This that and Whedon on Wonder Woman...
Dec. 8th, 2010 11:33 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkatWhy is it I get more comments to Buffy posts than anything else? 101 comments. Albeit with only 5-6 people.
Trying to figure out what to get my incredibly difficult to buy for sibling and his family. (Granted I'm hard too.) And tomorrow is my Dad's birthday...and I suck, because I didn't get the b-day card out until today. He's going to be 75. Hard to believe.
So far - have decided to get neice per sibling's list to parents: BOB book and School House Rock DVD.
Kidbro - The Earth book by John Stewart or David Byrn's Bicycle Diaries. And sisinlaw - some cookbook on grilling?
Read a bit about the struggle to do a Wonder Woman movie in EW...which was revealing.
Quotes by Whedon in the article:
Whedon (in response to why it's so hard to get a movie made about her): "She's a girl, Hollywood is still twitchy about that."
Whedon on why it was difficult to create a movie about her or piece a picture together: "She has no city," Whedon says ticking of a list of problems he had with the character when Silver hired him to write and direct a Wonder Woman film five years ago, "she has no great rogues' gallery (of returning villains). And she's distant from people in a way that makes it hard to create identification. Spiderman is a nerd. Batman is a pain. But Wonder Woman is from an era of where superheroes were supposed to be like Greek gods. She's above us and different from us. That makes it hard to make her emotionally relevant. I tried and some people think I succeeded, but none of them were the people I worked for."
[In 1972 - Wonder Woman graced the cover of MS. Magazine - as Wonder Woman for President, she was a huge feminist icon in the 1970s and beyond (in a way that no other female heroine truly has been to a broad mainstream audience). Gloria Steinman put her on the debut cover. And Joanne Edgar who wrote the story admits, "when I was growing up, one Superman comic was worth three Wonder Woman comics."]
Five screenwriters were hired prior to Whedon. In 2003 - Laeta Kalogridis was hired and pitched a story about a daughter looking for her mother Wonder Woman."
In 2005, Silver hired Whedon. (Two years before the Buffy comics, and one year after Angel cancellation)
Whedon: "Tone was an issue," he says, "People still think of Wonder Woman as kind of silly. They have fond memories [of the TV show] but think of her as kind of goofy lady. In my version she had an outfit that was more classically Greek in the warrior sense. She wasn't going to be wearing an American flag."
Since she had no iconic villians, he looked around elsewhere..."The god Eris had a son name Strife. When I heard that name, I thought, Perfect. I didn't make it about how we view women. I never got hard-feminist with it. I didn't need to. She's a goddess. She's stronger than Steve Trevor. We get it." Instead his script was more about "how giant conglomerates are eating the world and how we are all puppets underneath them. Maybe that's what [Warner Bros] didn't like about it. They never did tell me."
"For me, Wonder Woman was basically Angelina Jolie. She spends a lot of time flying around. She works in a lot of different countries. She's very global. And she's appalled by the way people treat each other."
[Mathew Jennison, who co-wrote the last known Wonder Woman script in 2007 - just as Whedon was leaving the project (and starting on the Buffy comics)....states: "It's just much easier to sell a male action hero to the studios than a female one. "
Director Karyn Kusama who did Aeon Flux -states: "They're worried that boys won't go see it. And maybe they are even worried that girls won't go see it. Because the superhero concept really is a male thing."]
Whedon: "If someone else can come along and create a cool Wonder Woman movie and pull it off that's great. But I don't necessarily think we need a Wonder Woman movie per se. We need more female heroes. We need 'wonder women' movies. But Wonder Woman may not be the wonder woman we need."
******
It's interesting to me that he decided to do the whole Twilight arc and hired Brad Meltzer who'd been doing Superman comics at DC to co-plot at the exact same time his Wonder Woman script got rejected.
And then Dollhouse came along, and he grew bored of the idea and disillusioned with the comics comparing them to a weighty albatross...and finally now, with Avengers, he's jumped ship and was quoted as stating the above. It's an interesting insight into the writer and I think explains a lot regarding his latter works.
It's equally an interesting take on our culture's attitude towards women. Or rather the entertainment industry's attitude. But that this changing, Warner Brothers shook up its comic book development team by making Diane Nelson DC Entertainment President. And Angelina Jolie has been able to break through the gender barriers on several films, plus well, Hit Girl on Kick Ass and the most recent Nikita reboot - where we have not one but two female heroines.
There's hope and it's better than it was.
Off to bed. Work and tomorrow will be busy. And stressful.
Trying to figure out what to get my incredibly difficult to buy for sibling and his family. (Granted I'm hard too.) And tomorrow is my Dad's birthday...and I suck, because I didn't get the b-day card out until today. He's going to be 75. Hard to believe.
So far - have decided to get neice per sibling's list to parents: BOB book and School House Rock DVD.
Kidbro - The Earth book by John Stewart or David Byrn's Bicycle Diaries. And sisinlaw - some cookbook on grilling?
Read a bit about the struggle to do a Wonder Woman movie in EW...which was revealing.
Quotes by Whedon in the article:
Whedon (in response to why it's so hard to get a movie made about her): "She's a girl, Hollywood is still twitchy about that."
Whedon on why it was difficult to create a movie about her or piece a picture together: "She has no city," Whedon says ticking of a list of problems he had with the character when Silver hired him to write and direct a Wonder Woman film five years ago, "she has no great rogues' gallery (of returning villains). And she's distant from people in a way that makes it hard to create identification. Spiderman is a nerd. Batman is a pain. But Wonder Woman is from an era of where superheroes were supposed to be like Greek gods. She's above us and different from us. That makes it hard to make her emotionally relevant. I tried and some people think I succeeded, but none of them were the people I worked for."
[In 1972 - Wonder Woman graced the cover of MS. Magazine - as Wonder Woman for President, she was a huge feminist icon in the 1970s and beyond (in a way that no other female heroine truly has been to a broad mainstream audience). Gloria Steinman put her on the debut cover. And Joanne Edgar who wrote the story admits, "when I was growing up, one Superman comic was worth three Wonder Woman comics."]
Five screenwriters were hired prior to Whedon. In 2003 - Laeta Kalogridis was hired and pitched a story about a daughter looking for her mother Wonder Woman."
In 2005, Silver hired Whedon. (Two years before the Buffy comics, and one year after Angel cancellation)
Whedon: "Tone was an issue," he says, "People still think of Wonder Woman as kind of silly. They have fond memories [of the TV show] but think of her as kind of goofy lady. In my version she had an outfit that was more classically Greek in the warrior sense. She wasn't going to be wearing an American flag."
Since she had no iconic villians, he looked around elsewhere..."The god Eris had a son name Strife. When I heard that name, I thought, Perfect. I didn't make it about how we view women. I never got hard-feminist with it. I didn't need to. She's a goddess. She's stronger than Steve Trevor. We get it." Instead his script was more about "how giant conglomerates are eating the world and how we are all puppets underneath them. Maybe that's what [Warner Bros] didn't like about it. They never did tell me."
"For me, Wonder Woman was basically Angelina Jolie. She spends a lot of time flying around. She works in a lot of different countries. She's very global. And she's appalled by the way people treat each other."
[Mathew Jennison, who co-wrote the last known Wonder Woman script in 2007 - just as Whedon was leaving the project (and starting on the Buffy comics)....states: "It's just much easier to sell a male action hero to the studios than a female one. "
Director Karyn Kusama who did Aeon Flux -states: "They're worried that boys won't go see it. And maybe they are even worried that girls won't go see it. Because the superhero concept really is a male thing."]
Whedon: "If someone else can come along and create a cool Wonder Woman movie and pull it off that's great. But I don't necessarily think we need a Wonder Woman movie per se. We need more female heroes. We need 'wonder women' movies. But Wonder Woman may not be the wonder woman we need."
******
It's interesting to me that he decided to do the whole Twilight arc and hired Brad Meltzer who'd been doing Superman comics at DC to co-plot at the exact same time his Wonder Woman script got rejected.
And then Dollhouse came along, and he grew bored of the idea and disillusioned with the comics comparing them to a weighty albatross...and finally now, with Avengers, he's jumped ship and was quoted as stating the above. It's an interesting insight into the writer and I think explains a lot regarding his latter works.
It's equally an interesting take on our culture's attitude towards women. Or rather the entertainment industry's attitude. But that this changing, Warner Brothers shook up its comic book development team by making Diane Nelson DC Entertainment President. And Angelina Jolie has been able to break through the gender barriers on several films, plus well, Hit Girl on Kick Ass and the most recent Nikita reboot - where we have not one but two female heroines.
There's hope and it's better than it was.
Off to bed. Work and tomorrow will be busy. And stressful.
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no subject
Date: 2010-12-09 09:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-12-09 03:26 pm (UTC)I'm still not sure what's 'Wonder Woman' about that. Interesting concept, but... Wonder Woman? Wasn't original Wonder Woman's story that she left the island because she felt that with WWII, there was actually a need to participate in the world?
I know that his take upset some people, but when I read Babylon 5 guy's take on WW for his comic, I could actually see the sense of it. That being that someone had stripped Diana of knowledge of herself and through story she discovers that she's Wonder Woman. There could have been some interesting metaphors to play with that, ones that actually involve her being a woman.
states: "It's just much easier to sell a male action hero to the studios than a female one. "
This is true. Unfortunate, but true. And sadly they were better at creating them years ago (Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor) than they are today.
But I don't necessarily think we need a Wonder Woman movie per se
Lord. I get what he's saying here, but... good grief. It's like "if I can't do it, I can't think anyone else can." ::head desk:: It's almost enough to have me rooting for David Kelly (although, for many reasons, that project seems doomed to failure).
no subject
Date: 2010-12-09 05:29 pm (UTC)Wasn't original Wonder Woman's story that she left the island because she felt that with WWII, there was actually a need to participate in the world?
It was, but one of the rules was that Wonder Woman had to take place in present day, no references to WWII or Nazis, and be contemporary in focus. Which meant they want a reboot or updated version.
That being that someone had stripped Diana of knowledge of herself and through story she discovers that she's Wonder Woman. There could have been some interesting metaphors to play with that, ones that actually involve her being a woman.
I think the Wonder Woman comics may have done that arc. Not positive. But I vaguely remember reading about a plot arc similar to that.
This is true. Unfortunate, but true. And sadly they were better at creating them years ago (Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor) than they are today.
The article states that they were worried about creating another Electra or Catwoman...but that doesn't always happen.
Angelina Jolie's Tomb Raider series...did sell (although I found it to be more male fantasy...but whatever). Currently we see more of these characters and roles on tv than on film, when in the past it was oddly the opposite.
Lord. I get what he's saying here, but... good grief. It's like "if I can't do it, I can't think anyone else can." ::head desk:: It's almost enough to have me rooting for David Kelly (although, for many reasons, that project seems doomed to failure).
Had a similar reaction. Although David E. Kelly suffers from the same syndrom as Whedon when it comes to writing recently, as does Sorkin, ie - I'm using this as an opportunity to jump up on my soap box and impose my views on all of you. (Sigh, fame does weird things to tv writers.)
no subject
Date: 2010-12-09 06:02 pm (UTC)They did. That's what I meant. It was a year or two ago in the comics, but after Whedon had dropped out of the movie. I have to say the B5 guy's idea makes more sense to me in terms of Wonder Woman than Joss's does. Joss's is an interesting idea, but what in the frell did Wonder Woman ever have to do with corporations?