The Climb...Game of Thrones Episode 5, S3

[shadowkat]

Or it might be six. I am not good at counting things. You should see me at physical therapy. Do thirty of these, hold for twenty seconds each. Both sides. I'm using my fingers...and I'm still not sure I got the count right.

As an aside I'm glad I have a few people on my flist who are completely clueless about the books, but I need to find a whole group.



* I don't remember the Melisandra and Thoros conversation in the book. But rather loved it here and so that's what happened to Gendry? I thought he just stayed with the Brotherhood?
I also don't remember Melisandra and Ayra talking in the books. If it's a change - it's a good change. But oh dear, poor Gendry.

R'Hollar...I agree with Bendric, Rholla is not a good god. Feels like the God of War or Mars.
The other side he tells Melisandra is dark not light and this God is not light, but a dark god.

* The scenes with the Lannisters still rock. Adored the conversation with Cersei and Tyrion who commiserating over their father's annoying marital plans, and Tywin and Queen of Thorns.
The Queen tries to twart Tywin, but gives up for now. Tyrion has aptly decided that Sansa got the worst of the bargain. Cersei doesn't disagree. But naively thinks Jamie would and could save her. Tyrion also finds out from Cersei, as do we, that it was Joffrey who ordered the hit on him not her. (She'd have been brighter about it and poisoned him.) I think Cersei's arc works better here...than it did in the books. It's clearer and it also parallels Catelynn's arc quite well, not to mention ironically.

* Little Finger is even worse here than he was in the books. I don't remember that bit with Joffrey and the whores at all. Although it does a great job of showing the audience what a mad sadist Joffrey is. Joffrey and the guy torturing Theon have a lot in common. And RIP dear Roz. You were better off with Tyrion than Little Finger.

Little Finger pretty much admits here what I'd managed to figure out from the last episode - that he manipulated the whole thing to thwart Varys plan to marry Sansa off to Highgarden.
Actually what happens is a result of Varys and Littlefingers chess match with each other.
Little Finger's snitch is more adept than Varys...who managed to get caught. Poor Roz - she did not deserve that.

* Oh dear...Rob Stark bargains with the Freys...and agrees to marry Edmure off to one of Frey's daughters in exchange for an alliance. For the good of the kingdom, he tells Edmure, for the good of the family, for the win. It's a rather dark scene, filled with foreboding.

* The guy torturing Theon...and seriously, why do we have to have this too in S3? I guess it's better to do it now than in flashback. But in the books it was actually less grueling, they referred to it, we didn't actually have to live through it. And the guy torturing Theon is a true sadist. Although I think Joffrey could give him a run for his money. Shame they can't meet - they'd be buddies.

I do however like his line to Theo...which hangs over the entire episode : "I'm sorry, did you think this was going to have a happy ending for you? Eh no."

There are no happy endings in Wars. Very anti-war.

* Ygritt and Jon Snow...climb to the top, amongst much difficulty and celebrate with a kiss - that's a lovely bit, but paralleled with Gilly and Sam who sing stories to a little baby in the dark of wood, along with Bran who watches Jojen have nasty visions regarding Jon Snow.
While Brienne and Jamie attempt with mixed success to save one another's dignity and lives. They are an interesting pair. She does it with physical strength, Jamie with his wits and tongue. The Jamie/Brienne bit is following the books almost to the letter - thank god.

* Finally the last line that hangs over the episode...from Little Finger, filled with venom.

Varys: Don't you understand, what you are doing will lead to chaos..that is a pit.
Little Finger: No, Chaos is a ladder...for those who have the strength and will to climb up it.

He is a piece of work. The Iago of the novel. In some respects the most frightening and creepy of the villains.



Overall great episode, even if I could have done without the Theon bits. I think they like to torture us with Theon. Oh well, the casting is good - he's no more appealing than he was in the books.

Comments

[sophist.livejournal.com]

"I don't remember the Melisandra and Thoros conversation in the book. But rather loved it here and so that's what happened to Gendry? I thought he just stayed with the Brotherhood?
I also don't remember Melisandra and Ayra talking in the books. If it's a change - it's a good change. But oh dear, poor Gendry."

Your memory is fine. None of this happened in the books.

"Rholla is not a good god. Feels like the God of War or Mars."

I suspect (no spoilers) that you have good instincts.

"I don't remember that bit with Joffrey and the whores at all."

Again, it didn't happen in the books.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Thanks, good to know.

Are you watching the series live this round?

[sophist.livejournal.com]

No, I don't get HBO. I thought about it, but I wasn't all that impressed with S2, so I decided not to get it just for GoT. I depend on you and a few other sites for updates.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Ah makes sense. There are several recaps out there. I know reginaspina, who has read the books mulitple times, does one.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

I should read hers. It's probably better than others I get (yours excepted, of course!).

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

LOL! Thank you, but I've admittedly been rather lame in my reviews and recaps. No time and no energy. Also I've been applying my trademark dry wit - which sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.

There's several recaps out there. I know that. I've seen at least four on my flist. Two by people who haven't read the books, and two by people who have.

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

I'm sure I've said it before: I love the way the HBO version is different from the books while actually making the books easier to follow (explaining what the books mean even while altering exactly what was said and done).

It makes it fulling to read and watch.

I agree about the Theon bits, I hope they aren't just going to torture him for the next two seasons.... It is awfully gruesome.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I'm actually more worried about what they plan to do with Theon this season, apparently it's getting worse. Seriously...it's not like this season isn't going to be gruesome enough on it's own. It's also quite jam-packed. I'm amazed they have room for it.

[flameraven.livejournal.com]

The bit with Gendry did not happen in the books. Instead, Melisandre was preparing to use the 'king's blood' of Edric Storm, one of Robert's bastards who lives at Dragonstone with Stannis. Since they never introduced Edric, though, Gendry is the only Baratheon bastard the show has available.

It seems the bit with Joffrey killing a whore didn't happen in the books, but it's definitely in-character for him and part of his pattern of cruelty. He did have several whores beaten or beat each other for his pleasure in Clash of Kings. They want you to REALLY hate Joffrey before they kill him off, I guess. As if we needed any more reason to hate him.

I had forgotten that the Theon torturing bit was happening off-screen in Storm of Swords until I reread parts of it the other day. In the books Ramsey Snow sends the skin of Theon's little finger to his father at Harrenhal, who gives it to Catelyn. It's easy to skip over, though, and we don't otherwise hear from Theon until book 5, so I guess they thought it would be easier for the audience to keep track of if they showed the torture happening.

It is a bit odd that they're totally ignoring the other Iron Isles characters, though. In the book, Melisandre works a spell against three usurper kings (Balon Greyjoy, Robb Stark, Joffrey) and then surprise surprise, all three are dead by the end of the book. I'm guessing maybe that will be worked in more to Season 4?

I'm not sure how they're going to pace the rest of this season, with four episodes left. Episode 9 is titled 'the Rains of Castemere' according to Wikipedia, and I assume that is when the Red Wedding will happen. (I reread that chapter recently and that song is playing throughout the crucial scene.) Not sure what they'll do for the ending episode, though.

I'm really enjoying this season, even though it's painful to watch because it's a downward spiral for most of the characters.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

In the book, Melisandre works a spell against three usurper kings (Balon Greyjoy, Robb Stark, Joffrey) and then surprise surprise, all three are dead by the end of the book. I'm guessing maybe that will be worked in more to Season 4?

I'd forgotten about the spell. She'll probably do it next episode.
The Greyjoy's really aren't in much of Book 3 anyhow...or I don't remember them being in Book 3. Because when they popped up in Book 4, I was a bit lost and had to figure out who they were.

Wish they could show us less of Theon. Apparently I was right - the writers do feel the need to show us Ramsay Snow's torture of Theon in graphic detail. I honestly don't need to see it. Less is more in this regard. If we don't see Theon the rest of this season, I'll be more than happy. Would rather see the other Greyjoy's. Can't remember what happened to Balon - of course after Joff and Rob, it was probably fairly anti-climatic.

Rather interesting - in the books, the mystery is how Theon became Reek and if Reek is Theon (although it is pretty clear unless you skim),
while in the tv series it appears to be who is torturing Theon (again rather clear...and I'm not sure it's really a spoiler, because it is hard to keep people straight.)

I'm not sure how they're going to pace the rest of this season, with four episodes left. Episode 9 is titled 'the Rains of Castemere' according to Wikipedia, and I assume that is when the Red Wedding will happen. (I reread that chapter recently and that song is playing throughout the crucial scene.) Not sure what they'll do for the ending episode, though.

Well if memory serves there's eight-ten crucial bits that happen in Book 3. Character arcs that completely change.
And you sort of have to build up to each of them.

This season is going to end with the weddings and ahem the betrayals. We have three - I think, or maybe two. I can't remember if Joffrey married Margarey or not, I think he did... I could be wrong about this - but I think the season is going to end with Dany finding out about Jorah, and Joffrey's wedding to Margarey or the wedding feast and well what happens at it...

Next season will be...the aftermath.

But I agree - they seem to be wedging a lot into the season. And honestly, why they felt the need to add Theon too, I don't know. Apparently they thought there isn't enough torture and mayhem?

[flameraven.livejournal.com]

I don't think they'll end with Joffrey's wedding, actually, I suspect that will be early in S4. Though they could surprise me.

In the books Joffrey gets through the wedding to Margaery, but doesn't get to the bedding part. Which is why in the later books they talk about her as being twice-wedded but still a maid.

I suspect we'll see less of Theon in S4 and the rest of this season. I think it is important for the audience to know what's happening to him-- he kind of disappears after book 2 otherwise with only a few brief mentions. If they went with the book events, Theon wouldn't be on screen until several years down the road, and there's no guarantee at this point that the actor would be free to return then. If they check back in on him every few episodes, though, they can keep the actor on contract and not have to worry about that.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I've read on flist that we're supposed to see more of Theon in the next episode and it is worse than last week's. I'm hoping they are wrong.

I think you are most likely right --- they may start S4 with the Joffrey wedding and end it with what happens to Tywin.

[flameraven.livejournal.com]

Ick. Yeah, I kinda hope so too. That's one area where some gossip by other characters would be more palatable, which I think they did in the books. A few people gossiping about how Ramsey Snow tortures people until they eat their own fingers, that's more than creepy enough. I don't think we need to see it. >:

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Agreed. It's not like the writers of the tv series don't have enough gruesome things to depict this season. Do they really need to show us this too?

For most tv shows - the Red Wedding by itself would be enough.

[mamculuna.livejournal.com]

I thought Gendry stayed with the Brotherhood, too. Since Gendry is Robert Baratheon's true son (unlike Joffrey), I am hoping we haven't seen the end of him, but can't remember if Melisandra actually killed him in the book. I know she needs the blood of a king for one of her gruesome spells.

Knowing what the future holds for Ygritt made that last scene very sad for me.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Apparently he did in the books...but since the TV series failed to introduce Edric Storm...who was Robert Barratheon's bastard son that Davoos manages to save, they decided to combine Gendry and Edric Storm into one character. So..there's hope. They may save him yet.

Felt the same way about Ygritt...although I can't remember what happened to her - exactly, just that she died. (Don't tell me, they may change it anyhow.)