Fandom Shipper Questions

[shadowkat]

Have some questions for shippers? (I'm trying not to answer or judge here - because I want to understand perspectives that are different from my own. I'm not sure I'm really a shipper, because while I care about relationships, I care about story more. Happily Ever After is not an ending I want or crave really...although it would be nice on occasion, since tragic endings get rather old.)

Which comes first and foremost or is the most important to you: Ship or Story? Characters Emotional Arc or Ship?

*Do you read a book series or watch a tv show/series solely for the romantic relationship ignoring the rest?
* Or is the "ship" just icing, making the show that much more tasty?
* Or is the characters arcs and their story/overall plot what is important? (ie. even if your favorite "ship" never comes to pass or doesn't work out - that's fine as long as it makes sense to the character's arc and is interesting and crunchy? The story comes before the ship?)

This question is the result of latest flirtation with a fan spoiler board for a urban fantasy novel - where I noticed the vast majority of posters were saying - while the book is good, I'm frustrated because I'm not sure about my ship? Or I'm so happy - my ship may happen! Or I threw the book across the room because it killed my ship? Or my dream is for the character to have her moonlight wedding...with T or I or A? The book in question is NOT a romance novel. So this begs the question - is a happily ever after romance necessary?

Is the ship the reason you are watching or reading? OR is it secondary? Or does it depend on the story? ie. For House and Sherlock - you only watch for House/Wilson or Sherlock/Watson - ignoring everything else. Or for Buffy, you only watched for Buffy/Angel or Buffy/Spike? Yet for another show, say BSG, you didn't ship at all and watched for the entire story?

And to what degree has shipping influenced your fanfic/meta writing? Or for that matter, your abhorrence of shipping influenced your writing, involvement in fandom, and reactions to it?
If Whedon, for example, had killed Spike off in the comics and had Buffy and Angel become a full-time heroic couple - would that have influenced how you viewed the comics? Or what if it was the opposite, if Angel died or was exiled, and Buffy and Spike rode off into the proverbial moonlight (sunlight is a bit hard on vampires)? How would you view say Doctor Who - if Ten had fallen in love with Martha Jones instead of Rose Tyler? And how does this influence your reactions to other's in fandom - do you find shipping a positive or negative or a bit of both kind of thing?

Comments

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

Well I have always been one to follow the story, and I'm really open to whatever story the creators/writers want to tell me....
but I have to confess that I'm usually anti-ship....
I wasn't in favor of Buffy & Angel being together (but I never worried that they would end up together, I always thought it was supposed to be the tragic hopeless love that had no chance)
but I also wasn't in favor of Buffy & Riley (he was being drugged & manipulated by the people whose orders he took... and then in S5 he was hanging around doing nothing but living vicariously through Buffy, bad to worse IMO)
AND I wasn't in favor of the Buffy/Spike ship except in the way it made Spike's character grow (I would never want Buffy to throw her future away on a dead thing no matter how immortal he may be... the future belongs to the living).

I also disliked the Doctor with Rose, and I thought that Martha needed to get over it (I was very glad that they did allow her to get over it and move on). He is an alien who for decades seemed to treat humans as pets, I cannot get into thinking of him as a reasonable love interest.

OTOH I shipped Kaylee and Simon (but I did think that their relationship would break down when they got married and he went back into medicine, because she would hurt him socially...). Actually I didn't ship them that hard, but I was glad they got together in 'Serenity'.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Finally, a perspective that is a bit different from mine. Thank you!!!

Oddly your anti-ship reasons are the same reasons I've read on fan discussion boards for ships. This need/desire for the characters to live happy lives or have a happily ever after.

To clarify?

Do you put the character's happily ever after over the story?
(example - RTD put Rose with the clone/human version of Doctor Who 10 - does that bother you because it means Rose can't be happy with the Doctor? Or say, Whedon kills off Tara or WASH - taking away Willow/Zoe's true love, does that bother you because Willow/Zoe can't be happy?)

Or do you care more about the story, and the character's having a "happy ending" doesn't matter?

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

See I don't believe in happy endings for anyone at all ever... seriously (didn't happen for me, who do you know who got any kind of happily ever after?). Of course I don't believe in 'endings' except death... which doesn't quality as happy really, does it?

So what I'm saying is: I think if the story teller pretends they've given us a happy ending, then I think the story teller is a liar (or stupid).

I have no problem with killing characters because I've lost so many people my own self that it just makes sense that my protagonist will suffer loses too.... Although I do think there is something a little cheap and convenient about getting Tara and Willow back together for one final night before killing Tara off.

Wash being killed so suddenly was way more real and intense, for me.... After he died I seriously thought a lot of my favorite characters might end up dying, it really made the rest of the movie a nail bitter.

One thing that I really want to say is that I'm not favor of my heroine being such a ninny that she will blindly pursue an obviously doomed love, and I think it is even worse if she wastes the rest of her life mooning over a past love... I think that people should keep moving forward (like sharks).

I didn't hate Rose ending up with fake Doctor 10/human hybrid (it was weird and a little too convenient, but it was interesting...), however I did wonder if Rose really did settle for him as second best. But then most of the married women I know settled, to some extent or another.

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

BTW I didn't mean that to sound angry and discontented (if it came off that way)...
I do think people can be happy, if they can be content with their life... I'm just saying that I don't think that a relationship (any relationship) is what makes you happy. You are either someone who learns to have inner contentment or you aren't, the relationships don't fix anything.

And even the happiest most peaceful person must have a future full of ups and downs, nobody gets a perfectly 'happy ending'....

so I hope that explains my position better... lol

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

BTW I didn't mean that to sound angry and discontented (if it came off that way)...

Not at all.

Thanks for the clarification, because...hmmm, I think I misinterpreted your first post. I thought you were for happy endings above the story. Turns out to be the exact opposite.
(My take is somewhat similar - in that the happy ending must be earned, and it doesn't necessarily need to be a romantic one to be happy. For me, story first and foremost. Also the problem with happily ever after is well, life doesn't end quite like that. It's not that it's happy, it's just not the romantic fairy tale ending = ie. happily ever after.)

Example of what I'm discussing here - a while back taliamamma told me that fans of Dorothy Dunnett's Chronicles of Lymond - were furious with Dunnett and many threw the book across the room and stopped reading because they thought she'd killed off her lead character just before he was able to fall into the arms of his beloved and be "happy". (This perplexed me - for two reasons, one - all they had to do was turn the page and they'd have learned that he didn't die and it was a mislead. I mean there was at least five - ten pages left in the book. And two - even if she did? So what. Doesn't make the story any less satisfying, tragic yes, but the weight is still there.)

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

I must not have been explaining myself very well, because what I meant was that I'm always story first, but I end up despising the story (and storyteller) if the romance (and the lame happy ending) ends up being the be all and end all (like in Twilight).

So I'm never ship/happy ending first.... I expect a lot more than that if I'm going to enjoy the story.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Thanks.

I agree. A lot of romance novelists fall into the trap of doing the fairy tale happily ever after - but it's not earned, so falls flat or leaves an odd after-taste. (TWilight is a romance, so falls into that trap.)

Endings are VERY hard to do well. The best are somewhat open-ended, yet satisfying at the same time.

[norwie2010.livejournal.com]

Endings are VERY hard to do well. The best are somewhat open-ended, yet satisfying at the same time.

Like "Chosen"...