a good slay, I get horny." And after she fights the vamps, she grabs Xander, and fucks him, their sex scene is admittedly a violent one.
Dru's killings feel almost graceful, sexual in character. She rubs her tummy, sways as if high. Satisfied. Then dances down the hall. Skipping like a school-girl. She is and has always been Angelus/Angel's creation. Carved by him. She is his dark daughter, as much if not more his as Connor is. When I think about Angel, I see Drusilla. How can't you? The result of sexual violence. She was chaste, innocent, when he raped, drove her insane, then turned her into a vampire. Twisting her dreams into nightmares. In a way what he did to Dru is worse than anything any of the other big bads did. Creepier. The knowledge that it was what he'd planned to do to Buffy after he lost his soul, creepier still. It's like Angel when he created Dru - he carved her into a doll that he could play with and would cater to his whim.
An eternal child-woman. It's ironic that he was the master puppeteer with her, and to a degree with Spike and others such as Penn as well, when as Angel he is at times the ultimate puppet - in the hands of the Powers and WRH and fate.
The Dru comic is in the end about power...it always comes back to power. Even Angelus' acts regarding Dru were about power. Dru has power in the comic. And so do those who have taken custody of her. They are fighting, Dru and these people over her. Trying to gain control. Dru wins. She breaks their control and dances out of their custody, leaving their dead and bleeding corspes in her wake. Bristling with power.
She starts out as having none, wrapped in a straight-jacket, drugged, and trapped in a padded cell. But as the story moves forward, she gets more and more power - they give it to her, first moving her out of the padded cell, then letting her take a shower, and each time she takes advantage, yet they do nothing, can do nothing. And the woman whom she'd overheard referring to her as a colossal waste of time, someone who should be put down, Dru takes down with barely an effort, donning her nice blue dress. Stating with a demon glare - "you are a colossal waste of time".
Dru is no puppet here, no doll to play with - although they want to, she breaks free, creating chaos in her wake.
Dancing.
Welcome back Lynch and Urru, you were missed. And a great big welcome to Landau, who is as deft a writer as she is an actress. In her photos, she reminds me a great deal of her mother, Barbara Bain of Misson Impossible and Space 1999, along with Martin Landau who was in both series.
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no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 04:58 am (UTC)I'm glad you enjoyed HP, I did reread the book before seeing the movie, but I enjoyed the changes: I think it keeps the movie a little bit unpredictable (which is always a good thing in a movie IMO), and of course it is necessary to making things tighter/shorter for the movie.
I enjoyed both the Buffy & Drusilla comics, but like you I particularly love Brian Lynch's storytelling, and I think he really enjoyed working w/Juliet (and I think she loved revisiting her Drusilla too).
But I loved seeing Oz again, I just wish it had been longer... I would love to have an all Oz comic of at least 6 issues....
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 02:51 pm (UTC)I think that Lynch/Landau and Whedon/Espenson have different perspectives and focuses on what stories they want to tell. Lynch is interested in exploring who the characters are, and as a fan of the series, he's interested in figuring out what they'd do next and how this affects them, as well as communicating his perspective on them and be entertaining. He's sharing his love with us. Landau feels much the same way. Whedon/Espenson are more interested in theme, or thematic message. They are more interested in discussing broader issues.
Another way of putting it - is Lynch is focusing on trees, and Whedon/Espenson are focusing on the forest.
Totally different ways of telling a story. What's most important to Whedon is the theme, the characters are important, but they are to an extent serving his theme. While Lynch isn't even thinking about message or theme or thematic arcs, he's just thinking about who the character is and what they would do in this situation.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 07:11 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-10 03:03 am (UTC)Torchwood - Children of Earth is an example of political done well, as is BSG. Where the story shines through and is not just there for the message. But David E. Kelly's Boston Legal and Picket Fences often felt like soap boxes for the writer's message. Aaron Sorkin did much the same thing in The West Wing and Studio 64 on the Sunset Strip.
Brian K. Vaughn's Ex Deus Machina is doing political well.
The problem with political is...well you have to do extensive research, understand the elements, and be clear. It is easy to lose the thread. Doing a political metaphor is very hard to do well. Particularly in comics. Just ask Alan Moore.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-10 03:50 am (UTC)Actually I always love a lot of humor period.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 05:43 am (UTC)Lynch, hate to say this, is still putting the Buffy writers to shame - possibly because he was a fan of the tv series and like most fans, has an encyclopedic/anal retentive memory regarding it?
Funnily enough, this is probably the birthplace of the other line that irks me. Though it could have been Landau who brought back the "the lame is caught in the blackberry patch" line. The repetition irked me instead of a feeling of homecoming, it just felt like a bit regurgitated. But those were the only two hiccups for me.
The art of course is brilliant and the coloring was done by the fabulous Fabio Mantovani. The story moved along a bit slowly so it left me a bit unsatisfied because it was largely set-up of mysteries. I found it interesting how they expanded on Drusilla's fighting abilities. She's never been that athletically lethal before - kicks? (Or am I forgetting something on AtS? I kinda doubt it, though.) Never seen it on TV. I wonder if that's something Juliet always wanted Dru to do or Lynch. It's an interesting addendum to Drusilla's character.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 05:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 03:08 pm (UTC)Don't have the edit function either. [Personally, I think the edit function is overrated and sort of silly - you end up getting multiple emails when people edit. You get the first version, then the second version. In one thread - someone edited their post five times - so I got five emails of the same post. LOL! I wonder if people realize this?]
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 11:21 am (UTC)It reminded me of the Willow & Tara comic Amber Benson wrote for Dark Horse back in 2002. There's a scene where Tara goes all scary-black-eyed and uses dark magic to burn a demon alive. I'm convinced Amber wrote that because she was jealous of Alyson having all the fun with Dark Willow, while Tara always had to be sweetness and light... Same here, I think. Juliet wanted Drusilla to have a really dramatic wire-fu fight scene.
I have to say I wasn't too impressed with the Drusilla comic, though I didn't hate it. The plot wasn't much more than "Drusilla is being held in a mental hospital, then kills lots of people", and Brian was definitely recycling a lot of his ideas from Spike:Asylum.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 11:56 am (UTC)And here I thought I was the only one. I've been hesitant to criticize because everyone is "Yay! Dru comic." It's not that it's bad. It just feels like nothing really happened and what did happen I've seen before.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 03:02 pm (UTC)In different episodes in S2, she'll refer to Spike as Daddy,
and others, herself as Mommy. And in Crush - she makes it clear that she sees him as her son. Her boy.
Later, in several S2 Angel episodes - including the Darla flashback, she refers to Darla as Grandmum, and in the episode where she turns Darla into a vampire -she's thrilled that she gets to be Darla's mum and Darla is now her daughter.
As Dru states in Crush - she wants the "family" back again. Spike sees it a little differently - he views Angel more as his brother in arms or gandsire, Dru sees Angel as her second-daddy.
I've been rewatching the episodes and catching it. Which may be why I'm more aware of it? (shrugs)
Oh, the "lamb is caught in the blackberry patch" is very Dru and Landau is probably the one who brought it. It also works if you think about it - she's making fun of the security guard.
You are the one who is caught in the blackberry patch, not me.
And it has the sing-song creepy calm that is Dru.
As for the dancing? Actually when she kills Kendra in Becoming - there's a sense of it. They did less of it in the series - but keep in mind through a good portion of S2 - Dru was ill. Towards the end, we didn't really watch her kill people - so much as heard about it. Nor do we see her kill everyone on the train in Crush. She'd have to have moved rather fast to have done it by herself. So, we don't really see how she kills people all the time. Just in snatchs.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 07:32 pm (UTC)You are the one who is caught in the blackberry patch, not me.
Huh? I know it's very Dru. It bothered me because it was lifted from an AtS episode. The rhyme is from AtS Reunion.
As for the dancing?
The acrobatic quality found in the comic in no way compares to what Dru does in the show. Pretty much ever. She uses her hands and her eyes. She's never done a kick before on the show. That's all I was saying.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 07:55 pm (UTC)Not sure I understand why the lamb caught in the blackberry patch bugged you? Because it was lifted from an ATS episode? Why is that a problem? Repetition? People often say the same things over again. "Exactly" is a perfect example. Lately I've noticed everyone at work uses it constantly. ;-)
I just thought is was very true to her character and to the actress - who I'm pretty sure improvised it at the time. She was known for improvising little bits here and there, that they liked and let slip in.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 08:00 pm (UTC)The only other time such repetition was done so baldly was in taking the line "The hardest thing in this world is to live in it" from The Gift and having Dawn repeat it in OMWF. It made sense, but it's a moment that kinda falls flat. It's better to reimagine the words like how they do in AtS Season 4 - first with Angel's speech about "heroes show the world what it can be, so it can become what it should be" (paraphrasing) and then how when he's about to slash Connor's throat he says how he's gonna prove it to him.
She was known for improvising little bits here and there, that they liked and let slip in.
Hmm. If so, then you'd think she could have improvised something new. I'm just saying the line lost points for me due to unoriginality. Of all the words to choose, considering the incredible uniqueness of Dru's voice, to repeat words already used by her, such a specific turn of phrase - it feels lazy. Something else could have been written that worked to resonate with what Dru had done and still be original. They just didn't do that.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 08:18 pm (UTC)I have a completely different perspective. Often when something is repeated in another context, it changes the meaning. Or it changes the interpretation. A lot of writers, myself included, make the mistake of thinking we have to come up with new lines or new ways of saying things - when often what was said before stated again, in a brand new context or in a different yet similar one is more effective. Sacrificing that for originality..is not always a good idea. That said when you repeat a line constantly...it can become cliche or grating.
Buffy's line to Dawn in the Gift - "the hardest thing in life is to live in it" (exact phrasing escapes me)
has one meaning in the Gift and quite another in OMWF.
In the Gift - it is a beautiful line, and we are in Buffy's perspective. We see it as this lovely statement. Resonating.
But in OMWF - again in Buffy's perspective, it rings false somehow. It grates. It is also ironic. Dawn is more or less throwing Buffy's own words back in her face. Stating - if you want me to live in this hard world, you have to too! Coming up with a new original line would take away that emotional impact - that meaning. It would be less disturbing.
Same deal with lamb caught in the blackberry patch.
In Reunion - Drusilla states it I believe to the lawyers at WRH. Here to the security guard. The repetition of the line - underlines the fact that she knows these aren't lambs. They aren't innocent. They see her as the lamb, as the person who can be controlled. Her rhyme is ironic - it's condescending.
It's similar to her repetition of the line "You're a Colossal Waste of Time". She's making fun of them. You think you caught me? That I'm this weak thing you can control? HA.
If they came up with an original line...that might be lost.
Anyway that was my perspective on it. (shrugs)
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 11:05 pm (UTC)Agreed. Granted, I haven't read the issue, but when I saw it quoted in the review, I went, "Wait, she actually said that?"
no subject
Date: 2009-08-10 02:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-10 01:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-08-10 02:38 pm (UTC)Ah. So it is the use of the "/" that is bugging you and angeria? Not the fact that she referred to them in those terms? I was completely and blissfully oblivious to it. Not sure why?
Hmmm.
I guess I just don't really see it as a mangling of the English language in the same way that Buffy does it. But that's because in business and law we will use slashes for specific words all the time - such as and/or. Although that's minor. As well as personal pronouns. And Dru does abbreviate and speak in a cockney accent. Not a proper British accent. She's not like Giles or even William before he adopted his North London slang.
I guess I also perceived it differently - in a positive manner as in oooh, that's interesting that she is referring to them in those term, what a new development regarding this character. As opposed to, oh that's not consistent with the character in the tv series. (Which is why I transcribed it above - because it seemed interesting to me, made me think about the character differently - enhanced a trait.)
no subject
Date: 2009-08-10 04:42 pm (UTC)I do like the dichotomy of referring to Darla as both her grandmother and her daughter, which they also did on AtS s2, since it amuses me how their family is so twisted (I also get a giggle out of Connor being both Spike's nephew and his uncle).
no subject
Date: 2009-08-11 02:12 am (UTC)I was sort of bewildered, because I was focusing on the cool dichotomy of referring to Darla as both grandmother and daughter, and Spike as both lover and son.
And oh yes, Connor being both Spike's nephew and his uncle, and Spike being Connor's nephew and his uncle.
The fanged four is a lot of fun to play with. I keep wishing they'd do more flashbacks with them in the comics. Shame the series didn't make it to a sixth season - we could have gotten more flashbacks with Angel, Spike and Dru and Darla.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 07:09 pm (UTC)Re: the Dru comic,like you, I'm sure 'the lamb is caught in the blackberry patch' line comes from Juliet.
Re
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 07:45 pm (UTC)Exactly. I agree. It's why I wasn't in love with Angel:After the Fall ( I gave them to a friend who I think may appreciate them more than I did since there's a rather good mini-arc involving Connor and Angel at the center of it), but did love Spike:After the Fall - which was a much smaller and more localized story, focusing on just about three or four main characters. I think Lynch gets a bit lost when he tries to do too many characters at once. And to give him credit - he did actually admit that at one point, stating that he didn't enjoy writing the Angel series as much as the Spike mini, because it was too big in scope. It's not where his skill lies.
I think the upcoming ongoing Spike series will probably suit his talents much better because the series can be split into discrete adventures rather than being one long story.
Agreed. From what I've read on Lynch's blog - his plan for the Spike series is to explore who the character of Spike is through his actions and interactions with other characters - with Spike:After the Fall and Spike:Asylum and Spike:Shadow Puppets as possible templates. I'm looking forward to it - because in some respects I prefer that type of story-telling in comics.
The big arcs - while enjoyable - if not told by someone with a deft hand, can get a bit confusing at times (see Buffy as an example).
Re: the Dru comic,like you, I'm sure 'the lamb is caught in the blackberry patch' line comes from Juliet.
Oh yeah. Definitely.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 08:10 pm (UTC)I wasn't in love with it either, though I adored the last issue for its Spangelness. I also felt that, though IDW kept insisting the story was canon, because Joss had endorsed it, Joss had actually told Lynch he was welcome to play with the characters as long as he brought them back to pretty much NFA square one at the end, in case Joss needed them himself at some point, and I think that hampered the story too. YMMV of course. I would really rather the whole canon argument was kept well clear of the comics anyway, whether Buffy or Angel.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-09 08:36 pm (UTC)I agree with you about the comics and canon - I'd also rather the writers did not keep saying they were canon to the tv show. (seems to stupid to me for a lot of reasons).
The whole canon thing regarding the comics, gives me a headache. And I think Whedon may have painted himself into a box regarding it - because IDW believes Angel After the Fall is canon. They state as much in their interviews. Granted bringing them back to ground zero opens things up for Whedon, but they still have the memories of what happened during it. Whedon is limited in what he can do with Spike and Angel in Buffy. He can't for example make them Twilight and still be on friendly terms with IDW and still have Angel After the Fall be canon. Sorry Joss, you can't have your cake and eat it too. IDW paid him for co-plotting Angel:After the Fall - he didn't do it for free. Also he's had to be really careful how he introduces those characters - again because of IDW.
I'm guessing part of the reason Angel and Spike have disappeared from the IDW comics recently is that IDW is sort of opening them up to Whedon's use and trying to stay concurrent, without doing an actual cross-over event. That and the fact that they are busy with other characters.
I also think Angel:Aftermath may be quietly forgotten.
From everything I've read - Kelly Armstrong's arc was not liked and they lost revenues. Also it is telling that the next comics in the series are entitled: Angel:After the Fall Epilogue, then Dru:After the Fall.
I think the only thread they are picking up from Armstrong's arc may be in regards to Connor. I didn't read them so wouldn't know. Really couldn't stand the writing. I'm picky when it comes to this verse. LOL!
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Date: 2009-08-10 07:00 pm (UTC)I think I have to try and be more picky too. I've bought pretty much everything IDW have produced so far, from the very beginning, but really a lot of it is pretty terrible.
Have to admit, I'm not sure I believe the reason why Spike has virtually disappeared from the Angel comics is anything to do with any crossover. Scott Allie is always pretty adamant that such a think won't happen - when he's not griping about giving Angel and the other AtS characters away, that is.
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Date: 2009-08-11 02:08 am (UTC)And to be honest, I think it has more to do with business/real world issues - such as Lynch's availability and marketing and other things.
But, I do find it interesting that both characters have left the comics for a bit, considering Whedon has stated in more than one interview - that he is waiting on IDW to use the boys, to not disrupt IDW's tales, but he won't wait forever - we need to see our boys.
(That's close to a direct quote.)
That does not mean a cross-over. What it may mean is using them in such a way that it does not conflict with the story in IDW. (ie, the readers of IDW who are also reading Buffy don't start thinking okay..this makes no sense, obviously these stories don't exist in the same universe and if Buffy is canon, why am I bothering with the IDW ones. OR vice versa. I'm not saying everyone thinks that way. I don't. Some of us don't see the comics as canon regardless of who says they are. But there are fans who do see it that way.)
That's why I know there's no way Whedon is going to make Spike or Angel a central character in his Buffy story. They'll have a cameo much like OZ does. But more pivotal. But they aren't going to recurring like Riley or Amy or Warren or Twilight or Faith. And that's again because of IDW.
As an aside, I really prefer Chris Ryall to Scott Allie. Allie is incredibly whiny.
Oh, I've picked up some really bad Dark Horse and IDW Angel/Buffy comics myself. The Spike vs. Dracula tales were...well, disappointing. While I like Peter David for the X-men comics, he doesn't quite work in the Angelverse. His Spike feels a bit off somehow.
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Date: 2009-08-11 10:13 am (UTC)(That's close to a direct quote.)
Yes, I've seen that one. However, after the recent DH web comic, I'm fairly convinced Joss has already done all he means to do with Spike and Angel in the Buffy comic, which is to use them as a way of showing what's going on with Buffy's emotional life, because outside her dreamscape, nothing else is available to him.
As an aside, I really prefer Chris Ryall to Scott Allie. Allie is incredibly whiny.
Oh dear me, yes! Chris Ryall hasn't once risen to the bait when Allie has said something derogatory about IDW. Definitely the better man.
The Spike vs. Dracula tales were...well, disappointing. While I like Peter David for the X-men comics, he doesn't quite work in the Angelverse. His Spike feels a bit off somehow.
I suspect this is because like so many men, David prefers evil Spike or comic relief BtVS season 4/AtS season 5 Spike to serious Spike of BtVS seasons 5-7 (and parts of AtS season 5). I quite enjoyed the parts of that series set in the past, in spite of some glaring historical errors, and I loved the way the series was framed as being told by Spike during the course of a routine correspondence with Darla (because unlike many people, I don't believe the two hated each other and like to think Spike and Dru kept in touch with Darla over the years). I hated the last issue however, which seemed to serve no purpose except to make Souled Spike look like an idiot.
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Date: 2009-08-11 04:53 pm (UTC)Agreed. I think the attempt to keep the audience guessing is actually hurting the story. Because if Twilight shows up as Xander or Giles - they haven't built it at all. Sure I could fanwank a few clues here and there. But honestly? It feels off. Also, it's getting hard to care.
It feels at times that Whedon will do whatever is necessary to serve the plot or theme, regardless of whether this is organic to the character or comes from them. So it is getting difficult to trust the storyteller. And that's not a good thing when you are paying to continue to read the story. Sooner or later?
You'll give up. Yes, there are issues that are rather brilliant in there but...
However, after the recent DH web comic, I'm fairly convinced Joss has already done all he means to do with Spike and Angel in the Buffy comic, which is to use them as a way of showing what's going on with Buffy's emotional life, because outside her dreamscape, nothing else is available to him.
That's my guess, although Allie and Whedon keep denying it. I don't think he'll give me what I want - which is closure of the B/S relationship - because I think he may well believe he already did that. And in a way he did. He may be right, doing more would be unnecessary at this point.
Agree with you on Spike vs. Dracula, the flashbacks with Darla, I rather liked. The last issue I found sort of silly and out of character.
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Date: 2009-08-09 11:13 pm (UTC)Nope, not the only one. I wasn't checking very often, but it didn't work for me when I tried Friday night or Saturday afternoon, and for most of the day Friday, I wasn't getting email notifications for comments.
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Date: 2009-08-10 02:53 am (UTC)[Although I do have eowyn icons on my hard drive, my favorite of the female LOTR characters.]
I'm thinking it may depend on what servers we were on.
Or when we tried to access? Some people apparently got through, others got their posts eaten and still others
could not get through at all. Very weird. I used DW but of course only five people appeared to be on it.