Cultural dissonance...
Apr. 3rd, 2012 09:41 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkatRather good comment on why people don't like Angel: I can sort of see people not liking Angel, nor being that into the character of Angel. I might also get not liking “The Prodigal” either. I think that there are plenty of people who aren’t into dudes angst-ing their lives away about their daddy issues. - Mark Watches.
Angel is sort of...a specific trope, and centers on a type of character played by a specific type of actor that either works for you or really, really doesn't. My brother and sisinlaw loved Angel, my mother who adores noir, found the series derivative, dull, and did not like the actor. I fell somewhere in between. I liked it and I didn't. I liked the actor and I didn't. So I saw both sides. Why they loved it, why she didn't. And it's worth noting I own all the seasons but Season 3 on DVD and have rewatched the damn thing on cable about three times, and wrote various essays on it. Also as much as I state I dislike Cordy? That's not true - since I wrote not one but two character essays on her, which Cordy fans loved. Same with Angel - I clearly loved and hated the character, since I wrote a lot about him.
Just as I see both sides of the Bangle scenario. And I see both sides of the non-shipper vs. shipper wars. Because I'm both a shipper and not a shipper. Non-shippers, I've realized, generally speaking, really don't understand shippers (relationship shippers not character shippers - just so there's no confusion) and tend to ...well, how to put this diplomatically? Get really snitty about the wars. They sort of look at shippers the same way that some people I know look at daytime soap opera fans or romance fans with bewildered and frustrated disdain.
Example?
CW: I can't believe you watch daytime soaps. That's so pedestrian.
ME: Says the woman who faithfully watches Hercules: The Legendary Journeys and Seventh Heaven.
CW: That's different.
ME: Different versions of camp.
CW: You'd realize that Broadway musicals aren't watchable if you appreciated OPERA and saw one.
Me: Sorry, I forgot Carmen isn't an Opera, nor is Porgy and Bess, my mistake. And of course the Rock Operas like Who's Tommy and Les Mis and Jesus Christ Super Star just don't count. If it's not in Italian or German and doesn't have a lot of AAAHHHHHHHH... AHHHHAHHH..Ariaaa...haaaiaaa. It's just not worthy!
CW: You do realize that Buffy is marketed to teen girls.
Me: Have you ever seen Buffy?
CW: No. Isn't it like Charmed?
ME: Really not. (Sigh)
Kidbro: I'm surprised you don't like Angel better than Buffy.
Me: Why?
Kidbro: It's more adult, deeper, more layered, darker...I like Buffy fine, until she started sleeping with Spike. Don't know what she's doing with that.
ME: (worth noting that kidbro fell in love with and married his high-school sweet heart, granted didn't get married until 20 years after they met and she was 8 months pregnant, but let's not get into technicalities): Angel annoys me sometimes...he's sort of silly.
Sisinlaw: Really? I find him adorable. Don't like Spike though.
Me: Okay who'd you guys vote for in the last election.
Sisinlaw/Kidbro: we didn't vote, we hated everyone.
ME: Uh...so how's the business going?
Sigh. Sometimes...It's dangerous discussing cultural interests. People can be so ...snitty about it.
Angel is sort of...a specific trope, and centers on a type of character played by a specific type of actor that either works for you or really, really doesn't. My brother and sisinlaw loved Angel, my mother who adores noir, found the series derivative, dull, and did not like the actor. I fell somewhere in between. I liked it and I didn't. I liked the actor and I didn't. So I saw both sides. Why they loved it, why she didn't. And it's worth noting I own all the seasons but Season 3 on DVD and have rewatched the damn thing on cable about three times, and wrote various essays on it. Also as much as I state I dislike Cordy? That's not true - since I wrote not one but two character essays on her, which Cordy fans loved. Same with Angel - I clearly loved and hated the character, since I wrote a lot about him.
Just as I see both sides of the Bangle scenario. And I see both sides of the non-shipper vs. shipper wars. Because I'm both a shipper and not a shipper. Non-shippers, I've realized, generally speaking, really don't understand shippers (relationship shippers not character shippers - just so there's no confusion) and tend to ...well, how to put this diplomatically? Get really snitty about the wars. They sort of look at shippers the same way that some people I know look at daytime soap opera fans or romance fans with bewildered and frustrated disdain.
Example?
CW: I can't believe you watch daytime soaps. That's so pedestrian.
ME: Says the woman who faithfully watches Hercules: The Legendary Journeys and Seventh Heaven.
CW: That's different.
ME: Different versions of camp.
CW: You'd realize that Broadway musicals aren't watchable if you appreciated OPERA and saw one.
Me: Sorry, I forgot Carmen isn't an Opera, nor is Porgy and Bess, my mistake. And of course the Rock Operas like Who's Tommy and Les Mis and Jesus Christ Super Star just don't count. If it's not in Italian or German and doesn't have a lot of AAAHHHHHHHH... AHHHHAHHH..Ariaaa...haaaiaaa. It's just not worthy!
CW: You do realize that Buffy is marketed to teen girls.
Me: Have you ever seen Buffy?
CW: No. Isn't it like Charmed?
ME: Really not. (Sigh)
Kidbro: I'm surprised you don't like Angel better than Buffy.
Me: Why?
Kidbro: It's more adult, deeper, more layered, darker...I like Buffy fine, until she started sleeping with Spike. Don't know what she's doing with that.
ME: (worth noting that kidbro fell in love with and married his high-school sweet heart, granted didn't get married until 20 years after they met and she was 8 months pregnant, but let's not get into technicalities): Angel annoys me sometimes...he's sort of silly.
Sisinlaw: Really? I find him adorable. Don't like Spike though.
Me: Okay who'd you guys vote for in the last election.
Sisinlaw/Kidbro: we didn't vote, we hated everyone.
ME: Uh...so how's the business going?
Sigh. Sometimes...It's dangerous discussing cultural interests. People can be so ...snitty about it.
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Date: 2012-04-05 02:55 am (UTC)* I tried to read the first book of Twilight and it just did not work for me.
The writing was too close to how I wrote when I was 14. And the story was ...offensive to me. A wimpy girl whose life is defined by a guy. Ugh. But..
as was explained to me by an Aunt - it is a fantasy trope that appeals to many women...the idea of being protected, of swept off your feet by this dangerous but powerful man who will take care of you and treat you like a princess has a certain appeal. I get that. And judging people's fantasies...is a bit like judging their politics or religion...as long as they aren't hurting you or themselves? Who cares. Let them have their fun. It's like Shades of Grey - the woman who wrote it has a happy marriage, a loving hubby and two boys, so she makes her life a bit fuller by indulging in a little fantasy...don't we all?
*I'm careful who I'm open about my Buffy love to. I don't tell most people.
Really don't share my cultural interests with most people. Like you, been kicked one too many times for it. I tend to like off-kilter things. (such as soap operas, comic books, sci-fantasy shows, young adult fantasy/sci-fi, romance novels, erotica, pulp noir mystery novels, etc. I also like "critically" acclaimed stuff. I'm eclectic or diverse in my taste. It bewilders people who try to pigeon hole me.)
*And I really dislike the anti-shipping stuff you see around, particularly as a lot of it seems to have an undercurrent of sexism in it.
True. Except...I was talking more about..snitty comments on it. People who are women or clearly feminist who just don't get shipping a relationship. OR the "wars". They don't understand why Spuffy fans resent Bangle fans and vice versa. They just don't get it. And they don't get the issues. (I do.
Been a fan of soap operas and comic books since forever and no one does shipping wars like soap operas and marvel comic books. I've seen it in everything. And it's always tragically hopeless because as everyone who has ever watched a long-running serial knows...the writer never allows the hero to find true love. It's always unresolved. Shippers are pretty much masochists at heart, which is what the people who don't get it understand. The masochistic hope for something that won't happen. It's so...adorably human, hope. Hope that we will be the on who will the lottery. That our underdog sports team will win against all odds (yes, I'm a NY Mets fan, sad but true), and the hope that our ship, no matter the odds, will sail.)
* Similar on ATS, I just preferred the humor and characters and storyline better on Buffy, I'm not quite sure why. There's numerous reasons, but it all just comes down to..taste. I just happen to prefer grapefruit to orange juice for some reason.