Favorite Season of Buffy?
Feb. 28th, 2012 01:38 pm[Figure this should be safe and won't get any pedantic arguments/fights. But you never know with the Buffy fandom. At any rate, mind my blood-pressure in responses, I have a sinus head-ache from hell and a hellish work week with crazy bureaucrats and pedants. This is a mild distraction.]
[ETA: Almost wish I asked where you are in the viewing of series. Are you brand new to the series, watched it live in the 1990s-2003 (and since seen it 20 times or more, okay that may be an exaggeration...then again maybe not), or only watched the first three seasons all the way through and haven't seen most of the later seasons yet...although not really sure it matters one way or the other..]
[Poll #1822636]
[ETA: Almost wish I asked where you are in the viewing of series. Are you brand new to the series, watched it live in the 1990s-2003 (and since seen it 20 times or more, okay that may be an exaggeration...then again maybe not), or only watched the first three seasons all the way through and haven't seen most of the later seasons yet...although not really sure it matters one way or the other..]
[Poll #1822636]
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Date: 2012-02-28 06:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-29 12:07 am (UTC)There are episodes in S3 that I love. But most of them are stand-a-lones.
Which is interesting. S4 was the same way. As was S7. While oddly I preferred the arc episodes in S1, S2, S6.
Hmm. Interesting. Thanks for responding. Love your icon.
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Date: 2012-02-28 06:57 pm (UTC)As I believe later season fans probably follow you (as the Spuffy fandom generally prefers the later seasons when Buffy and Spike are together), you're likely going to get a lot of no's for season 3 and a lot of seasons 5, 6, and 7 fans chiming in.
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Date: 2012-02-28 11:17 pm (UTC)It does upon re-watching. Although I think it grated when I watched it live way back in 1998-1999. Can't quite remember to be honest. I do vaguely remember getting aggravated by it, and a bit bored, and I shipped B/A at the time.
As I believe later season fans probably follow you (as the Spuffy fandom generally prefers the later seasons when Buffy and Spike are together), you're likely going to get a lot of no's for season 3 and a lot of seasons 5, 6, and 7 fans chiming in.
So far that appears to be the case.
Honestly, I can't be sure. I know there are more than two people who loved S3 on my flist - because we've debated it. They just aren't taking the poll.
And I can't remember if people loved that season, or preferred S5. I think the vast majority preferred S5. But I can't remember. So far it appears the vast majority did prefer S5, but only 28 people have taken the poll. (shrugs)
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Date: 2012-02-28 06:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-28 11:22 pm (UTC)Curious, which season do you think hold's up the best for re-watching? I'm guessing 5, from your vote above?
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Date: 2012-02-28 07:54 pm (UTC)Those were my impressions. I guess eventually I'd like to see S5-S7 completely, but I wasn't thrilled about S4's second half, and so I remain dubious about how much I would enjoy the later seasons.
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Date: 2012-02-28 11:27 pm (UTC)Curious...have you watched the entire series? (ie. all the episodes?)
Have you watched all of Angel?
Because that does make a difference. The series becomes incredibly serialized towards the end of S4. To the point that you really can't skip episodes without losing something. Whedon does that in all his series, he dumps the whole episodic formula halfway through and goes straight serial.
I'm not sure there's any true stand-a-lone's after S4. Although I may be wrong about that. I haven't watched it in a while.
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Date: 2012-02-28 08:24 pm (UTC)I love the two last seasons' dark themes and I was tempted to say season 5 because of FFL, my favourite episode, but, eventually I picked season 4 because to me it's the best season, writing-wise, with true masterpieces ("Hush", "Restless"), a great episode that paved the road for Spuffy ("Something Blue") -- and Restless paved the way for so many storylines, including Dawn's--, and of course there was the wonderful "A New Man" in which my beloved Ethan Rayne appeared for the last time.
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Date: 2012-02-28 11:32 pm (UTC)S4 probably has the most innovative and experimental writing in the entire series and the most interesting stand-a-lones. You have Restless, Hush,
Something Blue, A New Man, Pangs, Who are You, Superstar (granted not a favorite of mine by a long shot - but I can make a case for it), The Freshman.
Restless and Hush alone make it interesting.
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Date: 2012-02-28 08:50 pm (UTC)It's harder to pick my favorite. I voted for 7 above just so it would get a vote, but on a given day I could go equally well with 2 or 5. S6 would have been my favorite if not for the magic/drugs stuff.
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Date: 2012-02-28 11:42 pm (UTC)I know someone else loves S7 on my flist. Just can't remember who.
It is hard to pick a favorite. I went with the Season that resonates for me the most, and I find the most comforting and easiest to re-watch. I don't know why that's S5. It may be the emphasis on the mother/daughter, sister relationship, along with the whole theme of duality. I loved the duality theme. I'm also in the minority - in that I loved Glory as a villain. I thought she was hilarious, and the whole Ben/Glory bit inspired. I also liked the Knights...no one else did. But I did. I thought they were funny. (I sort of saw the horror bits in Buffy - the big bad's as being intentionally campy and tongue-firmly-in cheek.)
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Date: 2012-02-28 09:38 pm (UTC)I see that your poll has Season 5 as most people's favorite, but I couldn't bear Glorificus, I thought she was an incredibly lame big bad... and I totally hated the Knights fighting throughout the last episodes.... So again, I loved a lot about Season 5, but it is NOT a favorite of mine.
I would rate them both below seasons 2 and 6... and even 7.
Season 1 is clearly the worst).
But my season of Buffy is 4! I know, I'm like the only one (LOL).
a) I loved having Spike back
b) I loved the sci-fi vs magic theme... it was right up my alley
c) and most of my favorite episodes were from season 4.
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Date: 2012-02-28 09:48 pm (UTC)Apart from that, i like a lot about this season - but i'm also bored by a lot of stuff that season.
Season 6 is the best TV time i ever had, it gave me back a small amount of hope that pop culture isn't just fascistic narcissism but indeed a possible and legitimate way to express views on the human condition in a meaningful way.
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Date: 2012-02-28 10:31 pm (UTC)1) Season 5
2) Season 2
3) Season 6
The next four are subject to shuffling given my mood:
4) Er... Season 7. I guess. Maybe.
5) Season 3
6) Season 1
7) Season 4
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Date: 2012-02-28 11:58 pm (UTC)And it changes based on mood. To date though...S5 remains consistently my favorite for some reason. Not sure I can satisfactorily rank the others.
While I loved the stand-a-lone episodes in S4, and the whole clockwork orange bit with Spike was admittedly inspired...I could not stand the super-solider plot with Adam - just too cliche and dumb. Admittedly? I've never been a fan of Frankenstein. If Lindsey Crouse hadn't left mid-way through...I think it may have worked better, can't tell. For me - S4, S1, and S7 had the least interesting big bads and through plot-line.
S3...I think the overall arc and B/A stuff didn't quite work for me either.
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Date: 2012-02-28 10:53 pm (UTC)It's weird, because I love Faith, I love the Mayor, I love lots of things about it. It's true that "Amends" is my least favorite episode, bar none — even though it has flashbacks, which I usually adore! I guess that Angel inexplicably coming back and doing tai chi all over the place really made the season drag for me.
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Date: 2012-02-29 12:03 am (UTC)It's odd, I remember loving Amends when I first watched it - when it actually first aired. Now I can't stand it. And have no idea what I saw in it. It doesn't re-watch well...for me...for some reason. (shrugs).
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Date: 2012-02-29 12:50 am (UTC)As someone commented above, I think the audience for the first three seasons was different from the audience for the last three.
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Date: 2012-02-29 10:44 pm (UTC)Also, weirdest thing? 8 people state S3 is their favorite under question 1, but only 4 under question 2. Which makes me wonder if they perceived question 1 as stating that S3 was a favorite, but not necessarily their favorite.
And there's a bunch of people who just can't pick.
Very happy I'm not in market research...I'd go batty.
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Date: 2012-02-29 01:50 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-29 10:48 pm (UTC)And Lover's Walk is hilarious in places...the scene with Spike/Joyce and Spike/Joyce/Angel never gets old, nor does the fight scene in the shop or Spike's bit with Willow. The rest though...does wear thin after repeated viewings.
And I think you make a good point - "at this point in my life...S3 lacks the funny" - it's true, it does. S6 works for me...more, as does 4.
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Date: 2012-02-29 03:13 am (UTC)1. 5
2. 3/4 tie
3. 2
4. 6
5. 1/7/9 tie
6. 8
Today, anyway. I may think differently tomorrow.
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Date: 2012-02-29 05:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-29 06:18 am (UTC)I never win because S4 is the season I've re-watched the most - well parts of it. Best funnies and wierdest episodes all in one place.
Answering your other question I watched it well after it had finished without a glance at fandom - until I became so frustrated with S6 I started reading websites for answers.
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Date: 2012-02-29 02:42 pm (UTC)I think rankings of the seasons depends on which area of the fandom you fall into. The group who loves the high school bit, or the group that hates the high school bit. If you hate the high school bit - you probably got coaxed into watching the series in S4, and only watched the first three seasons to fill in the gaps. If you loved the high school bit...you probably gave up somewhere around mid-season 6 in frustration. Of course that's a simplestic view. There's a wide spectrum out there as you can see from the responses. Really can't
generalize.
And there's a lot more people on my flist who liked S3 or preferred it to the other seasons than there appears from this thread or poll. They just are ignoring me. ;-)
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Date: 2012-02-29 08:27 am (UTC)Of the early seasons, I think season 2 might be objectively better than s3 -- stronger central arc, more thematic coherence -- but season three seems a lot more varied. I almost always prefer messy ambition over strict coherence, mileage may vary. S3 gets a lot of mileage from great one-offs. Unlike many, I don't actually mind Amends, though it's not a favourite. I don't think there are any s3 episodes I overtly dislike. I like the Willow/Xander clothes fluke plotline which many people detest. I like Faith and the Mayor, etc. But it feels a little jumbled, the episodes sort of jumping suddenly from one idea to the next.
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Date: 2012-02-29 11:57 am (UTC)I feel like season 3 is the most consistent season they ever did quite honestly. With other Buffy seasons there are usually at least 2 or 3 of what I would consider really poor episodes that I would happily lose, whereas it's only Beauty And The Beast that I really dislike from season 3. Well and I'm not a fan of The Zeppo either but that's just my own lack of interest in Xander as a character, I can appreciate that it's still a well-done episode. But there's no Bear Bad, Goodbye Iwoa, Where The Wild Things Are, Shadow, Gone, Older And Far Away etc to sit through that year. Seasons 3 and 5 hit the most consistent standard for me
I always find season 2 a bit of a mess in the first half with many of the stand-alones (Some Assembly Required, Reptile Boy, Inca Mummy Girl, Bad Eggs) actually being worse than season 1 which had at least had a sense of fun and trying things out for the first year of a new show. Whereas some of those season 2 episodes were just plain bad. I feel like you could get an amzing season of season 2 if it was cut down to something like 15 episodes because when it was good it was REALLY good, but taken as a whole there's no way it could ever be the best season for me when there's so much horrdenous pacing to work through. Even the second half of the season suffers from that with Go Fish popping up right before the finale.
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From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2012-02-29 02:35 pm (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
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Date: 2012-02-29 11:34 am (UTC)Other than that seasons 3 (closely followed by season 5) is probably closest to my favourite which always seems very unpopular these days. I mean I can understand people getting bored by B/A in season 3, but in most episodes it's literally just one or two scenes so I'm always surprised that it was enough to ruin the season for people. I suppose season 3 just has the most stand-alone episodes that I enjoy. Season 4 also has some great stand-alone episodes, but the main arcs focus on the Initiative and Riley fails so hard for me that it could never be a favourite, whereas I found myself enjoying Faith a lot. Although looking back at it now her fall from grace could have been handled a lot better in some ways as it felt quite abrupt in places, but at the time it really worked for me and I think Eliza brought enough charisma to the part to make watching Faith even more interesting when she turned dark (although I do think she strugged a bit in her intro). That final fight between her and Buffy in Graduation Day is one of the shows best fight sequences ever IMO
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Date: 2012-02-29 05:55 pm (UTC)It also has a lot to do, more so actually, with the themes and the structure...if you like the high school stuff and the whole graduating from it bit, than sure, if you don't...not so much. So for some, myself included, it has a lot to do with whether YA stories appeal specifically high school ones. I know a lot of people who wouldn't touch the series or take it seriously until it left the high school environment and others who felt the high school environment was too unrealistic and "Hollywood" - they couldn't get past the fact that everyone in the cast looked like they were in their 20s and 30s but Gellar and well Dusku who was a year younger at 17.
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Date: 2012-02-29 01:36 pm (UTC)Seasons 2 and 6 tie for second place as my favorites.
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Date: 2012-02-29 02:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-02-29 10:58 pm (UTC)LOL! In a couple of years, if I re-watch again, I may change my mind.
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Date: 2012-02-29 05:36 pm (UTC)Aside from Mark Watches, I've been listening to a podcast called PotentialCast. It also features three people who have never seen the series (and one who has). So far, those first-time watcher's reaction is very close to mine when I first watched the series. At the point of their season 3 wrap-up, no one is raving about the show yet - except the rewatcher who stated that S3 is her favorite season - , while they all admit that it's a very entertaining show. I'm curious to see how their opinion will change – for better or worse – in later seasons.
I mentioned about this podcast because it was a very refreshing change for me after having read Mark's reaction for three seasons - not to mention, there is a lot of “flailing” going on in the comment section. I just can't get emotionally connected with these early seasons. I don't know why ....
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Date: 2012-02-29 05:47 pm (UTC)I've noticed over time that the people who either like high school storylines or found that "high school as hell or the adolescent search for identity" resonating - loved the earlier seasons more than those who didn't.
The other possibility is that the early seasons are more standard tv formula. ie. You have several stand-a-alone monsters of the week,
clear-cut heroes and bad-guys, clear-cut mythology and rules. And you pretty much know who will and die at the end. Buffy is safe, Xander, Willow, Giles, and Cordy...more or less.
Whedon and his fellow writing team didn't begin to break all those rules and tropes until S4 onwards. Where they pretty much threw the rules out the window. I've noticed people who prefer a clear-cut, consistent, mythos and story tend to struggle more with the later seasons.
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Date: 2012-03-02 05:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-03-02 05:53 pm (UTC)Second seasons of tv shows are always like that.
Unfortunately for me, at least, my S2 DVD's are not the best...they aren't as clear and pristine as my S5's, but foggier resolution, darker, and harder to navigate. So that may be part of my problems with it.
But you are correct - S2 is a lot of fun.
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Date: 2012-03-02 11:00 pm (UTC)Season 5 is my favourite. Seeing Buffy as a big sister made me finally connect with her in a way I hadn't before as well as seeing her hang around with her mother more as an adult rather than child. Add to that a stunning depiction of grief and the beginning of her depression (plus some excellent Spike storyline) and I find season 5 incredible. Season 6 is a close second, I feel that season knows me more than any other but because of that it's also painful to watch sometimes.
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Date: 2012-03-02 11:46 pm (UTC)I can still admire them for their humour, storywriting quality etc. but emotional impact is what is most important to me and outside of a few episodes I just don't feel that in the first three seasons. I still watch them on re-watch but increasingly just to pick up on some (presumably unintentional) character arc foreshadowing that I find fascinating. Someone you love dying, having to work bad jobs, depression, abusive relationships, impossible crushes, sisterly rivalry, mother/daughter relationships... those are all things that I connect with deeply on the show and most of them are solely features of the later seasons.
This! Exactly This! Yes, you have articulated quite well in this paragraph my own feelings towards the series from start to finish and why the latter seasons are closer to my heart.
In addition...
Season 5 is my favourite. Seeing Buffy as a big sister made me finally connect with her in a way I hadn't before as well as seeing her hang around with her mother more as an adult rather than child. Add to that a stunning depiction of grief and the beginning of her depression (plus some excellent Spike storyline) and I find season 5 incredible.
Thank you. Me too. I felt exactly the same way and this is why Season 5 was my favorite. It was the first time I was able to connect with the characters in a real way. I have a younger brother. I understood the sibling fights. This season and it's arc worked for me in a way the earlier season's just didn't for precisely the reasons you state here.
Season 6 is a close second, I feel that season knows me more than any other but because of that it's also painful to watch sometimes.
Oh ghod, yes. Me too. This season spoke to the ragged bits of my soul.
And it is why I find it hard to re-watch. I call it six characters on the verge of a nervous breakdown. Never have I seen a writer throw all the characters off the cliff, then bring them all back again. Watching it was like watching a trapeze act without a net. It is close to my heart as well. I became a Buffy fan during S6, I wouldn't be on livejournal or have written any Buffy essays if it weren't for S6. Prior to S6...Buffy was just a fun tv show that I was addicted to.
In S6 - I joined the Buffy fandom, something I'd never done before and haven't done since.
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Date: 2012-04-05 04:06 am (UTC)The first episode of the series I ever saw was Tabula Rasa. My friend had been trying to getting me to watch the series for ages, but then I saw/heard the musical off to my side across the room and decided to give the series a try. So, I watched Tabula Rasa and became an instant Spuffy fan, of course. Then came Smashed, and I was so entirely glad my friend (older male who was like a big brother to me) was way across the basement (where the TV and VCR were) so he couldn't see my completely-taken-off-guard schwing reaction. And, once I'd seen those two episodes, I asked him if I could see the rest of S6 to help me get a better idea of what was going on. I really liked S6 because of all the conflicted emotions Spike and Buffy dealt with both internally and with each other.
With S7, though, I couldn't get over everything Spike went through, and how amazingly James played it. At the beginning, it was like Spike was a molecule in a pan of water on a stove: slowly starting to agitate until it's going back and forth in an unpredictable but constantly blocked frenzy. And then, to see Spike transform and still have people distrust him and abuse him because of it.... The battle between Spike and Robin was incredible. Robin's ordeal and emotional progression throughout the season were also amazing. The way The First made its presence known this time around was pretty creepy, too, which is always a good thing. Oh, and the business of the Angel & Spike "jealous vampire crap" in the last episodes? OMG, that was the best comic relief I saw in the entire series. LOL
So, anyway, I chose S6, but I'm actually torn between 6 & 7. The deciding factor was OMWF, of course!