Ranking Buffy Episodes and the Relevance of Reviews and well ranking Buffy episodes...

[shadowkat]

So someone attempted to rank the Buffy episodes, all 144 of them. Go read and disagree at will, I certainly did, although I admittedly didn't post any comments - just did it in my head or here on my own lj : http://www.buzzfeed.com/louispeitzman/ranking-every-episode-of-buffy-the-vampire-slayer?bftw

The link basically proves something I've long suspected - these types of games tell people more about the people playing the game than about the show. Actually reviews in general tend to. For example? If a music reviewer scoffs or derides music that is not "classical" or "opera", you begin to think the person is a bit snooty and needs to lighten up and get out more. While a reviewer who only likes Katy Perry songs...comes across as...you fill in the blank. In short, we don't learn anything about the music - and just react to the reviewer's tastes.

Also, if the reviewer/ranker isn't careful they can turn you (the reader of the review) against a piece of music, a book, a movie or a tv series they adore - making you, the reader, despise it - having never ever seen it. (This sort of happened briefly for me in regards to Breaking Bad. People, in particular television critics, were so "obnoxious" in their adoration of it - stating it was BETTER than everything else, it was hard to like it. BB tended to bring out the asshole in their viewers/fans. Not sure why. 50 Shades of Grey had a similar effect, as did Twilight. Hype is not always a good thing.) It's weird when it happens. The opposite can happen as well - a reviewer will deride or rip apart a book or tv series - and in the process turn you on to it or make you so curious about it - you have to see it or read it. (See 50 Shades of Grey. It actually falls into both categories!) In short, reviewing is an odd occupation. Why we pay people to do it, I've no clue. Before the internet, it sort of made sense - because not everyone could post their opinion. You had to get a paper or magazine to employ you to post one. Now, however, why bother paying them? Do people like Robert Bianco, Alan Sepinwall, Owen Glieberman, Ken Tucker, etc...really need to be paid for just writing their opinions? Are their opinions any more relevant or interesting than those who aren't being paid?

Eh, I don't know. Sorry for the tangent. Distracting self from work-related stress.

Anywho..admittedly it's been a while since I've watched Buffy (last time was in 2009), and my tastes may have changed, since my obsession has definitely disappeared. That said, there are some headscratching moments on this person's list.

First off - I may be in the minority here? But I thought Beer Bad was a whole lot funnier than Gone, which felt sort of silly in places. And I'd certainly rank Smashed higher than Older and Far Away, Gone, and Doublemeat Palace. The ranker clearly despised Riley, yet for some reason did not rank As You Were third from last. Also they have an odd fondness for the First Evil and Amends.

Also...Chosen. Did Chosen make you cry? I didn't cry. My mother didn't cry. The guy I watched it with didn't cry. And we've been known to cry at Hallmark commercials...and Grey's Anatomy episodes. Yet, this ranker - saw it as a top episode and adored it, and it made them cry.

Clearly the ranker is a Faith, Spike and to a degree Angel fan. Also a Giles fan. Not so much a Xander or for that matter Riley fan (although to be fair neither got great episodes).

They did not like S4, S7, and S6. But adored S1 - Nightmares, Out of Sight Out of Mind, Witch are all ranked highly (yes, go figure) as is Doomed (which blew my mind). Although kudos that they admitted the rocket launcher tackle in HIM is comedy gold (it is). But seriously All the Way ranked higher than Never Leave Me, Beneath Me, and Smashed???

And dear lord, Family...? They stated that this was a good examination of how badly men treat women???? Oh dear. (Family is one big huge cliche after another, and preachy as all get out.) And they hated the Pack???

So, yes, some headscratching moments.

I'll do an abbreviated listing off the top of my head, because seriously 144 episodes takes way too much time. Also upon reading the below - keep in mind everything I said in the above half of the post...

Bottom ten:

Family (yes, the stereotypical redneck white trash family who is into the bible - Whedon your upper class prejudices are showing), Amends (it's magic Christmas snow...and sigh, the First EVIL! When this show was cheesy, it was REALLY cheesy), As You Were (here it's GI Joe and GI Jane but with less personality, return to save the day and teach everyone morality lessons), Teacher's Pet, I Robot You Jane, Go Fish, Wrecked (magic as crack - complete with crack den leader with a yen for molesting young women), Older and Far Away (pacing issues), Where the Wild Things Are (has similar issues to Family - apparently stereotypical bible thumping backwards fundamentalists are a recurring villain trope for Whedon series - found them in Firefly as well. Annoying. Not even the great Giles/Spike/Anya/Xander scenes could save it.), Some Assembly Required (too cheesy for words and Frankenstein for some reason is harder to pull off than it looks).

[Doomed is saved by the scenes with Spike, Willow and Xander - you just have to ignore the plot and Buffy/Riley. Beer Bad is saved by SMG's ability for comic timing and Xander/Giles who were hilarious in the episode.]

Top ten:

1)Once More with Feeling, 2) the Body, 3)Hush, 4)Becoming, 5)Restless, 6) Fool for Love, 7)Lies My Parents Told Me (although I agree with the ranker that Robin Wood's character didn't work - his vendetta seemed a bit long in the tooth and too late.), 8) Conversations with Dead People, 9)Beneath Me (and yes I liked the whole episode so sue me - the ranked hated the first part with the Sluggoth demon - and yet they thought Family was innovative?)/ Selfless (tied), 10) Dopplegangland

Comments

[spikesjojo.livejournal.com]

SMG tweeted that The Prom should have been rated much higher!

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

SMG tweeted that The Prom should have been rated much higher!

I've heard her say or imply in interviews that she loves that one, but I don't know why that one in particular. It's not a great ep in and of itself. The scene where Buffy FINALLY gets some recognition from her classmates (and Giles' proud smile) is fantastic. Get out the tissues.

The bangel of it is - ugh. He breaks up with her in a sewer, then shows up at the dance. STOP YANKING THE POOR GIRL AROUND, ANGEL. (yeah I may have issues about that.*lol*)

[eilowyn.livejournal.com]

She got to wear a pretty Vera Wang dress (and ruin a Rolling Stones cover song for me for all eternity). Of course she likes The Prom! Of course, how Buffy could afford a Vera Wang dress isn't addressed ...

Oh, and she ships Buffy/Angel, and there was the whole wedding scene that launched a thousand fics.

The bangel of it is - ugh. He breaks up with her in a sewer, then shows up at the dance. STOP YANKING THE POOR GIRL AROUND, ANGEL.

And his showing up is supposed to be ~romantic. Hence the ruined Rolling Stones cover.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Oh, and she ships Buffy/Angel, and there was the whole wedding scene that launched a thousand fics.

I remember the rumor online at that time was SMG and Boreanze were romantically involved behind the scenes (even though he was married and that had something to do with the divorce). At any rate - they apparently got along very well.

While SMG and JM tended to rub each other the wrong way - ie they did NOT like each other. (I got that from JM's Q&A's not SMG, who learned from her time at All My Children not to talk about other cast members to the press. Also Whedon sort of hints at it during the commentary of Wild At Heart - resulting in a very awkward and somewhat hilarious moment in the commentary between Whedon and Seth Green.)

[kikimay]

Also Whedon sort of hints at it during the commentary of Wild At Heart - resulting in a very awkward and somewhat hilarious moment in the commentary between Whedon and Seth Green

Really? When?
I also read about the SMG/DB rumors but I didn't care about them. I've always thought that Sarah shipped Bangel because it was her fantasy but when Ringer premiered DB send her a good luck twit, so maybe it's also because they were friends or whatever.

(and ruin a Rolling Stones cover song for me for all eternity)

Whatever! The original is better anyway! XDDDDD

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

The commentary in Wild at Heart - is during Willow and Seth's sex scene and nudity. Seth Green comments that for those types of scenes it's better if the two actors are friends and supportive, and says he knows that Buffy and Spike are at it right now (they did the commentary after Smash and Wreck aired). And wasn't sure how well they got along, but hoped they did. And asks if they are friends, etc? Whedon responds along the lines of: (after a pregnant pause) well you know, sometimes it's much better when the actors don't get along - the screen loves it. (another pause). Seth coughs. Whedon amends: but you guys were cute too.(indicating Willow/Oz). LOL!

So yep. Did NOT get along. They had completely different acting styles. Marsters was theater trained, owned a theater company at one point, and pure method, with a lot of schooling. Gellar had no college, a child actress from daytime soaps and television. Her style was more intuitive - and similar to David Boreanze and Nathan Fillion. No prep. Learn the lines fast (because of soaps) and do what director said. Marsters - prepped, was the character at all times.

Completely different approaches. That's why they didn't get along. Neither respected the others' style at the time. It's no different than being at you work place - you despise some co-workers but love others, just imagine having to kiss and make out with the ones...you despise?

[enisy.livejournal.com]

Not true about James and Sarah. Whedon confirms to Seth that they got along well, before going on that tangent about onscreen chemistry. And you can tell by all the quotage, especially on James's part:
http://enisy.livejournal.com/1434.html
http://enisy.livejournal.com/1654.html

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Not true about James and Sarah.

I remember seeing those pages about a year or so ago, thanks for the links. He is extremely complimentary of her in those quotes.

In the dailies I've watched from S6 (Smashed, Wrecked, DT) they certainly seem to work together well.

Is it possible that changed near the end of the series? (Then again everyone seemed exhausted at the end. I imagine working that long and that intimately with any group of people, you get tired of it eventually and need to move on.)

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I think its like any working relationship - some days you hate your co-workers, some days you love them. Depends on your mood, what you ate that morning etc.

I've watched Q&A's where Marsters blasts Gellar in hilarious fashion. (One, she told him she was the star of the show and not to get big-headed, and in another he told her that he was fine hanging on the cross all day - go ahead and take a 20 minute or an hour bathroom break...He was actually, it wasn't painful, but she didn't know that.)

In others he's very complimentary.

Gellar wisely doesn't say a thing - because been there done that with All My Children. (Gellar and Susan Lucci who played mother and daughter - did NOT get along.)

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I don't know. I've heard two versions of the story. In some Q&A's James talks about how they really didn't get along. And in other's he says they did. [I could provide links and quotes too...but really don't feel like hunting them at the moment. They are in my livejournal somewhere.]

And the commentary...can be interpreted two ways.

I'm not sure it matters in any event. I know in work and in school - sometimes you get along with your coworkers sometimes you really don't. Which I think was most likely the case here. Some days - they loved each other, some days they hated each other.

It's not like they are working together now or even friends.

Honestly, I ask myself sometimes...why do we even care??? LOL! (I suppose because we think that the actors had to love each other or really get along for their characters to work? Yet, in the film Officer and a Gentleman - the lead actors (Debra Winger and Richard Gere) hated each other, as did Vivian Lee and Clark Gable in Gone with the Wind...

I also wonder why we care what their favorite episodes were or which romance they preferred or which person they wanted to be paired with.
It's like asking a co-worker - who they like to work with the most.
I don't know about you? But for me - this changes on a daily basis.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Of course, how Buffy could afford a Vera Wang dress isn't addressed ...

Was it a Vera Wang? I wasn't aware of that. (How many people watching it would have been?) Expecting sense of economic matters in the buffyverse is like expecting gold leaf on a cheese pizza.

Remember Prophecy Girl re: the white dress "We can't afford it." When in that entire season had there been a single indication that Joyce and Buffy were struggling economically? In that sprawling Arts and Crafts Bungalow house large enough to house a small army (pun intended), Joyce driving a jeep and managing or owning (?) an art gallery we never see - galleries, btw, are NOT income producers. tax write-offs is more like it. Buffy wearing multiple outfits each episode and enough plastic rings to fill a single Forever 21 store.

And the thing is, Joyce could have gotten the dress at JC Penney's or even Sears, so I'm not seeing the big budget-breaker here. But we know from S6 that Hank and Joyce never taught Buffy a thing about economics.

there was the whole wedding scene that launched a thousand fics.

That was a nightmare of Angel's that ended with Buffy immolating in the sunlight. So that scene at least is definitely not "played straight". What fandom does with it isn't the show's fault. Everyone romanticizes Romeo and Juliet, but it's a play that features two stupid young people who commit suicide & there's nothing romantic about it. (Or Wuthering Heights, etc.)

Hence the ruined Rolling Stones cover.

That cover version or the song itself?

I think the other thing that irks me about it is that, he shows up after buffy's big moment - can she not have a big moment, a moment in the sun or the spotlight that doesn't then turn out to be about the men & the ships?

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I think the Sunday's did the cover version? I admittedly prefer the Rolling Stones version. Have both on my ipod. And have listened to them back to back, the Rolling Stones version is less sappy and edgier, has a bit more bass or something. Can't put my finger on it, exactly.

The writers were critiquing the star-crossed lover/romeo and juliet trope throughout Buffy. Actually Vampire Diaries is doing it too at the moment.
Why television writers feel the need to critique these romantic tropes, yet don't critic violent pulp novel tropes is beyond me.

Agreed on the financial inconsistencies. They clearly wanted their cake and eat it too - ie, have the characters dress beautifully and stylish, but also have them struggling financially. LOL!

In this episode - we had Cordelia struggling to buy a dress, because she's suddenly poor and has to work in boutique to afford one. Buffy meanwhile isn't working (outside of slaying) and her mother works in a gallery and is single and maybe getting child support? Yet, gets to wear an expensive prom dress?

Buffy was basically broke when the writers wanted to write about what it's like to be broke (Doublemeat Palace, Flooded, Life Serial, Gone, As You Were) and not broke when they decided it was boring and didn't want to write about it.

Plot consistency is hard thing to come by in television dramas, sitcoms and serials.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Yes, her love of "The Prom" has always bewildered me. Yes - the scene at the end is lovely...but it last two seconds.

[spikesjojo.livejournal.com]

I do like Giles and Wesley - emotional maturity of a blueberry scone. XD
Maybe she just had a lot of FEELS while taping this one.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I have to remind myself that Gellar was 20 years of age at the time and most likely didn't get a prom, since she was at a different sort of school.

There's a huge difference between acting in/watching a series at the age of 20 and at the age of 30.

Also acting in an episode is different than watching it. I know a lot of actors who adored movies and roles, that I've thought and critics have thought were horrible, while movies they despised working on - got multiple critical awards.