For Buffy and well Angel fans...
Oct. 10th, 2023 06:16 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkatFor Buffy and Angel fans...or rather Tara, Anya, Spike, Cordelia, Dru and Giles fans, and fans of the actors who portrayed them?
Buffy Cast Reunion on Audible - Slayers by Amber Bensen and Christopher Golden
It's basically an interview with Golden, Benson, Marsters, and Chase.
Extensive Interview with Marsters about Spike for the 20th Anniversary with Radio Times
Marsters recalls a female writer penning the bathroom scene in question. He said she recalled her own experience of "throwing herself" at an ex-boyfriend years before, and she wanted to "flip the sexes" to have Spike throw himself at Buffy.
"That was the crushing experience that she wanted to write about. I think that, because Buffy is a superhero and was fully capable of throwing Spike through a wall, they could flip the sexes. The point I was trying to make when I read that script was everyone who watches Buffy is Buffy, that's the trick of storytelling...when I watch Buffy, I'm Buffy. And the people out there watching Buffy aren't superheroes. So I'm gonna be doing this to them. You can't flip the sexes on these characters and not have blowback, it's going to have unintended consequences.
"The other thing is that they were very frustrated because they couldn't convince the audience to stop rooting for Spike, they did not want the audience to say, 'Spike and Buffy forever,' that's just not what they were going for. They kept having me do worse and worse things trying to get people to realise.
"Even Spike at one point goes, 'Hey guys, I'm evil.' Because the audience refused to do that, they finally landed on that scene. They kept having me do worse and worse things and finally they're like, 'OK, we're just gonna have him do that to Buffy, like there's nothing else that we have that's going to make this point.' That was another reason for that scene.
"When you know those things, maybe it will inform how you react to that scene. I don't know if it means it was the right thing to do. I know it doesn't seem to age well but what I want people to know is it wasn't a cavalier decision. It wasn't just like, 'Oh well, these things are OK and it might be sexy and spicy if we do this.' That wasn't what the writers were thinking at all.
"It was very well considered and it was coming from a good place. It was the hardest day of my professional career, it sent me into therapy. I collapsed on set, I couldn't even speak, I was shaking. That was a horrible day...when that script came, I was contracted to do anything that they said to anybody that they said to do it. I was legally compelled to do that scene. It wasn't fun to watch probably, but it wasn't fun to film either."
Spike's story ends in the finale episode, Chosen, when he sacrifices himself in a literal blaze of glory to destroy the Hellmouth – saving the lives of Buffy and her friends, and countless others.
New on Disney Plus UK May 2023 – every new film and show this month
A Small Light, American Born Chinese and The Muppets Mayhem are among this month's highlights.
Speaking about how Spike's story was left, Marsters reflects: "My favourite line, actually, is when [Buffy] says 'I love you' and [Spike] says, 'No, you don't. But thanks for saying it.' Because, for me, this is the first time that I thought Spike might really be able to redeem himself because he's basically saying, 'Buffy, you can't love me. You were right. I am beneath you. I have done horrible things. I have been a mass murderer, man. You're a hero. You can't love that. You might be attracted to me because I'm bomb sexy. That's true. But you might feel sorry for me, or whatever it is. But no, that's impossible.'
"And the fact that he could see himself clearly meant that he might be able to change. Up until that point, he was not wanting to face it. But I think that with that line, you can see that he sees it clearly. You know, 'I've been horrible.'"
It's no secret that in the past few years, Buffy has hit headlines for all the wrong reasons, largely relating to creator Joss Whedon. But for Marsters, the show's legacy is what will remain with him and with the fans.
"I feel lucky every day that I was a part of it at all. There's nothing wrong with a television show that entertains and is happy to to just that, that's worthy. I have a hard day, sometimes I just want to be entertained just for an hour at the end of that day. That's important, that's a good service to the earth if you can do that.
"But also, if you can do that, and also give the audience something that helps them long term, if you can be part of a show that matters in some way, that's just amazing. Buffy was one of the first shows to make the point that women can fight back. Back when it was first aired, it was making some people angry. That made me really happy. Like we're offending all the right people with this! But it was also giving this underlying message to both men and women – don't give up. Keep going, man."
And..
Inside Joss Whedon’s ‘Cutting’ and ‘Toxic’ World of ‘Buffy’ and ‘Angel’ (EXCLUSIVE)
"Interviews that Variety conducted with 11 individuals who worked directly on “Buffy” or “Angel,” or were closely familiar with the productions during their runs on The WB and UPN, painted a portrait of Whedon as a talented, collaborative writer-producer with a pattern of inappropriate, imperious and disparaging behavior toward those who worked for him. Whedon created a “cult of personality” around himself, according to these sources. Those on the inside of Whedon’s circle basked in his attention, praise and friendship; those on the outside got the opposite: scorn, derision and callousness. (Everyone Variety spoke with did so on condition of anonymity, either so they could speak freely or out of concern for their careers.)
Variety also reached out to 40 other actors, writers, producers and directors from “Buffy” and “Angel” — including Sarah Michelle Gellar, Michelle Trachtenberg, Amber Benson, Eliza Dushku, David Boreanaz and Alyson Hannigan — all of whom declined to participate in this story."
Which is interesting - the actors declined to participate, but the crew and writers did on the condition of anonymity. Making it difficult to know how much of what they state is true? Except this happens a lot - most of Burn it Down - about similar allegations on various television and film sets in Hollywood - were all done with anonymity. However - if you listened to any of the Q&A's at the cons - the actors did verify most of it over the years.
***
I've only been an obsessed or huge fan of a few things in my lifetime, and not in the same way. And it's often fleeting.
We all have something that just jives with us. Don't we? But it also at some point disappoints - when we find out a touch too much about it. Which is too often the case in this day and age.
I find it interesting how fans and folks who worked on Buffy have reclaimed it as their own. They did it by writing their own fanfic.
Buffy Cast Reunion on Audible - Slayers by Amber Bensen and Christopher Golden
It's basically an interview with Golden, Benson, Marsters, and Chase.
Extensive Interview with Marsters about Spike for the 20th Anniversary with Radio Times
Marsters recalls a female writer penning the bathroom scene in question. He said she recalled her own experience of "throwing herself" at an ex-boyfriend years before, and she wanted to "flip the sexes" to have Spike throw himself at Buffy.
"That was the crushing experience that she wanted to write about. I think that, because Buffy is a superhero and was fully capable of throwing Spike through a wall, they could flip the sexes. The point I was trying to make when I read that script was everyone who watches Buffy is Buffy, that's the trick of storytelling...when I watch Buffy, I'm Buffy. And the people out there watching Buffy aren't superheroes. So I'm gonna be doing this to them. You can't flip the sexes on these characters and not have blowback, it's going to have unintended consequences.
"The other thing is that they were very frustrated because they couldn't convince the audience to stop rooting for Spike, they did not want the audience to say, 'Spike and Buffy forever,' that's just not what they were going for. They kept having me do worse and worse things trying to get people to realise.
"Even Spike at one point goes, 'Hey guys, I'm evil.' Because the audience refused to do that, they finally landed on that scene. They kept having me do worse and worse things and finally they're like, 'OK, we're just gonna have him do that to Buffy, like there's nothing else that we have that's going to make this point.' That was another reason for that scene.
"When you know those things, maybe it will inform how you react to that scene. I don't know if it means it was the right thing to do. I know it doesn't seem to age well but what I want people to know is it wasn't a cavalier decision. It wasn't just like, 'Oh well, these things are OK and it might be sexy and spicy if we do this.' That wasn't what the writers were thinking at all.
"It was very well considered and it was coming from a good place. It was the hardest day of my professional career, it sent me into therapy. I collapsed on set, I couldn't even speak, I was shaking. That was a horrible day...when that script came, I was contracted to do anything that they said to anybody that they said to do it. I was legally compelled to do that scene. It wasn't fun to watch probably, but it wasn't fun to film either."
Spike's story ends in the finale episode, Chosen, when he sacrifices himself in a literal blaze of glory to destroy the Hellmouth – saving the lives of Buffy and her friends, and countless others.
New on Disney Plus UK May 2023 – every new film and show this month
A Small Light, American Born Chinese and The Muppets Mayhem are among this month's highlights.
Speaking about how Spike's story was left, Marsters reflects: "My favourite line, actually, is when [Buffy] says 'I love you' and [Spike] says, 'No, you don't. But thanks for saying it.' Because, for me, this is the first time that I thought Spike might really be able to redeem himself because he's basically saying, 'Buffy, you can't love me. You were right. I am beneath you. I have done horrible things. I have been a mass murderer, man. You're a hero. You can't love that. You might be attracted to me because I'm bomb sexy. That's true. But you might feel sorry for me, or whatever it is. But no, that's impossible.'
"And the fact that he could see himself clearly meant that he might be able to change. Up until that point, he was not wanting to face it. But I think that with that line, you can see that he sees it clearly. You know, 'I've been horrible.'"
It's no secret that in the past few years, Buffy has hit headlines for all the wrong reasons, largely relating to creator Joss Whedon. But for Marsters, the show's legacy is what will remain with him and with the fans.
"I feel lucky every day that I was a part of it at all. There's nothing wrong with a television show that entertains and is happy to to just that, that's worthy. I have a hard day, sometimes I just want to be entertained just for an hour at the end of that day. That's important, that's a good service to the earth if you can do that.
"But also, if you can do that, and also give the audience something that helps them long term, if you can be part of a show that matters in some way, that's just amazing. Buffy was one of the first shows to make the point that women can fight back. Back when it was first aired, it was making some people angry. That made me really happy. Like we're offending all the right people with this! But it was also giving this underlying message to both men and women – don't give up. Keep going, man."
And..
Inside Joss Whedon’s ‘Cutting’ and ‘Toxic’ World of ‘Buffy’ and ‘Angel’ (EXCLUSIVE)
"Interviews that Variety conducted with 11 individuals who worked directly on “Buffy” or “Angel,” or were closely familiar with the productions during their runs on The WB and UPN, painted a portrait of Whedon as a talented, collaborative writer-producer with a pattern of inappropriate, imperious and disparaging behavior toward those who worked for him. Whedon created a “cult of personality” around himself, according to these sources. Those on the inside of Whedon’s circle basked in his attention, praise and friendship; those on the outside got the opposite: scorn, derision and callousness. (Everyone Variety spoke with did so on condition of anonymity, either so they could speak freely or out of concern for their careers.)
Variety also reached out to 40 other actors, writers, producers and directors from “Buffy” and “Angel” — including Sarah Michelle Gellar, Michelle Trachtenberg, Amber Benson, Eliza Dushku, David Boreanaz and Alyson Hannigan — all of whom declined to participate in this story."
Which is interesting - the actors declined to participate, but the crew and writers did on the condition of anonymity. Making it difficult to know how much of what they state is true? Except this happens a lot - most of Burn it Down - about similar allegations on various television and film sets in Hollywood - were all done with anonymity. However - if you listened to any of the Q&A's at the cons - the actors did verify most of it over the years.
***
I've only been an obsessed or huge fan of a few things in my lifetime, and not in the same way. And it's often fleeting.
We all have something that just jives with us. Don't we? But it also at some point disappoints - when we find out a touch too much about it. Which is too often the case in this day and age.
I find it interesting how fans and folks who worked on Buffy have reclaimed it as their own. They did it by writing their own fanfic.
no subject
Date: 2023-10-11 12:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-10-11 09:33 pm (UTC)I have a feeling being given carte blanche was not healthy for Whedon. And Greenwalt was not enough of an oversight.