Violence and Food...from Carousel to Life to Food Revolution..a mixed bag post

[shadowkat]

Watching Carousel in the background - forgot what a dark musical that is. The darkest of the Rodgers and Hammerstein oeuvre. It's about a Carousel barker who falls in love with a lovely gal in New England. He gets killed and goes to heaven. And is sent back to help his daughter whose in trouble. But before that happens, he has to tell his story to the star keeper in heaven who is responsible sending him back. In the story, we learn that he was abusive to his pregnant wife, stole, and didn't really work. He comes back to help his daughter who was hurt much like he was and could go down his path. It's a disturbing musical...on a lot of levels, that I hadn't noticed before. I'm willing to bet that one out of three women have either experienced physical or emotional abuse from a boyfriend or father or husband or male boss/teacher etc. Two of my great-grandmothers - one on my father's side, and one on my mother's were beaten to death by their husbands (my great-grandfathers). At least two aunts were either emotionally or physically abused by theirs. And I've heard the excuses. They are all the same. Usually out of anger. Or their own fathers were like this. Or lack of control. I think it's about power mostly...and having none, so they struck out. But it does not excuse it.

Our media gives us mixed messages...as if we ourselves can't quite decide. Is it okay to use violence to resolve our problems? Is it ever okay? And if not, why do we feel compelled or satisfied when we see it resolved in this manner either in a video game or tv show or a film?

Also watched Life on tv this weekend...it's reassuring in that it shows violence exists in nature as well. Perhaps the desire to resolve issues with violence is in the DNA. It is deeply embedded in our genetic code. Animals kill, fight, and chase each other and other animals. Insects do as well. Nature is extraordinarily violent, yet beautiful in its violence, there's a grace to it that is difficult to describe. It reminds me of watching the Jerome Robbins dances from West Side Story, yet here we see the grace of the cheetah landing on the ostrich or the lizard grabbing a pray mantis with its tongue or a pair of birds doing a mating dance of joy across a pond.

Then there's the battle of Jamie Oliver's Food Revolution - a British Reality Series that has been brought to the US. I remember the hubbub in the UK when he did it over there. Basically he's tackling the school lunch program - an issue that ex-PResident Clinton has attempted to change as well. So Oliver is not the first to attempt to change it. Not by a long shot. The on-going battle to change how American's eat has been going on for five years now. People are anything if not stubborn. Particularly about their eating habits. It took a nightmarish stay in an inner city emergency room to change mine. So I'm in no place to judge. Oliver makes it sound easy - but what he and Clinton did not realize is something I knew ages ago. Which is - it's about money. I ate horribly when I was unemployed because the food that cost the least - was processed, pre-packaged foods. Things like hot dogs, hot dog buns, KFC fried chicken, corn on the cob, crackers and peanut butter, popcorn, hamburger meat, pasta,
and bread. These are easy to make and cheap. If I ate out? I'd grab the dollar meal at McDonald's or from a vendor - which was a hotdog or a hamburger. Salad's cost $6-10.
On the reality series - they make the same point, the superintendent of the school and the woman in charge of the school lunch program tell Oliver that while his food looks great and the kids clearly like it, it is much more expensive than the processed foods they've been getting at a discount from their providers. They can't afford to buy and maintain fresh food in bulk and on a daily basis. Also they have to deal with the USDA which provides them with funding for the lunch program. USDA is the United States Department of Agriculture - whose first priority is not school kids, but agricultural companies and farmers. So yes, you have to have two breads at lunch - because that makes the wheat farmers happy, and meat - because that makes the cattle ranchers happy, and so on. My grandfather who had been a cattle rancher and trucker hated the USDA and the farm subsidies, he said it benefitted the wrong people and was corrupt. He hated big government. Used to have fights with my own father over the topic. He wasn't completely wrong about that. But I suspect it is more complicated than that. At any rate the USDA was originally set up to help farmers and eventually became about distribution of food. Here's a link for more information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Agriculture

So while Oliver has the right idea, he is fighting a difficult battle. Plus unlike England,
fighting this in the US is sort of akin to well going to England, Germany, France, Netherlands, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Australia and Canada and convincing all of them to change their eating habits. I remember discussing with Europeans vacations to the US, this is before the internet, so it may not be the case anymore (at least I hope not). The conversation goes like this:

European: I'm going to the US for two weeks.
ME: cool, where?
European: We're planning on seeing all the big sites.
ME: Okay, which ones?
European: well, we're starting in NyC, then we are going to the Grand Canyon, then to Disney World, and finally to see Hollywood.
Me: Uh, are you flying everywhere?
European: No, we're driving.
ME: you realize that NYC and Hollywood are opposite sides of the country, right?
European: Of course - we've mapped it out, it'll just take maybe two -five days driving time, we'll stop by the Grand Canyon on the way and maybe see Yellowstone National Park.
Me: Uh...(I'm usually speechless at this point and have decided not to ask how they plan on fitting Disney World into the itenary)

The Grand Canyon - just so you know? Is about the size of Wales, all of Wales. The US is a huge country. I haven't seen all of it and I've traveled through quite a bit. It takes two days just to drive from NYC to South Carolina - and that's considered a short distance. And they are small states on the same coast. Plus every State has it's own laws and guidelines.



At any rate, to say Oliver's plan is ambitious is an understatement. NYC is having its own long-running and absurdly amusing battles on the topic. The latest? The NYC School Board admist much protesting banned home bake sales at school. PTA sponsored bake sales not during school hours were okay, but student run bake sales using home baked goods were banned. Nor were home-baked items allowed in the classroom. You could however bring pre-approved processed items such as salt free/low fat Fritos and low-fat/diet Pop Tarts. Meanwhile, they had managed to finally ban sodas from schools, but are struggling to get Snapple out the vending machines.
I'm not joking. This is real. The other fight is the ban on salt in restaurants. Table salt is permitted, but restaurants are no longer being permitted to use salt in preparing food.

Sigh. People bewilder me. Apparently mother nature did not deem it fit to give everyone common sense. And particularly not those of us who decide to become politicians.

Comments

[petzipellepingo.livejournal.com]

Oliver makes it sound easy - but what he and Clinton did not realize is something I knew ages ago. Which is - it's about money. I ate horribly when I was unemployed because the food that cost the least - was processed, pre-packaged foods. Things like hot dogs, hot dog buns, KFC fried chicken, corn on the cob, crackers and peanut butter, popcorn, hamburger meat, pasta,
and bread. These are easy to make and cheap. If I ate out? I'd grab the dollar meal at McDonald's or from a vendor - which was a hotdog or a hamburger. Salad's cost $6-10.


Nods. Which is exactly why the lady he visits had a freezer filled with pizza - for $.50 a box.

they make the same point, the superintendent of the school and the woman in charge of the school lunch program tell Oliver that while his food looks great and the kids clearly like it, it is much more expensive than the processed foods they've been getting at a discount from their providers. They can't afford to buy and maintain fresh food in bulk and on a daily basis. Also they have to deal with the USDA which provides them with funding for the lunch program. USDA is the United States Department of Agriculture - whose first priority is not school kids, but agricultural companies and farmers. So yes, you have to have two breads at lunch - because that makes the wheat farmers happy, and meat - because that makes the cattle ranchers happy, and so on.
Also yes. I remember when Reagan was President that catsup was declared a "vegetable" in the school lunch programs.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Nods. Which is exactly why the lady he visits had a freezer filled with pizza - for $.50 a box.

It's also why she was in tears when he was telling her what she had to buy, and why he was getting reamed. He should have been checking prices and listening to the school board rep who was talking about the "cost".
I mean - Oliver is stating that the pizza is crappy pizza, but does he have any idea how much good pizza costs?

The bodega next to me is a perfect example. It started out with great organic and healthy foods and biodegradable/earth smart cleaners, but as time wore on and recession got worse - the food got more and more processed, less healthy, and the cleaners more basic. We now have canned
vegetables, canned soups, packaged and processed quick items. And almost no fruit or vegetables. You are lucky if you can get eggs or milk any more.

I'd love to see an episode of one of these series where they compare prices.

I remember when Reagan was President that catsup was declared a "vegetable" in the school lunch programs.

Oh, yes, I think Regan argued that it was from tomatoes...while his critics stated, no, actually a fruit, not a vegetable or something along those lines - and plus sugar, lots and lots of sugar.
And of course they had to use Heinze or whomever they had a contract with at the time.

[candleanfeather.livejournal.com]

I've watched a documentary on children's alimentation in school in the USA once. The authors took several exemples in different states, one of them making efforts to better the food served there to the children. But in the rest of them ... I was scared and baffled, it was clear that every concern for health was totally abandonned in favour of economic interest.

But the USA aren't the only country hit by this : junk food and the health problem that come with it have become a problem in France too: the rates of obesity amongst young children and teens are rapidly increasing.

I don't believe the choice of eating greasy, low quality food is only due to poverty, it's a factor but education and habits are IMO as important factors as money. I don't know about the situation in the USA, but in France you can buy several type of vegetables for a low price. And I remember, three years ago, when I teached for a few weeks at uni, I ate more than once at the universitarian restaurant; for the same price you could have saussages or burger with fried chips or a relatively balanced meal with salad and vegetables, but the great majority of the students went for the greasy anyway.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I don't believe the choice of eating greasy, low quality food is only due to poverty, it's a factor but education and habits are IMO as important factors as money. I don't know about the situation in the USA, but in France you can buy several type of vegetables for a low price. And I remember, three years ago, when I teached for a few weeks at uni, I ate more than once at the universitarian restaurant; for the same price you could have saussages or burger with fried chips or a relatively balanced meal with salad and vegetables, but the great majority of the students went for the greasy anyway.

True. But here, as I was explaining below...it is more expensive to buy fresh vegetables and meats than processed foods. Part of it is economic, actually a great deal of it is due to economic conditions. Stores such as Costco and Walmart and Sams Club specialize in providing discounts for processed items or non-fresh items which you can buy in "bulk".
They don't tend to carry the fresher items or if they do, they tend to be more expensive.

You can get a bag of lettuce - but it is ice-burg lettuce, which has the nutritional value of water - not bad, but not as good as spinach or argula or raddachio or mesculain or romain. Same deal with green beans - you can get canned or frozen for half the price as fresh.

We are a consumer driven economy.

So, while it is partly habit, it does not help that the cheaper items are also the items that we've been taught to prefer. They are faster to prepare, and comfort us.

Changing that pattern of behavior for people is difficult - if you can't get the economic portion of the equation taken care of first. And I'm not sure how we can do that - how we can make french fries more expensive than salad or fresh vegetables. I tend to buy the more expensive fresh vegetables, but I can afford to do that now, and I also haven't taken a serious vacation in ten years or own a home. ;-)

[candleanfeather.livejournal.com]

Read your other replies : the price difference between crappy food and healthier one is really impressive. Can you find easily canned natural vegetables or fruits, or frozen ones at a reasonnable price or are there only processed ones too?

I often rant at my country, but I should be more grateful for the indeniable goods it offers to its inhabitants.

By the way, I know we've only exchanged a few posts, but if you ever wanted to take some vacation in France for a change, I'd be glad to receive you for a few days.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

By the way, I know we've only exchanged a few posts, but if you ever wanted to take some vacation in France for a change, I'd be glad to receive you for a few days.

That's incredibly sweet of you. Wish I could take you up on it - because I haven't been to France since the 1980s and adore the country and the people. But time and money has kept me from visiting lj friends - there's a few in England and Wales that I'd love to meet, as well as Canada, and across the US, not to mention other places. I truly envy the people who have the ability to do this. ;-)

If you are ever in NYC please be sure to let me know, as well.

Read your other replies : the price difference between crappy food and healthier one is really impressive. Can you find easily canned natural vegetables or fruits, or frozen ones at a reasonnable price or are there only processed ones too?

Yes, there are canned/frozen natural vegetables and fruits - without too many additives - through health valley and Amy's Organic - but they are hard to find outside of Whole Foods or Organic markets, and tend to be more expensive than the regular variety. Also - they aren't as nutritious as fresh vegetables. I learned this the hard way a few years back.

The problem is the healthier food is harder to come by, it's more expensive and tends to be in scarce supply. It also depends on where you live. If you live in New England - such as say Conneticut or New York or Vermont - then yes, you get fresh produce and it's cheaper. If you live in the midwest, such as Ohio, Illinois, Missouri, Nebraska, and Iowa - food is more expensive and harder to come by.

It's a bit like comparing France to what a region in Germany or Russia may be able to get. Or say England to Siberia.

[candleanfeather.livejournal.com]

But time and money has kept me from visiting lj "friends " That's such a shame. I hope things will improve on the money front for you.

If I ever come back to New York (and hopefully there'll be another occasion) I'll let you know, it would be so nice to meet you. Thank you for the kind offer.

[rahirah]

I'm gonna put in a good word for Costco, here - I'm sure that this varies by location, but the ones in Phoenix have a pretty good selection of fresh fruits and vegetables. The last time I went, for example, they had not just iceberg lettuce, but romaine, 'heirloom' red and green leaf lettuce, spinach and at least one of the fancy spring greens mixes. It's definitely cheaper to buy produce there than to buy the same items at the grocery store. Oftentimes their produce is better quality, too - I won't get avocados anywhere else these days. Also, Costo buys eggs and milk from local dairies. As huge soulless corporations go, Costco is one of the better ones.

Which isn't to say that fresh produce there still isn't more expensive than canned or frozen vegetables - it is - but the prices seem to be in proportion to Costco's prices for other things. The only real downside is that when you buy four pounds of radicchio, or whatever, it can be difficult to eat it all before it spoils. (Which is why I was cutting up mass quantities of mangos the other day - we bought a flat of them at Costco, and I had to freeze most of them for future use.) We found that investing in a box of those plastic bags which retard vegetable spoilage was money well spent - they really do work, and they've more than paid for themselves in produce saved from going bad since we started using them.

[ann1962]

I found this blog a while ago. A teacher eats lunch at school with the students every day, with photos.

One of the shocks of moving to the US, was the surprising lack of quality of food. Not just processed either, but fresh meat and vegetables, fruits. The first time I cooked Tyson chicken I thought it was bad because the amount of draining of liquid from the meat. I tossed it, and began again, and only then realized that was the way the meat was.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link. Recently in Illinois or Michigan - a bunch of students went on strike against their lunch program. I saw it on the national news. They said that they were protesting the horrible lack of nutritional value in their school lunches. They wanted healthier choices than fried chicken nuggets, pizza, french fries, mashed potatoes, etc.

One of the shocks of moving to the US, was the surprising lack of quality of food. Not just processed either, but fresh meat and vegetables, fruits. The first time I cooked Tyson chicken I thought it was bad because the amount of draining of liquid from the meat. I tossed it, and began again, and only then realized that was the way the meat was.

Not to mention all the packaged foods and mixes we have on the shelves. I remember in England and Australia - you couldn't find these processed items. A cake mix? No way. And in London when I was studying theater over there with a bunch of fellow students over a summer - people were craving I Can't Believe it's Not Butter - ie fake butter, because London did not have it, along with Crystal Light Lemonade.

NY isn't that bad - you can find fresh chicken and organic/local. It's all the rage right now. BUT - it is twice as expensive as Tyson chicken.
Organic or fresh poultry costs $8.99 in comparison to Tyson's $4.99.
(I just saw the difference in the grocery store.) And steak? Same deal.
$12.99 for non-processed, organic, naturally feed angus beef vs. $2.99 for regular supermarket beef. Same deal with vegetables and lettuce - the good stuff, the fresh stuff costs twice as much as the bagged, processed, not so good - frozen variety.

Which are you going to buy if you are counting pennies?

When I look at people on the street - I can tell right off the bat who has money and who doesn't. The one's with money are thin, riding bikes, and in great physical shape, those who don't aren't.

And most people don't like to spend money on food - or health care, they'd rather spend it on something fun or entertaining.

[liliaeth]

I don't know, is processed food really that cheap compared to decent food in the US?

I've been wondering about the cost of the one against the other myself, because I'm both on a budget and on a diet. Thing is, I find it cheaper to buy fresh food, than it would be to buy prepackaged meals. (while I would have said the opposite before I started actually buying fresh vegetable and meat.)

Watching food revolution I guess I had two shocks. One, the kid actually getting breakfast at school and two, the idea that anyone, and I do mean anyone, would consider Pizza breakfast food.

Even when I was at boarding school, breakfast was bread with what's the word, meat, cheese and or jam or choco. The idea of warm food for breakfast, unless it's eggs or french toast is plain out alien to me. Even pancakes was an evening food, not breakfast. But pizza? That's just crazy.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

It is actually cheaper in the US. I know because I went from eating the processed food to the fresh food.

Pre-fresh food? My grocery bill was maybe $40 at the most. Usually way below that.

Fresh food? My grocery bill is close to a $100 a week and that's for just one person. And I don't eat that much.

The pizza in the fridge? Cost 50 cents per pizza. So she could feed a family of five on two pizza's for a $1. Soda - a pack at discount, costs maybe $1. That's a six pack.

Home-made pasta with salad for a family of four? A bag of lettuce can cost upwards to $5. Pasta? $2.99 - sometimes $3.99. Sauce? About 6.99
depending. A sale price? 3.99. Add cheese - that's about $5.99.

So the crappy pizza = .50 cents
The pasta dinner = $ 30

And left-overs? IF You can do the pizza for breakfast or lunch=less than .50 cents
make new breakfast with say eggs, and/or cereal - that's an additional
$10
Lunch - salad with fresh yogurt - another $5-10.

So if you go with frozen pizza? you spent $3 for three meals
If you went with the healthy stuff? $40

In the US, when you enter any of lunch place - the salads cost twice as much as the pizza. I know this for a fact because I can't eat Pizza - it will give make me incredibly sick - so I have to get the healthier items.
Frank's in Jamaica - the salad costs $6, the Pizza costs $3.
At McDonald's - the hamburger and fries - $1. The healthy salad - $6.

NYC is actually easier than most places, in PA - if you don't find a Whole Foods or order deliveries from the net, you are stuck with local fare...which is processed.

[liliaeth]

Wow, I like pizza, but even before my diet, pizza was a treat food. It's pretty expensive here, compared to fresh food.

I can't give you exact numbers like that, but if I bought a premade meal, including pizza, that would cost me at least 5€. If on the other hand I bought fresh food, that'd be about 2.50 on meat for one person. (unless it's on sale, which is what I usually do, in fact the store sells food that needs to be eaten within four days at 30% of the price, put that in the freezer and it'll easily last long enough that I can eat meat every few days. Case of choice rather than budget, I'm not big into eating meat every day) Veggies, that's 2€ for about a kilo of tomatoes, 4€ or there about for a bag of frozen paprikas (which I use in about anything, I generally buy one bag a week)and possibly a bag of frozen broccoli, cabbage, or other veggies. (and in this case, the frozen veggies are just as high quality, if not more so, than the fresh food, they just last longer and they're frozen seperately, so you can take out as much as you need and put the rest of it back in the freezer to use for another meal)

Pasta, depends, regular bag of 500g uncooked, is about 0.50€, tricolore which is my favorite 1€. Rice, 1€.

This week the supermarket had a special action for ratatouille ingredients for 4€. (that includes two tomatoes, two courgettes, garlic, paprikas, and a few other things I can't say of the top of my head)If I buy one can of mushrooms (which I also use in just about anything,) that costs me about 0.49€, so make that about 8 cans of those to last me for two weeks, in other words 4€. One can of tomatoes, also about 0.50. (and yeah, my mom nags to me about the canned food as well, but for one person it's just easier*g* and I don't like cutting veggies all that much*eg*)

One pot of red cabbage, which holds enough for two up to three people, 1€.

One bag of small potatoes, holds 700g, costs about 2€ and feeds up to three people. In my case that means I can eat it for two days.

So in my case well, I can either buy fourteen premade meals which are likely to still leave me hungry afterwards, and that's the cheap ones, 5€ a piece, aka 70€ in total, and have at most 10€ left to buy anything else, or I can buy the fresh food, which'll last me two weeks (and gives me the opportunity to feed my mom when she comes visiting once a week) and also buy fruit,catfoot and littter box stuff, cornflakes, fresh bread for morning, plus stuff to put on it, hygiene stuff and occasional other treats plus other stuff for about 80€.

Of course I only go shopping every two weeks to limit my expenses so...

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

It is shocking, isn't it? I remember when I was in England and Australia back in the 1980s and early 1990s - the cheap food was fresh food, the expensive food was packaged and processed items, like frozen pizza. While in the US? It is the opposite.

I think part of the reason for this is the cost of distribution.
Some areas, such as Huntington, West Virginia - do not have access to the fresh foods that an area such as say New York City or LA might. The fresh foods have to be brought in by truck - that's gas.
Plus, supermarkets have to freeze them or maintain them. Processed foods are cheaper to ship and maintain. The other reason is corporations - the bigger the company, the cheaper the discount.
We have supermarkets here that I think would blow your mind.
Costco is basically the size of three warehouses and people get to buy discounted items in bulk. They go once or twice a month, clip coupons, and buy say 50 pizzas for $5 dollars. That will last a month. You can't buy lettuce in bulk - it will go bad.

Another thing that will most likely blow your mind - is the all you can eat restaurants with super-size portions for relatively little. Better restaurants that serve healthier food and healthier portions cost twice as much.

[ann1962]

Where I live now, all of the food has to be trucked in. There is a farmer's market but it isn't cheap, and because of the soil and the summer heat, a lot of fruits and veggies just don't grow here. Corn and soybeans which is what is farmed here, neither of which is meant for human consumption. When we moved here from CT, our grocery bill went up about $20 a week, and for almost the exact same items. I would have thought it would have been more expensive there, byt it is here. Beef is really expensive here too, yet there are beef farms nearby. It's trucked out, processed and then shipped back processed. That 15% brine that is in almost all the meat nowadays has to be injected somewhere else.

I'm glad Oliver is trying this out. If nothing else to educate people about the realities of food production.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I'm glad Oliver is trying this out. If nothing else to educate people about the realities of food production.

So am I. I think the American people really need to know what is going with the USDA - and how it works. I loved that section - frustrating as hell though. Also could have a backlash - in that it reinforces the view that big government is bad news. But the problem with the USDA is really that it is trying to do two conflicting things at once - provide nutritious food to Americans, and aid farmers and food corporations with their costs. The latter was why it was created. The whole nutrition bit was added later, and not it's prime directive, unfortunately.

And good point on corn and soybeans - Indiana has the same problem, it's a farm state, but it's produce no one can eat. Soy and corn are used for fuel and cattle. Not humans. Same with Kansas - which is mostly ranch land and land for providing food for livestock.

The East Coast and West Coast are the ones that provide food for human consumption. And half of that is exported.

I remember when I interviewed for a legal job with Iowa Beef Packers - finding out all the production issues and that most of the meat was taken from other states.

[liliaeth]

That is freaky.

Now Belgium is pretty urban, but even then we have a lot of small farms. I guess climate and soil wise we're pretty well off. Add to that a government that actually interferes a lot and well... farmers still complain about how they don't get enough money for their food, while consumers complain about how they have to pay too much*g* And both sides demand for the government to do something about it.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Belgium is comparable to maybe New York State food wise - which has local farms, fishing, urban - or maybe Conneticut. The east coast states have the majority of the local farms and orchards.

The middle states don't. They are farm states but their crops are for fuel (corn =ethanol) and food for livestock and cattle.

In Pennsylvania - which does have local farms but a high rate of unemployment, the farmers markets are pricey, fruit isn't that fresh, and the poverty level in some areas is astonishing. For many children - school is where they get their meals.
They don't get anything at home. And anything preferable to nothing.
People rely on fast food and cheap processed foods.

Each state in the US is different, with completely different needs and guidelines. Trying to tackle the US problem is a bit like Jamie Oliver tackling all of Europe. It's fascinating to watch...but it is ambitious in scope.

[midnightsjane.livejournal.com]

Jamie Oliver has done this before, in England. He encountered a lot of the same problems and naysayers there, but perservered, and convinced the British government to make significant changes to the school menus.
I really don't believe that fast food and processed food is that much cheaper than buying good fresh food; if you can cook, you can make inexpensive meals using nutritious ingredients. I agree that it's hard if there isn't the availability of the fresh food, but the sight of kids eating salt laden fatty chicken nuggets and nary a green veggie in sight is heart breaking.