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shadowkat1. Well, I've figured out what distinguishes Fifty Shades of Grey from 90% of the erotica fiction out there, specifically BDSM and Boddice Ripper fiction:
a) no rape - it's all consensual (you would not believe the amount of rape or rape disguised as seduction that falls within this genre.)
b) in-depth discussion of the two roles (submissive/dominant) and the discomfort with them, and why. I'll share the dialogue later, because I haven't seen anyone write this before. Except possibly fanfic writers. I don't know what it is about professional genre writers in the mystery and romance fields - but they do like to follow boilerplate or formula - personally, I blame the publishing industry. And these stupid writer associations.
c) the characters talk about their feelings and the protagonist/narrator confronts her lover on things that don't work, and he listens to her. They actually have banter and discussions. I know? Shocking! Two characters in an erotic novel having sex - talking to each other. And discussing the sex and their relationship. Normally in these books the conflict is all "miscommunication" or "misunderstandings" or so and so didn't tell so and so this or that. (That was the conflict in Buffy too mainly.) But in this book - the conflict is more direct - it's who Grey, the romantic love interest, is, it's his baggage, and the fact that he is an insane control freak and unable to be touched (well outside of two key pieces of anatomy, face, lips, and dick). Okay, they don't discuss everything - like how she's struggling with his baggage, and the fact that he is a bit of a nutjob.
But most of it. It's realistic. The writer is a realist, not a complete romantic and has clearly read as much of this crap as I have. She's reacting to it and writing how she'd want it to go.
d) The writer isn't pretentious or self-important. She's down to earth. She's one of us.
And that is oddly very appealing. Unlike Stephanie Meyer - who pissed me off. This gal doesn't have a big head. "I'm just writing my sexual fantasies, this was a story I had to get out and published, I did not expect it take off and am somewhat bewildered to be honest about the popularity. It's no different than everything else." (actually, oddly enough? It is. This, folks, is what surprised me. Because I thought it was like everything else, until I began to read it myself. The only thing I can think of that is comparable is Nautibitz's Crave, except this is actually less dark than Nauti's story and less controversial in some places. And more realistic.)
The writer clearly has an analytical mind and is well-read. There's not as much sex as I thought there'd be. I'm 50% of the way through, and there's actually more dialogue and email chats. Very funny email chats. Laugh out loud funny email chats. The writer of this book has a dry sense of humor. It's not literary nor academic writing. But it's no worse or better than Stephen King or maybe it's the other way around? See...I think pulp and pablum is in the eye of the beholder. In the 1970s, Jacqueline Suzanne's Valley of the Dolls was the rage - it was considered controversial and risque for its time. OR was that the 50s? I can't remember. I may not have been alive at the time. I remember when Harold Robbins books were and Erica John, and oh...there was Jackie Collins. This book is actually a lot more fun than Jackie Collins in my opinion, but then I found Jackie unreadable. I need to do another book meme...this time books that I read as a teen and can still remember.
Okay, maybe a sample from Fifty Shades...would work better. Although admittedly it may remind you of Bridget Jones Diary, it reminds me of Bridget Jones Diary. Except with better sex.
Christian has spent the night, after giving Ana a sample of BDSM sex. Basically he spanked her naked butt 18 times then she was aroused, and begged him to fuck her. He left. She got upset. He came back. Spent the night, which he never does. And asked her to write her issues in an email - because if she's not honest with him and can't get upset in front of him, how can he trust what she says? For this to work, they have to trust each other. BDSM doesn't work without trust and respect. (True, from everyone I've spoken with and read, this is absolutely true, regardless of the insanely wrong erotica out there. BDSM is not the same as boddice ripper). He asks her to explain what upset her - do it in an email.
So they have this intriguing email chat.
From: Anastasia Steele
Subject: Assault and Battery: The After-Effects
Date: May 27, 2011 08:05
To: Christian Grey
Dear Mr. Grey,
You wanted to know why I felt confused after you - which euphemism should we apply - spanked, punished, beat, assaulted me. Well, during the whole alarming process, I felt demeaned, debased, and abused. And much to my mortification, you're right, I was aroused, and that was unexpected. As you are well aware, all things sexual are new to me - I only wish I was more prepared. I was shocked to feel aroused.
What really worried me was how I felt afterward. And that's more difficult to articulate. I was happy that you were happy. I felt releived that it wasn't as painful as I thought it would be. And when I was lying in your arms, I felt...sated. But I feel very uncomfortable, guilty even, feeling that way. It doesn't sit well with me, and I'm confused as a result. Does that answer your question?
I hope the world of Mergers and Acquistions is as stimulating as ever...and that you weren't too late.
Thank you for staying with me.
Ana
From: Christian Grey
Subject: Free Your Mind
Date: May 27,2011 08:24
To: Anastasia Steel
Interesting...if slightly overstated title heading, Miss Steele.
To answer your points:
* I 'll go with spanking - as that's what it was.
* So you felt demeaned, debased, abused and assaulted - how very Tess Durbeyfield of you. I believe it was you who decided on the debasement, if I remember correctly. Do you really feel like this or do you think you ought to feel like this? Two very different things. If that is how you feel, do you think you could just try to embrace these feelings, deal with them, for me? That's what a submissive would do.
* I am grateful for your inexperience. I value it, and I'm only beginning to understand what it means that you are mine in every way.
* Yes, you were aroused, which in turn was very arousing, there's nothing wrong with that.
* Happy does not even begin to cover how I felt. Ecstatic joy comes close.
* Punishment spanking hurts far more than sensual spanking - so that's about as hard as it gets, unless of course, you commit some major transgression, in which case I'll use some implement to punish you with. My hand was very sore. But I like that.
* I felt sated, too - more so than you could ever know.
* Don't waste your energy on guilt, feelings of wrongdoing, etc. We are consenting adults and what we do behind closed doors is between ourselves. You need to free your mind and listen to your body.
* The world of M&A is not nearly as stimulating as you are, Miss Steele.
Christian Grey
CEO, Grey Enterprises Holdings, Inc.
Holy crap...mine in every way. My breath hitches.
From: Anastasia Steele
Subject: Consenting Adults!
[There's the date and to Christian bit...I going to stop doing the whole thing]
Aren't you in a meeting?
I'm very glad your hand was sore.
And if I listened to my body, I'd be in Alaska by now.
Ana
PS: I will think about embracing those feelings.
Grey's response.
Subject: You Didn't Call the Cops
Miss Steele, I am in a meeting discussing the futures market, if you're really interested.
For the record, you stood beside me knowing what I was going to do. You didn't at any time ask me to stop - you didn't use either safeword.
You are an adult - you have choices.
Quite frankly, I'm looking forward to the next time my palm is ringing with pain.
You're obviously not listening to the right part of your body.
Alaska is very cold and no place to run. I would find you.
I can track your cell phone - remember?
Go to work.
Christian...
I scowl at the screen. He's right, of course. It's my choice. Hmmm. Is he serious about coming to find me? Should I decide to escape for a while? My mind flits briefly to my mother's offer. I hit 'reply'.
[Ana's Response, Subject line - Stalker]
Have you sought therapy for your stalker tendencies?
Ana
[Christian's response, Subject line - Stalker? Me?]
I pay the eminent Dr. Flynn a small fortune with regard to my stalker and other tendencies.
Go to work.
Christian....
[Ana's response. Subject line - Expensive Charlatans]
May I humbly suggest you seek a second opinion? I am not sure that Dr. Flynn is very effective.
Miss Steel.
[I've suddenly realized...the name Steele comes from the British series the Avengers and Remington Steele.]
[Grey's response, subject line - Second opinions.]
Not that it's any of your business, humble or otherwise, but Dr. Flynn is the second opinion.
You will have to speed, in your new car, putting yourself at unnecessary risk - I think that's against the rules.
GO TO WORK.
Christian.
[Ana's Response - Subject Line: SHOUTY CAPITALS. (hmmm can some hit Mark Watches over the head for doing this? Assuming anyone who reads Mark Watches is reading this, if not, never mind.)]
As the object of your stalker tendencies, I think it is my business, actually.
I haven't signed yet. So rules, schmules. And I don't start until 9:30.
Miss Steele.
[Christian's response - Descriptive Linguistics. By this point I'm giggling.]
Schmules? Not sure where that appears in Webster's Dictionary.
Christian
[Only someone who has fought with a pedant on line would know that joke.]
[Ana's response - Descriptive Linguistics]
It's between control freak and stalker. And descriptive linguistics is a hard limit for me.
Will you stop bothering me now? I'd like to go to work in my new car.
Ana
[Christian's response. Subject Line: Challenging but Amusing Young Women.]
My palm is twitching. Drive safely, Miss Steele.
The names Grey and Steele are well chosen actually. He's ambiguous and not black or white, she's steel - bendable not breakable. But strong and tough. Christian - cross-bearer, lots of baggage. Anastasia - I've no idea.
At any rate I'm impressed. That's new. Unlike The Story of O, Claiming of Sleeping Beauty, Initiation series and many of these books...this is a love story. It reminds me a little of Beauty and the Beast...and a bit of Much Ado About Nothing's Beatrice and Benedict, also Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth Bennet, Mr. Rochester and Jane Eyre..yet not. And I have no idea where the writer is going...which is a plus. Usually you know. How far will she go?
And will the two people end up together? Usually that's a given, but here, hard to determine. According to the write-up...the sensual affair changes them both.
It's not for everyone. But nothing is.
2. They are advertising the bejeesus out of the Avengers. General Hospital did a product placement for it - first time I've seen GH do a product placement for anything. And
it's on the cover of EW with a four page interview with everyone in the cast. If it doesn't pull in the big bucks, someone will be upset. The movie cost over 200 Million. To put this in perspective? Hunger Games cost about a third of that to make and reaped over 300 million in 6 weeks. Cabin in the Woods which cost even less...reaped 17 million. If Avengers doesn't make at least 100 million it's opening weekend? It may end up being a bomb. Expensive movies are nightmares. That's why they are going nuts on the marketing.
Sigh. If only they'd done this 4-5 years ago. Even three years ago. I might have been excited. Now? I couldn't care less. (sorry, couldn't think of a better phrase, wait, I know I'm paralyzed with not caring very much.) What can I say? Sometime between now and 2010 I got burned out on the whole superhero genre, comic books, violent stories with lots of explosions, and Joss Whedon. I'm no longer fannish about any of the above, I honestly don't know why.
I think that I have finally figured out what it is about Whedon's writing that is not working for me? (As you know, I keep changing my mind about this...which I know is irritating to some people, but I change my mind about pop culture stuff all the time. It's a given.) He's too focused on plot-twists, and action, not enough on small character moments, and relationship discussion (which appeared sporadically in his series but not enough to satisfy me - hence the fascination with fanfic, particularly in the later seasons). I'd say it was a gender thing - but Kevin Williamson does it as does Matt Weiner (Mad Men), George RR Martin and the tv writers of Game of Thrones, and Aaron Sorkin along with a lot of the male soap opera writers. Granted not everyone needs these sorts of discussions - I do. It's a subjective thing. I get that.
a) no rape - it's all consensual (you would not believe the amount of rape or rape disguised as seduction that falls within this genre.)
b) in-depth discussion of the two roles (submissive/dominant) and the discomfort with them, and why. I'll share the dialogue later, because I haven't seen anyone write this before. Except possibly fanfic writers. I don't know what it is about professional genre writers in the mystery and romance fields - but they do like to follow boilerplate or formula - personally, I blame the publishing industry. And these stupid writer associations.
c) the characters talk about their feelings and the protagonist/narrator confronts her lover on things that don't work, and he listens to her. They actually have banter and discussions. I know? Shocking! Two characters in an erotic novel having sex - talking to each other. And discussing the sex and their relationship. Normally in these books the conflict is all "miscommunication" or "misunderstandings" or so and so didn't tell so and so this or that. (That was the conflict in Buffy too mainly.) But in this book - the conflict is more direct - it's who Grey, the romantic love interest, is, it's his baggage, and the fact that he is an insane control freak and unable to be touched (well outside of two key pieces of anatomy, face, lips, and dick). Okay, they don't discuss everything - like how she's struggling with his baggage, and the fact that he is a bit of a nutjob.
But most of it. It's realistic. The writer is a realist, not a complete romantic and has clearly read as much of this crap as I have. She's reacting to it and writing how she'd want it to go.
d) The writer isn't pretentious or self-important. She's down to earth. She's one of us.
And that is oddly very appealing. Unlike Stephanie Meyer - who pissed me off. This gal doesn't have a big head. "I'm just writing my sexual fantasies, this was a story I had to get out and published, I did not expect it take off and am somewhat bewildered to be honest about the popularity. It's no different than everything else." (actually, oddly enough? It is. This, folks, is what surprised me. Because I thought it was like everything else, until I began to read it myself. The only thing I can think of that is comparable is Nautibitz's Crave, except this is actually less dark than Nauti's story and less controversial in some places. And more realistic.)
The writer clearly has an analytical mind and is well-read. There's not as much sex as I thought there'd be. I'm 50% of the way through, and there's actually more dialogue and email chats. Very funny email chats. Laugh out loud funny email chats. The writer of this book has a dry sense of humor. It's not literary nor academic writing. But it's no worse or better than Stephen King or maybe it's the other way around? See...I think pulp and pablum is in the eye of the beholder. In the 1970s, Jacqueline Suzanne's Valley of the Dolls was the rage - it was considered controversial and risque for its time. OR was that the 50s? I can't remember. I may not have been alive at the time. I remember when Harold Robbins books were and Erica John, and oh...there was Jackie Collins. This book is actually a lot more fun than Jackie Collins in my opinion, but then I found Jackie unreadable. I need to do another book meme...this time books that I read as a teen and can still remember.
Okay, maybe a sample from Fifty Shades...would work better. Although admittedly it may remind you of Bridget Jones Diary, it reminds me of Bridget Jones Diary. Except with better sex.
Christian has spent the night, after giving Ana a sample of BDSM sex. Basically he spanked her naked butt 18 times then she was aroused, and begged him to fuck her. He left. She got upset. He came back. Spent the night, which he never does. And asked her to write her issues in an email - because if she's not honest with him and can't get upset in front of him, how can he trust what she says? For this to work, they have to trust each other. BDSM doesn't work without trust and respect. (True, from everyone I've spoken with and read, this is absolutely true, regardless of the insanely wrong erotica out there. BDSM is not the same as boddice ripper). He asks her to explain what upset her - do it in an email.
So they have this intriguing email chat.
From: Anastasia Steele
Subject: Assault and Battery: The After-Effects
Date: May 27, 2011 08:05
To: Christian Grey
Dear Mr. Grey,
You wanted to know why I felt confused after you - which euphemism should we apply - spanked, punished, beat, assaulted me. Well, during the whole alarming process, I felt demeaned, debased, and abused. And much to my mortification, you're right, I was aroused, and that was unexpected. As you are well aware, all things sexual are new to me - I only wish I was more prepared. I was shocked to feel aroused.
What really worried me was how I felt afterward. And that's more difficult to articulate. I was happy that you were happy. I felt releived that it wasn't as painful as I thought it would be. And when I was lying in your arms, I felt...sated. But I feel very uncomfortable, guilty even, feeling that way. It doesn't sit well with me, and I'm confused as a result. Does that answer your question?
I hope the world of Mergers and Acquistions is as stimulating as ever...and that you weren't too late.
Thank you for staying with me.
Ana
From: Christian Grey
Subject: Free Your Mind
Date: May 27,2011 08:24
To: Anastasia Steel
Interesting...if slightly overstated title heading, Miss Steele.
To answer your points:
* I 'll go with spanking - as that's what it was.
* So you felt demeaned, debased, abused and assaulted - how very Tess Durbeyfield of you. I believe it was you who decided on the debasement, if I remember correctly. Do you really feel like this or do you think you ought to feel like this? Two very different things. If that is how you feel, do you think you could just try to embrace these feelings, deal with them, for me? That's what a submissive would do.
* I am grateful for your inexperience. I value it, and I'm only beginning to understand what it means that you are mine in every way.
* Yes, you were aroused, which in turn was very arousing, there's nothing wrong with that.
* Happy does not even begin to cover how I felt. Ecstatic joy comes close.
* Punishment spanking hurts far more than sensual spanking - so that's about as hard as it gets, unless of course, you commit some major transgression, in which case I'll use some implement to punish you with. My hand was very sore. But I like that.
* I felt sated, too - more so than you could ever know.
* Don't waste your energy on guilt, feelings of wrongdoing, etc. We are consenting adults and what we do behind closed doors is between ourselves. You need to free your mind and listen to your body.
* The world of M&A is not nearly as stimulating as you are, Miss Steele.
Christian Grey
CEO, Grey Enterprises Holdings, Inc.
Holy crap...mine in every way. My breath hitches.
From: Anastasia Steele
Subject: Consenting Adults!
[There's the date and to Christian bit...I going to stop doing the whole thing]
Aren't you in a meeting?
I'm very glad your hand was sore.
And if I listened to my body, I'd be in Alaska by now.
Ana
PS: I will think about embracing those feelings.
Grey's response.
Subject: You Didn't Call the Cops
Miss Steele, I am in a meeting discussing the futures market, if you're really interested.
For the record, you stood beside me knowing what I was going to do. You didn't at any time ask me to stop - you didn't use either safeword.
You are an adult - you have choices.
Quite frankly, I'm looking forward to the next time my palm is ringing with pain.
You're obviously not listening to the right part of your body.
Alaska is very cold and no place to run. I would find you.
I can track your cell phone - remember?
Go to work.
Christian...
I scowl at the screen. He's right, of course. It's my choice. Hmmm. Is he serious about coming to find me? Should I decide to escape for a while? My mind flits briefly to my mother's offer. I hit 'reply'.
[Ana's Response, Subject line - Stalker]
Have you sought therapy for your stalker tendencies?
Ana
[Christian's response, Subject line - Stalker? Me?]
I pay the eminent Dr. Flynn a small fortune with regard to my stalker and other tendencies.
Go to work.
Christian....
[Ana's response. Subject line - Expensive Charlatans]
May I humbly suggest you seek a second opinion? I am not sure that Dr. Flynn is very effective.
Miss Steel.
[I've suddenly realized...the name Steele comes from the British series the Avengers and Remington Steele.]
[Grey's response, subject line - Second opinions.]
Not that it's any of your business, humble or otherwise, but Dr. Flynn is the second opinion.
You will have to speed, in your new car, putting yourself at unnecessary risk - I think that's against the rules.
GO TO WORK.
Christian.
[Ana's Response - Subject Line: SHOUTY CAPITALS. (hmmm can some hit Mark Watches over the head for doing this? Assuming anyone who reads Mark Watches is reading this, if not, never mind.)]
As the object of your stalker tendencies, I think it is my business, actually.
I haven't signed yet. So rules, schmules. And I don't start until 9:30.
Miss Steele.
[Christian's response - Descriptive Linguistics. By this point I'm giggling.]
Schmules? Not sure where that appears in Webster's Dictionary.
Christian
[Only someone who has fought with a pedant on line would know that joke.]
[Ana's response - Descriptive Linguistics]
It's between control freak and stalker. And descriptive linguistics is a hard limit for me.
Will you stop bothering me now? I'd like to go to work in my new car.
Ana
[Christian's response. Subject Line: Challenging but Amusing Young Women.]
My palm is twitching. Drive safely, Miss Steele.
The names Grey and Steele are well chosen actually. He's ambiguous and not black or white, she's steel - bendable not breakable. But strong and tough. Christian - cross-bearer, lots of baggage. Anastasia - I've no idea.
At any rate I'm impressed. That's new. Unlike The Story of O, Claiming of Sleeping Beauty, Initiation series and many of these books...this is a love story. It reminds me a little of Beauty and the Beast...and a bit of Much Ado About Nothing's Beatrice and Benedict, also Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth Bennet, Mr. Rochester and Jane Eyre..yet not. And I have no idea where the writer is going...which is a plus. Usually you know. How far will she go?
And will the two people end up together? Usually that's a given, but here, hard to determine. According to the write-up...the sensual affair changes them both.
It's not for everyone. But nothing is.
2. They are advertising the bejeesus out of the Avengers. General Hospital did a product placement for it - first time I've seen GH do a product placement for anything. And
it's on the cover of EW with a four page interview with everyone in the cast. If it doesn't pull in the big bucks, someone will be upset. The movie cost over 200 Million. To put this in perspective? Hunger Games cost about a third of that to make and reaped over 300 million in 6 weeks. Cabin in the Woods which cost even less...reaped 17 million. If Avengers doesn't make at least 100 million it's opening weekend? It may end up being a bomb. Expensive movies are nightmares. That's why they are going nuts on the marketing.
Sigh. If only they'd done this 4-5 years ago. Even three years ago. I might have been excited. Now? I couldn't care less. (sorry, couldn't think of a better phrase, wait, I know I'm paralyzed with not caring very much.) What can I say? Sometime between now and 2010 I got burned out on the whole superhero genre, comic books, violent stories with lots of explosions, and Joss Whedon. I'm no longer fannish about any of the above, I honestly don't know why.
I think that I have finally figured out what it is about Whedon's writing that is not working for me? (As you know, I keep changing my mind about this...which I know is irritating to some people, but I change my mind about pop culture stuff all the time. It's a given.) He's too focused on plot-twists, and action, not enough on small character moments, and relationship discussion (which appeared sporadically in his series but not enough to satisfy me - hence the fascination with fanfic, particularly in the later seasons). I'd say it was a gender thing - but Kevin Williamson does it as does Matt Weiner (Mad Men), George RR Martin and the tv writers of Game of Thrones, and Aaron Sorkin along with a lot of the male soap opera writers. Granted not everyone needs these sorts of discussions - I do. It's a subjective thing. I get that.
no subject
Date: 2012-04-28 03:43 am (UTC)I have to say, I think you would really really enjoy Grimm.
I know, the premise might seem like it's been done before, but the characters and their interaction, not to mention their treatment of the non-regular human characters is everything that Whedon's stuff wasn't.
no subject
Date: 2012-04-28 02:09 pm (UTC)Also Grimm got a bit on the gory/scarey side.
But I've heard it's gotten better as it goes along.
no subject
Date: 2012-04-28 09:18 am (UTC)Secret Russian princess?
Anyway, thanks for the post. It's interesting. And I can see the fic-y-ness of the book, if that makes sense.
no subject
Date: 2012-04-28 02:06 pm (UTC)And I can see the fic-y-ness of the book, if that makes sense.
Oh, definitely. I'm beginning to see it too - which is actually what makes it different. Weirdly fanfic writers develop their characters more and rely less on "physical" description. They are more interested in emotional interaction, psychology, and who these people are. They fill in the gaps that most romance and genre novelists will leave out.
Many genre writers (not all) write sparsely. Focused more on the action scenes - almost as if they are thinking, okay, this is filler until I can get to the fight scene. OR the sex scene. While the better fanfic writers are thinking - why are the characters doing these things?
Plus fanfic writers get interaction - so you have your readers directly asking questions as you are writing.
It explains, I think, why I prefer romantic fanfiction and erotic fanfiction to published romances/erotica. And why I think the fanfic writers are better. The insane popularity of Fifty Shades in the media ironically validates my long held view that the fanfic erotica/romances are better and people should publish this stuff.
Nautibitz's Crave is amongst the best pieces of erotica fiction/romance that I've read, because unlike Anne Rice or the writer of Story of O, or all the others - she's interested in "why" the characters are doing these things. She's interested in the characters themselves. Sex scenes in of themselves are sort of boring. Just like action scenes are.
This book is making me oddly curious about Twilight. I'll state that much. But mainly? I am resisting the urge to buy and read Tess of the D'Urbvilles and Far From the Madding Crowd - along with renting the films. I am really curious about Tess all of a sudden.
The writer is well-read. There's a sort of Much Ado About Nothing meets
Beauty and the Beast by way of Thomas Hardy, with a touch of Pretty Woman/Sleeping with the Enemy. Very weird book.
I give the writer a lot of credit though. Takes guts to do what she did. It's one thing to publish your sexual fantasies under a pseudo online. Quite another to publish it commercially, then appear on the Today Show to talk about it. Not sure I can do that - even if it meant a million bucks.
Re Anastasia...
It could be the Princess connotation. Ana is not wealthy. She's worked her way through school. Probably was on scholarship. Has a high GPA.
And was driving a beat-up car that her step-father bought for her used from a male buddy of hers. Her Mom's on her fourth marriage. If I remember Anastasia's tale...she's a disenfranchised princess, the last of a family that was killed. This character appear to be that exactly.
[Having not read the Twilight books - outside of a quick scan in a bookstore several years ago, and various postings online making fun of the books - I've no idea how close it is to them.]