Did Xander tell Angel about the AR scene (which had occurred in Seeing Red)?

[shadowkat]

This came up as a question in a post by shapinglight in regards to a fic she was writing. But I got curious...so a poll:

Do you think Xander told Angel about the AR scene in Seeing Red? (Assuming of course, Xander interacted with Angel after Chosen. Because honestly that's the only time I think he could have told him.)

Note: "The Question should read: Do you think Xander told Angel about Spike's attempted rape or AR of Buffy? (Obviously he couldn't have done it in Seeing Red - Angel was tied up with Holtz and Connor at the time.)

[Poll #1815236]

Comments

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Agree on the point that if Xander had run into Angel in Two to Go or in Seeing Red - after it happened - that he'd have told him. That's around the time he told Dawn.

But I can't see that happening either in canon or not. There was no reason for Angel to be in Sunnydale in S6, besides the fact that he had his hands full in LA, Buffy and Angel were clearly not in contact after their regrettable reunion that ended in a fried food binge. Angel had also moved on to Cordy and Connor. It would have to go completely AU - for that to happen. Logistically? Impossible.

[rahirah]

I kinda took the original question over at Shapinglight's as a hypothetical - not so much DID Xander tell as would Xander have told had the opportunity arisen at the time. A lot of people seem to be saying that no, Xander would never have told under any circumstances 'cause he's just too noble and upstanding a guy. Which doesn't quite work for me in that timeframe - S6 was Xander at his most assholish.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

That's how I understood the question too. And I agree with you that he would tell if the circumstances were right.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

No, that's not the impression I got. As dlgood states quite well below - this is just NOT a topic men tend to discuss with each other and Angel and Xander definitely wouldn't. Angelus might. Parker? Possibly - he certainly did with Riley. But generally? No.

Keep in mind the relationship between Angel and Xander...it would be like Xander telling Warren or Andrew. I don't think he'd have told Riley, for that matter.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

And it's notable that the vast majority of men responding, regardless of their feelings towards Xander - say, uh, no. Again men aren't comfortable discussing rape for obvious reasons.

[rahirah]

I don't see it as Xander having a chat with a buddy. If Angel had been around during the time when I can see Xander being in the mood to tell (which he wasn't) and if Xander had told, I think it would have been purely out of a desire for revenge against Spike, not because he wanted a heart-to-heart with Angel. Realistic or not, there are plenty of pop culture tropes about men ganging up to Avenge The Honor Of Their Wimmin, and I think it would fall into that area, if it had happened, which I don't think it did. Not that I think Buffy's honor needs avenging, and if it does, she can do it herself.

I think this is a totally different hypothetical situation from Spike and Angel discussing the AR - I agree that it's very unlikely that Spike would ever bring that up. (Though I would not have expected Spike to discuss his mother's death with anyone, either, and yet he blurted it out in public to Wesley.)

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I think it would have been purely out of a desire for revenge against Spike, not because he wanted a heart-to-heart with Angel. Realistic or not, there are plenty of pop culture tropes about men ganging up to Avenge The Honor Of Their Wimmin, and I think it would fall into that area, if it had happened,

Riley, yes. Angel, no. This analysis only works if you view Xander as perceiving Angel at that stage as being Buffy's boyfriend or for that matter revenging Buffy's honor. I don't think Xander sees Angel in that way. If anything, he sees Angel as a problem, someone to revenge Buffy against.

If this was S3 or S4? Maybe. But doubtful. Xander really doesn't look at Angel the way you do. He sees Angel as the worse than Spike. Also, I don't think he sees Angel as capable of taking Spike out per se. Remember Spike helped them take out Angel in S2.

If Xander were to tell anyone at that stage it would have been Giles.
And he didn't. Partly because Willow was a far bigger problem, and let's face it - Spike had skedaddled. Also Xander - if you'll remember didn't anyone to take out Spike. Could only fight Buffy and vampires, Xander could stake Spike with little problem - since Spike had a chip which made it impossible for Spike to attack Xander.

So why would Xander tell Angel? Xander sees Angel as an evil vampire.
He wouldn't see Angel as helping him, from Xander's perspective, Angel might help Spike.

I'm sorry, Xander just did not have that sort of relationship with Angel. He hated Angel more than he hated Spike. And I seriously doubt he saw Angel as a major threat to Spike - Spike had after all fought off some serious foes. And Buffy stopped Xander from going after Spike himself.

It still doesn't work. It's not because I think Xander's a great guy necessarily, I just don't think Xander views Angel the way you do.
Riley? Yes, he'd have done that with Riley. Maybe. But the mere fact he doesn't do it with Giles, suggests otherwise.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Oh - I should add...remember the last time Xander asked Angel to help him with Spike? I'm betting Xander does. It was in School Hard, and Angel used Xander as bait...if I were Xander I would not tell Angel a damn thing. I wouldn't frigging trust Angel.