Writing and other stuff

[shadowkat]

It's a pretty day, sunny and warm, with a nice breeze. I find myself awash with envy for people who are rich enough that they can afford a balcony or deck or backyard in the city.
All I've got is a measley fire escape, which I've tried in the past with little success. Did take a walk though, picked up watercolor and drawing supplies, a small scketch/writing notebook, chocolate, and groceries. Streets were unduly crowded with strollers (often double) and groups of people, with kids dashing back and forth between the legs, cars, and bikes. Decided not to attempt the Atlantic Antic - NYC's largest street fair, which has about 7 million people visit it each year. It takes place all along Atlantic Avenue - which is about ten - fifteen blocks from where I live. Bands, food, street fair...and way too many people.

This morning on the way to the farmer's market, a film crew was literally perched on my front stoop. They were filming a scene in the sidewalk and stoop next door. The camera was perched in front of my gate. I have no idea what film they were doing. Except that the old guy looked vaguely familar, reminded me a little of Roman Polanski, which is of course impossible. Could have Harvey Keitel. I've no idea. Suppose I could have asked them what film or tv show they were doing, but I just did not care. I've become jaded after 14 years of living in NYC and having to go around film crews blocking my path. They are more annoying than interesting. In fact, in my head I've begun to equate them with cockroaches and pigeons, a necessary evil of the NYC landscape. Interesting but also annoying. I doubt this was anything major since there were no police blockades or heavy security.

Have gotten abysmally little done this weekend. Spent most of it reading - a fanfic online. Was rather good and interesting. Quite brilliant in places. And No porn in sight. And multi-character. With lots of interesting edges. Only flaw is well, a personal pet peeve that I feel compelled to share in the hopes that people will read this and stop doing it. I've seen it in pulp novels and thought, damn, doesn't anybody edit these things anymore? It's simple to fix.

A rule you should never break on pain of death: use the character's name or the personal pronouns such as he, she, it, etc. Do not use a descriptor word such as jock, vampire, fireman, blond, brunette, Watcher, witch, demon or slayer unless you are in the head of someone who does not know the character's name and only knows their profession.

Examples: As a fireman, Dave was used to saving people, but Joey was different. Joey and Dave shared a history. She had cheated on him with his best friend. Their divorce had been brutal and now she had full custody of his kids and wasn't even granting him any visitation. Dave did not know why she was in the burning building and he realized how easy it would be to let her burn. The building was about to collaspe. No one else knew she was even in it. But, Dave went back into the burning building to save Joey. He found her lying half unconscious on the floor in front of him. Dave bent down to pick her up. Joey grabbed the fireman's shoulders as he lifted and took her out of the burning building.

Okay, who took her out? Dave? Or the fireman? See how it takes you out of the narrative??

Joey lay in a heap on the floor, her lungs filled with smoke. Out of the darkness, a huge man in a firefighter's outfit appeared. Joey grabbed the fireman's shoulder as he lifted her and took her out of the burning building.

In that sentence - it is appropriate to use the word fireman. Joey doesn't know who it is.
And we are in Joey's point of view.

Another example: Spike was happy until Willow said, "Sure Buffy, go out with Spike and patrol, I'll be fine. It is not like I'll be doing anything dangerous while you are away." The vampire clenched the muscels in his jaw, but followed Buffy without comment.

The use of the word vampire takes me out of the story. I am going at a clip and the suddenly I hit the stop sign - "the vampire". I know Spike is a vampire. The reader knows this. You the writer do not need to remind us. And we are in Spike's point of view. Would you think of yourself as say the blond or the teacher or the writer? (The writer clenched her jaw as she went back to work on her post.) I don't think so.

I will share a secret with you that was taught to me ages ago and repeatedly - do not be afraid of repeating the following words: said, he, she, the name of a character...readers jump over them. They expect them. Personal pronouns are our friends. Use them frequently. They do not sound repetitive. So for that matter is the word, said. It works better to say, Spike said, "Bugger all." Then to state: Spike cursed, "bugger all." Said is fine. Cursed is just repetitive. When you use too many descriptors you take the reader out of your story.

These are little things that are relatively easy to fix. I've had more than one brilliant piece of fanfiction ruined for me, because of those little things.

Comments

[ponygirl2000.livejournal.com]

Totally agree with your peeve. What particularly drives me nuts is the hair colour descriptor. I don't know if it's particular to the fandom but it seems like a LOT of Buffy fics call characters "the blonde," "the redhead" etc.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

What particularly drives me nuts is the hair colour descriptor.

Agreed. At least this fanfic didn't do that. (thank god or no matter how well it was written, I'd have given up). My tolerance for the ones that use the hair color descriptor is close to nonexistant. I usually give up on them after 10-15 pages. I can handle an occassional slippage of "the vampire" or "the slayer" - I just substitute the character's names in my head. And as long as they do it only once or twice a page, the story is readable (this one only does it a couple of times in each section - which leads me to believe that the writer is afraid she is sounding repetitive and has subconsciously slipped it in. (Her beta should be slapped upside the head however. ;-) ) But the hair color descriptor - I stop reading the story or just give up.

One fanfic writer used hair color to describe Buffy, Spike and Angel in a sentence. It was "the blond was comfortably wedged between the brunette and the blond vampire."
ARRGH. That's just bad writing.

I don't know if it's particular to the fandom but it seems like a LOT of Buffy fics call characters "the blonde," "the redhead" etc.

I don't read enough fic in other fandoms to know how widespread it is. Haven't seen it in any of the fic I have read in other fandoms - ie. House, Torchwood, or Doctor Who. But that doesn't mean they don't do it.
(shrugs). I have no idea why so many Buffy fanfic writers do it. Appears to be mostly female writers, and those who do romance. Which leads me to believe that they are picking up the bad habit from some of the poorly written romance/paranormal novels that have been published. Since the novel they are using as a template was published, they may think that what they are doing is okay? I don't know. It's bewildering.

[candleanfeather.livejournal.com]

Reading fanfiction is certainly time consuming.

Your pet peeve is one of mine too and I generally agree but I'd add a lttle nuance to this statement "Do not use a descriptor word such as jock, vampire, fireman, blond, brunette, Watcher, witch, demon or slayer unless you are in the head of someone who does not know the character's name and only knows their profession." It's not only a question of knowledege but of perception too, especially in the Btvsverse: for example how does Giles think of Spike. Is he simply Spike or is there always the noun "vampire" in the way he thinks about him? How does Spike think about Giles (or Riley, or Xander, or Buffy...)? How does he identify them? What's the dominant point in his perception of the person? In fact you can show how a character's POV progresses about another character by going slowly, for example, from "it" to "he" and from the use of the noun (vampire, human, Watcher...) to the use of the surname.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

[Edited Version]

shadowkat67 (170.28.222.2) wrote:

Oct. 5th, 2009 12:14 pm (local)
It's not only a question of knowledege but of perception too, especially in the Btvsverse: for example how does Giles think of Spike. Is he simply Spike or is there always the noun "vampire" in the way he thinks about him? How does Spike think about Giles (or Riley, or Xander, or Buffy...)? How does he identify them? What's the dominant point in his perception of the person? In fact you can show how a character's POV progresses about another character by going slowly, for example, from "it" to "he" and from the use of the noun (vampire, human, Watcher...) to the use of the surname.

This is very hard technique to pull off successfully.
Because you have to be consistent and stay in that character's pov throughout. You also have to make sure that you are not slipping it in places that are inappropriate. (such as my example above.)

If you aren't consistent, you confuse the reader and take them out of the story. Which is what happened here.

Also, you have to know what type of pov that you are using. Is it third person close? (in which case yes, Giles would call Spike an it) or is it third person distant? (he would not call Spike an it.)

Then, add to this a third layer - would Giles at this stage call Spike an it or a vampire? And can you use something other than the reference to demonstrate that in a consistent manner?

It's like my example above regarding the fireman.

Dave would not refer to himself as a fireman.

Joey might, even if she knew Dave, because he is acting as a fireman in that capacity.

Rule1: When in doubt? Always use personal pronouns and the character's name.

When it is done effectively - you don't notice it. If it is not effective - you do. That's the trick.

Example:

Willow said, "Hello, Spike."

Giles glanced at Willow then looked at the vampire and rolled his eyes. The vampire walked past Willow and sat on the top of the counter swinging its feet. 'Spike', Giles thought, dismissively, turning his back on the vampire and going back to work. 'Another vampire that I wish Buffy staked ages ago.'

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

See in the example :

Willow said, "Hello, Spike."

Giles glanced at Willow then looked at the vampire and rolled his eyes. The vampire walked past Willow and sat on the top of the counter swinging its feet. 'Spike', Giles thought, dismissively, turning his back on the vampire and going back to work. 'Another vampire that I wish Buffy staked ages ago.'

I do not have Giles refer to Willow as the witch.

Look at example two:

Willow said, "Hello, Spike."

Giles glanced at the witch then looked at the vampire and rolled his eyes. The vampire walked past the witch and sat on the top of the counter swinging its feet. 'Spike', Giles thought, dismissively, turning his back on the vampire and going back to work. 'Another vampire that I wish Buffy staked ages ago.'

This is confusing to the reader and should never be done. Giles first of all would never refer to Willow as the witch. Spike might, but Giles wouldn't. Also it is confusing - because we don't know who is being referred to.

If you do this:

The witch said, "Hello, Spike."

The watcher glanced at the witch then looked at the vampire and rolled his eyes. The vampire walked past the witch and sat on the top of the counter swinging its feet. 'Spike', Giles thought, dismissively, turning his back on the vampire and going back to work. 'Another vampire that I wish the slayer staked ages ago.'

Very confusing and inconsistent.

And then there's this:

Willow said, "Hello, Spike."

The watcher glanced at the witch then looked at the vampire and rolled his eyes. The vampire walked past the witch and sat on the top of the counter swinging its feet. 'Spike', the watcher thought, dismissively, turning his back on the vampire and going back to work. 'Another vampire that I wish the slayer staked ages ago.'

Also incorrect - we are in Giles' head, he's not going to refer to himself as the watcher. Also who is this watcher? Whose pov are we even in? It's confusing and it takes the reader out of the story.

[candleanfeather.livejournal.com]

I agree with all your examples (and in fact your answer reminds me of a little book by Raymond Quenaud, Exercices de style, where the writer writes the same passage in every possible style. It's very funny and brilliant)and I agree on the fact it's not easy to do and that you have to stay very consistent to prevent from slipping. But I just wanted to say that it's a possible technique offering interesting perspectives about the POV of the characters.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

But I just wanted to say that it's a possible technique offering interesting perspectives about the POV of the characters.

Oh, I got that and do agree. I just wanted to make sure that I clarified the difficulty for anyone reading the comments. Because I think a lot of writers particularly fanfic writers attempt it - with that purpose in mind and fail miserably. I'm not saying you shouldn't try hard things - that is what fanfic is for, but you should probably make sure you have a *really* good beta when you do it.

One fanfic writer who did pull it off is herself_nyc but she's also had years of creative writing classes, and is a professional.
So that may have aided her.

I know of a couple of published writers who have pulled it off - Jim Butcher did, but he was using first person point of view and it is a lot easier to pull of in first person than third person. And the book Smilla's Sense of Snow did it - but that also managed to pull off shifts in time and place. Really hard to do.

[vicki_rae.livejournal.com]

Yes and it's maddening. Proper use of POV can do lovely things to a story. Deep POV is amazing.

And don't get me started on abuse of speach tags. Gah.

There are fanfic writers who have the potential to be really good but being a terrific storyteller just isn't enough. The basics of good writing have to be there too.