Game of Thrones - The Bear & the Maiden Fair

[shadowkat]

So this is the GRRM written episode - where the writer just can't resist referencing the other episode he wrote, last year's "The Battle of Blackwater" - where the wildfire burned many ships.

Eh, this series is gorier than I remember the books. Ahem this does not bode well for what lies ahead, does it? Don't say you weren't warned. And oh, there are spoilers for the episode below of course, hence the cut-tagging.



Best exchange of dialogue is once again Tyrion and Bronn. By the way if you like Tyrion's dry wit...you might like G.A. Aiken's series about Dragons. OTOH, warning, it is bloody and has lots of graphic sex and thrusting pretty bodies. It is a book though, sans pictures, so...you can always imagine the bodies however you deem fit.

Bronn: Come on, you can't say the idea of fucking Sansa hasn't crossed your mind? She's a pretty thing. You can put a child in her belly, and keep Shae as your mistress on the side. Besides your heir will get Winterfell - you can rule it.
Tyrion: I don't pay you to put evil ideas into my head, the one's already in there don't need the company.

[My sympathies, feel exactly the same way.]

Also agree with Tyrion's view that Sansa is too young for him. If only Littlefinger were quite so logical.

Margarey sees things like Bronn does. Both are practical characters. She more or less gives Sansa the same advice - you'll get Casterly rock and your son will inherit. Sansa much like Tyrion just thinks - but I'll have to have sex with Tyrion to do it. Margarey no fool tries to point out that Tyrion isn't such a bad deal - actually Sansa is better off with Tyrion than either of the other two options she had, Little Finger and Loras. (The book gave her a better one - in Loras' handicapped yet heterosexual brother, who was allegedly kind and attractive in other ways.)

There's two other great scenes - Jamie and Brienne and Jon Snow and Ygritte. The only two relationships outside of Samwell and Gilly that I actually shipped in these novels. (Sorry Robb does nothing for me. Although his wife is definitely more appealing than she was in the books, not hard considering she was more or less a non-entity in the books).

* Jamie and Brienne - or the Bear and the Maiden Fair. This is interesting. First we get our first taste of how sadistic Roose Bolton is and decisively double-dealing. He is willing to free Jamie - as long as Jamie tells dear old Dad that Bolton had nothing to do with his maiming. (Of course Bolton did - since Locke is Bolton's man and did it with Bolton's blessing more or less.) And that Lock gets to keep Brienne to play with. Then Bolton takes off. Jamie convinces Bolton's soliders who have been tasked with getting him back to Kings Landing intact - so that Tywin Lannister can reward Bolton, into going back for Brienne.

He comes to this conclusion during a discussion with the medic/physician healing his arm.
Jamie realizes the physician lost his "Master's Chain and Status" due to the fact that he was discovered experimenting on his ailing patients. Basically he was opening them up to see what was wrong with them, ahem, while they were still alive and without anesthesia. Amongst other things. He tells Jamie - well how many people have you killed? Jamie guesses a quarter of a million or in that range. And how many have you saved? Ten million - the population of King's Landing. But he pauses, thinking about someone he left behind and a debt owed. So he convinces the group to go back with a threat - if you don't take me back and help me retrieve Brienne, I'll tell my father a story you won't like that much.

But Jamie doesn't stop there - when they reach Harrenhal, he hears the men chanting Bear, Bear, Maiden Fair...and pushes his way through the mob. Discovering Brienne in a wooden pit with a live bear. She's attempting to fit it off with a wooden spear and failing, as one would expect. Jamie, realizing how important his life is to the guard that he brought with him, leaps into the pit with her - in the hopes they'll fire on the Bear. They do and he manages to get her out, and then himself - with great risk to himself. She helps pull him out in return.

This was more or less all I needed to start shipping these two characters madly in the book - where the sequence was far longer. It's done just as well here. The only problem is you know it will end badly. The only characters that don't end badly in these books are the one's not grasping for power, it seems.

* Jon Snow/Ygritte - another great relationship. Ygritte is even more likable here than she was in the books. Both characters grated on my nerves in the books. The actors make them work. There's chemistry between them. And banter. Plus - their discussions about the futility of war, and honor, and how in the end they should just fight for each other and live for today - are rather fun.

I feel for Ygritte though...since I know Snow will betray her. Can't remember how exactly. But it is definitely forshadowed.

* Theon. Damn. This is really spoiling for Theon's arc in Dance with Dragon's, which alluded to what happened in this episode but did not go so far as to show it. I thought about fast-forwarding and almost did. The whole bit with the whores, then the torturer (Ramsay Snow), was just...excruciating. At least they blurred the screen with Theon's screams in the background. It was to a degree forshadowed when Ramsay Snow teased about what essential and non-essential body parts he could remove. And forshadowed with Varrys discussing his torture - and how he became an enuche. Plus the Unsullied. Castration is a big theme in GRRM's tales.
The Unsullied are castrated, Varrys is, and so is Theon. Also, it does to a degree lend a certain level of justification to all those early scenes in season one where we see Theon's penis and watch Theon enjoying himself with Roz. Poor Roz and Theon. If only they'd run off together...when he proposed it. Things would have ended so differently for both - they would not have ended up the playthings of sadistic bastards.

I'm not entirely sure the series needed to show us this. Nor do I understand the point of the Theon arc. It's not a matter of realism. There's a lot of horrible things that happen.
But I'm with Tyrion - got enough nasty things in my head, they don't need company. Not sure showing this stuff is necessary? I don't know, on the fence. I've admittedly read and seen worse in tv shows, films and books.

What else happened? Oh we got the Melisandra/Gendry discussion about Gendry being Robert Barratheon's bastard and Melissandra being the descendent of a slave and working her way up via her god. The one true god. The Red God. Meanwhile Bedric tries to convince Ayra of the holiness of his cause. I actually rather like Bedric - he's sort of a cynical about it or resigned. Arya's pissed - for various and sundry reasons - all of which justified. 1) Bedric let the Hound go, 2) he let Melisandra take Gendry, 3) he broke his promise to take her to Riverrun and is now going South to fight Lannisters. (Although on the Riverrun bit, I thought the same thing I did while reading the book - don't bother going there, by the time you get there - no one will be there, well maybe the BlackFish and Robb's wife will - unless they change things and Robb takes his wife to the wedding - but I doubt it, since she's preggers (she was in the book's too - that hasn't changed). They others all be at the Frey wedding.)

Robb and company plot what they will do after the wedding, and how they will handle the wedding and how this will help them. Sigh. Characters in these books really should stop planning for the future...it's sort of pointless. Ygritte has the right attitude.

Oh and Tywin Lannister verbally puts wayward Joffrey in his place. I loved how he did that - it was adepty done, reminded me a little of Tyrion. Tywin and Tyrion are a lot a like - but they were in the books.

Finally Dany, who is letting her power go to her head - and starting to take on a whole lot more than she can chew. After things went so well in Astapor, she decides to try the same approach in Yunkai. But it doesn't quite go down as expected. Seriously, Dany, I know you mean well in regards to freeing all the slaves - but unless you personally can provide for all their needs - I'm not sure you are doing them any favors - a point that is addressed in Dance with Dragons. The transition between a world with slavery and one without is not as easy as one might think. I'm not saying she shouldn't do it, just that she needs to think about the consequences and prepare better for them than she currently is. (This comes back to bite her in Book Five and is a major theme of Book five. But is built up to in book 3.)


Overall good episode.

Comments

[mamculuna.livejournal.com]

I did fast forward the Theon scene again (0 for 3 so far).

I was thinking that I didn't remember that Sansa was ever even contemplating marriage to Loras. Right! It was his brother, the one with some problems. Thanks for catching me up. That would have been a much better deal for her than what turns out to happen after Tyrion.

Yes, liking this very much, still.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

It turns out that the scene with Theon wasn't too bad - it was mostly the two girls sexing him up - so Ramsay Snow could, well...castrate him.
But I found it cringe inducing anyhow and very hard to stomach. I really could do without this bit. GRRM is a sadistic bastard - he wrote this episode. Although one could say he has a twisted sense of humor - because if you think of the number of times Theon is shown going on about sex and seeing women as just sexual conquests, including his own sister when he encounters her and forgets she's his sister, it makes sense. But still - hard to watch. Couldn't they have just told us and not shown...like in the books? Less is more!!! The book is subtle about it, I only caught it - because, well I was afraid of missing important plot points.

Oh year, Sansa even visits Highgarden and meets the guy, I think. He's nice. He's lame in one leg - a cleft foot or something like that, can't remember. Loras' older brother - who is very kind and gentle. And into horses. I was rooting for her to marry him and highly annoyed when Tyrion was forced to marry her. And then she escaped to creepy Little Finger. (We know less of what he was up to in the books - or it is less clear how he manipulated everything. Here the writers are making it crystal clear.) I think in book 4 - Little Finger was manuavering to have her marry another guy - a solider, who would fight to make her Queen. A hunk. Can't remember who it was - just that he was manipulating it.

The TV series is quite good.

Oh...have you read "The Iron King" saga - by the French writer, apparently that's the story that inspired Song of Ice and Fire.

[flameraven.livejournal.com]

Incorrect; Sansa never meets Willas because she never gets to go to Highgarden. The Lannisters find out about the plot beforehand and foil it by marrying Sansa off to Tyrion. Sansa being 13 and still a little bit of romantic, she wasn't thrilled about being married to someone who is lame, but the Tyrells assure her that he's very nice and she'll grow to love him. Sadly, she never got the chance to find out.

In book 4, Sansa is spirited off to the Eyrie by Littlefinger and disguised as his bastard daughter, Alayne Stone. There are tentative plans to have her marry Robert, the gross little kid who still breastfeeds at 6, but these never go through. Of course Robert in the books also has seizures or shaking fits; if he doesn't die (I forget) it's certainly implied he won't live long. And it's increasingly clear that Littlefinger just wants Sansa for himself because she looks so much like Catelyn. Ew.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Eh, you appear to have forgotten the plot after they leave the Eyrie, where he is negotiating an alliance with an attractive warrior - who he is trying to convince to fight for them and make her the Queen of Winterfell - this takes place in Feast of Crows.

[flameraven.livejournal.com]

I'm rereading the book at the moment, so I suppose I haven't gotten there yet.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

It's towards the end of Feast of Crows, if memory serves. In the last Sansa pov chapter that I read. It may be in Dance With Dragons...I can't remember. I got bogged down in Dance, around 30% of the way through and gave up for a while.

[flameraven.livejournal.com]

You're right, it's Sansa's last chapter in Feast for Crows. They leave the Eyrie for the castle at the base of the mountain, and Littlefinger tells Sansa that he's secured a betrothal to her with Harry the Heir, who will take over as Defender of the Vale when young Robert dies. Harry's supposedly charming, although he's older, with two bastard children of his own already. But the plan is to reveal Sansa's identity at their wedding and have the Vale fight to reclaim Winterfell for her. Because clearly Westeros needs MORE fighting.

I didn't really enjoy FFC last time I read it, but this time I was oddly amused. Maybe it's because I skipped large bits of it, reading mostly Cersei, Jaime, Sansa and Arya, but I was just really amused to see Cersei keep digging herself in so deeply.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Little-Finger's somewhat pathetic plan to throw his hat into the Game of Thrones. I want to tell him - you don't have a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding at this game. Dany has Dragons. And Stannis has Melisandra. You just have Sansa. Give it up already.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

The books are actually unclear if Robb's wife is pregnant. This generates lots of speculation and argument on the Westeros boards. Making it explicit, in an episode GRRM wrote, adds fuel to the fire. Of course, it all depends on what happens in Ep. 9 (RW).

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I thought it was pretty explicit in Feast of Crows...when she pretty much tells Jamie that she is, and is fully rounded with child. The only question is whether it is actually Robb's.

This is the problem with GRRM's writing, it's so dense, people argue over the actual plot.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

The debate comes from the fact that the mother also says that she was giving her daughter Moon Tea (which would prevent pregnancy). The debate spirals downward pretty quickly from there into things like the size of her hips (really).

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Oh dear. This episode probably didn't help...considering GRRM himself wrote it. LOL!

From what I remember in Jamie's pov - the daughter was pregnant with Robb's kid, whether she gives birth to it or not, don't know. Jamie mentions that it is mostly irrelevant in any event since Robb's claim to the throne is sort of dead by now. (Seriously, with Stannis burning every king's son he can get his hands on...)

Seriously, you can interpret some of the stuff in these books in mulitple ways - because you have a lot of unreliable narrators. Jamie is not exactly the most reliable of narrators.

I think fans forget how important "point of view narration" is - and how unreliable. That's why the story contradicts itself - you see the same events through more than one pov. What Jon Snow does with Gilly and Sam is shown through both Sam's and Jon's points of view. It's clever, but frustrating to read at times, not to mention confusing.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly on the POV. Martin has expressly said that you shouldn't trust the narrators, and there are plenty of examples.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

It's why you can't really skim very well ...because sometimes a character will slip up and reveal something important. Also you have to keep track of what each one says and how it contradicts another one.

For example - Tyrion thinks Master Pycelle killed Jon Arryn, when it was actually Lyssa and LittleFinger who did it. Tyrion cages the wrong guy. And he never figures out who kills Joffrey. You really have to pay attention to that one...it's sort of revealed in the dialogue, but both Sansa and Tyrion are too focused on what is going on with them personally to pick up on it.

Same deal with Brann...the person who hired the hitman is important because of what it says about Robert Barratheon and to a degree Ned's and Catelynn's misplaced trust in Barratheon. But you have to pay attention and it is revealed in Jamie's pov, of all the pov's to have it revealed in. Just as Jon Arryn's murderer is revealed in Sansa's pov. Jamie figures out who did and Tyrion realizes it as well. It's also important in how it is revealed - because of what it says about both Jamie and Tyrion - in how they handle the knowledge.

But you have to pay attention to pick up on it.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

Good examples. And yes to the skimming. I skimmed books 4 & 5 on first read, then had to go back to them to figure out what happened.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you really can't do that...I tried that with books 1 & 2 & 3, and paid for it. I was really only interested in Jamie's arc when I began reading the books back in 2004. People online told me it was like Spike's but better. (I'm not sure if I agree with them on that or not. It may not be as dense and well plotted, but it was certainly more entertaining and fun.) I went into those books highly spoiled - it taints perspective.

So I had to go back and actually read 1 and 2. And since I was spoiled on book 3, I waited four years to read it - until I forgot most of it.

They are confusing if you skim...you stumble upon a key plot point and think, hey, wait a minute! Actually that can happen even if you don't skim, because you forget things. For instance, I completely forgot about Theon Greyjoy. I had to be reminded that he got taken captive at the end of book 2, beginning of book 3. I thought he was either in Winterfell or on the Iron Isles, happy as a clam or just dead.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

JMHO, but Jaime has a long way to go to get to Spike.

Yeah, I got totally lost on Reek for quite a while thanks to skimming.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'd agree. While Jamie's arc may well be more realistic, it's not as emotionally satisfying.

Can't imagine why you'd want to skim on Reek...(hee). Seriously, I skimmed all the Theon chapters...then had to go back and figure out what happened.
For example - thought he actually killed Bran and Rickon, but they popped up again - wait! So I had to go back and figure out what he did.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

I went through the same process with Bran and Rickon.

[flameraven.livejournal.com]

In FFC Jaime meets with Jeyne and her mother; he asks 'are you carrying Robb's kid?" and her mom says "No she's not; I made sure of that." And Jeyne runs out crying.

So whether she was pregnant or not, the point would seem to be moot.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

Well, not to go too far down the rabbit hole, the theory is that either Sibell was lying or that the Moon Tea didn't work. It goes on to say that Jeyne is actually pregnant, but the girl Jaime saw was actually Jeyne's sister. That's where the hips come in. Earlier, Jeyne was described as having wider hips (I can't recall the exact word), but Jaime describes her as having narrow hips.

The basic idea is that Jeyne is really pregnant, the Westerlings are lying in order to cover it up, and they've substituted the sister for Jeyne, who is now in hiding.

I'm agnostic on this theory, but it's possible the TV show will soon give us more clues.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Not sure why it matters. It doesn't further or change the plot in any way. There's at least three other kids who are heirs surviving. Plus Rickon, which has disappeared from both the book and tv series now.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

It matters to the order of succession. Robb's kid, if there is one, would be first in line for Winterfell and King in the North.

That's why part of Jaime's deal with the Westerlings was that Jeyne couldn't marry for 2 years -- to assure that any child was not Robb's. That's also why the Westerlings would lie about any pregnancy -- the Lannisters would kill Jeyne and/or the child if they found out.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Considering Winterfell is ashes, and the North is about to be invaded by wights and zombies, with Stannis up there busy burning people with any hint of "Kings Blood in them" for power - it's sort of hard to care.

Oh forgot to add, you also have to fight Roose Bolton and Ramsay Snow for it.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

True, but the Stark name has a great hold on the North. Controlling the Stark heir is really important if you want to rule that area.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

But why would you want to? Be like ruling Anatartic with Zombies attacking every five minutes?

[sophist.livejournal.com]

Jaime doesn't know about the Others; nobody in the South does. As far as Jaime knows, Bran and Rickon are dead, Sansa is under Lannister control, Arya is missing, and Jon is in the NW and a bastard. That leaves the Lannisters with the ability to control the North and end the rebellion.

[gingerwall.livejournal.com]

Agree on basically all counts. I really loved the conversation between Sansa and Marjorie, especially how they ended it. Sansa thinks she's growing up, and she is, but she still has a long way to go.