The TV Cult Meme Revisited and Quibbled Over by a TV slut

[shadowkat]

Regarding that meme on TV Guide's top 30 Cult TV Shows? Have a few quibbles regarding their definition of cult, which reminds me of a lengthy lunch debate I had with a guy I dated a few years back at Evil Company. He said that only fantasy and sci-fi shows were *cult*. I said, no, a sci-fi show might not be cult. X-Files for example had jumped out of cult status. Cult - I informed him - was a tv series, film or book that was not liked by the *mainstream* or not a *best-seller* - it had a specific niche or fringe audience. People adored it, but they didn't talk about it in public and it wasn't something you saw in the Neilson ratings. It's the sort of thing - that someone will hesistantly admit to in an elevator and you'll stop and say cool! ME too!

In short - a show like The Sopranos was NOT cult. While Buffy the Vampire Slayer definitely was. Cult was not the same as *excellent* or *horrid* - what it meant was a show that may or may not be loved by critics, was often dismissed, and never taken seriously by the powers that be - the best seller lists, Nielsen's, EW's and mainstream media - and you have to hunt on your tv dial - because it appears at weird times, jumps channels, and well is hard to find. CULT is a show or book or film you discover through your friends. Not the media. It's not advertised. It's not well marketed. Until after we've discovered it - long after. Yet, at the same time, CULT is also something that has a certain quality or lasting resonance. Something that scholars will obsess over. CULT is an artwork people OBSESS over. Not easily dismissed by its fans.

Cult often has a weird title. Like The Rocky Horror Picture Show or Buffy the Vampire Slayer. It's just left of center. Off the beaten track. Cult never gets awards except from fringe groups. And often has obsessive fans who go to conventions to celebrate it or late night viewings or who collect everything associated with it. They debate it vehemently but don't tell co-workers.

Course many people disagree with my definition. The guy I dated did. We ended up calling a stalemate. (Or he just shut-up and let me win.)

Shows that I don't believe can be cult because they are celebrated by the mainstream and consider pop= Lost, Heroes, Six Feet Under, Sopranoes, Seinfield, MASH, Hill Street Blues, Ugly Betty, Grey's Anatomy, Star Wars (although it does have weird obsessive fans, but they aren't quite the same as cult fans) and Harry Potter. (Note the difference - Pop = popular items. CULT = those things that live under the wire.)

Here's my list of CULT TV shows that I know about, in no particular order:

1. Buffy the Vampire Slayer
2. Star Trek (the original one)
3. Voyager
4. Deep Space Nine
5. Angel
6. Dark Angel
7. American Gothic
8. Highlander
9. Xenia
10. Space Above and Beyond
11. Firefly
12. Wonderfalls
13. Dead Like Me
14. Doctor Who
15. BattleStar Galatica2
16. Jericho
17. HEx
18. Forever Knight
19. Supernatural
20. Star Gate
21. Farscape
22. Mystery Theater 2000
23. Veronica Mars
24. Strangers with Candy
25. Rosewell
26. BlackAdder
27. Monty Python
28. Arrested Development
29. Profit
30. H&R PuffnStuff
31. Twin Peaks...which jumped sort of to the mainstream
32. Smallville
33. Tru Calling

Cult's the shows that you worry about getting renewed. That you have to hunt down. And you keep trying to get people to like, or you keep to yourself. They aren't water cooler chatter.

They are things like Rocky Horror Picture Show, Tremors...buried at the bottom of the video store. Not in wide release. On late at night. OR out of print.

What do you think?

Agree? Disagree?

Comments

[dlgood.livejournal.com]

And these definitions can be fluid.

X-Files, to me, started off as a cult show. It eventually transcended "cult" status. And by the end, had probably sunk back off the radar into cult status again.

"Cult" was Seinfeld in the first two seasons, when it bounced around, seemed like it was never on, and no one liked it. "Not Cult" is Seinfeld once it became one of the most widely celebrated shows on TV.

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

I do agree... but it is always a debate:
I shouldn't add 'Heroes', but then 'Lost' shouldn't be on the list either.
Was 'X-Files' that big? I mean what were it's Nelson numbers actually? Because although everyone we know online watched it, I'm not sure it was that widely watched across the board.
Star Trek (original) was definitely cult
Star Trek: the Next Generation was probably main stream...
but then I think Deep Space 9 & Voyager both went back to cult status.

Many shows have still not been discovered, and maybe never will be, by most people:
Wonderfalls
Dead Like Me

I don't think 'Simpsons' belongs on that list, I can't think of a person I know who hasn't seen it several times, and does it have a cult following?

luckily I find this kind of discussion endlessly interesting (LOL)

[wenchsenior.livejournal.com]

What about a show like "Slings and Arrows"? I think it has won a number of Canadian awards, but nobody in the states knows about it. It shows on the Sundance Channel, I've heard.

Great show, btw.

Or what about "MI5/Spooks"? It's a monster hit in Britain, but very cult-y in the U.S., I'd say.

[cjlasky.livejournal.com]

Agree that X-Files, LOST and HEROES aren't really cult shows; they're fantasy/sci-fi shows that happened to catch on with the general public. To me, cult shows are:

1) Shows with a certain quirkiness about them that virtually guarantees they'll be limited to a small audience. MST3000 could never break out big, because I can't see the majority of Americans clamoring to watch a guy and his robots snark on bad movies. BUFFY? How many people could never get past the name?

2) Shows before their time. X-Files hit the mainstream because America was in just the right mood for Chris Carter's paranoid ramblings. He's never had another success. Comedies like Freaks and Geeks and Undeclared should have been smashes, but Judd Apatow's brand of comedy just didn't catch on in the 1990s and early 00s. But Apatow has just scored with two $100 million big screen comedies (40 Year-Old Virgin and Knocked Up), so his time has finally come.

3) Shows killed by network bungling. Wonderfalls. Firefly. Shows that desperately needed some nurturing, but received the axe. I'm looking forward to/dreading Bryan Fuller's Pushing Daisies, because I can see another quick and bloody death ahead.

P.S. I think Star Trek is now thoroughly mainstream and has outgrown its original cult status.