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shadowkatLovely lovey day today. 74 degrees. Walked from church to the promenade for a lunch of Icelandic Ginger and Orange yogurt, chocolat mousse, and an apple - (yes, I'm wildly eccentric or so I'm told. Sisinlaw said this to Momster, who laughing replied the whole family is eccentric. I find her comment a bit amusing - considering Sis-in-law named her kid after at tree and an elephant and a butterfly, got married in a swimming pool by a minister of the church of craft and bought the equivalent of a tree house to live in...plus owns two Siberian show cats that are the same size as a full grown racoon. I'm guessing they scare most dogs. Eccentric is in the eye of the beholder.)
Church brought up some interesting bits..and in a wonderful way allowed me to make peace with the sturm and drang of my week. There was this lovely song about how Love leads the Way, if you can't sing like angels, or speak in front of thousands, then give with all your heart and love as best you can. I found myself thinking about love today. It is not a selfish emotion. True love isn't. It's actually the opposite. It is about caring more about someone else. Caring about their needs. Wanting what is best for them. Putting them first. And you can't love someone until you love yourself and actually have something to give. If you are an empty well and it is all about your needs, your wants, your desires, than that is not love. Love is when people go down to Haiti and attempt to save the children. Love is what makes life worth living. It is what gives life importance and meaning. Without love? There is nothing. Hell for me is the absence of love.
Regarding the Buffy comics and my current attitude towards them - there's professional review on Comic Book Resources that sums it up rather nicely: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=user_review&id=2093.
There's also this rather insightful post/meta on Whedon's writings after Buffy, which re-affirmed something I've been thinking about for quite some time now...and hits on a topic that I discussed with friends today after church. It also clarified some of my own issues with the writer and why I admittedly have not enjoyed some of his stories (outside of the Buffy tv series) and even to a degree struggled with the subtext in everything from Toy Story to Dollhouse. He's a horror writer - and to a degree this underlines some of my own difficulties with the horror genre, which in some not all cases tends to be bleak and negative towards women. I'm hesitant to say misogynistic, because I do not think that is the case and believe the word is overused. Sexist or misanthropic is perhaps a better term.
What was discussed was creative collaborations and our societal tendency for good or ill to give the credit for the collaboration to one person. One of my friends, a dancer, mentioned how this happens a great deal in the dance community. Many dancers may choreagraph a piece, but often just one gets credit for it. I mentioned this happens in TV as well. TV series are written by numerous writers. But often just one gets all the credit. Andrew Chambliss in my opinion wrote the best episodes of Dollhouse - the most layered, the one's that did not make my skin crawl. But I doubt many people even know who he is. I do, because I paid attention to who was writing what. And on Buffy - it hits me that some of the best episodes were written by five writers. And everyone pitched in the room and everyone had a voice, including the executive producers, the network, the actors, and the director. The actors brought something, they'd often tell the writer - I'm sorry this doesn't work. Or improve a line the writer didn't think of. Stunt people did the same thing. As did the special effects workshop. And the director - who often would tell the actors to do the opposite of what the writer did.
But when you talk to most people they will stubbornly insist that Buffy was solely Joss Whedon's creation and solely his to continue. They will say he ran the show. Ignoring the fact that he had co-executive producers, who ran things when he wasn't there. Marti Noxon wrote and was on the set for the last scene of Fool for Love - she made sure the director did what she wrote. This is true of other shows as well. BSG was NOT just Ron Moore's creation. Any more than Star Trek was just Gene Roddenberry's. Star Trek fans can be as annoying about this as Buffy fans - it's not Trek if it isn't Gene Roddenberry. Same deal with BSG - it's not Battle Star Galatica - if it's not by Glen A. Larson or now Ron Moore. Which is silly. Because you are assuming they wrote everything.
The only thing that Whedon wrote without any partners is The Buffy movie. And even that had collaborators in the directors, actors, and producers. Yet, we give Whedon the credit.
It's in a way very Ayn Randian - this tendency to ignore the collaboration, to feel the individual is constrained by the group dynamic. This view that the group is hanging on the individual genuis's coat-tails. As I grow older - I see that is not true. I know for example that Tim Burton's Nightmare Before Xmas - is less Tim's than the many many art school and film school interns that slaved under him. But Tim Burton is given the credit.
And I'm not sure they do it, so much as we give it to them. We become fans of a writer - who in reality is only responsible for bits and pieces of an overall work of art. Once More With Feeling is as much if not more than actors, voice coaches, choreagoraphers, sound mixers, lighting execs, stunt coordinators, work as Whedon's - perhaps more so. Since without them, the score is well flat and not that great. They make it great. The singer makes the song.
It's the combination of the two together. It's like in the old testament Noah Story - where everyone assumes Noah built the arc by himself - but did he, or was that just the interpretation we ended up being given over time?
Church brought up some interesting bits..and in a wonderful way allowed me to make peace with the sturm and drang of my week. There was this lovely song about how Love leads the Way, if you can't sing like angels, or speak in front of thousands, then give with all your heart and love as best you can. I found myself thinking about love today. It is not a selfish emotion. True love isn't. It's actually the opposite. It is about caring more about someone else. Caring about their needs. Wanting what is best for them. Putting them first. And you can't love someone until you love yourself and actually have something to give. If you are an empty well and it is all about your needs, your wants, your desires, than that is not love. Love is when people go down to Haiti and attempt to save the children. Love is what makes life worth living. It is what gives life importance and meaning. Without love? There is nothing. Hell for me is the absence of love.
Regarding the Buffy comics and my current attitude towards them - there's professional review on Comic Book Resources that sums it up rather nicely: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=user_review&id=2093.
There's also this rather insightful post/meta on Whedon's writings after Buffy, which re-affirmed something I've been thinking about for quite some time now...and hits on a topic that I discussed with friends today after church. It also clarified some of my own issues with the writer and why I admittedly have not enjoyed some of his stories (outside of the Buffy tv series) and even to a degree struggled with the subtext in everything from Toy Story to Dollhouse. He's a horror writer - and to a degree this underlines some of my own difficulties with the horror genre, which in some not all cases tends to be bleak and negative towards women. I'm hesitant to say misogynistic, because I do not think that is the case and believe the word is overused. Sexist or misanthropic is perhaps a better term.
What was discussed was creative collaborations and our societal tendency for good or ill to give the credit for the collaboration to one person. One of my friends, a dancer, mentioned how this happens a great deal in the dance community. Many dancers may choreagraph a piece, but often just one gets credit for it. I mentioned this happens in TV as well. TV series are written by numerous writers. But often just one gets all the credit. Andrew Chambliss in my opinion wrote the best episodes of Dollhouse - the most layered, the one's that did not make my skin crawl. But I doubt many people even know who he is. I do, because I paid attention to who was writing what. And on Buffy - it hits me that some of the best episodes were written by five writers. And everyone pitched in the room and everyone had a voice, including the executive producers, the network, the actors, and the director. The actors brought something, they'd often tell the writer - I'm sorry this doesn't work. Or improve a line the writer didn't think of. Stunt people did the same thing. As did the special effects workshop. And the director - who often would tell the actors to do the opposite of what the writer did.
But when you talk to most people they will stubbornly insist that Buffy was solely Joss Whedon's creation and solely his to continue. They will say he ran the show. Ignoring the fact that he had co-executive producers, who ran things when he wasn't there. Marti Noxon wrote and was on the set for the last scene of Fool for Love - she made sure the director did what she wrote. This is true of other shows as well. BSG was NOT just Ron Moore's creation. Any more than Star Trek was just Gene Roddenberry's. Star Trek fans can be as annoying about this as Buffy fans - it's not Trek if it isn't Gene Roddenberry. Same deal with BSG - it's not Battle Star Galatica - if it's not by Glen A. Larson or now Ron Moore. Which is silly. Because you are assuming they wrote everything.
The only thing that Whedon wrote without any partners is The Buffy movie. And even that had collaborators in the directors, actors, and producers. Yet, we give Whedon the credit.
It's in a way very Ayn Randian - this tendency to ignore the collaboration, to feel the individual is constrained by the group dynamic. This view that the group is hanging on the individual genuis's coat-tails. As I grow older - I see that is not true. I know for example that Tim Burton's Nightmare Before Xmas - is less Tim's than the many many art school and film school interns that slaved under him. But Tim Burton is given the credit.
And I'm not sure they do it, so much as we give it to them. We become fans of a writer - who in reality is only responsible for bits and pieces of an overall work of art. Once More With Feeling is as much if not more than actors, voice coaches, choreagoraphers, sound mixers, lighting execs, stunt coordinators, work as Whedon's - perhaps more so. Since without them, the score is well flat and not that great. They make it great. The singer makes the song.
It's the combination of the two together. It's like in the old testament Noah Story - where everyone assumes Noah built the arc by himself - but did he, or was that just the interpretation we ended up being given over time?
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no subject
Date: 2010-04-12 12:32 am (UTC)That's not to say that he's not better or worse depending on what staff he has working for him. That's where he gets input and push back and creative possibilities. That does make a big difference. But he's still the guy doing the hiring and the deciding. His relationship to the work is different from that of anyone else.
For me, the real problem with Whedon is not so much writing staff or lack thereof. I think it's that he's grown an ego, and is overconfident. What's hurting the recent works is a cavalier attitude towards plotting and especially the details of world-building. Also, while I like the ideas that he's exploring, I'm getting the feeling that he's said what he has to say. Which is totally usual. Not many rock bands have anything to say after their second or third album either.
My two cents. I remain on the fence about the comics. He might pull it off, and if he does, I still want a seat in the front row.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-12 09:25 pm (UTC)I think this is true. I think the ego is also related to the way he's playing with the ships right now. After some things on BtVS I think he's gotten more rigid in his "Give the audience what they need, not what they want" credo, and is as a result spending actually decreasing amounts of time establishing why you should care about characters before he kills them. I acutally think that all the deaths in BtVS, including "Chosen," are dramatically necessary and earned, and I feel the same way about Serenity and early Angel. And taken individually I don't mind most of the deaths afterwards, but there's definitely a diminishing-returns there so much so that I think it seems like Whedon himself is starting to be less impacted by it. (SOME of this works with the Buffy characters growing up, in season eight, but not all.)
In some respects, I also think he never quite got over being burned by Firefly, which, while not without its flaws, seems to me to be the show that was MOST a result of Joss' own interests and ambitions and passions rather than the stars happening to align. "Serenity" the episode is probably one of the most intricately-crafted things he's ever done, setting up dozens of stories very much seamlessly, well plotted if you ignore the dumb space logic (which itself doesn't even show up that much in the episode), tremendous attention to detail. I know there are lots of complaints that people have made about Firefly's worldbuilding, and there are some problems with, e.g., the Companions guild, and the racial issues (um, where are the Asians?) but I feel like the world was for the most part extremely well fleshed out and easy to understand, especially for something which wasn't (like BtVS et al.) just "our world + demons."
And then after this was junked by the network and the show was cancelled, most of what Whedon worked on became more cynical and reflexive, stories-about-stories, usually ending with apocalypses. W&H in season five of AtS was the WB, with Hamilton was brought in to represent the network suits, Dr. Horrible was about the strike, Dollhouse was about television except when it didn't quite know what it wanted to be. I actually really like all of these things (and oh for a world in which Dollhouse could have been allowed to develop without the axe above its head constantly forcing rapid renegotiations of the premise), but they do tread similar ground a little bit more than his earlier stuff does. And he's spending a lot less time on the details than he used to. This isn't really a problem in Dr. Horrible but it certainly hurt Dollhouse and is really hurting the comics.
It isn't just Firefly, natch--I think Goners and Wonder Woman, plus Dollhouse, have probably worn him down too. Minear, similarly, has lost a dozen shows over the past few years, but he's always seemed as angry as he is.
no subject
Date: 2010-04-13 04:33 pm (UTC)Was discussing the comics and whedon with a friend last night...and the friend made an interesting comment - they stated that it sounded like there was a lot of rage being expressed through the comics. Buffy was in a way - Whedon's only true success. Angel a close second - but still just a spin-off from Buffy.
Both were created with David Greenwalt. They were his first projects or first creations, and like a first novel...he may well have mixed feelings regarding them.
Like most writers he wanted to move on - and Firefly was the world he created sans Greenwalt, sans the network. He picked his own team - the network didn't.
He picked the cast or was more front and center. It was in some respects more his than Buffy was, and the story he was the most invested in. It explored a broader theme - and explored ideas that were close to his heart.
It got stomped on - partly by the fans (of Buffy), partly by the network, and in part because the television medium was changing. And networks were scrambling to stay on top of costs as well as investing a lot in ratings to garner ad dollars.
Plus, Whedon is in his forties and speaking from experience? Hello, mid-life crisis. If you haven't been as successful as you wished, if you've had a string of failed projects...you struggle a bit with bitterness. And he's had nothing but failed projects since Buffy ended in 03. Buffy was the only series he did that was NOT cancelled by the network. That Whedon chose to end on his own. It's also the only series outside of Angel - that people keep bugging him about doing movies on, or comics. The Firefly fandom is relatively small.
Add to this - we don't know what is happening in someone else's life. Nor how they perceive things. Nor their experience. We can merely interpret. And often our attempts at interpretation - if it is their art or the reasons behind it - can feel akin to interpreting a Rorschach drawing or a Jackson Pollack painting.
Sure a cigar is often just a cigar...but, when it comes to a Rorschach drawing - ink on paper, it's harder to say - is this just a splatter of ink? Is it an angry representation of twisted love? Is it the face of Jesus? Or is it two butterflies kissing?
Sorry, a meta I'm writing in my head on Rorschach drawings, buffy comic interpretations and pattern analysis is slipping in there. ;-)
no subject
Date: 2010-04-13 08:58 pm (UTC)I do find it's funny that Whedon has had nothing but failed projects since 03--because in several critical senses he is still a success, still a big name, still has a devoted fanbase and pleases a lot of people. But in the Hollywood bottom-line sense, he's failed: his shows get cancelled, Goners and Wonder Woman don't get made and Serenity is generally well-reviewed by critics and adored by fans but flops. The most successful thing he has done in a way, relative to expectations set out for it, is Dr. Horrible--which went far beyond what could be expected of an internet supervillain musical. And he's having success with comics, to a degree. But that probably won't help when he's being told repeatedly he can't succeed in the (much larger arenas) of television and film.
The Rorshach drawings are a great symbol for all this--#34 even opens with something like one.