The TV Cult Meme Revisited and Quibbled Over by a TV slut

[shadowkat]

Regarding that meme on TV Guide's top 30 Cult TV Shows? Have a few quibbles regarding their definition of cult, which reminds me of a lengthy lunch debate I had with a guy I dated a few years back at Evil Company. He said that only fantasy and sci-fi shows were *cult*. I said, no, a sci-fi show might not be cult. X-Files for example had jumped out of cult status. Cult - I informed him - was a tv series, film or book that was not liked by the *mainstream* or not a *best-seller* - it had a specific niche or fringe audience. People adored it, but they didn't talk about it in public and it wasn't something you saw in the Neilson ratings. It's the sort of thing - that someone will hesistantly admit to in an elevator and you'll stop and say cool! ME too!

In short - a show like The Sopranos was NOT cult. While Buffy the Vampire Slayer definitely was. Cult was not the same as *excellent* or *horrid* - what it meant was a show that may or may not be loved by critics, was often dismissed, and never taken seriously by the powers that be - the best seller lists, Nielsen's, EW's and mainstream media - and you have to hunt on your tv dial - because it appears at weird times, jumps channels, and well is hard to find. CULT is a show or book or film you discover through your friends. Not the media. It's not advertised. It's not well marketed. Until after we've discovered it - long after. Yet, at the same time, CULT is also something that has a certain quality or lasting resonance. Something that scholars will obsess over. CULT is an artwork people OBSESS over. Not easily dismissed by its fans.

Cult often has a weird title. Like The Rocky Horror Picture Show or Buffy the Vampire Slayer. It's just left of center. Off the beaten track. Cult never gets awards except from fringe groups. And often has obsessive fans who go to conventions to celebrate it or late night viewings or who collect everything associated with it. They debate it vehemently but don't tell co-workers.

Course many people disagree with my definition. The guy I dated did. We ended up calling a stalemate. (Or he just shut-up and let me win.)

Shows that I don't believe can be cult because they are celebrated by the mainstream and consider pop= Lost, Heroes, Six Feet Under, Sopranoes, Seinfield, MASH, Hill Street Blues, Ugly Betty, Grey's Anatomy, Star Wars (although it does have weird obsessive fans, but they aren't quite the same as cult fans) and Harry Potter. (Note the difference - Pop = popular items. CULT = those things that live under the wire.)

Here's my list of CULT TV shows that I know about, in no particular order:

1. Buffy the Vampire Slayer
2. Star Trek (the original one)
3. Voyager
4. Deep Space Nine
5. Angel
6. Dark Angel
7. American Gothic
8. Highlander
9. Xenia
10. Space Above and Beyond
11. Firefly
12. Wonderfalls
13. Dead Like Me
14. Doctor Who
15. BattleStar Galatica2
16. Jericho
17. HEx
18. Forever Knight
19. Supernatural
20. Star Gate
21. Farscape
22. Mystery Theater 2000
23. Veronica Mars
24. Strangers with Candy
25. Rosewell
26. BlackAdder
27. Monty Python
28. Arrested Development
29. Profit
30. H&R PuffnStuff
31. Twin Peaks...which jumped sort of to the mainstream
32. Smallville
33. Tru Calling

Cult's the shows that you worry about getting renewed. That you have to hunt down. And you keep trying to get people to like, or you keep to yourself. They aren't water cooler chatter.

They are things like Rocky Horror Picture Show, Tremors...buried at the bottom of the video store. Not in wide release. On late at night. OR out of print.

What do you think?

Agree? Disagree?

Comments

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Was 'X-Files' that big? I mean what were it's Nelson numbers actually? Because although everyone we know online watched it, I'm not sure it was that widely watched across the board

Oh it was. Trust me on that one. Friends who wouldn't touch sci-fi or fantasy, loved X-Files. They just didn't discover it until after the movie came out. And the movie did good biz - better than Serenity (definitely a cult film). You talk to non-sci-fi fantasy fans and they'll list X-Files and Star Trek Next Generation as favorites. Twilight Zone was similar - everyone watched. I know very few people of my generation that did not watch or see an episode of STNG, Twilight Zone, or X-Files. Also all three were nominated for emmys. Gillian Armstrong and David Duchovy were up for nods more than once - made history as one of the few sci-fi programs to get a emmy nod.

Lost, Heroes, Ugly Betty, and The Simpsons aren't cult. The Simpsons was when it premiered on Tracy Ullman Show (which was cult), but now it's mainstream. Heroes - definitely mainstream - top of the Neilsen ratings.
X-Files was only in the Neilsen top 20. STNG was in the cable version.
Lost - definitely NOT cult - it's always in the Neilsen's and people who don't tend to like cult shows adore it. Lost is *popular*.

Wonderfalls, Dead Like Me, Firefly, Tru Calling, BTVS, Angel, Dresden Files, Eureka, BSG = all cult.

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

I agree, and have edited my 'add ons' to the meme at my lj accordingly.

But your point about X-Files above is interesting, that it is kind of cult now because it had conventions and people would hesitate to boast about loving the show (the way no would hesitate saying they loved Seinfeld or Friends).

It was like loving X-Files was cult early on because it was pretty much a standing joke that only geeks watched it, but by the time it was ending it was a huge hit, and now years later it is still syndicated and still watched, but maybe mostly by cult fans again?

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Yes. X-Files is a weird one. It sort of hit mainstream than dropped into cult again. I think it has a lot to do with those last seasons which lost a lot of people.

Twin Peaks is another example of a show that although it obtained *mainstream* interest - really is a cult series. It lost half the mainstream audience in the second season - hence its departure. Like X-Files, it's a series that while it hit mainstream, sunk back into cult, unlike Star Trek which is firmly part of mainstream now - or at least STNG is. The original, Voyager, and DS9 not so much - you had to hunt for those.

When I think of cult sci-fi, I think of: Farscape, Space Above and Beyond, Doctor Who, Space 1999, Battlestar Galatica, and Babylon 5 those series that were under the radar. You can tell a true cult sci-fi fan by saying: BSG?
And they respond - "cool! YEs!!!" or saying Tardis - and they know what you are talking about.

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

I think I would want to add to the 'cult' definition shows that are kept alive by obsessive fans long after the mainstream population have forgotten about them. That would mean like: X-Files, like Twin Peaks, is only of interest to cult fans. But Seinfeld and Friends are syndicated everywhere and still being rewatched by everyone on the planet.

I think that this is true of a lot of great films too, where they pretty much disappear from view except for film students or genre fans who keep them alive (not like main stream old movies like Casablanca or Gone With the Wind that everyone will see without having to seek them out).

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I think I would want to add to the 'cult' definition shows that are kept alive by obsessive fans long after the mainstream population have forgotten about them.

Yes. That's the key ingredient I was hunting for. Thank you.

It's what distinguishes BattleStar Galatica from say Time Tunnel or Quantum Leap or Now & Again.

It's also how cult films are defined. Rocky Horror Picture Show is an example - a movie that bombed, but was brought alive by its cult fans.
Tremors - same deal. Happens a lot with horror films. The Evil Dead - by Sam Rami - are cult films. So is Donnie Darko.

Wizard of OZ which also bombed when it first came out - is NOT cult, because it became part of pop culture.

Firefly is a cult series. Serenity a cult film.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer cult film and series.

Star Wars? not so much. Nor is for that matter Star Trek any longer. Star Trek was cult however back in the 70's and 60's.

I think that's a crucial part of the definition.